[Laminar]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

No one's answered my question about where used cars come from.

A very large stork delivers them to two people that have kissed while lying down.

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

So in other words, anyone that buys a new car is someone that can't afford it? That applies to every single person on the planet?

The primary reason that we are in the mess that we are in now is because banks won't lend money. Understand this simple fact.

Damn those banks.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

So in other words, anyone that buys a new car is someone that can't afford it? That applies to every single person on the planet?

No, just to the vast majority of them. There are more cars in running condition on Earth than there are human beings to drive them. Given that fact, it makes very little sense to even be building new cars.

The primary reason that we are in the mess that we are in now is because banks won't lend money. Understand this simple fact.

No, the primary reason that we are in this mess is because people have become dependent on credit. Banks wouldn't need to lend money if people were making responsible purchasing decisions. Understand this simple fact.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

You do realize that what you just said makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, right?

You're also aware that just because a car has had a previous owner and been driven by someone other than you that it's still quite capable of taking you to work, right?

You did say that you're 'entitled' to a new car because you were willing to go into debt in order to get one when you could have gotten a perfectly serviceable used car for a price that you could actually afford. Even if you absolutely need to own a car, that does not mean that you absolutely need a brand new car. As I've already said the 'entitlement attitude' comes into play when people insist that they have to have something they don't: such as a new car, when a used car is probably a better option for them.

People are not ENTITLED to a new car. Therefore, the "entitlement attitude" doesn't come in to it. And what I said makes perfect sense. Where do all those used cars come from? From new cars. People buy new cars because they WANT to, not because they are ENTITLED to. And if so, WHO grants the ENTITLEMENT? The bank gives you the loan based on your ability to repay, not because of an entitlement.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

The primary reason that we are in the mess that we are in now is because banks won't lend money. Understand this simple fact.

No, because BEFORE THAT comes the actual problem: The credit crunch would NOT BE A PROBLEM if people weren't constantly buying on credit in the first place!

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

No, just to the vast majority of them. There are more cars in running condition on Earth than there are human beings to drive them. Given that fact, it makes very little sense to even be building new cars.



No, the primary reason that we are in this mess is because people have become dependent on credit. Banks wouldn't need to lend money if people were making responsible purchasing decisions. Understand this simple fact.

Dude, used cars will not last for eternity. So let's all stop making new cars. Ten or 15 years from now, where's all the used cars?

[Doofy]

Well, here's the reason why I don't buy new cars:

They're all bleedin' hideous.
Except the F430.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

The primary reason that we are in the mess that we are in now is because banks won't lend money.

And the reason they aren't is they're paranoid from lending out too much before.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

People are not ENTITLED to a new car. Therefore, the "entitlement attitude" doesn't come in to it. And what I said makes perfect sense. Where do all those used cars come from? From new cars. People buy new cars because they WANT to, not because they are ENTITLED to. And if so, WHO grants the ENTITLEMENT? The bank gives you the loan based on your ability to repay, not because of an entitlement.

People are not ENTITLED to social security and food stamps. Therefore, the "entitlement attitude" doesn't come in to it.

[Spheric Harlot]

What the hell are you arguing, ctt1wbw?

[Laminar]

That his Durango is a nice vehicle. I think.
He lost that argument, too.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

Dude, used cars will not last for eternity. So let's all stop making new cars. Ten or 15 years from now, where's all the used cars?

Again, if the whole market was slowed down, cars would have longer lifespans and be built to better standards - instead of being built as throwaway fashion trinkets.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

No, because BEFORE THAT comes the actual problem: The credit crunch would NOT BE A PROBLEM if people weren't constantly buying on credit in the first place!

People, most people, HAVE to buy on credit. I know for a fact that I couldn't have paid cash for my 240k house. Not many people can. In order for the economy to work, there has to be credit. Otherwise the economy slows down and grinds to a halt, like we are seeing today. If all banks stopped loaning money for everything, starting today, for the next 100 years, what do you think the housing and auto industry would look like in the future? There would be no houses and cars, because houses and cars won't last 100 years, therefore logic stands that there won't be any houses and cars to people to live in or drive with. New stuff has to be around to replace old stuff. It's a concept known as "first in first out". Ask anyone putting milk on the shelf. The older milk is put up front and the newer milk is put in back, so the older milk gets bought first, and doesn't spoil. Then it has to be thrown away before it is bought. That equals lost revenue, lost sales. Not a good thing in the economy.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Again, if the whole market was slowed down, cars would have longer lifespans and be built to better standards - instead of being built as throwaway fashion trinkets.

Okay, cars are labeled as "durable goods". They last. They are not disposable items like batteries and clothes.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Again, if the whole market was slowed down, cars would have longer lifespans and be built to better standards - instead of being built as throwaway fashion trinkets.

Essentially, isn't this the argument Japanese vs. American cars boils down to?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

There would be no houses and cars, because houses and cars won't last 100 years

My house is older than your country.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

What the hell are you arguing, ctt1wbw?

The economy is slowing down to a halt because the banking system is not lending money for big ticket items. Some of us are not rich enough to pay cash for everything, like some members of the forum. In order to the auto industry and the housing market to keep working, people have to purchase with loans and lines of credit. Most people here think that only the US auto industry is slowing down because they make garbage cars. The worldwide auto and housing industry is slowing down because of the credit freeze. Hell, call CNBC and ask any one of the commentators there, they'll tell you the same thing.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Essentially, isn't this the argument Japanese vs. American cars boils down to?

Maybe. I'd got a 30-year-old 911 in mind when I wrote that. :shrug:

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

People, most people, HAVE to buy on credit. I know for a fact that I couldn't have paid cash for my 240k house.

Well duh. But you didn't buy a 240K house straight out of college high school. And no one's required to live in place that expensive. It is entirely possible, with a few sacrifices, to pay cash for a house. But people feel that they're entitled to everything they want right NOW, so they turn to credit.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

My house is older than your country.

What's the housing market in the country you live in? Is it booming, new houses going up, providing jobs, or is it stagnant?

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Maybe. I'd got a 30-year-old 911 in mind when I wrote that. :shrug:

German too, but they don't dominate the American market nearly as much as, say, Europe.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

People, most people, HAVE to buy on credit. I know for a fact that I couldn't have paid cash for my 240k house.

Houses are, indeed, a different matter.

Over here, houses are either rented, or bought on extremely long-term and extremely stable state-backed loans.


Cars tend to be bought as they can actually be afforded, which means mostly used, or they are leased. Nobody HAS to buy a car on credit. Nobody!

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Well duh. But you didn't buy a 240K house straight out of college high school. And no one's required to live in place that expensive. It is entirely possible, with a few sacrifices, to pay cash for a house. But people feel that they're entitled to everything they want right NOW, so they turn to credit.

So a someone straight out of high school has credible comments somewhere? I think you need to grow and experience the world first. And I was required to live where I lived. It's called the Navy, I was married, and you can't have you freakin family live with you on the ship. And 240k is about the average price of a 4 bedroom house in the Hampton Roads area. There's other people here that live there, too, and they'll tell you. You can live cheaper, IF you want to hear gunshots near the shipyard in Newport News or Portsmouth. I prefer not to.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

German too, but they don't dominate the American market nearly as much as, say, Europe.

Why not? Just pay cash for a 911 Carrera, everyone else does.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Well duh. But you didn't buy a 240K house straight out of college high school. And no one's required to live in place that expensive. It is entirely possible, with a few sacrifices, to pay cash for a house. But people feel that they're entitled to everything they want right NOW, so they turn to credit.

Great. Give me 240k cash, since someone straight out of high school has all the damned answers.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

Why not? Just pay cash for a 911 Carrera, everyone else does.

Again, no one needs a 911 Carrera.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

So a someone straight out of high school has credible comments somewhere?

Huh?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

What's the housing market in the country you live in? Is it booming, new houses going up, providing jobs, or is it stagnant?

It's in a slight decline at the moment, in general. In my area, it's increasing by about 1% a year. It's about where it should be after the bubble of silliness in the last few years.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Again, no one needs a 911 Carrera.

Well, lots of people apparantly want one, otherwise there would be no market for them. Once again, no one NEEDS to get permission from others. If someone wants it, they'll get it.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

It's in a slight decline at the moment, in general. In my area, it's increasing by about 1% a year. It's about where it should be after the bubble of silliness in the last few years.

I'm sure I read it before, but what country do you live in? It's hard to follow all these people here.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

Well, lots of people apparantly want one, otherwise there would be no market for them. If someone wants it, they'll get it.

Not if they don't have the resources they won't.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

i'm sure i read it before, but what country do you live in? It's hard to follow all these people here.

UK.
Anti-caps prevention thingie text

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Huh?

You talk and act like you got the answers. Let me tell you, you don't have all the answers. Talking about how it's easy to save money for a 240k house... Give me a fcuking break, dude.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

uk.

I never made it there. The closest I ever came was seeing the White Cliffs of Dover while standing on the flight deck of the USS Wasp on my way to freezing cold Norway.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw

You talk and act like you got the answers. Let me tell you, you don't have all the answers. Talking about how it's easy to save money for a 240k house... Give me a fcuking break, dude.

Originally Posted by Laminar 

It is entirely possible, with a few sacrifices, to pay cash for a house.

I think this qualifies as a reading comprehension failure.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

Okay, now read carefully... VERY FEW people have the money to pay cash for a house or a car.

That's because people don't save money to make big purchases when it's so easy to get a loan. If it takes 5 years to pay off a car, why not save up the money for 5 years in advance of making the purchase rather than pay the money back after the purchase? Has the advantage of you not being in debt and over those 5 years you're *earning* interest rather than *paying* it.

Of course, it's a little different for houses.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

There's almost no reason whatsoever for anyone to ever buy a new car.

Actually, this raises an interesting problem with this theory. Right now, it's easy to buy a good, used car because so many people are constantly buying new cars. If people were to stop buying new cars in favor of used cars, the used car market will start to dry up and prices for used cars will go up.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

You talk and act like you got the answers. Let me tell you, you don't have all the answers. Talking about how it's easy to save money for a 240k house... Give me a fcuking break, dude.

Very few people *need* a 240K house.

[TETENAL]

For a house taking a credit makes sense, because if you saved up everything for it before you purchase, you'd have to pay rent all that time. You can just as well own the house and pay interests instead.

Leasing a car can be advantageous for a business for accounting and tax reasons, and that's where a good share of used cars come from by the way. For an individual the benefit to buy a car on credit is lower (Polt). If you need to take a credit to purchase a sports car, I would argue you are living above your means.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

For a house taking a credit makes sense

True, particularly since houses can increase in value whilst you pay off your loan.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Very few people *need* a 240K house.

Like I said before, that's average in the Hampton Roads area, unless you like gunshots. I could stuff my family in a one bedroom house just to please you people... but I would rather not. I *want* a nice house without gunshots.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Actually, this raises an interesting problem with this theory. Right now, it's easy to buy a good, used car because so many people are constantly buying new cars. If people were to stop buying new cars in favor of used cars, the used car market will start to dry up and prices for used cars will go up.

That's the point I'm trying to make.

[Laminar]

Poorly.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

That's the point I'm trying to make.

It's kind of a useless point, though, since all it means is that people will either drive older cars, or just save up longer before buying a "new" used car.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

Why not? Just pay cash for a 911 Carrera, everyone else does.

If you're buying a 911 on credit, you either have a *very* good tax reason for doing so, or you're a complete moron.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

So a someone straight out of high school has credible comments somewhere? I think you need to grow and experience the world first.

Experience is one thing.

Being able to follow or pursue a coherent, logical argument takes intelligence.

Your arrogance qualifies as a direct insult - to your own intelligence.

[Art Vandelay]

I think I have a headache now.

[Art Vandelay]

Chrysler rules out sale of individual brands

This is a bit of a non-denial from the earlier reports. In the earlier reports, Cerberus is in talks to sell off parts of Chrysler. In this report, LaSorda states that Chrysler is not selling off its brands. Then LaSorda states that any sales would have to be up to Cerberus. So, nothing to refute that Cerberus is in talks to sell off Chrysler in pieces.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Experience is one thing.

Being able to follow or pursue a coherent, logical argument takes intelligence.

Your arrogance qualifies as a direct insult - to your own intelligence.

Well, it's easier to talk instead type for me. And arrogance??? Someone fresh out of high school who thinks it's easy to save up for a house and pay cash? Please. That's arrogance. I never told someone twice my age out of high school that it is easy, oh it's so easy, to save money for a house for cash. Especially someone who just retired living on enlisted pay. All the while listening to you people say that someone doesn't *need* a 240k house... or maybe I'm just *entitled* to it. But I have yet to hear a logical answer as to whom *grants* the *entitlement*... Get out of Iowa and see the world, understand the way it works, understand how other people in other countries live, meet them, have dinner with them, try to speak their language even if it is only a few words. Make an effort. Don't think that you have all the answers because you can hide behind the anonymity of the interwebs. Life is tougher and harder than you might think.

[Spheric Harlot]

Tell me about it, why don't you.

BTW, I drive a used car.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

Well, it's easier to talk instead type for me. And arrogance??? Someone fresh out of high school who thinks it's easy to save up for a house and pay cash? Please. That's arrogance. I never told someone twice my age out of high school that it is easy, oh it's so easy, to save money for a house for cash. Especially someone who just retired living on enlisted pay. All the while listening to you people say that someone doesn't *need* a 240k house... or maybe I'm just *entitled* to it. But I have yet to hear a logical answer as to whom *grants* the *entitlement*... Get out of Iowa and see the world, understand the way it works, understand how other people in other countries live, meet them, have dinner with them, try to speak their language even if it is only a few words. Make an effort. Don't think that you have all the answers because you can hide behind the anonymity of the interwebs. Life is tougher and harder than you might think.

hahahaha. There are so many failures in this post that I don't even know where to start.