Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

pjmurphy · Oct 15, 2005, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by fisherKing

doesn't sound like someone who's in the know...

often, apple store people know about the new stuff AFTER, say, macnn addicts (i know this from experience: when i went it to the apple store last year, and told the genius i'd just updated to 10.3.6 or something, and he told me there was no such update)

plus these guys are there to sell stock items, not warn you to wait...

guess we'll see in 5 days...if!

exactly.. I worked PT at an Apple Store last year and we never knew of anything until the public knew..

aplmd · 10:29 AM

Maybe it is that I just woke up, but what if Apple puts out the first Intel based machines next week?? They have been working on it for probably the switch for the past 4-5 months (or longer, who knows when Steve made his discision). How hard can it be? They know that they have to upgrade the professional lines which have had meger at best upgrades over the past 2 years.. They have hired more technicians. Everyone is waiting until January for Yonah to appear, but wouldn't it be smart of Apple to put a Intel Based chip like the current Centrino chip into a laptop, get some (maybe 30-40%) speed increase over current models, and work out any issues, then in March come out with Yonah and in October come with Meron? Apple has already showed at MWSF that they have OS for it already. It seems odd for Apple to call a media event next week for small processor upgrades if any. Now wouldn't that just blow everyone away....

Kenstee · Oct 15, 2005, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by aplmd

It seems odd for Apple to call a media event next week for small processor upgrades if any. Now wouldn't that just blow everyone away....

I think the "star " of the show are going to be the desktops NOT the PBs. They are doing this event just before a major Photo convention so I think they will be highligting their professional desktop capabilities and maybe intro some new photo software. The PB's? Just a speed bump and perhaps some HD screens and DDR2 RAM. Nothing earthshaking I'm afraid.

In fact, I don't think we'll see really major PB news until Meron. Yonah is a yawner - and a stop gap solution at best - it will be rendered pretty much obsolete in a very short time by Meron. In addition, I read last week that Intel is having some major issues with getting Yonah ready for prime time. Heat and energy consumption are way above what they want.

riotge@r · Oct 15, 2005, 02:08 PM

I can go months without logging on to this web site and still see "new powerbooks this week" threads at the top of the list...

Fusion · Oct 16, 2005, 01:18 AM

Okay, well I did it. I was in the Apple store and they had a couple "Ultra Models" in stock. I guess I'll just pray that the upgrades aren't big enough to warrant a return/exchange. I don't care about different types of RAM or anything. I will only exchange this if they:

a: have better screen resolutions... which I would be shocked since Apple is notorious for small DPI screens so everyone can read.

b: Better battery life. Again shocked, battery life has been an issue with these things since they came out. It couldn't have taken them this long to work issues out to get better battery life.

mduell · Oct 16, 2005, 02:34 AM

Originally Posted by Fusion

a: have better screen resolutions... which I would be shocked since Apple is notorious for small DPI screens so everyone can read.

If the text is too small for you to read, make your font size bigger. Text will still look better.

Eug Wanker · Oct 16, 2005, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

If the text is too small for you to read, make your font size bigger. Text will still look better.

That destroys the formatting of websites. Pictures will continue to look small, but the text will be comparatively oversized.

I do think 1920x1200 in the 17" is possible, but I sure wouldn't buy one, given the state of OS X today with regards to resolution independence.

andreas_g4 · Oct 16, 2005, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

That destroys the formatting of websites. Pictures will continue to look small, but the text will be comparatively oversized.

I do think 1920x1200 in the 17" is possible, but I sure wouldn't buy one, given the state of OS X today with regards to resolution independence.

2nded. But I'd say the 1920x1200 res would be targeted on the video pros, which need that for their HDTV content. On the other hand, an high res BTO option for the 17" would be cool, but that's more than highly doubtable, I know.

jamil5454 · Oct 16, 2005, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by pjmurphy

exactly.. I worked PT at an Apple Store last year and we never knew of anything until the public knew..

Same here. Apple Store employees don't get any "inside information." I hated it when people kept asking me when the PowerBook G5 would come out, and then got disappointed when I answered with an "I don't know."

As for the restocking fee, it's actually there for a reason. A returned computer has to go through a barrage of tests before it can be sold again. That takes time, and time=money. Apple shouldn't be held responsible to eat the restocking fee just because someone decided to get their machine when they did. And the store manager won't void the restocking fee unless you have a REALLY good excuse, and a product update isn't one of them.

Cloud · Oct 16, 2005, 02:35 PM

Someone should update the title of this thread corresponding to the week so we actually know WHEN new powerbooks are coming hahaha.

No really this week!

No no next week I mean.

Sorry Sources say 3 weeks from now I'm serious!

Funny ****.

SoCal_BigFoot · Oct 16, 2005, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by riotge@r

I can go months without logging on to this web site and still see "new powerbooks this week" threads at the top of the list...

That what's left from Apple these days - smoke and mirrors... and iPods

Eug Wanker · Oct 16, 2005, 09:34 PM

iomatic · Oct 16, 2005, 10:54 PM

Well. I am in the market to replace my 12" with a 15". W00t.

I repeat, w00t.

If it happens next week Wednesday.

Fusion · Oct 16, 2005, 11:56 PM

I never said that I couldn't ready it. I love high resolutions.... I was always the person pimping out the resolutions on CRTs. However, just because I like it, doesn't mean everyone does. I know many people who can't stand high resolution because they can't read. And it's not just websites.... it's everything.

I'd love higher resolution, I'd just be surprised if they actually offered it is all.

Moon Potato · Oct 17, 2005, 02:41 AM

Originally Posted by Fusion

I never said that I couldn't ready it. I love high resolutions.... I was always the person pimping out the resolutions on CRTs. However, just because I like it, doesn't mean everyone does. I know many people who can't stand high resolution because they can't read. And it's not just websites.... it's everything.

I'd love higher resolution, I'd just be surprised if they actually offered it is all.

Well, this was supposed to be the year of the HD.
I'd love to see higher-density displays in the powerbooks, though a lot of people seem to object to the idea. It'll be interesting to see which way apple goes with this, although higher-definition does seem to make more sense for the "pro" crowd.

iomatic · Oct 17, 2005, 10:48 AM

Is OLED commercially available in quantity yet?

jamil5454 · Oct 17, 2005, 11:39 AM

I suspect if Apple actually does offer higher resolution displays, the default resolution will still be what it is now. Everything would be pretty small at 1900x1200 on a 17".

mduell · Oct 17, 2005, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by iomatic

Is OLED commercially available in quantity yet?

In 2-3" displays, yes, in 12-17" displays, no.

inkhead · Oct 17, 2005, 01:05 PM

No, but you could buy a good pair of glasses.

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

That destroys the formatting of websites. Pictures will continue to look small, but the text will be comparatively oversized.

I do think 1920x1200 in the 17" is possible, but I sure wouldn't buy one, given the state of OS X today with regards to resolution independence.

iDaver · Oct 17, 2005, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by jamil5454

I suspect if Apple actually does offer higher resolution displays, the default resolution will still be what it is now. Everything would be pretty small at 1900x1200 on a 17".

That's unlikely. Anything other than native resolution on a LCD is terrible.

all2ofme · Oct 17, 2005, 02:11 PM

If the OS's resolution handling were up to it it'd be easy for the machine to know to display at full resolution but with larger fonts, icons etc. As Eug says, though - bitmaps on web pages(and the like)'d be either small or scaled up.

Either way - I still want a 15" with 1680x1050

. Actually, a 15" with 1920x1200 would be nice too...

iDaver · Oct 17, 2005, 02:22 PM

Resolution independence will require a lot of steps. Web designers and web browsers will need to recognize image sizes in inches, points or centimeters; not pixels. Same goes for all of the palettes in software interfaces. Apple could make a big first step by taking the OS there first, forcing design and software people to start thinking about it. Meanwhile, small increases in display resolution seem to be the next best thing. It wouldn't surprise me to see PowerBooks and Cinema Displays with a 10-15% resolution increase in the next year or so.

habibman · Oct 17, 2005, 02:29 PM

all that matters is that new PB's are finally coming out. it is about freaking time.

mduell · Oct 17, 2005, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by iDaver

That's unlikely. Anything other than native resolution on a LCD is terrible.

People who need low dpi (~72) screens could run a WUXGA panel at half the native resolution (960x600).

henrik · Oct 18, 2005, 11:14 AM

I've been following this thread for quite some time now... And I've been contemplating getting a new Apple laptop since mid-September.

First, I stopped myself from a purchase to see if SJ would announce anything interesting in Paris, but he didn't even give the keynote address he had originally planned. Then, I was about to purchase something at the beginning of October and a friend stopped me pointing out that SJ was making some announcements on the 12th. As we all know, that event turned out to be about the video-iPod and a new iMac. And so now, I anxiously await to see what gets said tomorrow by SJ.

Basically, I am trying to make my mind up between getting a maxed out 12 inch iBook or a maxed out 12 inch Powerbook.

If I had to make that decision today, I would probably go for the ibook. The difference in specs between the two does not seem to justify the difference in price.

If tomorrow there is a significant update to the 12 inch Powerbook, I might consider getting that. However, given the rumors going around, it seems like the 12 inch Powerbook may not get much of an update and it will only be the 15 inch and 17 inch Powerbooks who may possibly get a big boost.

I mostly care about portability.
Thus, a 15 inch Powerbook seems a bit too large (not too mention it is expensive).
A 12 inch Powerbook is definitely lighter and thinner than a 12 inch iBook, but if there isn't a significant difference in performance, it does not seem worthwhile to pay so much more in order to get just a little less weight and a little less volume.

Any comments? thoughts? suggestions?

Randman · Oct 18, 2005, 11:29 AM

I wouldn't expect the 12s to get much, if anything until the Mactels come out.

mduell · 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by henrik

I've been following this thread for quite some time now... And I've been contemplating getting a new Apple laptop since mid-September.

First, I stopped myself from a purchase to see if SJ would announce anything interesting in Paris, but he didn't even give the keynote address he had originally planned. Then, I was about to purchase something at the beginning of October and a friend stopped me pointing out that SJ was making some announcements on the 12th. As we all know, that event turned out to be about the video-iPod and a new iMac. And so now, I anxiously await to see what gets said tomorrow by SJ.

Basically, I am trying to make my mind up between getting a maxed out 12 inch iBook or a maxed out 12 inch Powerbook.

If I had to make that decision today, I would probably go for the ibook. The difference in specs between the two does not seem to justify the difference in price.

If tomorrow there is a significant update to the 12 inch Powerbook, I might consider getting that. However, given the rumors going around, it seems like the 12 inch Powerbook may not get much of an update and it will only be the 15 inch and 17 inch Powerbooks who may possibly get a big boost.

I mostly care about portability.
Thus, a 15 inch Powerbook seems a bit too large (not too mention it is expensive).
A 12 inch Powerbook is definitely lighter and thinner than a 12 inch iBook, but if there isn't a significant difference in performance, it does not seem worthwhile to pay so much more in order to get just a little less weight and a little less volume.

Any comments? thoughts? suggestions?

Just FYI, the 12" iBook has a better video card than the 12" PowerBook.
If buying the iBook means you can afford more RAM than the PowerBook, I'd go with the iBook. If you have an unlimited stream of money, you'll have to decide between a slightly faster CPU (PowerBook) or better graphics (iBook). The iBooks battery also lasts longer.

inkhead · Oct 18, 2005, 02:51 PM

Okay a couple of questions, I'm going to buy a new powerbook tomorrow, what are the odds first that the Apple store will actually carry them after the annoucement (given the fact that they have been delayed so long), and do Apple stores ever carry the "high-end" models, aka the BTO ones with all the options? I'd love to go down the the apple store and buy in Los Angeles, rather than online... Anybody have odds?

jhogarty · Oct 18, 2005, 03:23 PM

When the iMacs were updated back in May, my local store didn't carry them. I had to return the original iMac I bought the week before, pay the 10% restock fee and then order the new iMac via the Apple Store. Accept for the Nano, I've not seen my local store carry the new products untill at least a week after product announcement.

J.

inkhead · Oct 18, 2005, 03:58 PM

Why would you pay a restocking fee? Just insist that you are not happy with your purchase, they won't make you pay the restocking fee.

Thumannator · Oct 18, 2005, 05:17 PM

Maybe this is nuts, but does anyone recall hearing a while back about a patent Apple had filed for an integrated swiveling camera-lens/laptop-latch thing? I forget where I read that, but I'm sure Apple wants to get this Photo Booth software (on the new iMacs) out to all of their systems, and the news on the 19th is being announced at some photo-related conference, right? Maybe all of this is related...

Just a thought...

jamil5454 · Oct 18, 2005, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

Just FYU, the 12" iBook has a better video card than the 12" PowerBook.
If buying the iBook means you can afford more RAM than the PowerBook, I'd go with the iBook. If you have an unlimited stream of money, you'll have to decide between a slightly faster CPU (PowerBook) or better graphics (iBook). The iBooks battery also lasts longer.

The iBook's video card isn't better than the PowerBook's.

The 32mb of VRAM on the iBook is crippling in all but the simplest games of today. And a 9550 isn't very fast to begin with.

Fusion · Oct 18, 2005, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by inkhead

Why would you pay a restocking fee? Just insist that you are not happy with your purchase, they won't make you pay the restocking fee.

Yes. They will. It's their return policy.

jhogarty · Oct 18, 2005, 05:31 PM

There was nothing wrong with the iMac I purchased, other than poor timing on my part. In the end I got a better computer for the same price, even with the 10% restock fee. I'm more about doing the right thing. Had there been a problem with my unit, or I totally didn't like it, I would have fought the 10%.

J.

mduell · Oct 18, 2005, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by inkhead

Okay a couple of questions, I'm going to buy a new powerbook tomorrow, what are the odds first that the Apple store will actually carry them after the annoucement (given the fact that they have been delayed so long), and do Apple stores ever carry the "high-end" models, aka the BTO ones with all the options? I'd love to go down the the apple store and buy in Los Angeles, rather than online... Anybody have odds?

I'll give you odds of pi-e:i^-i

Tesseract · Oct 18, 2005, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

I'll give you odds of pi-e:i^-i

You meant e^(i*pi)+1, right?

henrik · Oct 18, 2005, 09:53 PM

Another disadvantage of the 12 inch iBook over the 12 inch Powerbook, is that the ibook does not have a superdrive. That's too bad, but not really essential for me. I can easily burn DVD's at home on my iMac, so it is not that big of a deal if I am not able to burn DVD's on the road.

The better battery life and the better WiFi signal reception on the iBook are both somewhat important advantages for me.

mduell · Oct 18, 2005, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by Tesseract

You meant e^(i*pi)+1, right?

That's not odds; Odds is a ratio.

I was just picking some random irrational numbers where one was much less than the other.

aplmd · Oct 18, 2005, 10:59 PM

Come to papa you Centrinon based mactel Powerbook..... I know you want to come home....

mduell · Oct 18, 2005, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by jamil5454

The iBook's video card isn't better than the PowerBook's.

The 32mb of VRAM on the iBook is crippling in all but the simplest games of today. And a 9550 isn't very fast to begin with.

For cards this slow, I'm not convinced the 64MB VRAM is really much better than 32MB.
As I said earlier, the way the desktop cards are clocked the 9500 is about 50% faster than the 5200. And the 9550 in the iBooks appears to be a slightly clocked-down 9600 instead of a clocked up 9500.

There is some anecdotal evidence that the iBook's 9550 is faster than the PowerBook's 5200 at MacRumors Forums.

And reviews of the same cards, in desktop trim on PCs:
TomsHardware
DriverHaven

Do you have any benchmarks showing the 5200Go/64MB to be faster than the 9550/32MB?

Tesseract · Oct 18, 2005, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

That's not odds; Odds is a ratio.

I was just picking some random irrational numbers where one was much less than the other.

That was odds. Odds of zero.

No Time 4 Love Dr. Jones · Oct 19, 2005, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

For cards this slow, I'm not convinced the 64MB VRAM is really much better than 32MB.
As I said earlier, the way the desktop cards are clocked the 9500 is about 50% faster than the 5200. And the 9550 in the iBooks appears to be a slightly clocked-down 9600 instead of a clocked up 9500.

There is some anecdotal evidence that the iBook's 9550 is faster than the PowerBook's 5200 at MacRumors Forums.

And reviews of the same cards, in desktop trim on PCs:
TomsHardware
DriverHaven

Do you have any benchmarks showing the 5200Go/64MB to be faster than the 9550/32MB?

The 64 MB of RAM makes no difference at all. I've had the original 32 MB mini and now the 64 MB, and window draw, Expose slowness, etc. are still the same...even with Q3DXT enabled by default.

Eug Wanker · Oct 19, 2005, 08:55 AM

32" isn't enough for a 20" screen IMO for Exposé. The only mini I'd consider is one with 64 MB.

For the iBook it's irrelevant however.

henrik · Oct 19, 2005, 09:16 AM

Does anybody here believe they might completely scrap the 12 inch Powerbook as suggested by Think Secret?
http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0510pro.html

That would be an interesting development...

Another rumor/possibility, is that the 12 inch gets replaced by a 13 inch widescreen PB.
That would also be quite interesting...

Randman · Oct 19, 2005, 09:37 AM

While any bump is nice, I still think it'll be muted in anticipation of the Mactels next year.

starman · Oct 19, 2005, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by aplmd

Come to papa you Centrinon based mactel Powerbook..... I know you want to come home....

There's no way on God's Green Earth that's happening today. Steve said next year.

Mike

starman · Oct 19, 2005, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Randman

While any bump is nice, I still think it'll be muted in anticipation of the Mactels next year.

Yup. I still have my 15" Powerbook. I don't know if I should keep it for a while or sell it. I'd hate to sell it, but I'd rather get something for it now while it's still worth something. This is a strange time for hardware.

Mike

Moon Potato · Oct 19, 2005, 07:30 PM

ugh... The last update was weak. This one was just pathetic. No PPC 7448's or mobile G5's. No PCIe. No new GPU's.
Looks like I'm stuck spending $2000 on a piece of **** with a nice screen.

Kenstee · Oct 19, 2005, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Moon Potato

ugh... The last update was weak. This one was just pathetic. No PPC 7448's or mobile G5's. No PCIe. No new GPU's.
Looks like I'm stuck spending $2000 on a piece of **** with a nice screen.

Hey man, nobody'd got a gun to your head! Keep your money in your pocket until the already obsolete Yonah Mactel PBs come out.

Moon Potato · Oct 19, 2005, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by Kenstee

Hey man, nobody'd got a gun to your head! Keep your money in your pocket until the already obsolete Yonah Mactel PBs come out.

I'd love to wait, but between my school and my internship, I need to constantly be working in FCP, and I'm rarely home to use my G5 anymore. As much as I don't want to, I'm better off buying a powerbook now than I am waiting for the Intels.