[smacintush]

C'mon, fess up. It's ok, were all geeks here.

I have played off and on for about 23 years now.

I got a D&D Expert box set when I was 12 which I immediately passed up and went right to AD&D. I played through 2nd edition, took a long hiatus and started again about 1 1/2 years before 3rd edition came out. I actually went to GenCon when the Player's Handbook came out, I even got it signed by most anyone who helped create it. (all but the most important signature…of course)



I'll probably play the upcoming 4th edition as well. Anyone else?

[Jawbone54]

My parents wouldn't let me play when I was young. Something about new age, Satanism, and such.

[starman]

How do you find people to play with? Everyone I know just wants to play WoW.

[smacintush]

The people I play with I've played with for about 5 years now. Lucky for me, the one couple is really put-off by the whole pay to play thing and another guy just doesn't get into computers all that much.

Then there's my wife, she could care less about WoW.

The only one of us that played Wow is me, and I'm long over that.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

My parents wouldn't let me play when I was young. Something about new age, Satanism, and such.

That's a shame.

The couple that plays with us, her parents are what I would call pretty devout Christian and they had a real problem with her and her husband "messing around" with D&D. Then her 60-something year-old dad sat in and watched us one day. By the next week he had rolled a character and became a regular player for a while.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

That's a shame.

The couple that plays with us, her parents are what I would call pretty devout Christian and they had a real problem with her and her husband "messing around" with D&D. Then her 60-something year-old dad sat in and watched us one day. By the next week he had rolled a character and became a regular player for a while.

Yeah, I think it had something to do with the box covers. Dragons, wizards, fire, and such.

[elyzabennet]

I played when I was a kid. I started rather young. I think I was seven maybe eight and I played for about five years. My brother was the one who got into it, and as his little sister I was around to play with, I don't even think that I had a choice . He was the DM, and eventually we had several close friends playing, but I don't think that he played by all the rules - I think it was more of a case of pick and choose. But we had a blast playing.

[olePigeon]

I hate 4th edition. Core rules books you buy, then the "premium content" is online and you pay $15/month to access it. You've gotta be f**king kidding me. 4th Edition also renders any investment in 3.0 and 3.5 books useless, as the rules aren't compatible.

[Shaddim]

I still play but not as often, maybe once /month now. Our main gaming group used to number between 8-10, now we're fortunate if we can wrangle 5 or 6 for a game. A lot changed over the years and we lost several people to families and obligations. One of our main problems is that I don't like being DM all the time, we have one other person who can but his wife won't let him out of her sight very often.

We don't play 3rd or 4th edition, however. Over the years we wrote our own rules, they're largely a 1st and 2nd edition hybrid along with different ideas we adapted. The world we made is so large and detailed I can't imagine ever converting it to a newer system. Not that we would, WoC seems to have botched the game, from what I can tell.

[Chuckit]

Despite basically being a huge geek my entire life, I have never once played Dungeons & Dragons. I watched the movie for Thora Birch, though, and on that basis I have to say Dungeons & Dragons sucks.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

I hate 4th edition. Core rules books you buy, then the "premium content" is online and you pay $15/month to access it. You've gotta be f**king kidding me. 4th Edition also renders any investment in 3.0 and 3.5 books useless, as the rules aren't compatible.

From what I've read, most of what they are doing 4th edition seems to be for the better.

I like 3E but it still has some glaring flaws and if WoTC can do what they are trying to do 4E should be awesome…theoretically.

They did release 3.5 too soon, they have admitted that if they had known they were going to be bringing 4E now they wouldn't have even messed with 3.5. Hindsight and all.

A lot of people seem to get all bent out of shape over the release of new systems but you know, WoTC isn't going to come and take our 3E books or anything. We can still use what we like.

It's not a big deal to me anyway because we tend to stick to the core only, along with a few house rules. I don't mind have the option to buy a new set of books. Some people just get offended by new options I guess.

I mean, seriously, how in the world did creating 3.5 hurt anyone in anyway?

As far as the "premium" stuff…c'mon gimme a break. It's like getting mad a Apple for creating .Mac. The online stuff is optional stuff you can do if you choose that in no way is necessary. They are trying to make money by offering extra cool stuff. What's wrong with that?

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

We don't play 3rd or 4th edition, however. Over the years we wrote our own rules, they're largely a 1st and 2nd edition hybrid along with different ideas we adapted. The world we made is so large and detailed I can't imagine ever converting it to a newer system. Not that we would, WoC seems to have botched the game, from what I can tell.

Making your won rules is awesome but IMO they in no way botched the game with 3E. 1st and 2nd have their merits but the 3rd edition system itself is far less cumbersome. They could have done better with the classes and the races but that is easily remedied. Fixing a class is far easier than fixing an entire system.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Despite basically being a huge geek my entire life, I have never once played Dungeons & Dragons. I watched the movie for Thora Birch, though, and on that basis I have to say Dungeons & Dragons sucks.

That movie was such a bitter disappointment.

D&D may or may not be your thing, but please, for the love of all that's holy do not let that piece of dogshit movie be what keeps you from trying it.

<insert puke smiley here>

[nredman]

YouTube - Stephen Lynch - D&D

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by starman 

How do you find people to play with? Everyone I know just wants to play WoW.

Therein lies the demise of human civilization.

I started out playing D&D, then went to AD&D. That didn't last long as Rolemaster and Spacemaster came out. Far superior to any others, imho. But now at the age of 38, I've outgrown it.

Now if I find people who still remember how to play spades and cribbage, I'm in.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

That movie was such a bitter disappointment.

D&D may or may not be your thing, but please, for the love of all that's holy do not let that piece of dogshit movie be what keeps you from trying it.

<insert puke smiley here>

I used to watch the cartoon on Saturday morning. That and Loonie Tunes, which is the pinnacle of human civilization.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Making your won rules is awesome but IMO they in no way botched the game with 3E. 1st and 2nd have their merits but the 3rd edition system itself is far less cumbersome. They could have done better with the classes and the races but that is easily remedied. Fixing a class is far easier than fixing an entire system.

I find 3rd edition to be too Monty Hall and overpowered, it's the same reason I wouldn't mix my traditional games with Oriental Adventures. Seems they introduced 3rd (and now 4th) edition to appeal to the video game and anime generations. They removed some of the gritty and slower paced rules for a more streamlined and power centered game, and that just doesn't fit with the way we play.

It's not uncommon for us to have games with very little actual combat, a person has to rely on diplomacy or their wits to stay alive. In most scenarios, if we'd tried to simply hack our way out of a bad spot we would have all been dead. I have notebooks full of notes from past games, usually detailed info about NPCs, maps, and creatures. Back in the "good old days" we even beta tested a good deal of the Krynn and Forgotten Realms material, sending off copies of our notes to the TSR team so they could look over how we handled certain encounters and situations. I don't know how many NPCs are derived from characters played in those sessions (quite a few), but I do know that Zhentil Keep and Phlan in Moonsea were designed around our games. Mask was my character.

[subego]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

I have played off and on for about 23 years now.

I swear this is true...

smac, you are the only person I have ever met in real life or online who's alignment is neutral, I've wanted to tell you this for a long time but I wasn't sure you would catch the reference.

[subego]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

I got a D&D Expert box set when I was 12 which I immediately passed up and went right to AD&D. I played through 2nd edition, took a long hiatus and started again about 1 1/2 years before 3rd edition came out.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

We don't play 3rd or 4th edition, however.

Switched to GURPS just as the 2nd edition came out, and didn't come back until 3.5.

I was so anti 2nd edition (and at that time D&D in general, not "realistic" enough), that I had no idea I had missed some of the best settings ever. Within the last 6 months I have become a huge Planescape fanboy, and have just started in on Spelljammer.

I don't like that as much, but it really has an "old school" feel to it. Especially with all the Jim Holloway art.

Originally Posted by smacintush 

I actually went to GenCon when the Player's Handbook came out

I hear GenCon just filed for bankruptcy.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

That movie was such a bitter disappointment.

D&D may or may not be your thing, but please, for the love of all that's holy do not let that piece of dogshit movie be what keeps you from trying it.

<insert puke smiley here>

That was a joke. I didn't really figure the movie had much to do with it at all. I never played it just because I've never had any friends who did.

[residentEvil]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

That was a joke. I didn't really figure the movie had much to do with it at all. I never played it just because I've never had any friends who did.

people who play D&D have friends?

[Dork.]

I've played my share of D&D, and other tabletop RPG's, even after high school when most sane people quit. But RPG's are huge time-sinks, and I haven't had that much time for years and years. I have a fascination with RPG rules systems, though. I have several games that I've never actually played, but I bought just to read through the rules systems and filler text.

I enjoy old-school board games even more. The type that take a weekend to play properly. Diplomacy, Titan, Civilization (the Avalon-Hill version, nothing to do with Sid Meier), all that fun stuff!

I'm going to tell my children that when they have to put me in a home, they should find one with gamers in it. I would enjoy retirement more when I have nothing to do but play all these games I don't have tiem for now. At that point, my short-term memory will probably be shot, and I will be playing with new people every day. But for games like Paranoia, this would likely be an asset!

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I find 3rd edition to be too Monty Hall and overpowered, it's the same reason I wouldn't mix my traditional games with Oriental Adventures. Seems they introduced 3rd (and now 4th) edition to appeal to the video game and anime generations. They removed some of the gritty and slower paced rules for a more streamlined and power centered game, and that just doesn't fit with the way we play.

It's not uncommon for us to have games with very little actual combat, a person has to rely on diplomacy or their wits to stay alive. In most scenarios, if we'd tried to simply hack our way out of a bad spot we would have all been dead. I have notebooks full of notes from past games, usually detailed info about NPCs, maps, and creatures. Back in the "good old days" we even beta tested a good deal of the Krynn and Forgotten Realms material, sending off copies of our notes to the TSR team so they could look over how we handled certain encounters and situations. I don't know how many NPCs are derived from characters played in those sessions (quite a few), but I do know that Zhentil Keep and Phlan in Moonsea were designed around our games. Mask was my character.

Yeah it seems a lot of old players have a similar complaint. It seems to me that it's a natural progression that is necessary for the survival of the game.

That being said, it never seemed like an obstacle to me.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Dork. 

But RPG's are huge time-sinks, and I haven't had that much time for years and years.

Yeah this is a good point. I used to have a really hard time finding time for it. Then I realized that if I don't have the time to play a game then I must be doing something wrong. There should always be time to do something fun.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

That was a joke. I didn't really figure the movie had much to do with it at all. I never played it just because I've never had any friends who did.

Yeah after I hit submit I had that feeling…dammit.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by subego 

I swear this is true...

smac, you are the only person I have ever met in real life or online who's alignment is neutral, I've wanted to tell you this for a long time but I wasn't sure you would catch the reference.

That's funny…and you may be right.

I never really thought about it.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

It's not uncommon for us to have games with very little actual combat, a person has to rely on diplomacy or their wits to stay alive.

Have you checked out some of the indie stuff? Like, say, kill puppies for satan? The mechanics are designed solely to reward and penalize certain types of in-game social behavior.

It's also one of the most adult games I have ever seen, though ironically, not because of the subject matter. The behavior it rewards is screwing-over the other players, and this has enormous potential to turn ugly.

The same author penned another indie darling, Dogs in the Vineyard, where you (more or less) play Mormons in the wild west of Utah. A bit more suitable for a wide audience, rather than backstabbing, the mechanics in this game are designed to highlight the moral quandary of maintaining your righteousness and faith while doing "what needs to be done" in the lawless frontier.


An excerpt from kpfs:

so satan's actually a pretty nice guy. set aside for a minute the fact that he's cold, ****ed up, mean and relentless all at 10, he has starting evil in the triple digits, and three point six billion people worldwide hate him. underneath he's just this regularish guy who watches pro wrestling and cspan. (and sure, rules hell and so on.) but i mean he's not like the other guy, he's approachable. he's not full of himself, he doesn't bogart the joint just because he's the ****ing fallen morningstar, the first person ever with the balls to spit in god's coffee. (which you gotta ****ing admit.)

but even so, if you want to hang with him, you gotta follow a couple rules. they aren't commandments exactly, because he's willing to overlook a few infractions, you know, out of neighborliness. not like that other prick. just keep 'em in mind is all he asks.


satan's guidelines

don't kill people if you can help it. if they're bad people, satan would rather have them out doing evil in the world. if they're good people, they go to heaven and nobody wants that.

if you must **** with people, better to make them say "why god why?" than "god help me." real torture leads people to find their inner strength and ****, petty meanness makes people lose faith in each other. better to hit their dog with your car and drive away laughing.

don't try to make the world a better place. i know this is a no-brainer but you'd be surprised the kind of goody two shoes want to be satan's buds. don't give money to amnesty international or the nra or even the ****ing kiwanis club. keep your cash for yourself, spend it on cigs and porn, put it in stocks bonds and iras, who gives a ****. anyway the world is pretty much just how satan likes it, and if he wants it different he'll tell you.

don't try to tempt people to sin. it's a union thing, and believe me you don't want to scab on demons. just kill puppies and leave the rest to the professionals.

oh, and don't get caught, asshole. you definitely won't do satan any favors from a padded cell in willard.

[Koralatov]

I don't know if it counts, but I played Icewind Dale and Planescape Torment. Icewind bored me after a while, because it kind of descends into a bit of a grind-heavy dungeon-crawl. Planescape on the other hand is absolutely incredible. I remember being seriously addicted to that game, and it's one of the few story-based games I've played through multiple times (Fallout, Fallout 2 and Battlezone being some of the others).

[G Barnett]

Still play it after all these years (started around 1985). Of my current group (been playing together for about 8 years or so now), I quite easily own the most books but am also the most pro-4E. I like the direction it's going, I like the feel of it (the two preview books, Races & Classes and Worlds & Monsters are specacular) but mostly I'm looking forward to the fact that I'm only going to have to worry about three books again.

This is a huge deal for me, as I'm the primary DM and my group lives about 70 miles away from me. Lugging a backpack and a plastic carry box full of books (easily 50 or more pounds between the two of them) each weekend SUCKS.

Oh and I love parenthetical expressions (like you couldn't tell)....

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Dork. 

I've played my share of D&D, and other tabletop RPG's, even after high school when most sane people quit. But RPG's are huge time-sinks, and I haven't had that much time for years and years. I have a fascination with RPG rules systems, though. I have several games that I've never actually played, but I bought just to read through the rules systems and filler text.

Long ago I spent a considerable amount of time organizing info and working on game related material, but not anymore. Now I just spend 5 minutes drawing up a rough outline for a session and go with it. Helps when you have 20 years worth of notes and world info to draw from.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by subego 

Have you checked out some of the indie stuff? Like, say, kill puppies for satan? The mechanics are designed solely to reward and penalize certain types of in-game social behavior.

It's also one of the most adult games I have ever seen, though ironically, not because of the subject matter. The behavior it rewards is screwing-over the other players, and this has enormous potential to turn ugly.

The same author penned another indie darling, Dogs in the Vineyard, where you (more or less) play Mormons in the wild west of Utah. A bit more suitable for a wide audience, rather than backstabbing, the mechanics in this game are designed to highlight the moral quandary of maintaining your righteousness and faith while doing "what needs to be done" in the lawless frontier.


An excerpt from kpfs:

We used to play a little Call of Cthulhu and Champions but after a while we cut back the number of different games, we all enjoy our AD&D settings more. There's another group around here that plays Vampire:TM, and it was fun, but I just don't have the time anymore.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Koralatov 

Planescape on the other hand is absolutely incredible.

The source material for this is my current addiction, and I've been consistently blown away by it. Pure gold.

[Atheist]

I played in the late 70's while in high school. Don't remember much of it now. I had a lot of original paraphernalia that has been lost in my many moves. Wonder if it would have been worth anything.

[subego]

Originally Posted by G Barnett 

This is a huge deal for me, as I'm the primary DM and my group lives about 70 miles away from me. Lugging a backpack and a plastic carry box full of books (easily 50 or more pounds between the two of them) each weekend SUCKS.

I was thinking the Kindle might be neat for this.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Long ago I spent a considerable amount of time organizing info and working on game related material, but not anymore. Now I just spend 5 minutes drawing up a rough outline for a session and go with it. Helps when you have 20 years worth of notes and world info to draw from.

Well, for that, the state-of-the-art is Savage Worlds. Not that you need a new system, or have the time to learn one, get your players to learn one, etc., but its focus is super-quick prep, and smooth combats even if the GM is running 20 or 30 enemies.

Not that you're doing lots of combat either.

[paul w]

I used to play big time in my teens, admittedly before girls and such.

I'd love to play again, I get all fuzzy thinking about it really. The closest thing I have is my Axis and Allies board game which gets very little love in spite of being brand new and generally regarded as waaay awesome.

Time, we all need more time.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Yeah this is a good point. I used to have a really hard time finding time for it. Then I realized that if I don't have the time to play a game then I must be doing something wrong. There should always be time to do something fun.

I understand that sentiment, but I find that there are other types of games that I also enjoy, without the huge time commitment. My wife enjoys the shorter board games, and we usually break out the Settlers of Catan, Carcassone, or Crayon Rails games a few times a year. It's a lot easier to find an hour here or there then to arrange a regular meeting every week or two with friends' busy schedules....

Originally Posted by subego 

I was thinking the Kindle might be neat for this.

There are sites that sell the older RPG's online, like the 1st Ed. AD&D, like this. Could the Kindle take these?

I've been tempted to buy some just to read them, because we've already established I'm nutty that way.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

They did release 3.5 too soon, they have admitted that if they had known they were going to be bringing 4E now they wouldn't have even messed with 3.5. Hindsight and all.
...

I mean, seriously, how in the world did creating 3.5 hurt anyone in anyway?

The release of 3.5 didn't hurt anyone because all you had to do was download the free 3.5 errata, or, just visit d20srd.org, which kept the most recent rules up-to-date. It was simple.

The glaring problems with 3.x was not a problem because all the DM had to do was litigate. It's not that difficult. The Rules Compendium book pretty much did away with it. It's almost like Hasbro is pulling a Microsoft. D&D players are too stupid to figure it out on their own, so we're going to release an incompatible dumbed down version so you have to rebuy everything if you want to use the newer version.

Originally Posted by smacintush 

As far as the "premium" stuff…c'mon gimme a break. It's like getting mad a Apple for creating .Mac. The online stuff is optional stuff you can do if you choose that in no way is necessary. They are trying to make money by offering extra cool stuff. What's wrong with that?

So the PHB, DMG, and Monster Manual will be sold. If you want the Fiend Folio, Monster Manuals II through IV, Spell Compendium, Magic Item Compendium, or any other book, you have to pay $15/month to have access to them. Granted, that $15/month will give you access to all the books, but as with any pay-to-play system (gods, I can't believe I'm associating Pay-To-Play with Pen & Paper D&D) you're going to pay more money than it's worth.

So unless they come out with a brand new book every single month, it's just money down the hole.

They should just rename 4th Edition to World of Warcraft. That's all it is now.

Also, knowing Wizards and Hasbro's track record, the Online Content will require a Windows capable machine with Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player.

[harbinger75]

I played from about 1988 until 1992 or so. I bought the AD&D starter set which allowed me to go on a couple of solo adventures to get the hang of the rules, etc. Once in high school, a few buddies began playing, and we ended up having the late-night AD&D rounds with pizza and sodas (oh, the innocent times).

Once I started dating my first wife in about 1992, that kind of stuff was off for quite some time. I'd love to play again, but I don't know of anybody who plays anymore.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Dork. 

There are sites that sell the older RPG's online, like the 1st Ed. AD&D, like this. Could the Kindle take these?

I've been tempted to buy some just to read them, because we've already established I'm nutty that way.

Is that legal?

Also, I'd hope they're OCRed, cuz 30MB low-res JPEG scans of books is horrible.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Is that legal?

Also, I'd hope they're OCRed, cuz 30MB low-res JPEG scans of books is horrible.

These guys have been around for a while. Wizards of the Coast is only slightly less proficient in the Evil Empire business than Microsoft is. Their lawyers would have Fireballed and Magic Missled these guys if they weren't legit.

Besides, it's not like the 1st or 2nd editions are in print anymore. It's a smart move for WOTC to offer them online and at least get something for them, instead of forcing someone to buy it secondhand (and then WOTC gets nothing...)

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

So the PHB, DMG, and Monster Manual will be sold. If you want the Fiend Folio, Monster Manuals II through IV, Spell Compendium, Magic Item Compendium, or any other book, you have to pay $15/month to have access to them.

I haven't seen any confirmation of this. If this is the case then I partially agree with you. Got a link?

They should just rename 4th Edition to World of Warcraft. That's all it is now.

There are some parts of the MMORPG that deserve a look for using in D&D. Just because some things might be stolen, borrowed from or inspired by a video game doesn't mean that it's a bad idea.

What is it that specifically comes from WoW that troubles you?

Also, knowing Wizards and Hasbro's track record, the Online Content will require a Windows capable machine with Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player.

Can't argue that.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by harbinger75 

I'd love to play again, but I don't know of anybody who plays anymore.

Originally Posted by paul w 

I'd love to play again, I get all fuzzy thinking about it really.

Some of the geek shops that sell RPG's and comic books etc. have bulletin boards or game rooms so that you can find players. I've never done that but it is an option. I've even been approached about playing just browsing the books.

Or you can move here to armpit of Indiana and you can join my group.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

There are some parts of the MMORPG that deserve a look for using in D&D. Just because some things might be stolen, borrowed from or inspired by a video game doesn't mean that it's a bad idea.

What is it that specifically comes from WoW that troubles you?

I'm curious about this myself. I'd always heard that WOW took a bunch of stuff from D&D. Was it actually the opposite or was it mutual pilfering?

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I'm curious about this myself. I'd always heard that WOW took a bunch of stuff from D&D. Was it actually the opposite or was it mutual pilfering?

They got rid of Ranger, Druid, Monk, Sorcerer, and Paladin. There are only a handful of base classes, including now the Warlock. They've reworked spells so that a Wizard does a smaller amount of damager faster, and a Warlock does more damage over a longer period of time. Spell casting, special abilities, etc. are like World of Warcraft.

Funny since they're moving from Greyhawk to Forgotten Realms for the default campaign setting. I wonder what Drizzt will be now since he can't be a Ranger?

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

I haven't seen any confirmation of this. If this is the case then I partially agree with you. Got a link?

I read it wrong. When you buy a book you can subscribe to "D&D online" and have access to a PDF of the book you bought. But that costs $15/month to access the PDFs.

Originally Posted by smacintush 

What is it that specifically comes from WoW that troubles you?

The new spell system, racial abilities, etc. The move away from traditional fantasy to anime. I'm an old fart, I guess, when it comes to D&D. I really enjoyed the fantasy aspect of it; good ol' fashion Larry Elmore style D&D. Now they've turned it into a giant cartoon. I'll just have to go back stick to 3rd or even 2nd edition. Hasbro has to make money, so they're going to change the game to cater to their target group: teenagers who like everything anime and play World of Warcraft.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

They got rid of Ranger

I though Ranger was confirmed? Link?

Druid

Druid is a WoW class…and a popular one. How is omitting the Druid making more like WoW? Besides, the 3.5 Druid is meh and it'll likely be in the PHB II.

Monk

The monk as presented in 3.5 is very Asian and totally out of place. Just doesn't fit. It may end up in PHB II as well.

Sorcerer

I like Sorcerers but they never felt like a "core" class to me, just like the Monk.

Paladin

AFAIK Pally is confirmed for PHB core class, and again how would eliminating it make it more like WoW?

There are only a handful of base classes, including now the Warlock

.

There are 8 confirmed AFAIK.

Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, Rogue, Ranger, Warlord, Warlock, Paladin

They've reworked spells so that a Wizard does a smaller amount of damager faster, and a Warlock does more damage over a longer period of time. Spell casting, special abilities, etc. are like World of Warcraft.

I haven't read this either, but I fail to see how it's a bad thing. WoW's combat system is worthy of some ripping off and the Warlock is a worthy class, though I don't think it belongs in the PHB as a core class.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

I read it wrong. When you buy a book you can subscribe to "D&D online" and have access to a PDF of the book you bought. But that costs $15/month to access the PDFs.

WoTC confirmed that a subscription will not be necessary to access digital versions of the rule books.

[subego]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

I haven't read this either, but I fail to see how it's a bad thing. WoW's combat system is worthy of of some ripping off

Really.

If they didn't do that, I'd have to rewrite it that way, at least in my current situation.

I'm trying to hook the SO, and she's played console versions of D&D. From this we know she likes to sling magic.

Well, it's just going to be me as DM and her as the single player.

So, with an INT bonus she gets what? Three spells a day? She starts with what? 5HP?

Sign me up! That's what I want to play.

[Koralatov]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

They got rid of Ranger, Druid, Monk, Sorcerer, and Paladin.

Damn, there goes half my party in Icewind Dale in one fell swoop; I used to play a human Paladin, half-elf Ranger and half-elf Druid in my party. Now that's obviously not an option anymore.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Koralatov 

Damn, there goes half my party in Icewind Dale in one fell swoop; I used to play a human Paladin, half-elf Ranger and half-elf Druid in my party. Now that's obviously not an option anymore.

I think smac is right. Only the Druid has been ganked.

That's just going to be the core books though, I'm sure Druids will be available as an option.