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Railroader · Jun 1, 2009, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

So are you saying that composition is purely subjective?

I am saying no such thing. It is both subjective and objective. It is objective in the sense that there are known ways in which compositional rules apply, but there are also examples of where a photo benefits from breaking them.

Really, this whole discussion comes down to your use of the word "tip".

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

A pretty good one though, to be honest. The rule of thirds and leading lines are so popular for a very good reason. This particular picture could benefit from their application.

I don't entirely disagree. But some basic portrait work needs to be composed in a way which allows customers to chose the crop later. For example, square framed photos are very popular right now. - - e r i k - - 's crop does not lend itself to framing the image. In a square fame the top of the head and part of the feet would be covered by the frame.

- - e r i k - - 's

Original

MarkLT1 · Jun 1, 2009, 03:01 PM

I figured I'd put this one up here. Had a baby boy back in April. Set up a little mini-studio using a white sheet for a backdrop, 580EX II off shoe lighting up the sheet, and available morning light coming through a window as my primary lighting. I've never done any portrait work before, so this is all somewhat new to me. Shot with a 60mm f/2.8 macro. This is also my first B&W conversion in a looong time, and all of my previous BW conversions were landscapes.. so very different subject matter. So I am looking for some feedback on the BW conversion as well.

Jawbone54 · Jun 1, 2009, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Railroader

I don't entirely disagree. But some basic portrait work needs to be composed in a way which allows customers to chose the crop later. For example, square framed photos are very popular right now. - - e r i k - - 's crop does not lend itself to framing the image. In a square fame the top of the head and part of the feet would be covered by the frame.

I see what you're saying, but even in the 1x1 crop, it seems like it would've been slightly more appealing to have the composition shifted a bit to the right.

This is why I can't do studio work. I have to take my clients out on location, roam around with them, laugh, have fun, and get creative on the fly with nothing but my camera and a few lenses.

Instead of focusing on how many available crops can be taken from an image, I like focusing on simply taking the best pictures I possibly can using the methods and techniques I've picked up, with a few twists thrown in for creativity's sake. I understand there will always be a demand for traditional studio photography, but I don't think I could find any sense of fulfillment from doing it on a consistent basis.

If a photo is able to be cropped for an 8x10 or 10x10, then that's fine, but taking pictures with that philosophy constantly in the back of my mind would completely rub the art out of it for me personally.

I dunno. Mindless rant...my apologies.

harbinger75 · Jun 1, 2009, 05:41 PM

Those are good points Jaw. I don't have a studio, so I tend to lean in that general direction when I'm out shooting as well. I bring my pack, and just start snapping shots. I'll take in the rule of thirds, then I'll throw it out...etc., etc. I'll take enough photos that I (or the client) can pick and choose depending on what their personal style suggests.

Mark -

That is one cute 'lil bugger you've got there! When I first saw that photo, I could have SWORN he was mocking me!!

- - e r i k - - · Jun 1, 2009, 05:58 PM

No, I did mean the tip as a piece of advice. An advice you can choose to follow or not. Taking offence to it seems to be an odd thing to do.

I always shoot with extraneous space so I can choose the crop later. And while there is a case for knowing-the-rules-to-break-them, more often than not when I do choose the most aesthetically pleasing composition, I tend to have followed them subconsciously anyway.

Railroader · Jun 2, 2009, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Taking offence to it seems to be an odd thing to do.

I never took offense to it. Just saying, it was more of an opinion in my mind than a tip. [EDIT: Yes, there is a difference.]

mattyb · Jun 16, 2009, 05:06 AM

My kids and some friends' kids last weekend.

I love having a movable Live View screen on the camera. Bound to miss it on the D40.

Phileas · Jun 16, 2009, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

needs to be composed in a way which allows customers to chose the crop later. For example, square framed photos are very popular right now.

I've worked with many people photographers throughout my career and I suspect that if you'd make that suggestion to most of them they'd look at you in disbelief. Every single shoot I've directed was done with a crop guide taped to the camera.

Comments on this very cute baby: (personal taste alert)

1. The shot looks soft to me. Even the parts that are meant to be in focus have a strange glow/softness to them.

2. That kind of mottled background is really, and I mean really, outdated.

pooka · Jun 16, 2009, 12:16 PM

I'm not a photographer and always assumed that the "rule of thirds" was a guideline for proper disposal of a corpse. I just captured this moment of random assault though.

Anyone have tips or resources for working with Camera Raw? I'm doing my best to avoid the "Eye Candy Filter" phase of digital tinkering.

Demonhood · Jun 16, 2009, 04:58 PM

fun. energetic contents and a nice comp. altho i could do without the backpack on the wall in the background (but that's what happens with fun shots).

as for Raw, i'm a huge fan of Aperture. the amount of playing around you can do (from color temp to sharpening to midtones) without losing quality is impressive. and i enjoy the ability to create different versions of the same photo without actually making a duplicate on my hard drive.

Floyde · Jun 22, 2009, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Phileas

I've worked with many people photographers throughout my career and I suspect that if you'd make that suggestion to most of them they'd look at you in disbelief. Every single shoot I've directed was done with a crop guide taped to the camera.

2. That kind of mottled background is really, and I mean really, outdated.

Agree on both points.. fair play if that's what the client wanted.. but I wouldn't have offered it. A tight close crop would be my last option before going down the "mottled" background route.
But each to their own.. and some people still like it.

As regards the crop its self... I'm not sure I would ever let the client decide on the best crop for the shot... unless they were really very passionate about it and had to have it a certain way.. I like to get the shot right (my opinion of right) in camera which also means composition/framing as well as exposure/tones etc.. I always shoot in RAW but don't rely on it.

Jens Peter · Jun 23, 2009, 01:30 AM

Originally Posted by MarkLT1

I figured I'd put this one up here. Had a baby boy back in April. Set up a little mini-studio using a white sheet for a backdrop, 580EX II off shoe lighting up the sheet, and available morning light coming through a window as my primary lighting. I've never done any portrait work before, so this is all somewhat new to me. Shot with a 60mm f/2.8 macro. This is also my first B&W conversion in a looong time, and all of my previous BW conversions were landscapes.. so very different subject matter. So I am looking for some feedback on the BW conversion as well.

First, congratulations on becoming a dad! Second, that is a fantastic portrait of your boy; the smile, eyes and the soft lightning is very good. And it works well with the B/W. To me it looks very professional.

A technically question; how do you fire the flash off camera? Is it using a cable, another flash or pocket wizards? I've been playing around with the idea, but haven't really decided on a solution yet.

harbinger75 · Jun 23, 2009, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Jens Peter

First, congratulations on becoming a dad! Second, that is a fantastic portrait of your boy; the smile, eyes and the soft lightning is very good. And it works well with the B/W. To me it looks very professional.

A technically question; how do you fire the flash off camera? Is it using a cable, another flash or pocket wizards? I've been playing around with the idea, but haven't really decided on a solution yet.

Most likely, he's using the Canon ST-E2 transmitter, which goes on the hot shoe. That's the same one I use, and it's about the only way to get off-shoe 580-EX II shots.

James L · Jun 23, 2009, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by harbinger75

...and it's about the only way to get off-shoe 580-EX II shots.

I haven't read the whole thread, but why wouldn't a PC sync cord work... or a hotshoe optical slave... or pocket wizards... or other radio triggers... etc?

mr. burns · 04:19 AM

my turn at studio stuff. not really my area of focus, but i thought it turned out well.

harbinger75 · Jun 24, 2009, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by James L

I haven't read the whole thread, but why wouldn't a PC sync cord work... or a hotshoe optical slave... or pocket wizards... or other radio triggers... etc?

I should have specified that it's the about the only way I'd do off-shoe shots with that flash. You can use other options, and the Canon wireless transmitter isn't the cheapest, but it's easy to set up, works flawlessly (in my use) and it's small and unobtrusive.

I didn't look very hard before I decided the ST-E2 was just a no-brainer for my shooting needs.

Jawbone54 · Jun 24, 2009, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by mr. burns

my turn at studio stuff. not really my area of focus, but i thought it turned out well.

I think it's pretty darn nice, really. I'm not the studio-type guy, but this one isn't quite so traditional.

Do you have a version without the vignette, or maybe less of a vignette?

mr. burns · Jun 24, 2009, 01:10 PM

here's one with less post crop. i don't want to take it out completely because it does a good job of burning in the shirt, which is a little too distracting without it.

and here's another

i don't normally take everything with a sepia-like tone to it but i just liked it for these.

IceEnclosure · Jun 24, 2009, 01:39 PM

Crazy storm forming on the beach yesterday:

- - e r i k - - · Jun 25, 2009, 06:52 AM

Wicked! Extreme lack of post processing for you though

harbinger75 · Jun 25, 2009, 10:27 AM

Very striking photo, Ice. And Erik, why does it have to be post-processed much? The only thing I'd do with that photo is add a bit of vibrance to punch the water and sand a bit.

IceEnclosure · Jun 25, 2009, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Wicked! Extreme lack of post processing for you though

Originally Posted by harbinger75

Very striking photo, Ice. And Erik, why does it have to be post-processed much? The only thing I'd do with that photo is add a bit of vibrance to punch the water and sand a bit.

Thanks dudes.

And he's implying that I typically use a lot of PP on my images.

harbinger75 · Jun 25, 2009, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

Thanks dudes.

And he's implying that I typically use a lot of PP on my images.

Aaaah, that slipped past my radar. Sorry about that, Erik.

Jawbone54 · Jun 25, 2009, 02:47 PM

Yeah, I love Ice's last image. I really like almost all of his stuff though. This one is really, really well composed.

mr. burns · Jun 30, 2009, 11:36 PM

did some panning shots at the boardwalk today.

my favorite.

IceEnclosure · Jul 1, 2009, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Yeah, I love Ice's last image. I really like almost all of his stuff though. This one is really, really well composed.

Thanks man!

Demonhood · Jul 1, 2009, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by mr. burns

well executed. panning shots are fun stuff. reminds me of this one i did awhile back:

boldqueen · Jul 1, 2009, 05:08 PM

ok, all you photo experts...I'm new to PP...and I have a brand shiny new copy of CS4 for my mac. I can't seem to find any free filters for mac tho'...they all seem to be for PC's.
Where would I find any? (And I'm talking genuinely free, not sketchy illegal download free).
Any help is appreciated! Thanks!

harbinger75 · Jul 1, 2009, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by boldqueen

ok, all you photo experts...I'm new to PP...and I have a brand shiny new copy of CS4 for my mac. I can't seem to find any free filters for mac tho'...they all seem to be for PC's.
Where would I find any? (And I'm talking genuinely free, not sketchy illegal download free).
Any help is appreciated! Thanks!

What filters are you looking for (as I open my trench coat, laden with cheap, Asian filter knock-offs)?

boldqueen · Jul 1, 2009, 05:35 PM

pretty much anything.
cheap asian filter knock offs included.

after blowing my wad on CS4, I don't have the cash for a nice onone package, but I find it hard to believe the mac community doesn't have most filters in freeware or shareware...

Thorzdad · Jul 1, 2009, 06:05 PM

What, specifically, do you want to do? Photoshop is pretty darn capable on its own, even without 3rd-party filters.

- - e r i k - - · Jul 1, 2009, 06:13 PM

Yeah. Anything you can do with 3rd party filters you can pretty much do with Photoshop alone.

harbinger75 · Jul 1, 2009, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Yeah. Anything you can do with 3rd party filters you can pretty much do with Photoshop alone.

Yup. The only third party filters I've seen used in practical use in years are the Alien Skins filters. Otherwise, you can pretty much make all your own effects in CS4.

Face Ache · Jul 1, 2009, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by boldqueen

ok, all you photo experts...I'm new to PP...and I have a brand shiny new copy of CS4 for my mac. I can't seem to find any free filters for mac tho'...they all seem to be for PC's.
Where would I find any? (And I'm talking genuinely free, not sketchy illegal download free).
Any help is appreciated! Thanks!

Filters?! FILTERS?!

<looks down nose at boldqueen>

We don't do filters here, dearie.

IceEnclosure · Jul 1, 2009, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by Face Ache

We don't do filters here, dearie.

Unless they're strapped to the front of our lenses. -_o

Here's a shot of a co-worker taken last night:

mattyb · Jul 2, 2009, 05:57 AM

OK smarty pants, how did you get that light streak effect but the people are in focus????

Phileas · Jul 2, 2009, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by mattyb

OK smarty pants, how did you get that light streak effect but the people are in focus????

Slow curtain, with a flash freezing the person. You can set most DSLRs to either flash at the beginning or the end of an exposure.

mattyb · Jul 2, 2009, 08:37 AM

And slow curtain means what exactly? Slow shutter speed?

ghporter · Jul 2, 2009, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by mattyb

And slow curtain means what exactly? Slow shutter speed?

Shutter speed technically means how long the shutter is open. "Slow curtain" means that the shutter opens and/or closes slowly.

harbinger75 · Jul 2, 2009, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

Shutter speed technically means how long the shutter is open. "Slow curtain" means that the shutter opens and/or closes slowly.

And, as Phileas said, you can set most DSLR cameras to flash towards the beginning of the shutter operation, or towards the end of its operation. It makes a big difference in how the photo looks.

Phileas · Jul 2, 2009, 12:30 PM

You can also play around with this by exposing for ambient light, then adding a flash manually. Filtering the flash can lead to fum results.

andi*pandi · Jul 2, 2009, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Demonhood

well executed. panning shots are fun stuff. reminds me of this one i did awhile back:

wonderful. Can I tell you how many shots I have done trying to get this effect.

Demonhood · Jul 2, 2009, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

wonderful. Can I tell you how many shots I have done trying to get this effect.

thanks.
yeah, i discovered how tricky it can be while shooting a bicycle race.
*CLICK*
{Looks at LCD} - Blurry
*ClICK*
{Looks at LCD} - I can't even tell what that is supposed to be.
*ClICK*
and on and on it goes.

panning with the subject at the exact right speed is tough.

paul w · Jul 2, 2009, 02:15 PM

Ooh I used to do those all the time - even when I shot film. Can't seem to find em though. It does take practice.

Cyclists in Amsterdam are fantastic subjects.

Demonhood · Jul 2, 2009, 05:12 PM

looks like the kid is wondering when mom will stop doing circles around that red-headed guy with the camera.

i love the sense of motion that these type of shots evoke.

one from the race mentioned above:

IceEnclosure · Jul 2, 2009, 06:04 PM

..and the guy portrait and b+w gravitron-thing shot by mr. burns I like, forgot to mention that.

Also, Demonhood, nice shot!

Phileas · Jul 2, 2009, 08:19 PM

At a recent soccer game. I only had the little Ricoh with me, no zoom, no nothing. Still, some nice shots IMO.

Scifience · Jul 3, 2009, 02:29 AM

Here's one from the other day, taken out a train window in rural Japan.

And this was back in May at Nelson Ledges State Park in Ohio (a really cool place, if you ever get a chance to visit).

mattyb · Jul 3, 2009, 04:43 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

Shutter speed technically means how long the shutter is open. "Slow curtain" means that the shutter opens and/or closes slowly.

Originally Posted by harbinger75

And, as Phileas said, you can set most DSLR cameras to flash towards the beginning of the shutter operation, or towards the end of its operation. It makes a big difference in how the photo looks.

Originally Posted by Phileas

You can also play around with this by exposing for ambient light, then adding a flash manually. Filtering the flash can lead to fum results.

Is this sort of wizardry easy to setup? I mean can I go from shooting something else to this setup relatively fast?

I'll be sitting down with the D40 manual this weekend, flash (SB-600) will come after the summer probably.

harbinger75 · Jul 3, 2009, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by mattyb

Is this sort of wizardry easy to setup? I mean can I go from shooting something else to this setup relatively fast?

I'll be sitting down with the D40 manual this weekend, flash (SB-600) will come after the summer probably.

Yup. Just read up on the manual, and setting the curtain as you wish will be easy. You'll have to experiment with flash settings and such, but that's the fun of creative photography!