[jcarr]

Originally posted by 00101001:
<STRONG>Totally sucked!!!</STRONG>

FWIW, I would hardly call the "Breathing" video a "Trailer." I would not even go so far as to call it a "Teaser." I would bet that the 'real' teaser will be shown with 'Harry Potter' starting on the 16th, and available at the QuickTime site shortly thereafter.

For those that remember, there were two 'trailers' for Episode One; a "Teaser," released on Nov 21, and a "Trailer" released March 11. Both were about 2 min in length, and contained quite a bit of dialog. The second, of course, had more post-production shots, but I personally like the first one better than the second.

I'm not sure what LucasFilm hopes to accomplish with this extra bit of marketing, but I plan to reserve judgement until I see the first 'real' Teaser. If this is indeed it (until March) however, I will be disapointed.

[Gee4orce]

Can someone please post a direct download link for Breathing ? I can't grab the damned thing from inside my firewall it seems - or maybe it's just mega slow.

[finboy]

Originally posted by Arty50:
<STRONG>

Amen, brother. Something has been pissing me off for a long, long time. I know this is so trivial in the grand scheme of things, but I absolutely hate the special editions for one reason. They completely ruined the death star explosion is episode 4. WTF! I absolutely HATE the explosion ring that expands outward from the death star. The old explosion remains one of the greatest explosions in all of film. It looks like a whole bunch of stars expanding outward from a point in space. It was simple, and that made it perfect. Instead they add this colorful band of crap and ruin the whole thing. And now when I buy the DVD to last my lifetime, I have to watch this travesty.

</STRONG>

I agree about the Death Star explosion. State of the art in 1977 was a lesson for all of us aspiring special effects guys -- we could do it on a MacGyver budget. I was doing similar stuff with 8mm back then (no motion control, of course) and it was cool to think that we were using the same techniques as Dykstra and the ILM guys.

BUT ... I remember the re-release of Jedi with new sound, back in the early to mid-80s (the first re-release). I had seen the original about 10 times, and the new sound blew me away. IF they took out some of the original, loveable gaffs and we got new sound out of it, then I'm willing to accept that trade-off. For the DVDs, we needed the revised soundtracks.

[Immortal K-Mart Employee]

Guess what I found.

[scottiB]

Jar Jar is in AOTC briefly. In the plot he's been elected as a senator for the Gungans--at least that's what the rumors have been saying.

Of course, Sam's thinking, "Can I kill it without anyone noticing? Yoda would back me up, I think."

[finboy]

Oh, no. Not Jar Jar. I was hoping that the opening scene of the movie would be some slow, painful death for that guy. What an obvious PANDER.

Funny, but I didn't have to have Quicktime Pro to play the trailer on my Windows 98 machine in the office.

[iCartman]

Only the high-res version requires QT Pro. Apple seems to be doing this with all thier trailers

[groverat]

You can't just drop a character out of nowhere. Jar-Jar will probably have a small role in this one and he won't be there Episode 3.

I hated the damned Ewoks when I was a kid and I hate Jar-Jar now, but a lot of kids love Jar-Jar like they loved the damned Ewoks.

If you were a kid again and you saw Episode I you would have loved it like you did A New Hope.

[pscates]

Every kid I know who saw it thought Jar Jar was weird or lame, depending on their age.
I don't think he has a cheering section anywhere, you know?

And with good reason. Still, he bugged me less than Jake Lloyd's "acting".

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by Gee4orce:
<STRONG>I ...On the other hand, he'll probably sell us all down the river and make another 120-minute cartoon populated with ridiculous aliens that look like they escaped from a reject episode of the Muppets, vaguely searching for a plot whilst totally screwing up established Star Wars canon ('Midichlorians' ? FFS !).</STRONG>

Just wanted to comment that Muppets are vastly superior to JarJar...(no, duh!) but also, to see what muppets in space is REALLY like, watch Farscape if you have the Scifi channel.

and, though I cannot respond to ep 1 since I had no desire to see it,
and havent seen it yet, my friends who live breathe and eat star wars were all summarily disappointed in it. Of the ones I've seen, (and I saw the first star wars when I was a senior in high school in the seventies) Empire ranks as the ultimate best one. And, although american graffitti was an IMPORTANT film, I'm not sure it was all that great a film. THX1138 was an interesting if unfathomable effort, probably the last decent effort of the director.

The shame with Lucas and Spielberg is that their immense monetary successes mean they can get away with putting shlock on the screen. (Spielberg can at least direct, but remember the "amazing stories" crap?)

ok, end of rant.

[mitchell_pgh]

Not to be a downer, but one of the major things I loved about the first IV, V and VI was the realism. I think they were considerably better then the episode I.

Hey Lucas, ever hear of a little thing called continuity?

[mitchell_pgh]

Direct Link to the Med. Movie...
http://starwars.apple.com/ep2/breath...sw_ctp_320.mov

[groverat]

pscates, all 3 of my nephews (the 3 that were conscious of their existence anyway) loved Jar-Jar. The main bile for Jar-Jar came from people who cared way too much about a science-fiction movie, placing some kind of idiotic weight on Episodes IV, V, and VI.

my friends who live breathe and eat star wars were all summarily disappointed in it.

Those guys were disappointed with Episode 1 because they have disappointing lives. How do you care so much about a movie series? Unless it features the second coming of Jesus Christ it's bound to be a disappointment for someone whose life is defined by a multi-billion dollar movie franchise.

. . . one of the major things I loved about the first IV, V and VI was the realism.

What realism?

[grand illusion]

run for your lives... it's the attack of the telemarketers


you'll notice them about 50 seconds in...


-beware of assuming that credentials establish intelligence
-Steve Allen

[murbot]

(assuming Seinfeld role in Bizarro World)

"Don't get QT Pro on Hotline. It is really hard, and will take more than 10 minutes."

[jwblase]

Jesus! I'm gone for a day, and the thread explodes into two whole pages!!!

Amen, brother. Something has been pissing me off for a long, long time. I know this is so trivial in the grand scheme of things, but I absolutely hate the special editions for one reason. They completely ruined the death star explosion is episode 4. WTF! I absolutely HATE the explosion ring that expands outward from the death star. The old explosion remains one of the greatest explosions in all of film. It looks like a whole bunch of stars expanding outward from a point in space. It was simple, and that made it perfect. Instead they add this colorful band of crap and ruin the whole thing. And now when I buy the DVD to last my lifetime, I have to watch this travesty.

You know. It never did make sense to me why the explosion ring would be there in the first place. The only way it should be there is if the Death Star was rotating along that axis. That way, when it exploded, the centrepital (sp?) force (no pun intended) would throw the energy out along the equator, perpindicular to the axis. However, I don't think the Death Star rotates, or if it does, it probably does along the central axis that's shown on it.

(Warning: Dorky overexamination coming!!!) The ring in Jedi explodes parallel to the axis of the Death Star. IT shouldn't do that, should it? I've been watching these damn movies since they came out, and the Special Editions just don't make sense to me. It's the little things that make the movie, and this one undid it for me.

Another pet peeve: this has to do with CGI characters. No matter how well you try to do them, the lighting never looks right. The characters look too much like Barbie.

It's not that I'm a Star Wars enthusiast (although I admit that I am), I'm a movie/story enthusiast. I hate bad stories, and bad effects to movies. If you're going to make a bad movie, admit that it's bad!!! Look at Godzilla movies! They're pathetic! That's what makes them so fun to watch! Hollywood butchered Godzilla by making him a CGI, lean and mean character. HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE THE GUY IN THE RUBBER SUIT!!! Who cares if all the plots are the same, and the monsters are unbelievable. That's why it's called "Suspension of Disbelief!"

Oh well.

Oooohhhh! Idea just spawned, that I might have to make another thread about. I'll think about it a bit..

JB

"Mmmmmmm. Roast Ewok. Tastes like... wookie."

[ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: jwblase ]

[pscates]

Groverat, never failing to please...


Do you wake up simply itching to go against the grain and poo-poo everything?

Would you agree with the statement "the sky is blue"? Will you concede that, at least?

[ink]

Originally posted by hmurchison2001:
<STRONG>I'm not suprised. It wasn't just the storyline in TPM that sucked it was virtually everything but the visuals. The Dialogue sucked, the acting sucked the scenes were beautiful but bland. The Matrix just walked over TPM and I really don't have much faith in Lucas at all...his skills are WAAAAYYY behind James Cameron. I won't pay squat to see the Teaser. I just hope the next two Matrix series keep up the quality. Terminator 3 should be interesting as well is the script is good.</STRONG>

I read Cloak of Deception by James Luceno this summer, which is sort of a prequel to the Phantom Menace. The book basically leaves off as TPM starts, but it is more interesting. It has more action and more behind-the-scenes politics regarding the Sith and the trade federation. While it wasn't as good as some other SW books (Rogue Planet by Bear), it did make TPM much more enjoyable because you realize the much more is at stake than a silly trade conflict on an insignificant outer-rim planet.

[ink]

Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:

All episode 1 is was an excuse to show of:

1) Silly CG characters that nobody likes.

Ewoks?

2) Create a pod race so they can sell video games based on it. Video games make more money then movies do BTW.

Speeder bikes?

3) Make lots and lots of toys that nobody wants.

Ahem... Matel + the original 3 films

4) Lucas proving to himself that nomatter what claptrap he put out Star Wars fans will still call it a good movie.

When it comes down to it, the original 3 movies weren't much better. The thing that's changed is us. We've grown up. My parents didn't care for the original 3 flicks much. My 8-year-old nephew absolutely LOVES TPM; he's been Obiwan for the last 2 halloweens (and Anakin the one before that).

Accept it.

I already have. My son (3 years old) just loves Jar-Jar and TPM. It seems you're the one that's mistaken... about a great many things. Star Wars has always been a children's movie. ANH was simply a re-hashed fairy tail story. ESB was probably the most original film of the bunch; the most adult. ROJ was simply a CG orgy with a not-so-evil-saves-the-day ending.

[Immortal K-Mart Employee]

Originally posted by ink:
<STRONG>

I already have. My son (3 years old) just loves Jar-Jar and TPM. It seems you're the one that's mistaken... about a great many things. </STRONG>

Really, I know of bunch of kids from age 2 to 10. They all think Jar Jar is a loser and that Maul is cool.

So you are wrong

[godzappa]

Hmm the teaser isnt bad at all. It's a -Teaser- the Hannibal teaser consisted of shots of Lector from Silence of the Lambs and some music, with the teaser poster as the final shot. No one complained about that.

Thats just the nature of a "teaser" its 1 (sometimes 2) minutes of not much... more than trying to sell a movie, the teaser is to alert people that something is on the way, down the line.

Jango Fett looks sweet, Christopher Lee always is amazing (but of course, wont be nearly as great as Tyranus as he will be as Saruman in LotR). The mood of the film will hopefully be much darker. The acting may still suck. Its sad that Lucas can now hire some of the worlds finest actors and still have cardboard performances.

Part of the reason I think A New Hope is great, as well as being the start of it all, is that Lucas didnt have the amount of control as he does now. He couldn't tell his actors to bend over backwards in ANH because they weren't working for a huge multi billion dollar director, just some guy with one successful movie. So A New Hope had rawness, the actors, while many weren't very talented, had an edge to them. In TPM everything is so contrived, thought out, screwed around with, to make it "perfect" to George, that it just comes away feeling shallow and weak.

And you can BET 99% of the people who are working for George arnt going to say "Um George, dont you think it would be better if we.." uh uh. It will be "GREAT WORK! Jar Jar?! Oh yes George its amazing the way you got him to jump up, spin and dance out the way of that laser bolt, you're a GENIUS!"

I was going to post about Jar Jar sticking his mug in to the trailer but was beat to it. Well what can we do, at least we can all rest knowing that by A New Hope the idiot is rotting 6 feet under somewhere.

[pscates]

"The Phantom Menace" would've been quite a nice movie with only a few tweaks/changes:

- An actor not so horrible as Jake Lloyd. The "yippee!" sounded SO stupid and hollow and "written". Didn't Lucas pay attention to "Jingle All The Way" and realize the limits of this kid? Like watching a second grader in a horrible school play recite his lines. I remember sitting in the theater going "you GOTTA be kidding me...holy crap!". Just awful. Nobody was buying what that little **** was selling.

- Jar Jar should've been toned down/scaled back a bit. Had he been present for about 60% of the time and only did one or two silly things for well-timed comic relief, I'm sure the hatred aimed his way wouldn't exist. Instead, it was just too much. It was like watching Robin Williams or someone: too much, too hard, too over-the-top and for too long. It was a constant barrage of him acting silly and after the first three or four instances, it got VERY old and annoying. He's an idiot and he's not funny or charming.

- More scenes and more presence by Darth Maul. The trailer and all the hype leading up to the movie seemed to imply that he would be quite a looming, Vader-esque presence (plus he just looked so BAD-ASS!). But he was only in about 4 scenes and had little dialog. I'm certain had he played a larger role and became more of a lingering menace throughout (at least give him some sinister lines to say or show him killing some more people), the movie would've had a much more enjoyable "good vs. bad" vibe to it.

The adult human actors were all fine. I mean McGregor and Neeson are by no means hacks and Portman, Anakin's mom and Palpatine did completely fine, acceptable work. Basically, it was the kid and the CGI characters (Jar Jar, Watto, the Gungan leader, etc.) that bungled it up and made parts of it truly embarrassing and tough to watch.

For instance, who among us bought into that whole bullcrap at the end where The Brat ACCIDENTALLY blew up the Trade Federation ship? Anyone? That was such an unbelievable (in a bad way) scene. Honestly, in that situation, most 10 year old kids would be pissing their pants and screaming for their mom, NOT uttering "oops..." and "this is INTENSE!" like they're playing a cool video game or whatever.

Think of how much cooler the scene would've been if played straight and serious: you have this kid who knows there is something special about him. When he's flying and fighting that ship, instead of everything being lucky, happy accidents and pure dumb luck (that people weren't buying and actually laughing and groaning at), what if we got a cool first inkling of how the Force was with him? What if instead of trying to be cute and stumbling across all the controls, you saw Anakin seem to relax, close his eyes, cool, dramatic music rose and for the first time, the Force seemed to play a major role in his life (reflexes, bravery, knowledge of flying, etc.). That could've been a very dramatic and cool way to illustrate that he - even at that young age - could tap into that and harness some of that mysterious power and insight. Instead, Lucas played it like a stupid Saturday morning riff and it was painful to watch.

More scenes of Qui Gon and Obi Wan wouldn't have hurt either.

Tone down Jar Jar, pull back on the CGI "cuteness" of some of the characters, given the role of Anakin to a more accomplished, talented young actor (don't tell me they aren't out there...hell, Haley Joel Osment would've mopped the floor with that role!) and introduce a sense of foreboding evil to the proceedings and the movie probably would've been 10 times better. It still would've been enjoyable for kids because of the little boy and Jar Jar would've actually been funnier had it not been 24/7 (too much of anything isn't good) and they would've dug the spaceships and fights, just like we all did 20 years ago.

Imagine if Chewbacca was CONSTANTLY bumbling or doing something "cute"...we would've hated him too.

It just seems to me that Lucas lost any sense of moderation and "playing it low" in "Episode One".

It could've been SUCH a better movie with just a few minor tweaks.

[jwblase]

For instance, who among us bought into that whole bullcrap at the end where The Brat ACCIDENTALLY blew up the Trade Federation ship? Anyone?

Ooohhh! Ooohhh!!! Pick me, pick me. I believed it!

Oh, alright. You have me there. I didn't *really* believe it. I just wanted to be picked for something.

JB

[Immortal K-Mart Employee]

Um anyone else notice that in 3 out of the 4 Star Wars movies that they blow up the bad guys ship "From the inside".

I have to know what George was thinking when he came up with that idea for the 3rd time!!!

"I know, they can blow up the ship from the inside".

[BigMark]

Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
<STRONG>

The preview doesn't but the movie does.</STRONG>

The preview does, actually.

[Immortal K-Mart Employee]

Originally posted by BigMark:
<STRONG>

The preview does, actually.</STRONG>

You read my post above? I even posted a screengrab.

[godzappa]

Um anyone else notice that in 3 out of the 4 Star Wars movies that they blow up the bad guys ship "From the inside".

I have to know what George was thinking when he came up with that idea for the 3rd time!!!

"I know, they can blow up the ship from the inside".

Hah, actually on the Phantom Menace DVD's commentary by Lucas and Co, he says he wanted it to be like a poem

Repeating themes, one verse then the next, then repeat sort of thing.

He wanted Anakins blowing up the ship to mirror Lukes blowing up the death star.

It would have been cool, if the kid had been well chosen and not a terrible little brat actor, to have had Anakin know EXACTLY what he was doing. Showing he had a powerful force and also a little bit of a mean streak which would grow into the man who would become Vader.

Instead we get Ooops and I'll try spinning, thats a good trick

I mean COME ON! Who the hell wrote this. Well we know who but still...

[pscates]

Actually, Immortal Kmart Employee, you could say 4 out of the 4 movies featured the patented "blow the bad guy's crap up from the inside" trick:

How about in "Empire" after Luke crashes his snowspeeder and ends up shooting a cable up to one of the Imperial walkers and tosses in that little explosive?



The rebels liked to blow stuff up from within AND they liked to trip big metallic walking things. Oh yeah, they also liked getting shot in huge numbers by stormtroopers.

[godzappa]

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

1) The Empire needs to invest in screen doors so ships stop flying or shooting torpedoes into the center and hitting the engine core.


2) All starbases and power facilities need to invest in hand rails and "Watch your step" signs next to the bottomless pits. To many people have fallen down them (all 4 movies) from Stormtroopers, the emperor, Maul, Luke, Luke's hand, Vaders hand, you name it.

[pathogen]

I liked the teaser... but the special effects look completely over lit. Too bright. They have a look that is way too atmospheric and pastel soft hues. It's gonna look pretty blechy on DVD. For Phantom Menace, you can see too much of the compositing on television, the way you couldn't in a theatre...

[ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: pathogen ]

[Kestral]

Originally posted by pathogen:
<STRONG>I liked the teaser... but the special effects look completely over lit. Too bright. They have a look that is way too atmospheric and pastel soft hues. It's gonna look pretty blechy on DVD. For Phantom Menace, you can see too much of the compositing on television, the way you couldn't in a theatre...

[ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: pathogen ]</STRONG>

Oh come on! This is my one huge pet peeve. Why is it that for nerds, every freaking movie has too look all dark and gloomy like those stupid first person shoot'em up games (which by the way I have no love for)? Anyways, I'm only a casual observer when it comes to Star Wars (I'm a Star Trek guy, the modern ones - late TNG, DS9, Voyager - TOS is just too cheesy for me), I personally just don't like the idea of prequels, which is why I'm not a huge fan of this new Enterprise - I'm sorry, but how could they make Scott "Mr. Freaking Quantum Leap" Dracula a captain of a starship?! That Andorian episode last week was actually pretty cool but dammit, I want to see more Borg, Dominion, and cool technology like transphasic torpedoes, abaltive shielding, multi-vector assault mode. But I digress - prequels suck, you already know what's going to happen, and as people here have already mentioned, the contiunity just isn't there (we Star Trek folks are experts on this subject). Loved the Ewoks when I was a kid, hate Jar Jar Binks, I agree with the guy that said Lucas is out of touch with reality - I call it the Michael Jackson syndrome. At this point Star Wars is in the "cashing in on old glory" stage - like a Kiss reunion concert, it's about as relevant as a refrigerator in an igloo. As for Lord of the Rings, I never fell for that scam - that's for college nerd unix geeks (which there are many more of now that OS X is out).

[georgius]

Okay...I haven't read all this thread...don't have th etime...but here is my five cents...

1. Jar Jar is COOL!!!!
2. Harry Potter is absolute..SH!TE!!!!!!
3. And I'm looking forward to the next film...gotta download that trailer...

Play it cool

[MikeM32]

I finally got to catch the teaser this morning. I had to view the smallest version, but may try the medium one later on. I can't say I hated it at all, it looked pretty good for what it is: a teaser. No it doesn't give away any real information, but that's because it's just a teaser.

I'm curious about what that "Boba Fett" looking character is all about. It even looked like one of the ships was similar to the Slave 1. I'll buy almost any explanation except that this guy is Boba Fett. I'm also curious about why Yoda looks so pissed off in the one scene.

pscates said:

For instance, who among us bought into that whole bullcrap at the end where The Brat ACCIDENTALLY blew up the Trade Federation ship? Anyone? That was such an unbelievable (in a bad way) scene. Honestly, in that situation, most 10 year old kids would be pissing their pants and screaming for their mom, NOT uttering "oops..." and "this is INTENSE!" like they're playing a cool video game or whatever.

The "cutesy" dialogue cartainly was too much. I think alot of that was to suggest that he doesn't yet have the complete mastery of the force yet. Then there's the fact that he's flying something he's never flown before. Plus the fact that he's "forced" into battle because of the fighters auto pilot. I really think that by the end of the film his "awareness" of this ability is effecting his confidence level.

He's been taken away from his mother and his every-day life and now he's "afraid" of what the future will bring. Yoda sensed his fear early-on, and as the rest of the story will un-fold Yoda's predictions about Anikan will become true. Anikan is actually the "hero" of the whole story. Lucas is trying to make us familiar with "who" Anikan was before he went bad.

You could contrast the Trade Federation droid control ship sequence with the Pod Race scene where his Pod was damaged by Sebulba. He knows his own machine very, very, well and his confidence in it is pretty high. He's voluntarily racing it so he knows what he's doing and not just a "victem of circumstance". He's trying to get the engine to start-up again and then "boom" everything just starts to work. That sequence seemed to show a certain level of confidence in a power he's not even aware he has.

Then there's that whole part where his Pod Racer flies up into the air and comes back down again to win the race. I'd say that was him using "the force". He's just not yet aware that he's using it. Did this part remind anyone else of when Vader's TIE fighter and his escorts come in for the attack in the ending of ANH?

The Pod Race sequence showed that he does actually have this control over the force, even though he's not really aware that he's using it. Nevermind the effects of that sequence, (which just ruled, except for the dumb two-headed announcer ) I still say it was the most meaningful parts of Episode 1.

The most terrible thing in Episode 1 to me is the "suggestion" that Anikan is the product of an "immaculate conception" like Jesus Christ That was way over the top to me. I'm not "religiously offended" because I'm not even religious to begin with, but the "notion" is just too silly IMHO.

groverat said:

Why do people fool themselves into thinking that A New Hope and Return of the Jedi were good movies?

I'm sorry, people, but The Phanton Menace is the 2nd best in the series.

Star Wars fans ruin Star Wars movies.

My list: (in order).........

#1 "The Empire Strikes Back"

Un-deniably the best SW movie. Heck, this is one of the best movies of all time IMHO. The entire battle sequence on Hoth just rules.

#2 "A New Hope"

I was there in 1977 (I was 8 yrs old). It's the first movie I really "remember" seeing in theaters so vividly. I conned every friends mom or dad to take us to see it. I'd seen it 13 times in theaters, and I've never ever seen another movie in theaters so many times since then. Yes it wasn't as polished clean as it's followers but that also adds something nostalgiac to it. It's simply the movie that "started it all".

#3 "Return of the Jedi"

I liked Jedi, but had a few issues with the whole "Ewoks" sequence. Jedi kinda "dragged-on" for me until the ending. The main thing in this one was the confrontation scene with Luke, Vader, and The Emperor. That sequence was the best of all the films.

#4 "The Phantom Menace"

Last on my list. Maybe it's because I'm too entrenched with liking the original Trilogy. I do think Lucas needed to start somewhere however. There's just too many special effects "foibles" in this that aren't easy to accept. It also seems to faintly "mirror" Episode 4 in many ways. Maybe as the rest of the prequels come out this one will look better in retrospect.

Mike

[ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: MikeM32 ]

[ARENA]

Today, Starwars.com confirmed that later this month the real teaser (or 'Trailer A') will be available. So, after we see that, we can talk with a wider vision about Attack Of The Clones.
The 'Breathing'teaser, was just a sneak peek.

Here's the article:

The full teaser trailer for Episode II is coming - an all-new trailer will play in front of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone starting November 16 in North America and other territories. Picking up where "Breathing" left off, this new trailer is over two minutes in length and features never-before-seen footage and dialogue.

Lucasfilm and Apple will be presenting this new trailer on starwars.com exclusively in QuickTime 5 format.

[Immortal K-Mart Employee]

Originally posted by MikeM32:
<STRONG>
I'm curious about what that "Boba Fett" looking character is all about. It even looked like one of the ships was similar to the Slave 1. I'll buy almost any explanation except that this guy is Boba Fett. </STRONG>

Read the above posts. The answer is mentioned several times.

[bluedog]

Originally posted by Nonsuch:
<STRONG>

Yeesh, even I wouldn't go that far.
...
Since I've been ragging on Lucas so much, I thought I'd offer something I do like about the Star Wars movies: the technology looks real. That is, the space ships and other futuristic appliances look grubby, used, and banged up; even Darth Vader looks a little worse for wear in the first film.</STRONG>

That's because he made the mask out of old egg-cartons! Seriously, the budget for StarWars was so low, it's amazing they did the effects they did. Consider the 'worse for wear' look to be -- lack of budget. He would have done it all if he had the money. Take the MosEisley sequence in Ep4 that was redone to show the 'more expansive' city George L. always wanted to show.

[finboy]

Originally posted by pscates:
<STRONG>Every kid I know who saw it thought Jar Jar was weird or lame, depending on their age.
I don't think he has a cheering section anywhere, you know?

And with good reason. Still, he bugged me less than Jake Lloyd's "acting".</STRONG>

Right, that kid was/is hopeless. And the storyline based on his bumbling his way into saving a planet was an obvious ploy to sell toys -- Lucas' ramblings about backstory have to be just so much Bravo Sierra. It really gets on my nerves to have to watch that so-called "acting" just to get to see the rest of the movie.

Sure, groverat, if I was a kid I'd love TPM as much as I loved the original. But then I would have many more years of marketing and conditioning under my belt, and I wouldn't be able to see it for the billboard that it is. The next one looks interesting, though, just because 1) Darth ends up as Darth, and 2) Natalie Portman has grown up a lot (grrrr!).

[ThisGuy]

Holy Shite Natalie Portman! I want to be young Anakin.

[MikeM32]

jwblaze said:

The thing that I think is the most pathetic about the new trilogy is that Lucas has said that all along, the story was about Vader, not Luke. What a crock! Raise your hands if, in 1986, you thought that the movies was about Vader and not Luke and the other heroes!!! No one? That's because THEY"RE NOT!!!

Lucas is trying to change the story of the original three that people have grown to love to mesh with his shiny new, politically correct, kid-safe version of the Star Wars saga. Now, it's all about Vader really being a good person that made a few mistakes instead of about a boy who grew up to face the realities of the world (universe) as it stands.

First of all, you've got to be pretty dense or just damned insensitive to not see the "Moral of the story". And how would you even know that Lucas is trying to "change" the story? I'm willing to bet the whole basis for this was well written out way before 1977 (when "A New Hope" was released).

Most of us who saw Episode 4 "A New Hope" back in 1977 weren't even certain that this "Darth Vader" character was even just a "Human Being" wearing some sort of life support armour. When I saw it I thought Vader was a robot to be honest. Most people who saw Ep 4 back then also felt the same way. We don't even find out that Vader is an "actual person" until Episode 5 "The Empire Strikes Back".

But I will concede that Lucas has probably alterred some things from his original manuscript(s) since the '70's. I just highly doubt Lucas up and changed his whole basic concept. Why would this man even be so dedicated to only working on this one "idea" for most of his life? Besides all that, we all already know how the story ends. He really can't alter too much without losing consistency in the plot.

The story is and always was about Anakin. Also "Return of the Jedi" was released in 1983 not 1986, so lets make that clear.

Do the math.......in the ending of Episode 6 (R.O.T.J.) who saves Lukes collective butt and the entire "Galaxy" basically? It's Vader a.k.a. Anakin Skywalker. That's pretty damned clear already, even without seeing the prequels. So in most ways it's really Anakin Skywalker that's the true hero of the saga.

Luke was the pivotal character in Episodes 4-6, this much is obvious, but it's really not even "about" him. It's about a father's love for his son. Luke brings that out of Anakin and makes him finally realize that the path he chose was "wrong".

I'll be honest in saying that I still get tears in my eyes when Vader saves Lukes life by tossing his "master" into the reactor shaft.

I believe Lucas wants to tell the rest of this story that hasn't already been told. He wants us to see just how and why Anakin "goes bad". He doesn't want to leave us with the mere impression that Vader was "more machine than man".

Mike

[bluedog]

The most terrible thing in Episode 1 to me is the "suggestion" that Anikan is the product of an "immaculate conception" like Jesus Christ That was way over the top to me. I'm not "religiously offended" because I'm not even religious to begin with, but the "notion" is just too silly IMHO.

Really, it wasn't implied. She was raped by some vagabond, and didn't want to tell anyone. My guess that's what happened in Christian history. Who want's to say you're following a bastard, or rather an illegitimate child. Its preposterous!

As religious and christian as I *may* be in my beliefs its much more likely an illigitimate or child resulting from rape than anything else. So much for 'the chosen one.' More remarkable things have happened.

[Nonsuch]

Originally posted by bluedog:
<STRONG>

Take the MosEisley sequence in Ep4 that was redone to show the 'more expansive' city George L. always wanted to show.</STRONG>

I never cared for that change. In the original, you could see why Luke hated being stuck on this hick backwater of a planet; there was nothing there. Now we see it was actually this tremendous bustling spaceport. How could you be bored with a place like that nearby?

[RyanG3]

http://www.starwars.com/episode-ii/n...20011105b.html


More Episode II Video in November
November 05, 2001

The debut of the Episode II Teaser "Breathing" with Monsters Inc. this past weekend in theaters (and now in high quality QuickTime online here at starwars.com) is just the beginning of the all-new Star Wars action coming your way in November.

November 9 - Internet Preview at dvd.starwars.com
"The best DVD produced to date" (dvdtalk.com) just got better. Beginning on November 9, 2001, the Star Wars Episode I DVD will be your key to unlock an exclusive Episode II Internet Preview. Completely different than the teaser currently running in theaters, the DVD-ROM exclusive Internet Preview features all-new footage from Attack of the Clones.

This anticipated preview requires a PC DVD-ROM drive, internet access and the Episode I DVD. If you don't have your copy yet, buy one today.

November 16 - Full Teaser Trailer
The full teaser trailer for Episode II is coming - an all-new trailer will play in front of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone starting November 16 in North America and other territories. Picking up where "Breathing" left off, this new trailer is over two minutes in length and features never-before-seen footage and dialogue.

Lucasfilm and Apple will be presenting this new trailer on starwars.com exclusively in QuickTime 5 format.

[ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: RyanG3 ]

[jwblase]

MikeM32 said:

And how would you even know that Lucas is trying to "change" the story?

My bad. He's not changing the story, he's just saying NOW that it was always about Anakin. Before, it always seemed to be a story about good vs. evil, growing up, dealing with life. Now, Lucas says that it was always about Vader. I just find it a bit hard to see why the point of the story has changed now that the prequels have begun to be released.

The story is and always was about Anakin. Also "Return of the Jedi" was released in 1983 not 1986, so lets make that clear.

Typo on the keypad. Sorry.

I'll be honest in saying that I still get tears in my eyes when Vader saves Lukes life by tossing his "master" into the reactor shaft.

I 100% agree with you here.

However, I don't think Eps 4-6 were about a father's love for his son. Luke's entire reason for wanting to be a Jedi is because he wants to "learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi, like [his] father" (Ep 4). I posit that Vader realizes his mistakes because of Luke's sacrifice at the end of Ep 6. Luke couldn't kill his own father. However, Vader was ready to sacrifice his own son to the Emperor. That's why I think that Vader did what he did. I do think that Luke helped bring those feelings to the surface (through their conversations on Bespin/Endor), but I don't think that Luke caused the change directly. Vader changed himself once he saw his flaws bent through the lens of the fight with his son in ROTJ.

Differences of opinion aren't all that bad. Good conversation, MikeM32.

JB

[ink]

Originally posted by Nonsuch:
<STRONG>
I never cared for that change. In the original, you could see why Luke hated being stuck on this hick backwater of a planet; there was nothing there. Now we see it was actually this tremendous bustling spaceport. How could you be bored with a place like that nearby?</STRONG>

I'm ambivalent about the Mos Eisley changes, but I really enjoyed the Cloud City additions. Going back to the original version, all you see is a bunch of bare, white walls -- in the special edition it is much more a "cloud" city with windows and such.

I think everyone would agree that the new Jabba scene was hokey in ANH.

[MikeM32]

However, I don't think Eps 4-6 were about a father's love for his son. Luke's entire reason for wanting to be a Jedi is because he wants to "learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi, like [his] father" (Ep 4). I posit that Vader realizes his mistakes because of Luke's sacrifice at the end of Ep 6. Luke couldn't kill his own father. However, Vader was ready to sacrifice his own son to the Emperor. That's why I think that Vader did what he did. I do think that Luke helped bring those feelings to the surface (through their conversations on Bespin/Endor), but I don't think that Luke caused the change directly. Vader changed himself once he saw his flaws bent through the lens of the fight with his son in ROTJ.

I think your'e right. I may have been too hasty in my response. I think that Lukes' experiences will eventually seem to "mirror" those of his fathers. The difference is that Luke chooses the "good" path. Thus he is a pivotal character to the storyline as a whole. His own sister also has this ability, but doesn't realize it. She doesn't even know she's Anakins daughter until the very end.

Luke knew what he had, whereas his sister did not. The "burden" of this knowledge weighs and effects him differently then it did on his own father. Simply "knowing" it effects each character differently.

Mike

[jwblase]

As for what I personally thought would have been really cool as a mirror of the originals, yet keep the storyline intact. Of course, this is a sparse version, and would be stretched out over three movies...

Ep 1: Darth Maul kills Qui-Gon, but escapes.

Ep 2: Obi-Wan makes the hunt for Darth Maul a personal vendetta which Yoda and the Jedi Council doesn't sanction. Anakin also becomes part of the search, knowing that Qui-Gon promised to make him a Jedi.

Ep 3: Obi-Wan and Anakin track down Darth Maul and the Emperor. Obi-Wan ends up not being there for some reason (defeated earlier perhaps?) and Anakin fights the final battle vs. Darth Maul (mirroring Luke vs. Vader in ROTJ). This time, Anakin kills Darth Maul, and becomes the new Sith apprentice.

That would make Luke's battle with Vader that much more significant, because Luke would have not made the choice that Anakin did (to kill the apprentice). That's why Vader's sacrifice at the end of ROTJ would be much more than just a father/son thing. It would be Vader/Anakin redeeming his earlier mistakes.

As a story fanatic, that would make for a killer story, as long as the details weren't too hokey.

Mind you, that whole hunt plotline would be embedded within the other plotline of Galactic war, Clone Wars, and Empire building.

Yes? No?

JB

[MikeM32]

Ya know I have to disagree about Darth Maul. Okay cool "looking" granted, "Cool" double edged lightsabre....Granted. But I think Maul was over-hyped.

I really don't think Darth Maul is or was ever "meant" to be a "great" sith lord, like the Emperor or Darth Vader. This is why we don't really get to see all his powers or why we don't get even a hint of "intellect" from this character. Obi Wan tears this bastard to shreads after witnissing his own Master killed by him. Not even in an "honorable" way. Maul has to literally "punch" Qui Gonn in the FACE to knock him out for a brief second just to take him out.

I think Maul simply represented the "impending danger" that is "yet to come". I personally don't put alot of merit into Maul as a "major" character in the series. He's just there in Episode 1 and that's it. He's serving Darth Sideous and trained by him. Sideous is the major "menace" of the movie really and represents the "imposing threat".

I think the problem lies in the advertising of the film and the way Darth Maul was represented as if to be some "major player" in the series, when he was not. Darth Maul was just Darth Sidious' "Pupil". After Maul I'm willing to bet that Sidious/Palpatine try for someone a bit more "intelligent" like Anakin. Maul was just the "puppet" of Darth Sidious.

I mean double sabre or not Vader would have made chopped meat out of Darth Maul no doubt about it.

Mike

[Immortal K-Mart Employee]

Anyone have a smart answer as to why Anikan is called a "human being" in Ep 1?

[jwblase]

because he's human???