[brapper]

because I'm getting on in years (almost 21...) and because I still don't have a career in mind, my dad thinks that I shouldn't waste another summer in a retail position, or in something that I don't enjoy. So, instead he thinks that I should spend this summer, instead of next as planned, backpacking through europe. That way I can get that trip done and focus on finding a great job next summer when it really matters.
So, though it's not a final decision yet, I think I'm going to do that and I'm wondering what advice any of you have to give.
The plan is to give me a ticket to one place, say Athens, and also a ticket homes from, say London, 6 weeks later. All points in between will be up to me and my friend.
So any tips on transport, places to stay, places to avoid, etc?
I've hit some great site on the net, but I'd some of your ideas as well..
Thanks.
(btw, I'll be taking a digital camera, my iPod and a belkin media reader, but no Powerbook..)

[ThinkInsane]

Keep in mind that it's a long swim from Athens to mainland Europe. Just trying to help.

No real helpful suggestions except to have fun, learn as much as you can, don't get robbed, see the sights, party, and develop short term relationships with a lot of exotic women with certain moral flexibilities.

[Sven G]

There are also some rather informative websites:

www.backpackingeurope.com

www.backpackingthrougheurope.com

www.bugeurope.com

www.eurotrip.com

www.oldcontinent.com

www.thebackpacker.net

... and so on...

[deekay1]

Originally posted by brapper:
The plan is to give me a ticket to one place, say Athens, and also a ticket homes from, say London, 6 weeks later.

barcelona, milano (or rome), paris (or berlin), london (each 9-10 days at least!). that should have you set!

maybe athens, if you're into the whole "olympics" stuff!

[brapper]

Originally posted by Sven G:
There's even a rather informative website:

http://www.backpackingeurope.com

(there are also some others, of course).

yeah that was my starting point last night...
...i guess i just want to hear some real life stories of any of your experiences...
something a bit easier to relate to..
thanks

[brapper]

Originally posted by deekay1:
barcelona, milano (or rome), paris (or berlin), london (each 9-10 days at least!). that should have you set!

maybe athens, if you're into the whole "olympics" stuff!

I totally forgot about the olympics!
that could be interesting for sure!...if not a little commercial...
EDIT: actualy i just looked into it, and I dont think my trip will overlap with the olympics...
oh well

[Powaqqatsi]

Originally posted by deekay1:
barcelona, milano (or rome), paris (or berlin), london (each 9-10 days at least!). that should have you set!

I must disagree, staying for more than 3 days is pointless and boring unless you want to get involved with the people living there.

And come over to belgium and taste our beers

[deekay1]

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
unless you want to get involved with the people living there.

heaven forbid no!!! don't get involved with the people there...somebody might think you're not a tourist...

[brapper]

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
I must disagree, staying for more than 3 days is pointless and boring unless you want to get involved with the people living there.

And come over to belgium and taste our beers

haha, as a good canadian beer drinker, do not doubt that I'll tast the finest beer of each country i visit!

[deekay1]

Originally posted by brapper:
I totally forgot about the olympics!
that could be interesting for sure!...if not a little commercial...

if you are into soccer at all, the european championships are in portugal this summer as well, starting the 12th of june.

[Powaqqatsi]

Originally posted by deekay1:
heaven forbid no!!! don't get involved with the people there...somebody might think you're not a tourist...

Really you DO NOT want to get involved with the "Parisiens"
They are, let's say, noisy...

[wolfen]

Youth hostels are fantastic because you get exposure to many different people and they usually enjoy conversing. Sometimes you even get a travel companion or two for the day.

We really enjoyed the hostels and backpacking around Italy.



wolfen

[brapper]

Originally posted by wolfen:
Youth hostels are fantastic because you get exposure to many different people and they usually enjoy conversing. Sometimes you even get a travel companion or two for the day.

We really enjoyed the hostels and backpacking around Italy.



wolfen

in your experience were the hostels relatively safe to leave a bag at?

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by brapper:
because I'm getting on in years (almost 21...) and because I still don't have a career in mind, my dad thinks that I shouldn't waste another summer in a retail position, or in something that I don't enjoy. So, instead he thinks that I should spend this summer, instead of next as planned, backpacking through europe. That way I can get that trip done and focus on finding a great job next summer when it really matters.
So, though it's not a final decision yet, I think I'm going to do that and I'm wondering what advice any of you have to give.
The plan is to give me a ticket to one place, say Athens, and also a ticket homes from, say London, 6 weeks later. All points in between will be up to me and my friend.
So any tips on transport, places to stay, places to avoid, etc?
I've hit some great site on the net, but I'd some of your ideas as well..
Thanks.
(btw, I'll be taking a digital camera, my iPod and a belkin media reader, but no Powerbook..)

Assuming a tight budget, get a Eurrail pass and join the Youth Hostel Association. Cheap, and a good way to meet people. It's probably not a bad idea to bring a small tent as well.

Finally: when you get to Europe, buy a Trangia. It's a lifesaver.

[effgee]

Here's my recommendation - skip Greece in '04, gonna be way too crowded and overpriced. If I were you, I'd go for a nice mix of partying, culture, urban and countryside.

Fly into Spain or Portugal and start from there, then make your way along the mediterranean coast for about two weeks, end up in Italy, travel up north to either Austria or Switzerland (both are beautiful) make sure you see the Alps, make two quick stops in Germany. Then travel up north - Kopenhagen is great and a must-see (should you have any time to spare by then, visit Sweden!). After that, slowly make your way towards England with a quick stop in Amsterdam (do not miss this!!) - and finally, London's always worth a couple of days visit.

Spain/Portugal

• Lisbon
• Barcelona

France

• Mediterranean coast
• Nice
• Cannes

Italy

• Rome
• Florence

Austria

• Vienna

Switzerland

• Zurich

Germany

• Munich
• Hamburg

Denmark

• Kopenhagen

Netherlands

• Amsterdam

England

• London

[brapper]

Originally posted by effgee:
Here's my recommendation - skip Greece in '04, gonna be way too crowded and overpriced. If I were you, I'd go for a nice mix of partying, culture, urban and countryside.

Spain/Portugal

• Lisbon
• Barcelona

France

• Mediterranean coast
• Nice
• Cannes

Italy

• Rome
• Florence

Austria

• Vienna

Switzerland

• Zurich

Germany

• Munich
• Hamburg

Denmark

• Kopenhagen

Netherlands

• Amsterdam

England

• London

beauty, thanks!

[Powaqqatsi]

Originally posted by effgee:
Here's my recommendation - skip Greece in '04, gonna be way too crowded and overpriced. If I were you, I'd go for a nice mix of partying, culture, urban and countryside.

Fly into Spain or Portugal and start from there, then make your way along the mediterranean coast for about two weeks, end up in Italy, travel up north to either Austria or Switzerland (both are beautiful) make sure you see the Alps, make two quick stops in Germany. Then travel up north - Kopenhagen is great and a must-see (should you have any time to spare by then, visit Sweden!). After that, slowly make your way towards England with a quick stop in Amsterdam (do not miss this!!) - and finally, London's always worth a couple of days visit.

Spain/Portugal

• Lisbon
• Barcelona

France

• Mediterranean coast
• Nice
• Cannes

Italy

• Rome
• Florence

Austria

• Vienna

Switzerland

• Zurich

Germany

• Munich
• Hamburg

Denmark

• Kopenhagen

Netherlands

• Amsterdam

England

• London

Let me add Carcassonne and the area to that list. Not as tourist as Nice and cannes, yet..

[Montanan]

I'd skip Greece as well, especially this year ... in part because getting there overland is a minor pain in the butt, given the current political situation in the Balkans.

If this is your first Europe trip, I'd use London as the starting (rather than ending) point -- it'll be less of a culture shock initially since the people around you will be speaking English. Then you can work your way into progressively more challenging countries. A good choice would be to buy a return ticket home from Rome ... but if you're feeling brave, my recommendation would be Istanbul!

Otherwise, my main advice is to *not* just hit the major tourist cities of western Europe -- try to get off the beaten track just a little, to see some countryside and interact with a few of the locals. So many Americans/Canadians seem to just go from one big-city youth hostel to the next, and don't really interact with anyone except fellow backpackers. Not that there's anything wrong with that (*g*), but you'll have a much richer experience if you don't limit yourself that way.

As for places to go, well ... six weeks is nowhere enough, so you'll have to pick and choose. Personally, I think both England and France are a bit overrated ... if I were doing the trip I'd probably skip London entirely and start my travels in Amsterdam. I really love the Benelux countries and Scandinavia; Italy is wonderful, too. And you should absolutely try to spend at least a little time in eastern Europe, behind the former Iron Curtain -- it's cheaper, often less touristed, and in many ways far more interesting. In that arena, I'd *definitely* recommend a few days in the Czech Republic.

Finally, if you're feeling a bit more adventurous, the countries of the former Yugoslavia are truly fascinating ... and Turkey is just an amazing place to see.

Have a great time ... I'm jealous!

[brapper]

Originally posted by Montanan:
If this is your first Europe trip, I'd use London as the starting (rather than ending) point -- it'll be less of a culture shock initially since the people around you will be speaking English. Then you can work your way into progressively more challenging countries. A good choice would be to buy a return ticket home from Rome ... but if you're feeling brave, my recommendation would be Istanbul!

I think that I will use London, or rather the UK as a finishing point because of family connections and I'll probably have the least amount of money by then...

I may venture off the beaten tracks to go see some WWII battle sites, but I would very much like to see the BIG sites, you know?

[Stuphalina]

Man, I would join you, but I have bigger plans.

That's my goal for when I can get enough money.

Good luck. A friend of mine did it alone at 18, so I'm sure you'll be fine.

[effgee]

In general I absolutely agree with the "off-the-beaten-path" approach to traveling. But since this is going to be brapper's first trip to Europe (and he doesn't have enough time to see all of it) my suggestion would be to primarily cover the "major" places and plan for a few "un-tourist" activities along the road.

This way, he gets the best overview of a relatively large number of different countries/cultures without just rushing from one country to another - the laid back mediterraneans, the crazy Romans (I swear, you have never seen that many people talking on their cell phone as you will in Italy), the comfy "Alps" folks, the stiff and always stressed-out Krauts, the cool Danes as well as the liberal Dutch and the completely whacked out Brits.

After gathering a set of initial impressions, he can then go ahead and plan for a more in-depth second (third, fourth etc.) trip which should take him "beyond tourist lines". 6 weeks isn't even close to seeing a quarter of Europe - heck, you could probably spend three weeks in Rome (not in summer, though) and you still wouldn't have seen all the sights and tried all the foods.

Of course, there's a ton of great stuff to see - from the French Atlantic coast (Bretagne) to Hungary (Budapest, Balaton), to the Fjords of Norway (Oslo's way cool as well, btw) back down to Turkey (Istanbul) - but to include all of these in a round trip, you're gonna need a hell of a lot more time than 6 weeks.

So, this Old European™ recommends a round trip with a nice variety of all the "big sites" with a couple of "off-the-beaten-path" mini-trips sprinkled in.

Cheers,

eff

P.S. Let us know when you have a good idea of what places you're going to visit and I'll see that I can help out with a few "off-tourist" suggestions.

P.P.S. I forgot Paris in my list above - you could alter the route in my previous post like this "Kopenhagen" > "Amsterdam" > "Paris" > "London". This will give you a very nice impression of the contrast between two of the major European cities ...

P.P.S. "culture shock" is for babies you just gotta take the plunge.

(edited, because I still can't spell worth a doo-doo)

[brapper]

actually i should clear this up...
I've actually been to Europe when I was 13.
I went to Wales, London, Paris, and Amsterdam. Though, as I was 13 at the time, so I was really just swept away in it, and dont remember a whole lot, nor did I appreciate it for what it was worth.
So, hopefully this time around I'll do it right.
Also, not being there during August should really help because I'll remember about Paris is spending the equivalent of about $30 CDN a day on water....and being very disgruntled about it.
Thanks for all the advice so far...and I'll keep you updated as to what plans I come up with.

[Veronica]

Why don't you visit the great famous tourist places like Rome, London, Paris but also see the smaller cooler ones (literally) like Oslo and Reykjavik?

- - e r i k - - and I went to Rome this summer, and wow!!! But still Oslo, Norway is a place I guess you wouldn't easily visit anytime.

[brapper]

Originally posted by Veronica:
Why don't you visit the great famous tourist places like Rome, London, Paris but also see the smaller cooler ones (literally) like Oslo and Reykjavik?

- - e r i k - - and I went to Rome this summer, and wow!!! But still Oslo, Norway is a place I guess you wouldn't easily visit anytime.

actually, my dad and i were just talking about visiting the scandinavian countries should i have the chance. Apparently it's a regret of his, having never done so.

[brapper]

Originally posted by Sven G:
There are also some rather informative websites:

www.backpackingeurope.com

www.backpackingthrougheurope.com

www.bugeurope.com

www.eurotrip.com

www.oldcontinent.com

www.thebackpacker.net

... and so on...

thanks...I've bookmarked them all..

[historylme]

If you can go to Prague and Budapest go there. Vienna is beautiful but you can skip it. If you truly want the cultural BAMB with the old world architecture these two cities are it.

I lived in Budapest for four months and I lived like a king. Eastern europe is great and cheap. And for parties, well, I like the French, Spanish and Italians for that, but Eastern Europeans are amazing! And don't worry about the language.

As for traveling, get a europass and use erasable ink when marking the dates.... bad, yes it is, but when on a budget and press for time, it comes in handy.

When in London, stay at the "The Generator," reserve your ticket in advance, this place has it all, bars, internet, storage, free all you can eat breakfast, and every night it's a party so you dont' even have to go to bars, the party is always down stairs. They even give you two drinks per night that you stay there. You'll love it for all that it offers at Normal Brit prices (Which watch out for, the Pound will kill the dollar, so it maybe look cheaper, but it twice as expensive).

Good luck,
bon Chance
Buena Suerte
and in broken Hungarian, Vizson Latasara

[brapper]

So I've found a buddy to come along with me and we've worked out the countries that we're for sure going to visit.
Starting in London (airfare is the cheapest..) then to the north of france, the netherlands, germany, czech republic, austria, switzerland, italy, south of france, spain (hopefully seeing the running of the bulls, and then to Ibiza), west of france, and back to london.
We still need to decide the specific sites and cities we want to visit, but that's our route.

[Sherwin]

When in the UK, don't just stick to London like everyone else seems to. Check out some of the other tourist goodies on offer further up the country (i.e. Warwick Castle, Hadrian's Wall, Stonehenge, York, Chester, Ironbridge, Blue John Caverns, Snowdonia, etc., etc.).

Oh, and Lisbon's worth a day or two too if you're considering Iberia.

[vmpaul]

Second the recommendation for the Eurail pass. The trains go EVERYWHERE. It's the best way to travel.

We actually skipped the hostels and found inexpensive hotels and pensiones all around. It really wasn't that costly.

And DO get off the beaten path. The big cities (Rome, Paris, etc) are cool but after a few of them they get a bit tiresome because, well, they're big cities.

In Italy try to get to the Cinqueterra. It's a well known travel destination outside of Florence but it's classic italian coastline and hill towns. Beautiful. If you hit Portugal, head to the south and the beaches. Cheap, good food, wine, and beautiful women. And many pink British people on vacation.

[John C. Smith]

For starters, you may have problems with a one way ticket to Athens. When you get to Greece, customs are not going to be very excited that you have no return ticket from Greece, and they will ask what you are doing in the country. Make sure you have your return ticket from Heathrow (or wherever you're flying home from) to show to customs to prove that you are, in fact, leaving the EU before 6 months.

Bring stuff to read, you'll need it.

Don't give money to beggars.

Book accommodations in advance.

I think finishing in London is smart. There's nothing like being back in an English speaking country after a trip to the wild, and weird, continent. It's like being back in comfortable, familiar New England!

Have fun. Maybe I'll bump into you on a train somewhere.

[brapper]

Originally posted by John C. Smith:
For starters, you may have problems with a one way ticket to Athens. When you get to Greece, customs are not going to be very excited that you have no return ticket from Greece, and they will ask what you are doing in the country. Make sure you have your return ticket from Heathrow (or wherever you're flying home from) to show to customs to prove that you are, in fact, leaving the EU before 6 months.


Have fun. Maybe I'll bump into you on a train somewhere.

thanks, and yeah, I've actually changed my mind and am starting and finishing in the UK. Family stuff..

[Octo]

Six months ago, I went to Europe for the first time. I went with my girlfriend and her parents. Her father was stationed at CFB Lahr in Germany for roughly 15 years.

For our trip we flew into Paris, picked up our new vehicle. Through a buy-sell program. We spent a couple of days in Paris, on to Normandy, to the Alsace region, then to Garmish, Munich, and finally a few days in Southern France before flying out of Lyon.

Paris was just something that had to be visited, given its history and culture, but I'm not sure that I would ever go back.

Out of all the places that I went, I want to go back and spent more time in the Alsace region and Southern Germany. Both of these areas were alive with history and were just so cool given the people, food, and beer. Plus we also hit Oktoberfest.

If you like amusment parks, you have got to go to Europa-park near Lahr. We went for the day and I was completely blown away by the size and diversity of the park.

For electronics, I dragged along my Pismo, digital camera (Canon S30) with two spare batteries, and a borrowed mapping GPS. The GPS came in so handy because the memory of our guide has faded since he lived in Germany. On the first day in Paris we went through all three batteries in the camera, I was glade that I had the powerbook to drop the pictures into. After two weeks we had taken over 900 photos.

Some of the better pictures can be seen at http://octo.dyndns.org

[Freeflyer]

Eurail pass, best bargain in travel. Consider getting sleeper trains, saves on hotel costs and gets you where you're going without wasting travel time.

Join the Youth Hostel Association, some of the hostels are incredible, old castles etc. Cheap and you'll meet way more people staying in them than if you stay in hotels/motels. Same goes for camping, but you'll have to lug a heavier pack with you.

A lightweight sleeping bag is vital, even on the trains, some can be cold.

If you're heading for Amsterdam for the obvious reasons, get off the train at Central Station, walk out the front, go past the trams, keep walking straight ahead and turn left across the first bridge. On the corner is the Grasshopper, top floor's a restaurant, first floor's a bar, basement's a 'coffee shop'. Stop for refreshments and the city is yours to explore. Try the childrens museum which is full of hands on stuff and great when you're 'herbally amused'.

Have a great trip, you're going to love it.

J.

[Gee4orce]

If you come the the UK, don't limit yourself to London. It's a sh*thole, and unrepresentative of the rest of the country. Head west, down to Devon and Cornwall, then north throught Wales to Cumbria. Head up to Scotland if you have the time, then on the way back stop off at York (this is compulsory). Don't bother with Stonehenge. Fit in places like Wells and Chester if you can.

[John C. Smith]

Originally posted by Gee4orce:
If you come the the UK, don't limit yourself to London. It's a sh*thole

This is true.

But definitely steer clear of Glasgow! Yuck.

[benign]

Over there, over there,
Send the word, send the word over there--
That the Yanks are coming,
The Yanks are coming,
The drums rum-tumming
Ev'rywhere.
So prepare, say a pray'r,
Send the word, send the word to beware.
We'll be over, we're coming over,
And we won't come back till it's over
Over there.

[Nicko]

I'll add some,


like others have said, buy a eurail pass before you get there and roughly plan out your route. Also like others have said, sleep on the trains at night - saves $


- Most important thing! put a canadian flag on your pack - its like a chick magnet...
plus people won't think you are american (hey, it happens )

[engaged]

Originally posted by John C. Smith:
But definitely steer clear of Glasgow! Yuck.

Agreed - come to Edinburgh!

[brapper]

Originally posted by Nicko:
Most important thing! put a canadian flag on your pack - its like a chick magnet...
plus people won't think you are american (hey, it happens )

\
wouldn't want that!

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by Gee4orce:
Devon and Cornwall, then north throught Wales to Cumbria.
Don't bother with Stonehenge.

Dude... That's like saying "don't bother with the pyramids, just drive on past them".

Granted it's nowt special to us locals but this might be the guy's only/last visit here. It's like what, less than a hour out of his way if he's heading from Devon to Wales?

[ASIMO]

Originally posted by Nicko:
...
- Most important thing! put a canadian flag on your pack - its like a chick magnet...
plus people won't think you are american (hey, it happens )

Sadly, the most offensive travelers I encountered during my month-long sojourn in mainland Europe were Americans. Loud, obnoxious, drunken hooligans. One drunk bastard even found himself with a broken jaw after he slumbered into the wrong bed -- my bed -- and wouldn't leave.

Canadians were a distant second. But I will never forget one Canadian about my age whom I befriended on a train ride to Spain from France. Easily the coolest, kindest gentleman I have had the opportunity to call a friend.

Yes, do yourself a favor and get your butt on that backpacking in Europe. The end result will almost always be positive.

By the way, what do people think about a late 20s/early 30s person backpacking? Kinda over the hill by then?

[Jens Peter]

It sounds like you have planned your route already, but I'll say it anyway;
Come visit Denmark! In the summer it's great, beaches, partys, culture, nature, history.

When travelling, try to stop at one or more music festivals. There are a lot of them in the summer, and it's one big party with great music!

About the flag on your backpak, defenetly do that. It may sound mean, but often people got this idea of the behaviur of american turists...

Oh, learn to say yes, no, thank you in the countrys language - that always scores some cheap point with the locals.

But other than that, just have fun and meet new people!

[AppleCello]

DOnt know much about the backpacking myself. Im a student living in Paris and I havent done much exploring of europe besides whats nearby. In any event, Im really very poor especially now that I have basically Blasted through my reserves. im relying on parents until my internship starts.

I think I will be working here for a few years after I graduate, so i plan on doing some more extensive traveling then. for now, i will be visiting england where i have some (english) friends, and maybe a little bit in italy to see where my grandparents came from. that would be fun. I like the erasable ink idea...