[BTP]

Originally posted by dfiler:
42 will allow you to preserve multi-channel surround while making everything fit on a DVD-5... give it a shot.

I'll keep an eye on 42, but I am unsure of what you mean. Could you expand on that? Are you saying that you can start with a DVD-9 and convert to lower quality or remove some files and fit on DVD-5? Does 42 do this? I'll re-read the notes of 42 to see if I missed somethine.

[WiseWeasel]

Yes, well, 42 will allow you to reencode the mpeg2 video at a lower bitrate, with subtitles burnt in, if you so desire, so that you can then import it into DVD Studio Pro or Sizzle and master your DVD-5 disc. The quality comes out beautiful, but the process can take upwards of 35 hours (as on my G4/466!), or as little as 4 hours (for a dual 1.25 GHz) depending on your machine. Sometimes, the ac3 audio track is not extracted, but you can just use some other ripping software to then get the audio streams you want. Forty-Two's main advantage is that it rips the video track at the correct framerate, so that it makes in-sync movies, unlike most dvd video conversion tools for the Mac. The audio track will rip just fine with a great number of software, and can be resampled at a lower bitrate using Apack (part of the DVDSP suite) or something.

[WiseWeasel]

OK, a new version of Forty-Two is out to address the missing ac3 audio problem. I put up a mirror here: http://homepage.mac.com/wiseweasel/42-fixed.dmg. The original link is here: http://homepage.mac.com/kaicherry/42-fixed.dmg. If a few of you guys can spare some bandwidth or can afford to lose an idisk for the month, you could mirror this software, and then we could post to versiontracker, and the masses will get a taste of dvd heaven...

[JLL]

Originally posted by WiseWeasel:
OK, a new version of Forty-Two is out to address the missing ac3 audio problem. I put up a mirror here: http://homepage.mac.com/wiseweasel/42-fixed.dmg. The original link is here: http://homepage.mac.com/kaicherry/42-fixed.dmg. If a few of you guys can spare some bandwidth or can afford to lose an idisk for the month, you could mirror this software, and then we could post to versiontracker, and the masses will get a taste of dvd heaven...

OK, you can get it at:

http://lunddal.dk/software/42-fixed.dmg

[WiseWeasel]

Thanks for that, JLL. 1 or 2 more, and we will be ready for VT's flood...

[WiseWeasel]

There is a new and drastically improved version coming very soon, so we can hold off on the mirrors until then. Hopefully, the next release will really be ready for primetime, with a streamlined interface (thanks dfiler), and nicer installer, etc.

[KidRed]

wiseweasel- did kai say when the new version was coming? I get the preview ripped fine, but like a lot of others I get the 'file not found' error when trying to continue the rip. I'm hoping this new version addresses that issue so I can burn a movie.

[Eug]

I'm not going to bother with the fixed-42 for now, since others at vcdhelp are still reporting probs at the mux step.

[WiseWeasel]

Kai says the new version will be ready for the testers within the next 24 hours or so, and if it goes well, it will be released soon after that. The main differences are a single window interface, complete installer, and a slider to control the quantizer level, that will determine how much bitrate is sacrificed for a given quality. Also, more advanced selection of tracks and titles is built in.
Sometimes, the preview will not play, but you can continue to rip the movie, and it will do it ok. It will end up as the biles.mpv stream in your temp folder. You can then combine that with audio streams that you rip separately to master a dvd. The preview should be named testmovie.mpg and located in your home directory. Try playing this file with VLC if you want to check it before proceeding with the rip.
The 'fixed' version only addresses the missing ac3 issue, but if you can, I would definitely wait until the next version is out. The current one does work, but the next one will be a lot more trouble-free.

[Eug]

Originally posted by WiseWeasel:
The 'fixed' version only addresses the missing ac3 issue, but if you can, I would definitely wait until the next version is out. The current one does work, but the next one will be a lot more trouble-free.

Yeah, the only disc I tried had the missing ac3 issue and of course Kai looked into it as others reported the same thing. It's supposed to be fixed but it seems others may still have similar problems.

Given the very long encode times even with a 1 GHz G4, I will wait until the new easier version comes out.

[KidRed]

Anyone find a fix for the 'file not found' after preview is finished and you hit continue? I haven't been able to rip a movie yet.

[LeeG]

Originally posted by KidRed:
Anyone find a fix for the 'file not found' after preview is finished and you hit continue? I haven't been able to rip a movie yet.

I have never been able to see the 'preview' file, I just click "GO ON" and the rest of the movie continues to rip - and the output looks great (8 hours later)...a lot of these issues are supposedly being fixed. If you can see the utility of this app, and how far ahead of everything else we have it is - SUPPORT THE DEVELOPER...

Lee

[ARENA]

Those 8 hours are on the 867 TiBook?

...How much time does it (roughly) take to encode a 2 hours movie on a Ghz TiBook?
Eug?

Originally posted by LeeG:
I have never been able to see the 'preview' file, I just click "GO ON" and the rest of the movie continues to rip - and the output looks great (8 hours later)...a lot of these issues are supposedly being fixed. If you can see the utility of this app, and how far ahead of everything else we have it is - SUPPORT THE DEVELOPER...

Lee

[BTP]

Long version:

Lee, I couldn't agree more about supporting the developer. I made a donation more to show my appreciation, than as payment for the app.

I hope that people that use this and benefit from their hard work will make a contribution to these guys. They are giving the Mac community an excellent application and I would hope that people will show their gratitude with a donation of some kind.

I understand if some people want to wait until they get the next version, or a version that works for them before they do. To many it is obvious, but some need a reminder that developers need a reason to write software. In this case, these guys won't get rich, but if people donate *something*, it shows the developers that people value their work.

Short version:

Support the developers.

[LeeG]

Yeah, I donated to support FUTURE development, not as payment for the app - people will see what this app has done for the mac video community, I see the future, and it is 42. As such I wanted to support continued refinement of the app.

ARENA - as for the encode times, those are actually on the G4/500 - thats my tower, and my main machine, I KNOW the 867 is a much faster machine, but its mostly my wife's 'book, and I didn't want to start installing all sorts of codecs/mpg apps/Divx files/etc until 42 was really nicely packaged. (But yes, I am ITCHING to encode on the 867!!)

My encode times for mDVD (middle quality DIVX) encodes is about 6-8 hours on the G4/500/AGP, leaving a little over a gig file (roughly 1.2Gb), the quality is GREAT, but not a big diff in file size from the best quality - this is supposed to be fixed in an upcoming version.

Looking forward to the next rev...
Lee

[benbargagliotti]

so when 42 gets done exporting from DVD to DVD, what all do I have to burn on the DVD-r to get it play on my DVD player? thanks

ben

[WiseWeasel]

When it gets done, you should theoretically get a movie.mpg file, which is a muxed m2v video stream and ac3 audio stream. You can use the free too Sizzle (search versiontracker.com for it) to turn this mpg into a dvd image, that Toast or Disk Copy can burn. If you got an error at the point where it's supposed to find and ac3, and there is none, then you can use OSeX in MacOSX, or DVD Extractor in MacOS 9.x or earlier to extract the ac3 audio manually. Then you import the ac3 stream you want and the biles.mpv file in the temp folder you chose into Sizzle or DVD Studio Pro to make a DVD.

[TheIceMan]

LeeG & WiseWeasel
You guys seem knowledgeable about this stuff. Please forgive me if I sound confused. I have been reading and trying to understand all this encoding/decoding/ripping stuff. I have never done anything like this before, so can someone explain to me, in layman's terms (in everyday language), these things:

1] How do I "rip" DVDs and other videos to play on my computer? There seems to be many to choose from like 3ivx Delta 4, Cellulo, Divx 5.0, EasyDivx, ffmpegX, MacDivXCreator, MencoderOSX, MPLayerOSX, VideoLAN Client 0.4.6., and "42" (this new app.) Which one is the best for try to duplicate/copy/rip DVDs?

2] How is DivX related? Would converting these DVDs involve converting them into "DivX" formats? If so would the apps. mentioned in #1 do this for me? Btw, I have a combo drive & no superdrive. Running 10.2.3 on a PowerBook 667 Mhz G4.

Thanks. Man, my head hurts just trying to understand this. Hehehe.

[Eug]

Originally posted by ARENA:
Those 8 hours are on the 867 TiBook?

...How much time does it (roughly) take to encode a 2 hours movie on a Ghz TiBook?
Eug?

I dunno how long actually. Many many hours, but I wasn't home when it finished. And my sound didn't work anyway.

As for donations, I'll probably donate but I have to say I will wait until I see a finished product that works. Actually my intent for donating is really only because I appreciate the work that was put into it and not because I'd actually consider using it much. I don't use MPEG-4, and for DVD-9 --> DVD-R, I already have a very good way of doing this which is MUCH easier. (I have a region free/CGMS free/Macrovision free DVD player, as well as a set top real-time DVD recorder.)

These guys are progressing well though. I look forward to the release of 42 1.0.

[kingskel]

Yo Ice:

Part of your confusion is the fact that your list consists of players, converters, and codecs.


Format converters (eg. DVD ".vob" movie file to Divx or MPG format):

EasyDivx, ffmpegX, MacDivXCreator, MencoderOSX, 42



Movie (DVD, Divx, etc. ) Players:

Cellulo, MPlayer, VideoLan


Codecs:

3ivx, Divx 5.0, EasyDivx


I too was frustrated by too many options and not enough info (especially as some apps work against each other), and requested a Mac/easy way to convert. I tried various apps, but all had sync problems (the video looked and sounded great, but the timing of the sound was off). 42 looks to be the solution to our problems. Drop your DVD on the 42 main window and choose whether you want a DVD or Divx movie. A Divx movie will be smaller (42 lets you choose the quality - best quality is biggest size) while DVD will take up a whole DVD and play on a DVD box. No DVD will be Divx - Divx is a movie codec (format). I am sure someone here can explain it better than myself. Ultimately, if I were you I would stick with the "one-app" approach and wait for the new version of 42. The conversion time for these things is too long (at least 6 hours) for you to waste your time with something that may or may not work. Hope this helps.

[LeeG]

Ice-

A bit long-winded, but this should clear things up, also see above post...

I too was confused by all this stuff until about a month ago. In fact, I tried earlier to do this stuff, and was able to, but the time, effort, and final result was NOT WORTH it. At all.

I had to use an OS9 program (DVDExtractor) to get the data off of my DVD (granted theres OSEx now which does it as well). DVDs are encrypted, so you need a program that can decrypt the CSS code, and convert to a non-encrypted audio/video file. When I did this, the common complaint (at least on macs) was that the audio file and the video file did not 'sync'. which means as the movie plays, the mouths and the voices don't match up - and it gets worse the farther through the movie you are. Also just decrypting the movie left me with a 4+ Gb file.

So, then the issue of codecs comes into play. The full video/audio streams can be compressed with a codec (like ripping an MP3, but of video) DiVX, 3ivx are CODECS. So using these codecs and tweaking the amount of data (video quality, converting 5 channel sound to 2channel MP3, etc) you can dramatically reduce the size of the files. These can then be transferred to CDR for VCD (video CD) or SVCD (Super...) which can be read my many standalone DVD players, or simply viewed on the computer using a player that uses the appropriate codec (dvix, 3ivx, etc). Quicktime player is not the most amenable to these things.

You can also transfer directly to a DVD-R (more on this later), which can play in a standalone.

Quicktime cannot play DIVX with AC3 audio, and some other DIVX encodes require the file be "fixed" (using divxdoctor or the divx fixer that comes with the DiVX5 codec) before QT plays the audio - I do not like QT Player for playing back DVD video files.

I have had a lot of success with Mplayer for OSX, and others report success with VLC (have not tried it), as PLAYERS.

Wow, you might say, this is a huge PITA. Well, yes it is. Here's where 42 has shown me the light. I am not a big terminal user, nor do I really want to be, I also don't want to monkey with tweaking video settings to get "the perfect rip". I LOVE that OSX has this power, and that folks are making use of it - but for me I use a mac -cause its a no brainer. This was not the case with DVD ripping until recently.

42 is by no means feature complete or ready-for-prime-time, but it shows us that you CAN have mac-like drag-and-drop ease of use for this stuff.

I spent a little time getting 42 installed (you need to install some free unix tools that the program uses to DECRYPT the DVD, and ENCODE the video) These tools are not built into the program since they "crack the CSS code" and COULD open the program up to legal issues, though I believe a CSS court case recently was won by the good guys - and I will openly admit I take DVDs I OWN and rip them to my HD - why? Cause I can store a dozen movies on my tiBook and not carry a single DVD with me - quite nice. I digress.

Anyway, once installed, I dragged a DVD to the window, clicked hi-quality DIVX, and about 8 hours later had a 1.25Gb file on my drive that in mPlayer would play full screen nearDVD quality - and it looked GREAT. Now granted 42 is not quite polished yet, but YEARS ahead of the previous tools.

As for what to conver things to, it really depends what you want to do with them. For me, I plan to leave the files on my HD, and play with a player, so as far as quality/file size, DiVX works great for me. Other people really want things to fit on a CDR or DVD-R for a standalone, so VCD/SVCD/DVD is better for them, thats up to you.

Finally one last word on DVD - many commercial DVDs are DVD-9 (around 9Gb i think, dual layer) The only DVD-R you can use in a superdrive is DVD-5 (4.7Gb) - so how does this work? Programs such as 42, when you select DVD as output, downsample the larger DVD to fit onto a DVD-R, of course you lose some quality, but many times it just means removing DVD extras, additional languages etc.

All this being said, do as I do if you really like a movie - BUY IT. I feel the studios should be paid for great movies, and I have not seen a 'ripping' method that produces a standalone-playable DVD with the fit and finish of a studio release (chapters, options, extras, etc)...

Hope this helps...


Lee

[TheIceMan]

kingskel & LeeG
Thanks for the detailed explanation. Although I must admit I am still a little lost, but BOTH of your feedbacks were VERY helpful. Thanks again guys. I will definitely give 42 a try. Ok let's see if I understand you guys correctly:

1] If I want to convert a DVD into a DivX, then I can use programs like EasyDivx, ffmpegX, MacDivXCreator, MencoderOSX, or 42.

2] Once I "convert" these, I would need a player to play these Divx movies. So I would use players like Cellulo, MPlayer, or VideoLan.

3] Ok, I think I understand #1 & #2, but where does "codec" and 3ivx, Divx 5.0, & EasyDivx fit? I understand that codecs reduces the size of the file and this makes it easier to transfer to CDR (as VCDs or SVCDs) or transferred to DVD-Rs. But when would I use 3ivx, Divx 5.0, or EasyDivx?

Thanks again.

[LeeG]

I look at codecs conceptually as a way of coverting image formats, like JPEG to TIFF for example. More closely like MP3, where a compression technology is applied to music files to shrink the size yet maintain high quality.

(From what I can gather) the DiVX and 3iVX codecs are "plug-ins" for quicktime (though other players use them as well), the programs you use to rip to divx encode using one of these codecs (which codec based on program - I think). You're geting it, think in terms of MP3s on the net - An MP3 is a shrunken version that you can play back with a PLAYER. A DVIX or VCD is similar, compressed, and needs a player to view.

Just as there are different MP3 encoding engines there are different DIVX engines (DIVX5 and 3vix), but both make a DIVX movie - make sense? not so much to me either...


Lee

[Neo.cmg]

Originally posted by TheIceMan:
kingskel & LeeG
Thanks for the detailed explanation. Although I must admit I am still a little lost, but BOTH of your feedbacks were VERY helpful. Thanks again guys. I will definitely give 42 a try. Ok let's see if I understand you guys correctly:

1] If I want to convert a DVD into a DivX, then I can use programs like EasyDivx, ffmpegX, MacDivXCreator, MencoderOSX, or 42.

2] Once I "convert" these, I would need a player to play these Divx movies. So I would use players like Cellulo, MPlayer, or VideoLan.

3] Ok, I think I understand #1 & #2, but where does "codec" and 3ivx, Divx 5.0, & EasyDivx fit? I understand that codecs reduces the size of the file and this makes it easier to transfer to CDR (as VCDs or SVCDs) or transferred to DVD-Rs. But when would I use 3ivx, Divx 5.0, or EasyDivx?

Thanks again.

IceMan,

You've just about got it. I think you are missing one step, though. The first thing that needs to occur is decryption of the DVD. As previously mentioned, the video and audio on the DVD is encrypted (I'm wondering if the decryption algorithms that are being widely used among the various programs on different platforms are using that which was given to the Linux open source community via the fellow who was recently sued for violating the DMCA and lost). Anyway, this part of the process is analogous to taking the uncompressed AIFF file from a music CD. If you've ever done this, you know that this AIFF file is on the order of 40MB per song on the CD.

In the next step you compress this decrypted video/audio file which is on the order of 4-5GB (read it's quite large), depending on the DVD of course. So these various codecs you have heard of do pretty much the same thing--they take this very large file and strip it/compress it to a more manageable file size, usually reducing it's size by about 75%. This in turn, is analogous to taking your AIFF file on the music CD and converting it to an mp3 file as was also mentioned earlier. Finally, you're left with a file on the order of 1.2GB containing the video/audio that is somewhat comparable to the original mpeg2/ac3 data. You can't tell too much difference between the original and the new file(s), just like the quality of an mp3 compared to that on the audio CD.

This program, 42, will take care of all this decrypting, stripping, and compressing with pretty much just one click; whereas, previously these few steps took a bit more setting up and knowledge of UNIX commands to control the various steps. Additionally, the end result on the Mac platform was not as desirable because the audio got out of sync with the video, and this progressively worsened as the file size became larger. This doesn't seem to be the case with this new program--another advantage.

Now I have a couple of questions out there for a few of you more knowledgeable persons on the subject. Why is the DivX format being utilized in such a mac-oriented program, which I have been lead to believe was Microsoft's implementation of mpeg-4, rather than QuickTime's native standard mpeg-4? Also, why isn't the ac3 audio being converted to ac4 (another QuickTime native standard), rather than mp3? I would imagine that there might be a slight improvement in resulting file sizes and/or quality. Finally, after reading this thread I was under the assumption that this new version of 42 would be posted very soon, anyone have an update when this will be available?

Thanks,


Neo.cmg

[TheIceMan]

Neo.cmg & LeeG
I think I got it now. Thank you for taking the time to explain things. Many thanks.

P.S. Just imagine you guys trying to walk me through things BEFORE this 42 app. Hehehe.

[Hozie]

Ice:

Just a small conceptual framework for you to use when dealing with this stuff (although 42 has the promise to make the following explanation superfluous):

Think of the whole process in steps:

1) Take the data from the DVD and transfer it to your harddrive. This is what we call 'ripping'. It involves decryption issues as mentioned above.
2) Use the data ripped from the DVD to create a watchable movie by converting it to a format that is small and can be read from the HD (DivX) or large and can be played by home DVD's (DVD-5).
3) Do this by encoding the raw data ripped from the DVD and pass it though a 'codec' (coder-decoder) , which is basically an algorithm that processes the raw data. Often, video and audio are processed individually (by different programs) and the re-joined by using yet another program. The way this is done is that you use an application that passes the data through the codec and rebuilds the output into a file. This is why you can use a single 'encoding' app with a multitude of codecs, as it just uses a different algorithm for treating the data. The same goes for the audio. Examples of video codecs are DivX in all its flavors and quicktime's mpeg-4. Examples of audio codecs are .wav, .mp3, .wma (god forbid).
5) Use the processed data in a player to view the movie.

So basically, if you went through the traditional process pre-42, it'd take you quite a bit of effort and dedication to get your movie from a DVD to another format, keeping in mind that things might have gone wrong at any step of the way.

The only disadvantage to 42 is that you lack all the advanced options that the above process and apps offer. The good news is that 90% of the users don't understand those options (me included) and don't use them.

[[APi]TheMan]

Does 42 have a problem ripping with the options "Use Subtitle Stream" and "Use Language Stream"?

I am trying to rip Brotherhood of the Wolf right now as a low-quality DivX with none of those options checked (As I'd like the movie in it's original language, French, with English subtitles) but I recall having problems with those options before during the encode.

[TheIceMan]

Hozie
Thanks for taking the time to break it down into steps. Yes, I now understand the concept and steps involved in "ripping" a DVD to "DivX". WooHoo!! You guys have been great teachers. Your humble student thanks you.

*SIGH* So much out there for me to learn. Ah, such is life.

[[APi]TheMan]

Just successfully ripped Brotherhood of the Wolf on low quality DivX and got a 1.05 gig file... Will higher quality settings take up more disk space, I can't imagine a file larger than that... eww. And I bet it'd take twice as long!

Took about 33 hours on my poor Pismo 400 mhz (768 RAM, 10.2.3).

[[APi]TheMan]

Originally posted by [APi]TheMan:
Just successfully ripped Brotherhood of the Wolf on low quality DivX and got a 1.05 gig file... Will higher quality settings take up more disk space, I can't imagine a file larger than that... eww. And I bet it'd take twice as long!

Took about 33 hours on my poor Pismo 400 mhz (768 RAM, 10.2.3).

I ripped a Mid quality DivX of the same DVD and it took 14 hours. The first time I ripped and it took 33 hours, I noticed that some instance of mplayer was taking quite a bit of CPU for who knows what reason, so that's why it took so long the first time... oops.

The new Mid quality is 1.14 gigs... not bad. But still those PC guys can get theirs down to 800 or so.

[pdot]

version 1 is out on versiontracker

[LeeG]

and it is smooth...

[Neo.cmg]

Originally posted by LeeG:
and it is smooth...

I downloaded and ran both installers in order, but all of the selections in the Output Format are greyed out. Any suggestions?

[BTP]

Yep.

Read the docs. I am being serious. Read the docs. If you do, you will see what to do. This is something the programmers made so people would read the docs.

[TheIceMan]

EDITED: Ok, It finally worked!! I downloaded the latest version today of MPLayer OSX 1.1 and it plays the movie WITH sound. WOOHOO!!

----This was posted around 12:40PM earlier----
I installed 42, ran 42, chose "DivX CD" as the output format, and "ripped" Top Gun in 9 hours. The test clip of Top Gun ran fine when 42 was encoding the movie. The video and audio were in sync (voice matched the action).

However, now that I have the full-length movie, QuickTime plays it with NO sound (because it doen't like AVI files, I remember).

What is the correct way to use 42 to rip DVD -> DivX? I'm sure there's an easier and correct way. I believe I followed the READ me instructions. I must have missed something. I saw that mPlayer was included in the files that came with the 42 downloads. But I couldn't get mPlayer to work. I also tried downloading mPlayer separately and also downloaded the mPlayer binary. Still couldn't get it to work.

I am going crazy. What am I doing wrong? I'm probably making things more difficult than they should be.

[EDITED:] WiseWeasel Thanks for the update. That would explain why I was having so much trouble.

[WiseWeasel]

Actually, in the 1.0 release, there is an interface bug, by which the 'Divx CD' and 'qDVD' options are reversed, and the qDVD option keeps AC3 audio from the DVD, which won't play in QuickTime. Try the qDVD option in the 1.0 release to get what you want. You can use mplayer or VLC to play your qDVD file, more luck with VideoLAN Client...

[[APi]TheMan]

forty-two 1.0 is the first version where the testmovie.avi has actually appeared in my home directory like it's supposed to... wow.

forty-two is pretty darn smooth. I'll be thinking about donating in a few days here.

[Neo.cmg]

I've downloaded and installed forty-two; however, it seems to hang on Encoding Video (several hours). On the bottom it remains as '0 frames of video...' I haven't found a test file anywhere. Is this normal, do I just have to keep waiting?

[threestain]

but how long does it take?

I've tried a few but slept whilst on! I got Swingers (92 mins ish at near DVD - 1.0 GB) How long do people think?

[JB72]

I wish forty two would work for me. In never does though. All I get when I get is "welcome" with a never ending stripey horizontal bar.

[version]

Is 42 still around? I've tried all the links and searchign for it, but still no joy.
Any pointers would be great.

cheers
-version

[version]

it's cool, i think i've found it.

[legacyb4]

It seems that 42 is nowhere to be found through "normal" search methods...

Any suggestions?

Originally posted by version:
it's cool, i think i've found it.

[Lew]

http://www.versiontracker.com/mp/new...arch=forty+two

[Lew]

Download the full version from here

[the_glassman]

It all makes sense now!