[SimeyTheLimey]

I just got off the phone with Formac. I ordered a 20" screen from them, but I am wondering if I should cancel the order. What do you think?

I placed the order on Thursday. Their web site says they ship in 24 - 48 hours. By Monday morning it still hadn't been shipped, so I called customer service. I was told it would ship by the end of the day.

It still hasn't been shipped, so I called again. Now I am told that they are "so busy" that they can't promise to ship it by any particular time. I asked them to at least upgrade the shipping when they do ship it, and they refused. I asked to speak to management and I was told that nobody was available. They took my number and are supposed to get back to me.

I can wait a few extra days, it won't kill me and the screen seems nice and I do think it would be better than the ADC for my purposes. But I am appalled at their customer service. It makes me wonder what they would be like if anything goes wrong. How could they be busy if this is their attitude?

What do you think? Should I just cancel?

If they don't get back to you in one business day, and it still hasn't shipped, cancel the order.

It's one thing to be busy, but they really should have told you that the first time you called instead of making up a date, and the manager should call you back and apologize for the delay.

[effgee]

Formac, huh?

I don't own any of their products so I don't have any personal experiences to contribute.

But after reading these stories on macintouch, I'm also quite certain that I would never buy anything from them - not ever. Not a monitor, not a Formac Studio - not even a cable, for that matter.

I'm quite certain that there used to be more current user reports on macintouch as well but alas, I can't seem to find them.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by effgee:
Formac, huh?

I don't own any of their products so I don't have any personal experiences to contribute.

But after reading these stories on macintouch, I'm also quite certain that I would never buy anything from them - not ever. Not a monitor, not a Formac Studio - not even a cable, for that matter.

I'm quite certain that there used to be more current user reports on macintouch as well but alas, I can't seem to find them.

That's highly disturbing. I read elsewhere (and here on the boards) that their problems in the past had been resolved after the buyout. But now I am beginning to wonder . . .

[effgee]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
That's highly disturbing. I read elsewhere (and here on the boards) that their problems in the past had been resolved after the buyout. But now I am beginning to wonder . . .

I just don't know - I read the stories regarding this "management buyout" as well. It always sounded fishy to me - and after I reading about your experience, I get the feeling that my concerns were justified.

Remember, you aren't even dealing with customer support - these are the guys in sales (!!!) who are supposed to generate revenue for their company.

Too busy??



What would lead you to believe they would handle a support request of yours any more efficient if they aren't even capable of managing the distribution of new products?



Another thing - I know many people are prefectly happy ordering their TFTs online - so I'm probably part of a minority here but I would never do that. I would want to see the very monitor that is going to be sitting on my desk in person before putting down some serious $$$ for it. Especially so I can make 100% sure it doesn't have a single dead pixel - not one - before having paid for it. To have that peace of mind, I'll gladly pay $50 or a $100 extra - but that's just me ...

[TETENAL]

Originally posted by effgee:
Another thing - I know many people are prefectly happy ordering their TFTs online - so I'm probably part of a minority here but I would never do that. I would want to see the very monitor that is going to be sitting on my desk in person before putting down some serious $$$ for it. Especially so I can make 100% sure it doesn't have a single dead pixel - not one - before having paid for it. To have that peace of mind, I'll gladly pay $50 or a $100 extra - but that's just me ...

Formac offers a zero-dead-pixel guarantee. As far as I know they are the only company that do this, so if you want to pay $99 extra to be sure you have no dead pixels, Formac is the only option you have.

[effgee]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
Formac offers a zero-dead-pixel guarantee. As far as I know they are the only company that do this, so if you want to pay $99 extra to be sure you have no dead pixels, Formac is the only option you have.

(not my story - from macintouch.com)
John Baughman
"My Formac Gallery 1740 digital display burst into flames three days ago. If I had not been at home it may have been a disaster. Since the display is still under warranty I have attempted to contact Formac to arrange for repairs or replacement under warranty. I have spent the last three days trying to contact Formac Electronics, the US division based in Berkeley, CA. They do not answer calls to either of the two phone numbers they publish. They do not respond to any email inquiries. They have not responded to material I sent them by fax. Their web site is still up. I have even emailed the main headquarters in Germany without response. ..."

You mean "zero dead pixels" or "zero pixels"?






Seriously though - they could garantee me the sum of $100,000 for every pixel that died within the first 500 years of me owning the thing and I still wouldn't buy it. What good is a "zero dead pixel" policy if their customer service will (might?) shaft you if you ever want to send the damn thing back?

And, btw, Formac is not the only company to offer such a warranty, there was a recent report on Heise about another company doing the same thing - I forgot the name, though.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by effgee:
I just don't know - I read the stories regarding this "management buyout" as well. It always sounded fishy to me - and after I reading about your experience, I get the feeling that my concerns were justified.

Remember, you aren't even dealing with customer support - these are the guys in sales (!!!) who are supposed to generate revenue for their company.

Too busy??



What would lead you to believe they would handle a support request of yours any more efficient if they aren't even capable of managing the distribution of new products?



Another thing - I know many people are prefectly happy ordering their TFTs online - so I'm probably part of a minority here but I would never do that. I would want to see the very monitor that is going to be sitting on my desk in person before putting down some serious $$$ for it. Especially so I can make 100% sure it doesn't have a single dead pixel - not one - before having paid for it. To have that peace of mind, I'll gladly pay $50 or a $100 extra - but that's just me ...

I waited an hour and a half -- no phone call. So I called back.

First of all, the salesman (the same one) had to be reminded who I was. How many complaints like this does he have?

Then once I filled him in I was told that the management had "reviewed my case" and that they might be able to ship it today (but no promises). Considering I asked then to call me, and considering that once again, nobody from management would speak to me, I wasn't very impressed.

So I cancelled the order, and they just sent me the confirmation. I guess I will buy the Apple 20" after all.

[effgee]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
Formac offers a zero-dead-pixel guarantee. ...

Whoa!!

You swindle ...

from formac's site
"... Mit einer max. Pixelausfallrate von 2defekten Pixeln, arbeiten Sie garantiert ungest�rt. ..."

Granted, two pixels is still pretty generous - as long as their not right in the center of the display - and if you've ever seen a dead red pixel you'll know that one is 5 too many.



Btw, no mention of this warranty on their US product page that I could see.

[Kenneth]

I never had a single problem with Formac customer service. I used to have the Formac Studio DV/TV a couple years ago and the audio didn't work that well. I called them, got the RMA#, and sent it back.

Guess Formac has changed.

[effgee]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
... So I cancelled the order, and they just sent me the confirmation. I guess I will buy the Apple 20" after all.

Now you only need to make sure you check the Apple discussion site for problems with the 20" display before plonking down your hard earned cash.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by effgee:


Now you only need to make sure you check the Apple discussion site for problems with the 20" display before plonking down your hard earned cash.

Yes, really.

Actually, I have a question. I talked to the Apple store the other day, and they told me I would have to buy an ADC-->DVI adaptor and update the firmware to use the 20" with my Quicksilver 2002. I was a little surprised by that. Does that sound right?

[effgee]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Yes, really.

Actually, I have a question. I talked to the Apple store the other day, and they told me I would have to buy an ADC-->DVI adaptor and update the firmware to use the 20" with my Quicksilver 2002. I was a little surprised by that. Does that sound right?

which graphics card?

[TETENAL]

Originally posted by effgee:
Whoa!!

You swindle ...

Simey is American, so whatever you quote from the German web page is not relevant for him.

http://www.formac.com/p_bin/?cid=sol...allery2010_buy

Zero dead pixel guarantee
Upgrade your standard pixel policy for $99. Read more about the terms and conditions here.

Reading more carefully through the terms of their zero dead pixel guarantee reveals that you actually have to accept two dead pixels. It's Formac that swindles, not me. I was just naively deceived.

So then I give up and agree, Formac sucks.

[E's Lil Theorem]

Originally posted by effgee:
...
I would want to see the very monitor that is going to be sitting on my desk in person before putting down some serious $$$ for it. Especially so I can make 100% sure it doesn't have a single dead pixel - not one - before having paid for it. To have that peace of mind, I'll gladly pay $50 or a $100 extra - but that's just me ...

That's a fine idea, but I don't know of any store around here that would let me take the monitor out of the box and provide me with a computer to hook it up to so I can check it out. Maybe, maybe Costco, but I've never tried it.

[TETENAL]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Actually, I have a question. I talked to the Apple store the other day, and they told me I would have to buy an ADC-->DVI adaptor and update the firmware to use the 20" with my Quicksilver 2002. I was a little surprised by that. Does that sound right?

The 20" cinema display doesn't have ADC, so that may be right. The display is really gorgeous, so if you can run it, I can recommend it.
It can display two ISA A4 pages next to each other, but it's slightly not high enough to display the full height of them. If that would be important to you the 23" display can probably do that and also have room on the right for a palette if you have two full pages open next to each other.

[effgee]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
... Reading more carefully through the terms of their zero dead pixel guarantee reveals that you actually have to accept two dead pixels. It's Formac that swindles, not me. I was just naively deceived. ...

You know I was kidding, right?

They're actually not swindling, they're fscking lying ... "0 = 2"? And that for an extra $99? WTF?

Also, I don't think it's overly naive of you assume that "0 = 0" and not "0 = 2". That's fraudulent (as in: my perception - not legally since they're probably using the "*" right next to the big tag line), nothing else.

[Link]

Okay, let's just say this real quick.. it's kinda like an I Told You So�, but not quite in that I didn't tell you..

BUT it IS posted ALL OVER THE DARN INTARWEBS! Formac service SUCKS.. oh yeah, if you ever thought hearing from Greg at Apple how he wasn't going to do things your way if there was a snowstorm in hell was bad, Formac won't bother telling you, you're just screwed.

Why of all the brands though, would you buy formac? There's plenty of competing products -- admittedly their low dead pixel guarantee sounds great, but granted their track record, who cares if they 'promise', not like they'll follow through.

Sorry buddy, I aint standing behind this one with a 10 foot pole.

[effgee]

Originally posted by E's Lil Theorem:
That's a fine idea, but I don't know of any store around here that would let me take the monitor out of the box and provide me with a computer to hook it up to so I can check it out. Maybe, maybe Costco, but I've never tried it.

Well, I haven't bought anything TFT related in the US so I can't comment on that. Here in Krautland I've bought two laptops (one PC, one Powerbook) and a total of three TFTs - only once was I told that I couldn't test the monitor before buying it.

So I told the sales guy to take the monitor and stick it where the sun doesn't shine, left and bought the same model at another store.

[TETENAL]

[OT]
effgee, wenn du in Deutschland privat bestellst kannst du jedes Display innerhalb 14 Tagen ohne Angabe von Gr�nden wieder zur�ckschicken nach Fernabsatzgesetz (assig dem H�ndler gegen�ber, aber wenn man ein Apple Display kauft, das 20% teurer ist als die Konkurrenz, ist das schlechte Gewissen klein). Du hast also kein Risiko wegen defekten Pixeln. Wenn du gesch�ftlich bestellst musst du allerdings mit dem Risiko leben.
[/OT]

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by effgee:
which graphics card?

I don't know for sure. I think it is the NVIDIA GeForce4 MX, but I am not sure. OSX says it is by ATI and it has 32mb memory.

According to this Apple website, I either have a RADEON 7500, NVIDIA GeForce4 MX, or an NVIDIA GeForce4 Titanium. I believe the specs match the GeForce4 MX, if Apple is right.

I probably got whichever was the basic one when I bought my computer (a Quicksilver 2002 G4 800).

[effgee]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I don't know for sure. ...

According to everymac.com and assuming you have a stock (single processor) 2002 QS, there should be a Radeon 7500 inside your Mac which should have an ADC as well as a VGA port in the back (you should check to be sure before buying a display, though).

Since the Apple displays don't seem to support VGA, it looks like the guy at the Apple store was correct - you're going to need an adapter. At $29, I don't think that's a big deal, though.

Info: Apple displays, tech specs, ADC-DVI adapter

Keep in mind though, that a Radeon 7500 is at the very bottom of the system requirements list - so things might not be as speedy as you would like them to be.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by effgee:
According to everymac.com and assuming you have a stock (single processor) 2002 QS, there should be a Radeon 7500 inside your Mac which should have an ADC as well as a VGA port in the back (you should check to be sure before buying a display, though).

Since the Apple displays don't seem to support VGA, it looks like the guy at the Apple store was correct - you're going to need an adapter. At $29, I don't think that's a big deal, though.

Info: Apple displays, tech specs, ADC-DVI adapter

Keep in mind though, that a Radeon 7500 is at the very bottom of the system requirements list - so things might not be as speedy as you would like them to be.

OK, thanks very much. What about this firmware update? (and how do I do it?)

[Link]

I thought all the 2002 QSes had a DVI port on the back.. you know this is pretty damn easy to tell.. if the port next to the ADC port has a plus-shaped plug on it.. not to mention DVI is squarer than VGA..

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Link:
I thought all the 2002 QSes had a DVI port on the back.. you know this is pretty damn easy to tell.. if the port next to the ADC port has a plus-shaped plug on it.. not to mention DVI is squarer than VGA..

It definitely has VGA. That's what I am using on my old CRT right now. I didn't realize that the Apple displays had abandoned ADC.

What about this firmware upgrade. It doesn't give me the 20"s native resolution now as an option. Is that because I need an upgrade, or is it just because it isn't detecting a wide screen monitor?

Sorry if these questions seem kind of dumb. I have tried searching the Apple site and the forums to no avail.

[pooka]

I could be wrong, but I don't recall a firmware update for the QS systems (2001 or 2002).

Check this chart to be sure.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86117

Maybe he meant a video card firmware update? I dunno. But you would think that would have shown up in Software Update when available.

[effgee]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
OK, thanks very much. What about this firmware update? (and how do I do it?)

I'd trust the guy at the Apple store and assume he's right. Basically, there's three ways to go about this ...

1. The firmware update should (theoretically) be included on CD with the display - ask the dude at the store, he'll know.
2. Before going to the Apple store to buy the display, write down your machine's serial number. You'll find it when you run System Profiler (ASP), which is located in "Applications" > "Utilities". To be 2000% sure, maybe you'll also want to bring a printout of the ASP report with you. Then you can show the genius your report and he'll know where to download the firmware update from (bring your USB stick/a blank rewritable CD).
3. Wade through the search results at Apple's download site - since I'm a lazy bum, this one's not my cup of tea.
   
   

The firmware update itself is a software update like any other. With one important exception - if it anything goes wrong (unlikely), chances are that your machine will no longer boot. What this means is that a thorough backup of all your important data is on order before updating the machine.

HTH

[SimeyTheLimey]

Damnit, you mean I will have to go to the store and pay sales tax? Great stuff guys, thanks very much for the help.


BTW, Formac's online store now shows my order as cancelled. At least they got that right (so far!).