[00101001]

Totally sucked!!!

I just got back from Monsters Inc. (which was really good, by the way) and was really dissapointed by the new star wars trailer. It was basically a few random shots of c-3po, r2d2, one spaceship, and about 0.004 seconds of a lightsaber battle - no suspense - no drama - no real action... it had absolutely NOTHING a good trailer should have.

Lucas better get his act together for this movie, because I am going to be seriously pissed off if it sucked like the last one.

PS. But Monsters Inc. was really really good

[SillyMonk]

I could be wrong because I haven't seen it yet but I don't think that was supposed to be a trailer, I think that was a teaser, as in shorter than a trailer and not really meant to sell a movie but to pique your interest, like a sip of water when you're thirsty. KWIM? Usually they have teasers a year before the movie comes out to get you hoping, kinda like Rhapsody and OS X....

[Nonsuch]

The only buzz I've heard has said Attack of the Clones is much better than Phantom Menace, but perhaps that's not saying a lot.

I have a feeling that many Star Wars fans looking to the new films for that old sense of mythological derring-do are going to be a lot more enthusiastic about Lord of the Rings ....

[Immortal K-Mart Employee]

Let me start off by saying how glad I am that you said that. I thought I was going to come here to see a group full of star wars fans in total denial over this horrid "teaser".

I LOVE 110% first 3 star wars films.
I have been batteling with people over TPM convincing them how much it sucked and it took them 2 years to admit that I am right.

I went with my friend today to see monsters inc and the preview. He assure me that Ep 2 would be darker and better. I was hoping so much that from what I would see that it would look at least OK. I was sure that it would suck though as anyone who could come up with the concept of Jar Jar must be delusional.

Nothing could have prepared me for this ultra horrible "teaser" that I saw tonight for Ep 2 though.

I knew they would throw in some stupid Bobba Fett scenes to get the geeky fans all hard.
If anything you would think that George would learn from the mistakes in Ep 1 and try not to recreate them.

The first shot they showed is Padme with a bad perm. The first bloody thing. The rest was no better.

George has an ego beyond all belief as he knows Star Wars geeks will see the movie 10 times to beat Titanic in the biggest movie income.

The whole preview is Darth Vader breathing with no other audio. That would normally be fine but they show cute padme and Wato that junk dealer. Not to mention Yoda. None of that relates to Darth Vader Breathing.

This is bad bad bad work. Bad concept. Bad "teaser".

We need to accept that there was 3 good Star Wars movies years ago and that Ep 1-3 are just plain old going to suck big time. Just like the Godfather 3.

I think it was best summed up with the audience reaction before and after the preview. The theatre is one of the best in the country with pure digital projection and stadium seating that holds over 300. When the lucasfilm logo came up in the beginning everyone cheered and was really excited. The second the 27 second "teaser" ended everyone started laughing and groaning.

Star Wars fans need to watch the originals pre Lucas Ego and move over to the Lord Of the Rings instead.

The clincher is that I head that you NEED QuickTime Pro if you want to watch the trailer online. You see, George doesn't have enough money as it is. Lucas is the new Bill Gates.

Accept it SW fans. The series is at a dead end.

P.S. Mosters Inc was absolutely amazing. The short bird Skit before the movie was better then the SW teaser and more entertaining then Ep 1.

[iCartman]

The clincher is that I head that you NEED QuickTime Pro if you want to watch the trailer online. You see, George doesn't have enough money as it is. Lucas is the new Bill Gates.

That's an Apple enforcement, not Lucasfilms. Steve's been too buddy buddy with Bill the last couple of years and Bill taught him some shifty ways of getting money. Lucas is isolated on the ranch and lost all touch with reality (how else does one explain Jar Jar?).

[MikeM32]

I'm a fan of the old (original) Star Wars movies to be honest. But I won't deny that Episode 1 just didn't come anywhere near those. I won't say I "hated" it though. There was some interresting stuff about Darth Sideous and Senator Palpatine. Nevermind that they're played by the same actor who also played the Emperor in Return of the Jedi. Coincidence?

I still say "Attack of the Clones" is a real poor choice in titles. I can already see people calling it "Attack of the CLOWNS" or some such thing. "The Clone Wars" would have been more appropriate.

I think one thing Lucas could have done is to have let someone else actually direct these like he did with Episodes 5 & 6.

I will admit that I've "stuck around" seeing the movies because I'm just eager to see how Anakin "becomes" Darth Vader. I'm also interrested in how The "Empire" comes into existence and how all the Jedi are wiped out. I'm mainly interrested in seeing what happens that leads into the old trilogy really.

Besides even if Episodes 1-3 all wind-up sucking badly, Episodes 4-6 make-up for that.

Lucas himself said that these would be more "political" and less "action/adventure" oriented. That's why he made Episodes 4-6 first.

Mike

[ 11-03-2001: Message edited by: MikeM32 ]

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
<STRONG>Star Wars fans need to watch the originals pre Lucas Ego and move over to the Lord Of the Rings instead.</STRONG>

LMAO.

Oh, boy thats funny

[cpatubo]

It's all funny.

[Immortal K-Mart Employee]

Originally posted by iCartman:
<STRONG>That's an Apple enforcement, not Lucasfilms. Steve's been too buddy buddy with Bill the last couple of years and Bill taught him some shifty ways of getting money. Lucas is isolated on the ranch and lost all touch with reality (how else does one explain Jar Jar?).</STRONG>

Keep telling yourself that. I

f Steve said to George "We are only going to let people with the paid version of OUR software watch your movie." you think that would slide with any movie company?

It was more like this. George said to Steve "Lets only let people with the paid version of QuickTime watch my preview and we can split the amount of money from the registrations that day".

Beacause George knows that the Star wars fans would be stupid enough to do it.

[iCartman]

Keep telling yourself that.

Then why do other movies on Apple's page require QT Pro only?

[Immortal K-Mart Employee]

Originally posted by iCartman:
<STRONG>Then why do other movies on Apple's page require QT Pro only?</STRONG>

Because only the HIGHEST quality video need QT Pro. That is fine by me.

Rumor has it even the lowest quality SW teaser will need QT Pro. And trust me, having seen it, it is not worth even the download time.

[Nimisys]

as longs as it has that JarJar **** in it it will suck

[Immortal K-Mart Employee]

Originally posted by Nimisys:
<STRONG>as longs as it has that JarJar **** in it it will suck</STRONG>

The preview doesn't but the movie does.

[hmurchison2001]

I'm not suprised. It wasn't just the storyline in TPM that sucked it was virtually everything but the visuals. The Dialogue sucked, the acting sucked the scenes were beautiful but bland. The Matrix just walked over TPM and I really don't have much faith in Lucas at all...his skills are WAAAAYYY behind James Cameron. I won't pay squat to see the Teaser. I just hope the next two Matrix series keep up the quality. Terminator 3 should be interesting as well is the script is good.

[pscates]

Is it actually Boba Fett in the teaser, or is it one of those soldiers in that familiar armor? What are they...Mandalorians?

Something like that.

Wouldn't Fett be quite young himself? I heard that his uniform was the old armor used by soldiers in the Clone War.

But in any case, it LOOKS like Boba Fett and creates a nice connection to the three original films.

I, too, am not holding out much hope for Episode II. George is directing it and I'm sure he's micro-managing every detail and listening to his kids and their friends for "advice" and such. BIG mistake.

Besides all that, it's just a different time now. 20 years ago, the effects were WAY ahead of their time and the story itself was really something you could sink your teeth into. I think we know too much now, both in real life and in the mythology/back story of these films.

It seems laid out a bit too cleanly and too by the numbers. The sense of wonder and awe is certainly missing. We seen it all before in all the films the original trilogy spawned and influenced. And, as a people and culture, we're a tad more cynical and knowing that we were two decades ago.

I think Episode II will be better than "The Phantom Menace" (it couldn't be much worse, could it?), but it won't come anywhere near the excitement, story and appeal of even "Return of the Jedi", which, most agree, is the weakest of the original trilogy.

Lucas' mistake? He's making it FOR children and for the diehard geeks, instead of making a good movie for everyone. I think time will prove me right on this. He hasn't made the movie any true fan or admirer would. He made a movie that he THINKS the Disney set and the hardcore spaz brigade will dig...but he failed because those people weren't targeted with the original trilogy.

And all the slam-bang, cool-ass CGI stuff in the world, REGARDLESS of how eye-popping and groundbreaking, doesn't mean dick if the story is weak, the characters are lame and the acting is horrible.

Stop putting the cart before the horse, George.

To paraphrase another popular movie phrase, "make a good movie and they will come..."

[Immortal K-Mart Employee]

Originally posted by pscates:
<STRONG>Is it actually Boba Fett in the teaser, or is it one of those soldiers in that familiar armor? What are they...Mandalorians?

Something like that.

Wouldn't Fett be quite young himself? I heard that his uniform was the old armor used by soldiers in the Clone War.

But in any case, it LOOKS like Boba Fett and creates a nice connection to the three original films.

</STRONG>

No, it is Bobba's dad. Jenga.

But then who cares. If this is the biggest cool tie in then we are screwed.

[pscates]

"Yo, Pops...can I take borrow the Slave 1 tonight? I got a hot date with this chick from Mos Eisley..."

"Finishing braiding those Wookie scalps and rake the back yard and we'll talk about it."

[ARENA]

No, it is Bobba's dad. Jenga.

The name is Jango Fett.
And Boba Fett is his clone, not his son.

[iCartman]

how the hell do you guys know all this stuff about the movie?

[CaseCom]

mmmm... Jenga

[Arty50]

I just got back from watching Monsters, Inc. (which I highly recommend BTW). Regarding the teaser, I have no idea whatsoever how anyone could make any assumption at all about how this movie is going to be. There was nowhere near enough scenery to even give a hint whether this movie will absolutely suck or cause tears of joy. It was a teaser (aka not even a full trailer). Was it overhyped? Maybe, but they did say it was a teaser. People get a grip. If you're not sure about the movie; go to a mantinee, use a student ID, of wait for the DVD/video. But please don't judge it by this lame excuse for a preview.

But then again, I went to go see Monsters, Inc., not the teaser. So it's no big deal either way to me.

[ 11-04-2001: Message edited by: Arty50 ]

[jwblase]

There was some interresting stuff about Darth Sideous and Senator Palpatine. Nevermind that they're played by the same actor who also played the Emperor in Return of the Jedi. Coincidence?

It could be because they're the same character (Senator Palpatine IS Darth Sideous, who in turn becomes the Emperor)

I think that Lucas shouldn't be directing. He should stay in the producing ring. Empire and Jedi worked so well because he didn't direct them. He let other people take the reins, and they did just fine with it. IMHO, the original Star Wars was kinda flimsy, but good for what they had. Also, for the most part, the Special Editions are worse than the originals. They added nothing special (Other than returning them to the big screen with new sound).

The Greedo scene in Ep 4 was just plain silly. The Jabba scene wasn't half bad, and the rest of the effects changes were just fine.

In Ep 5, the scene with Vader and the shuttle is useless. It does nothing.

In Ep 6, I'm having a hard time deciding which killed the Special Edition more: The MTV Jabba's Palace scene, or the redone ending. Both = worthless.

JB

[scottiB]

iCartman,

Checkout and poke around: http://www.countingdown.com http://www.cinecon.com http://www.corona.bc.ca/films/mainFramed.html (Coming Attractions)
and my favorite, just for the TalkBacks, http://www.aintitcool.com

It was an AoTC teaser; the full blown one is to be attached w/ Harry Potter, I believe.

Montsers, Inc, was extrememly good. Boy, Pixar (through RenderMan) got hair/fur blowing in a snow storm nailed. The fur on my cat looks fake in contrast.

[SDW2001]

I have something to say here. First, I am not a die hard, but PHANTOM MENACE DID NOT SUCK. You cannot judge this movie by standards that were around twenty years ago. That is, you cannot expect the same "wow" factor that the originals had. First, as another poster said, people are different now. We ARE more cynical and have seen all kinds of effects. You cannot judge the Phantom Menace by comparing it to the others...it is intended to SET UP the other episodes.

The movie has been blasted because it is not as exciting as the first three. Fine, I'll give you that. Jar Jar is a bit annoying too.....I also agree that the acting and dialogue is not great. I still don't think it sucked though....it had superb effects and set up the forthcoming story well.

I have seen the movie many times. There are some things I would change but overall it was very entertaining. Two other points: Lucas makes these movies becuase he wants to, not out of ego. The teaser was just that, a TEASER....I thought it made the movie look very good....people in the theatre got very excited when it came on.

The movie doesn't suck. The second one will be even better I believe.....give it a rest.

[pscates]

No.

[Arty50]

Originally posted by jwblase:
<STRONG>
Also, for the most part, the Special Editions are worse than the originals. They added nothing special (Other than returning them to the big screen with new sound).

JB</STRONG>

Amen, brother. Something has been pissing me off for a long, long time. I know this is so trivial in the grand scheme of things, but I absolutely hate the special editions for one reason. They completely ruined the death star explosion is episode 4. WTF! I absolutely HATE the explosion ring that expands outward from the death star. The old explosion remains one of the greatest explosions in all of film. It looks like a whole bunch of stars expanding outward from a point in space. It was simple, and that made it perfect. Instead they add this colorful band of crap and ruin the whole thing. And now when I buy the DVD to last my lifetime, I have to watch this travesty.

And I think therein lies the problem with the recent stuff. The special editions were mostly technical re-makes of the originals, and they hint at the focus of Lucas in his recent efforts. Graphics. Needless to say, graphics should not be the focus of the film. They should accentuate the action so as to appear seamless to the crowd. The plot of the movie should be so good that you don't say, "Hey wow, look at the detail on that alien's skin." If someone has time to notice that, it's a sure sign the plot sucks. Episodes 4-6 were a perfect example of this. Sure there were some amazing graphics like the speeder bikes. But were you saying OMFG because that scene looked so good, or because you were hoping that either Luke got that last scout or someone would run into a tree again? See what I mean. Most stuff was simple though like the death star explosion, all the laser/turbolaser/ion cannon bolts, and the ships flying around. Sure that wasn't technically simple at the time, but they weren't over the top graphics that distracted the user from the plot. They served to primarily heighten the action and draw the viewer in and only secondarily to make someone say "Wow." With the exception of the pod races, Episode 1 blew this big time. The imperial droid v. jar jar's army battle at the end was nothing more than a big graphics fest. Most people weren't really drawn in by it.

[jwblase]

SDW2001: I will heartily disagree with you here. Phantom Menace did, indeed, suck as a movie. My personal opinion on the matter:

On characters: Jar-jar was a worthless character. He had no depth. It seems that Lucas was trying to make another Chewbacca. However, what made Chewie a wonderful character (even though he didn't speak) was that he wasn't a goofball. Jar-Jar, on the other hand, didn't fulfill any kind of role in the movie. He wasn't anybody's sidekick, he didn't have the secret key to the ancient temple of anything, and he had no knowledge that couldn't have been found anywhere else in the movie. True, he was the link to the Gungans, but that could have been made in a more serious matter than Lucas made out.
I found it hard to understand how the Gungans were important to the movie. The same character roles could have been fulfilled with a rebel faction of the humans on Naboo. In fact, having them be underwater people didn't seem to make any sense whatsoever to me. For Lucas, it did make an interesting video game scene where they have to go through the sea to get to the capital city. (Through the core of the planet!!! That's insane! From a realistic perspective, it doesn't even make sense. Hyperdrive is plausible from the conditions set up in the movie. Through the core of the planet is not.) No real plot helper there.

Plot: The plot here was weak. After rewatching the movie, Darth Maul's character was poorly developed. It didn't matter that he barely spoke, but it was the fact that he didn't do anything but kill Qui-Gon. While he introduced the idea of the Sith, that could have been done in a more plot-oriented way.
I think that Lucas was trying to do too much with this movie, and ended up pulling off none of it. While people are trying to compare it to Star Wars, it wasn't that good of a movie on its own anyway. Lucas needed to modify his tactics for a more modern audience. Special effects alone cannot do that, even though Lucas tried to use them for just that purpose: plot support.

The only thing that can shore up a bad movie is good characteristics. I don't think Lucas did that at all.

JB

[Immortal K-Mart Employee]

Originally posted by jwblase:
<STRONG>

It could be because they're the same character (Senator Palpatine IS Darth Sideous, who in turn becomes the Emperor)

JB</STRONG>

You guys are kidding right? This was not even an assumption. This is common fact for anyone with a grade 1 education.

BTW Ep1 DID suck. I am not judging it by the other 3 movies. It stinks standing alone and if it wasn't for the other 3 movies it wouldn't have made half the money and George and his script writing skills would have been laughed out of the industry.

Ep1 set up NOTHING for the series. What did we learn other then Queen Amidala changes costumes in the middle of her planet being invaded and some cool guy named Maul dies after 2 lines of diologe. Oh not to mention they call Anikan Skywalker a "Human Being". Who new this took place on earth.

All episode 1 is was an excuse to show of:

1) Silly CG characters that nobody likes.
2) Create a pod race so they can sell video games based on it. Video games make more money then movies do BTW.
3) Make lots and lots of toys that nobody wants.
4) Lucas proving to himself that nomatter what claptrap he put out Star Wars fans will still call it a good movie.

Accept it.

[MikeM32]

It could be because they're the same character (Senator Palpatine IS Darth Sideous, who in turn becomes the Emperor)

Yeah, I think that's dead-on obvious. That was really the most interrresting thing suggested in Episode 1. The whole "cute little kid as main character" thing was one thing that just made it harder for me to get into as-well. The characters of Qui Gon and Obi Wan made up for that in some sense. But I think Lucas had to start the whole thing somewhere regardless of how poorly/well it compared as a movie to the other films.

I think that Lucas shouldn't be directing. He should stay in the producing ring. Empire and Jedi worked so well because he didn't direct them. He let other people take the reins, and they did just fine with it. IMHO, the original Star Wars was kinda flimsy, but good for what they had.

Agreed there. I'm (yet another) "Empire" fan. The best of the entire series thus-far, and possibly one of the best films I've ever seen. Jedi was a little weaker in comparrison but wrapped-up very well in the final confrontation.

I think Lucas did well with "A New Hope" mainly because of the time it was released and because it was something "new" for everyone at that time. I've compared TPM to ANH in some ways. Is it me or do both sort-of have the same basic "scenario" going on? The final� of both are a little too similar IMHO. "Kid/Teenager goes forth to becoime a hero then blows up the evil enemies main base/space-ship".

I really hope for a different scenario in the up-coming films. If Lucas is really following the whole premise of a Greek tradgedy there will need to be some films that end on a "low point", like Empire did.

Also, for the most part, the Special Editions are worse than the originals. They added nothing special (Other than returning them to the big screen with new sound).

The Greedo scene in Ep 4 was just plain silly. The Jabba scene wasn't half bad, and the rest of the effects changes were just fine.

In Ep 5, the scene with Vader and the shuttle is useless. It does nothing.

In Ep 6, I'm having a hard time deciding which killed the Special Edition more: The MTV Jabba's Palace scene, or the redone ending. Both = worthless.

I think some of the new stuff added was pretty good. I think Lucas wants to add a consistent "look" to make the new films and the old ones blend together a little better. This way someone can sit through all 6 episodes and find it consistent as far as the over-all "look" goes. There's always going to be noticeable differences though.

Many of the additions in Episode 4 were good ones. The Greedo thing was dumb though.

Episode 5 didn't even "need" anything at all. The whole shuttle sequence is the only real "noticeable" addition because the "changed" dialogue doesn't even "fit-in". We didn't "need to see" Vader boarding his shuttle and then deboarding on his Star Destroyer. I'd say that part was just "excessive". There really wasn't much to "fix" in Empire, that's probably why most of the new stuff they added except that is barely noticeable.

Episode 6 is an example of where they should have used the CGI to make those damn-fake-looking Ewoks look more realistic. I think that's always been my only gripe about Jedi. Of course that would have been a huge project. I actually liked the new Jabba's Palace song sequence, so sue me. The added ending is something I could take or leave really. If Coruscant became the Empire's "home planet" then many of it's inhabitants would be willing followers of the Empire. Suddenly everyone there is tossing stormtroopers off buildings and partying

Mike

[jwblase]

The thing that I think is the most pathetic about the new trilogy is that Lucas has said that all along, the story was about Vader, not Luke. What a crock! Raise your hands if, in 1986, you thought that the movies was about Vader and not Luke and the other heroes!!! No one? That's because THEY"RE NOT!!!

Lucas is trying to change the story of the original three that people have grown to love to mesh with his shiny new, politically correct, kid-safe version of the Star Wars saga. Now, it's all about Vader really being a good person that made a few mistakes instead of about a boy who grew up to face the realities of the world (universe) as it stands.

Another thing to put into this quasi-rant: WTF is up with the Greedo scene in Ep 4? The Special Edition script now says that Greedo fires first, because Han would never have fired without probable cause. BULLSHIT! Han, before he became a freedom fighter, was a take no **** , rock 'em - sock 'em smuggler who'd cut your throat if you crossed him, but with a good heart. It was his meeting of Princess Leia that changed him, because he fell in love with her, or something like that.

I don't know where Lucas gets off changing the nature of characters AFTER THE STORY! Adding new things afterwords is one thing. Changing the things themselves is another.

I pray that Ep 2 has someone standing behind Lucas with a smelly week-old runner's sock during story writing, filming, and post-production. Every time he comes up with a stupid idea, he should be forced to smell the sock. The second time he mentions the idea, he should be forced to lick the sock. If he does it for a third time, he should be forced to eat the sock. Hopefully, after enough socks, he should figure out how to make the story decent.

Arrrrggggghhhh!!! Nothing pisses me off more than a screwed up storyline!!!

JB

[Nonsuch]

Originally posted by Arty50:
<STRONG>

And I think therein lies the problem with the recent stuff. The special editions were mostly technical re-makes of the originals, and they hint at the focus of Lucas in his recent efforts. Graphics.
</STRONG>

I always hear Star Wars fans make this argument: that Lucas was a great filmmaker who was corrupted by falling in love with his tools, and in effect confusing the tools with the work for which they were built. But I disagree.

I'm going to get flamed to hell for this but oh well, here goes: Lucas was always a lousy writer and a lousy director. Lucas has always been into the graphics above all else. Mark Hamill has said on more than one occasion that "If George could make movies without actors, he would." Actors insist on embellishing and improving their characters; they complain when the dialogue they're given to read is stilted and wooden, when they're given nothing but blue screens to act with. (Harrison Ford complained that the only direction Lucas was capable of offering him was either "Like that, only better" or "Faster, more intense.") Phantom Menace is a step toward solving that problem: he can now build characters digitally, and they will mug and leer exactly how he wants them to. He does still need to rely on actors for voices, though he and his team have already made such progress in digital voice editing and manipulation (TPM is full of it) that soon even that won't be an obstacle.

The only thing Lucas has going for him is a kind of naive, boyish love of cheesy adventure. The original Star Wars is a pretty lousy movie by most standards other than technical: sketchy characters, stilted dialogue, scenes that are pointless (what exactly is the point of splitting the droids up early in the movie, only to reunite them 2 minutes later?). What still makes it fun to watch is the air of unlikely sincerity that permeates the whole thing: Lucas really believes in this Force hokum, really finds something significant and moving in the struggles of his thinly-sketched archetypes. (Having Harrison Ford around helped a lot.) This kind of affectless seriousness flew in the face of American film in the seventies (well, except for the Godfather movies, another monster hit), but it turned out to be exactly what people were thirsting for, and kids, of course, always eat that stuff up. I certainly did. I was a huge Star Wars fan as a kid, but now the pleasures of watching the first film are mostly camp, kind of like watching the the A-Team. (I do very much enjoy Empire Strikes Back, which is helped immensely by a script by Leigh Brackett and direction by Irving Kirshner and minimal interference by Lucas (didn't he try to scotch Harrison Ford's improvised "I love you"/"I know" scene?). Jedi was lousy, reviving the weak Lucasian dialogue and characterization but omitting the charm that made it palatable.)

So what you're seeing in Phantom Menace isn't an aberration; it's exactly the movie Lucas wanted to make. Attack of the Clones is likely to be more of the same. Can anyone think of a reason why it wouldn't be?

That ought to be sufficient flamebait for now ...

[jwblase]

Actually, Nonsuch is very correct. Lucas was always a mediocre director/writer/producer. However, the Star Wars trilogy did something that most movies hadn't done in quite awhile: Take an original story and make something lasting out of it. It was part marketing, part hype, and part moviemaking.

However, duplicating the same formula in 1999/2001 isn't working. There is plenty of that going around with other people who have better talents doing the work. That's why I'm of the opinion that Lucas should stay in the producing/supervising ring, and let others take the story over.

Face it: Star Wars was a dopey film. However, it did work. Empire was better/best, and Jedi was best/better. They worked well for the times, but I don't think Menace/Clones/XXXXX will do the same thing. The audience has grown up a bit, and they want Lucas to grow up as well.

JB

[funkboy]

American Graffitti - never seen it, but heard it actually is somewhat similar to Episode I in some of its themes.

Indiana Jones - only co-written by Lucas - directed by Spielberg... ah, Spielberg... (and no, we're NOT opening that can of worms in this topic) .

Actually, looking at Lucas's filmography, I'm really surprised at the number of films he's directed - namely, not too many. In fact, his producing credits aren't even filled with a lot of amazing films. A few observations that, well, may to nonsuch's theory.

I should also mention Lucas's possibly best contribution to film - Inudstrial Light and Magic. How many movies have these guys made just amazing-looking? ILM - completely graphics/sound/eye candy oriented - is probably the biggest and best contribution Lucas has made to film as a whole.

[iCartman]

You should also remember that Lucas is an independent film maker.

[pscates]

"American Grafitti" is a GREAT movie...one of my all-time favorites. If you haven't seen it, rent it.

I don't know how much any of it has in connection with "Star Wars", but I did see an interview one time where Lucas was talking about his love of speed (going fast, not the drug) and that the cars in "American Grafitti" were played up as offshoots of that, and that eventually spread over to the "Star Wars" saga too, in how the ships were filmed and trying to capture the velocity of various ships.

I heard him say that he always thought of the Millennium Falcon as the ultimate hot rod or something along those lines.

And don't forget: Harrison Ford played Bob Falfa in "American Grafitti"...a tough-talking, cocky guy with a souped-up vehicle. They just moved him to outer space, put him in a vest and thigh holster and replaced the '55 Chevy with a spaceship.

[MikeM32]

heh I'm watching "Empire" wight now and reminded how excellent this film is

Mike

[Arty50]

Nonsuch, I agree with you completely. I hope I didn't imply that Lucas was a great, or even good, director. I was just pointing out that he managed to keep the graphics simple but sweet in the original episode 4, while he went completely overboard in episode 1. Maybe this mostly has to do with advances in technological capability, but that only serves to point out his now obvious bias of graphics over story and characters. I'd say things don't look good for episode 2, but we'll see. I just don't understand how you can shoot over 90% of a movie on a blue screen and expect the actors to perform well.

[groverat]

Why do people fool themselves into thinking that A New Hope and Return of the Jedi were good movies?

I'm sorry, people, but The Phanton Menace is the 2nd best in the series.

Star Wars fans ruin Star Wars movies.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
<STRONG>You guys are kidding right? This was not even an assumption. This is common fact for anyone with a grade 1 education.</STRONG>

We're not all friggin' geeks here.

Look, y'know WHY either Ep 1 sucks? Or why the others suck and Ep 1 doesn't? Because YOU all suck, quite contrary to what you think.

As someone said earlier; Star Wars geeks ruin Star Wars.

Get a grip. It's a friggin' movie, and yet you people come in here criticising a, what, 30 second TEASER of the movie? Damning the entire film to hell because of that?

Damning Lucas as a director because YOU don't like the movies? Well, guess what - there are valid opinions other than yours. My brother loves Ep 1, AND the others. Is he wrong, oh divine ones?

Man. You people make these movies suck. I actually like all four. Yep, thats right. Ep 1 is indeed very dumb in different ways. I wish someone would cap Jar Jar too. But so? I still liked the movie.

I'm not OBSESSED with it or anything. It's a movie.

How can you expect it to live up to the hype the Star Wars geeks gave the first three? It isn't possible. Well, not for you. For people who are the age now, that you were then, it is.

Guess what? You grew up. This thing doesn't live up to your expectations. Deal with it.

The movie is DIFFERENT. Come on, Think Different eh?

Christ. Ridiculous.

[ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: Cipher13 ]

[Nonsuch]

Originally posted by groverat:
<STRONG>Why do people fool themselves into thinking that A New Hope and Return of the Jedi were good movies?

I'm sorry, people, but The Phanton Menace is the 2nd best in the series.
</STRONG>

Yeesh, even I wouldn't go that far.

Star Wars, for all its considerable faults, has a good heart and the courage to be cheesy and not apologize for it. Phantom Menace has none of that, though it does have some singularly unimpressive heroes, badly overacting digital characters, and a lot of half-assed attempts at political drama that feel stolen from a bad Deep Space Nine episode.

Since I've been ragging on Lucas so much, I thought I'd offer something I do like about the Star Wars movies: the technology looks real. That is, the space ships and other futuristic appliances look grubby, used, and banged up; even Darth Vader looks a little worse for wear in the first film.

[Nonsuch]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
<STRONG>

Damning Lucas as a director because YOU don't like the movies? Well, guess what - there are valid opinions other than yours. My brother loves Ep 1, AND the others. Is he wrong, oh divine ones?

Man. You people make these movies suck. I actually like all four. Yep, thats right. Ep 1 is indeed very dumb in different ways. I wish someone would cap Jar Jar too. But so? I still liked the movie.

I'm not OBSESSED with it or anything. It's a movie.

</STRONG>

Uh-huh. We're all being ridiculous, except you, who posted in a topic which doesn't interest you at all (because it's just a movie), telling us how wrong we are for apparently disagreeing with your brother and how dare we do that, and how wrong we are in fact for even discussing this at all, but it's not like you're OBSESSING or anything. Or something like that.

Yes, Cipher, your brother is wrong, and so are you. Christ, are we a little light on sleep today? What do you care what I or anyone else thinks of Star Wars movies? And if you do care, why pretend you don't? And how about coming down from your high garret and debating the issue instead of pissily insisting the entire topic is stupid?

[groverat]

Mark Hammill is a **** actor. He butchered Luke almost as bad as the little Ep.1 brat butchered Anakin ("Yipee!").

Those short, fat monkeys in Jedi were just as blatant as Jar-Jar Binks in their "Sell this movie to kids and make toys!" aims.

The Phantom Menace was entertaining.

Empire Strikes Back was a good movie. Dark, creepy, sinister, Hammill still being a crappy actor but made tolerable by the cool story.

1) Empire Strikes Back
2) The Phantom Menace
3) A New Hope
4) Return of the Jedi

[Nonsuch]

Originally posted by groverat:
<STRONG>Mark Hammill is a **** actor. He butchered Luke almost as bad as the little Ep.1 brat butchered Anakin ("Yipee!").</STRONG>

I actually think he's the only one in Jedi who doesn't embarrass himself too badly. Harrison Ford is excruciating in that film--one of the most enjoyable heroes of contemporary film reduced to the wacky neighbor character on a sitcom. "I don't know--fly casual!" And Carrie Fisher, by her own admission, was so whacked on coke she barely knew where she was.

<STRONG>Those short, fat monkeys in Jedi were just as blatant as Jar-Jar Binks in their "Sell this movie to kids and make toys!" aims.</STRONG>

You know, I never thought the Ewoks were that bad, for one reason: they're an uncommon example in the Star Wars universe of a humble people rising up to destroy a powerful enemy. Almost like the hobbits in Lord of the Rings, they illustrate that no one so too small or insignificant that they can't help out in the fight against evil. Kinda makes you warm inside.

[ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: Nonsuch ]

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Nonsuch:
<STRONG>

Uh-huh. We're all being ridiculous, except you, who posted in a topic which doesn't interest you at all (because it's just a movie), telling us how wrong we are for apparently disagreeing with your brother and how dare we do that, and how wrong we are in fact for even discussing this at all, but it's not like you're OBSESSING or anything. Or something like that.

Yes, Cipher, your brother is wrong, and so are you. Christ, are we a little light on sleep today? What do you care what I or anyone else thinks of Star Wars movies? And if you do care, why pretend you don't? And how about coming down from your high garret and debating the issue instead of pissily insisting the entire topic is stupid?</STRONG>

So amazingly predictable

"You're not a fan, so don't comment!"

Heh... okay, I concede, I have to be a Star Wars geek to have an opinion on the movies.

As for the shittiness: I had two 3-hour exams today, both of which majorly sucked. That's why I'm in such a good mood

[ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: Cipher13 ]

[FridgeMagnet]

Amen, brother. Something has been pissing me off for a long, long time. I know this is so trivial in the grand scheme of things, but I absolutely hate the special editions for one reason. They completely ruined the death star explosion is episode 4. WTF! I absolutely HATE the explosion ring that expands outward from the death star. The old explosion remains one of the greatest explosions in all of film. It looks like a whole bunch of stars expanding outward from a point in space. It was simple, and that made it perfect. Instead they add this colorful band of crap and ruin the whole thing. And now when I buy the DVD to last my lifetime, I have to watch this travesty.

Yup! I agree wholeheartedly with you there, the standard ILM explosion with expanding shockwave is getting embarrasing, it's starting to look like a Photoshop lense flare,

George -"hmmm, what could this explosion look like? I know, what if it has this shockwave ring coming out of it towards the audience......?"

Also Jar Jar, as I think others may have mentioned, was suckier than a sucky thing on sucky day in sucky town. I mean I know that star wars characters have been invented before for merchandising but this guy was beyond stupid, I much preffered C3PO and R2 as the comic relief. I know that one of the ewoks out of Jedi hits himself around the head but Jar Jars 'bumbling' battle scene with him getting into all sorts of 'amusing' capers while supposedly being some kind of general was questionable at the least. I mean you see the ewoks getting blown to pieces for gods sake, I felt like the Gunghans were messing around in the park playing with water bombs!

Anyway blah blah blah, it's only a film.

[Nonsuch]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
<STRONG>

So amazingly predictable

"You're not a fan, so don't comment!"

Heh... okay, I concede, I have to be a Star Wars geek to have an opinion on the movies.

</STRONG>

Way to caricaturize without actually responding.

You said we were all dorks for making a big issue out of these movies, and you say that you and your brother both liked them and challenge us as to whether you're "wrong." You're offended by people ragging on the movies yet claim it's absurd to get worked up over the whole thing. Is it worth debating or not? Are you eating your cake or having it?

I don't care if you're a Star Wars fan or not. Seeing as I'm not really looking forward to the new films, I couldn't really say that I am anymore. You seem like an intelligent guy. If you have an opinion on the films, I'm interested in hearing it. I'm not interested in reading the self-contradictory flame/pisstake you posted earlier.

[Oh yeah: good luck on your exams. ]

[ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: Nonsuch ]

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Nonsuch:
<STRONG>

Way to caricaturize without actually responding.

You said we were all dorks for making a big issue out of these movies, and you say that you and your brother both liked them and challenge us as to whether you're "wrong." You're offended by people ragging on the movies yet claim it's absurd to get worked up over the whole thing. Is it worth debating or not? Are you eating your cake or having it?

I don't care if you're a Star Wars fan or not. Seeing as I'm not really looking forward to the new films, I couldn't really say that I am anymore. You seem like an intelligent guy. If you have an opinion on the films, I'm interested in hearing it. I'm not interested in reading the self-contradictory flame/pisstake you posted earlier.

[Oh yeah: good luck on your exams. ]

[ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: Nonsuch ]</STRONG>

Do I even need to respond though? Mine was a comment to which I expected many a flame, but it got my point across entirely. I don't need to reiterate it, nor argue it.

I'm not offended by it at all; I just find it extremely ironic the situation you all put yourselves in. Re read my post without all the spite, jest and annoyance

It might make some sense then.

I'll repost my comment later. I'm just so damn annoyed with the exam. Ha! Under the genetics topic... "How would you go about researching...?" Friggin' fools. Absolutely unbelievable. But oh well.

Haha, thanks, I'll need it

[olePigeon]

I agree 150% that Episode I was absolutely TERRIBLE. I'm actually impressed with the Episode II trailer as it didn't completely f*ck up the entire movie. Showing the double-ended light saber on Darth Maul was absolutely STUPID.

Why did Episode I suck so much? No, it wasn't Jar Jar Binks. It wasn't the terrible acting of the kid. It wasn't the stupid pod racing. It wasn't the entire 30 seconds Darth Maul was in the movie. It wasn't the stupid fish eating a fish, eating a fish, eating a fish, eating a fish, eating a fish... It was Anakin Skywalker "accidentally" blowing up the space station and saving the galaxy. Absolutely, the most retarded scene in ANY movie. That movie makes Plan 9 from Outter Space look like Academy Award material.

[Gee4orce]

I heard that in the in opening scene of the EpII Boba Fett encounters Jar Jar - and redecorates the scenery with his stupid Gungan brains.

-- Meesa Jar Jar binks. Meesa annoying cartoon character for making demsa kiddies a laughing.
-- &lt;&lt;You're no good to me alive&gt;&gt; [SPLAT!]

...or maybe I dreamt it.

In any case, if Lucas cares about what his true fans really want to see this is exactly how the movie will open.

On the other hand, he'll probably sell us all down the river and make another 120-minute cartoon populated with ridiculous aliens that look like they escaped from a reject episode of the Muppets, vaguely searching for a plot whilst totally screwing up established Star Wars canon ('Midichlorians' ? FFS !).

[walrusjb]

You know, it's funny - my parents liked Star Wars back in the day because they could always know that I'd be quiet for 90mins. They didn't like Star Wars in the same way they liked their "own" movies. (My mom says she only took me to it the first time because Harrison Ford was in it, and she liked him in Graffiti so much... )

They are and always were primarily for children. You're reviewing them with associated histrionics from your childhoods. NOTHING new in this series is going to strike you the same way. If our kids enjoy them (my daughter finds Jar Jar "stupid" BTW - so that's questionable, too), he's accomplished what he set out to do.

The Matrix, even with Johnny Pneumonia tearing away at Lawrence's screen time, is much more oriented to our age group... and likely struck any one of us who got that 5 & 6-year-old Star Wars bug in much the same way - in fact, it had an immediate influence on almost all major media surrounding it. Back in the day, Star Wars made Sci-Fi a mainstream sort of thing, though it was still heavily oriented to children (hell, watch BattleStar Gallactica re-runs on SciFi World and dispute the target demo) - it had that influence factor that the Matrix also had a few years back. EpII may not be able to get it back to this kind of influential status - just as the Brothers may not be able to pull off the same feat with Matrix II as they did before.

Harry Potter has a much better chance of taking on this type of role with our kids. And when you think about it, Sci-Fi doesn't seem so much like fiction anymore - not the way it did to us. Fantasy - that's still a hyrda of the unknown, to quote the vernacular ( ) And the HP sotryline/legacy is already in place - the marketing engine is whipped to a frenzy before a movie is ever planned?!?!? That's where my money is... EpII can't fight it. And Lord o' The Rings isn't hitting the same demo - we can count that out for this purpose. That's for us

-jb