[andreas_g4]

From the Apple Keynote Contest Website:


Void where prohibited or otherwise restricted by law. All federal, state, provincial, local or other jurisdictional laws and regulations apply. Due to Quebec�s legislative requirements this contest is not open to residents of that province.

Why is that so?

[Eug Wanker]

Quebec has always been "special"... err.. "distinct". (Perhaps this should be in the politics forum.)

[Kilbey]

Nothing.

[Tulkas]

They act like they're own little country while trying to separate every few years.

[GoGoReggieXPowars]

I found this out last year after asking some people why all the beer company contests don't operate in Quebec even though they sell across the country:

to have any sort of contest in Quebec, it needs to be registered and put through their Gambling and Gaming Authority, something like 6 or 8 months in advance of the starting date. Since most contests' and giveaways' timelines are far shorter than that, most companies simply don't bother to do it.

Plus all the costs associated with translation, designing for 2 languages, etc.

[Shaddim]

What's special about Quebec? You mean other than their butchery of the French language?

[GoGoReggieXPowars]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
What's special about Quebec? You mean other than their butchery of the French language?

LOL

[PacHead]

There's quite a few xenophobic, fascists in Quebec. I believe that's the place where they fine you if too much of a business sign is in English. Some people from there also act like the place is it's own country. I don't care much for Quebec, and I don't find much "special" about it.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by PacHead:
There's quite a few xenophobic, fascists in Quebec. I believe that's the place where they fine you if too much of a business sign is in English. Some people from there also act like the place is it's own country. I don't care much for Quebec, and I don't find much "special" about it.

To be fair, many of the anglos certainly don't help. I went on a trip with a bunch of Ontarians to Tremblant once, and all they could do was crack anti-Quebec and anti-French jokes in front of the Tremblant guides, all of whom were francophones.

No wonder some of them hate the anglos so much. English speakers can be just as bigoted as anyone else.

[paully dub]

I know, let's make fun of places we know nothing about, or at the least, we have probably never been to.

Here's when you get to prove how much you know about said place, and why you are qualified to make smart - arsed comments.

Besides, everyone knows that Saskatchewan is the most f�cked up province in Canada.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Even Apple knows they suck

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by paully dub:
Besides, everyone knows that Saskatchewan is the most f�cked up province in Canada.

Saskatchewan has the best weather in Canada during the summer, hands down.

[ryju]

Originally posted by paully dub:


Besides, everyone knows that Saskatchewan is the most f�cked up province in Canada.

HEY! I like Saskatchewan! It is pretty ****ed up though.

[Eug Wanker]

Open Saskatchewan?

[andreas_g4]

Originally posted by GoGoReggieXPowars:
I found this out last year after asking some people why all the beer company contests don't operate in Quebec even though they sell across the country:

to have any sort of contest in Quebec, it needs to be registered and put through their Gambling and Gaming Authority, something like 6 or 8 months in advance of the starting date. Since most contests' and giveaways' timelines are far shorter than that, most companies simply don't bother to do it.

Plus all the costs associated with translation, designing for 2 languages, etc.

That's what I wanted to know. Thanks.

[dtriska]

Quebec operates under civil law, while the rest of Canada uses common law. It dates back to the British Conquest in the 1700s.

As for Saskatchewan, that place is too bloody flat! Really nice people, but did I ever speed to get out of that province. The landscape is just so boring.

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Saskatchewan has the best weather in Canada during the summer, hands down.

And no beaches to enjoy it.

[ambush]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
Nothing.

Except we're the biggest french speaking country in America

[ambush]

Originally posted by PacHead:
There's quite a few xenophobic, fascists in Quebec. I believe that's the place where they fine you if too much of a business sign is in English.

Actually, they rarely do. But if they want money from us, they will display in French. It's how it works. More than 82% of Qu�bec speaks French as their main language.

Some people from there also act like the place is it's own country. I don't care much for Quebec, and I don't find much "special" about it.

Yes we should be a country because we're too different from the rest of Canada.

Besides, Canada sucks. The federal model sucks, and EVERY province is getting ripped-off by the federal government. We (49.95% last referendum) want our own country to preserve our culture, our language, our own lifestyle, etc.

By the way in 1995, we lost because Chr�tien passed a law that allowed immigrants to vote faster. Yep. We would be a country right now. Oh well, next time we get it for sure. I can't really blame immigrants, but they should know about Qu�bec better when they come here.

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
To be fair, many of the anglos certainly don't help. I went on a trip with a bunch of Ontarians to Tremblant once, and all they could do was crack anti-Quebec and anti-French jokes in front of the Tremblant guides, all of whom were francophones.

No wonder some of them hate the anglos so much. English speakers can be just as bigoted as anyone else.

True dat.

[Octo]

Originally posted by ambush:

By the way in 1995, we lost because Chr�tien passed a law that allowed immigrants to vote faster. Yep. We would be a country right now. Oh well, next time we get it for sure. I can't really blame immigrants, but they should know about Qu�bec better when they come here.

Let's see if we take away all of the immigrants and there offspring, I think that all we would have left here would be the NATIVES. Remember just because Quebec is predominantly french, doesn't mean that they belong here anymore than anyone else.

I have several friends who would consider themselves as true Qu�b�cois, they are highly succesful business people, they were waiting for the results in 95 and if the separatists had of won they were planning on picking up their families and moving them to Canada.

In one week I'm moving out of Quebec because of the narrow minded people, high taxes, and generally bad experience from living here.

Octo

[JHromadka]

I spent a couple weeks in Montreal earlier this year and found the people to be very friendly and helpful (the women are also very attractive)I do know people in Alberta though that have a very high distaste for Quebec though for various political reasons.

One thing I always found interesting when speaking to Quebecois was when they said the Anglos were racist -- there may be bigotry on both sides, but it's not racism.

[quandarry]

i wouldn't refer to quebecers as french. because they aren't...more like a pure bred mutt.

their ancestors go back farther than any other in america accept for the indians until the remaining get wiped out. things have kinda slowed down since they made laws against genocide.

but they have strange laws in quebec and they have police that are close to the mind police...called language police.

plus anyways quebec is no fun. the provincial government is corrupt, the quebecois that live there except for the canadians are acerbic...i don't blame apple or anyone avoiding anything to do with it.

ambush will corroborate this.

[olePigeon]

Quebec is so French their stop signs say "arr�t," even though in France they still spell it "stop."

[dlefebvre]

Originally posted by quandarry:
i wouldn't refer to quebecers as french. because they aren't...more like a pure bred mutt.

We are to France what Americans and Australians are to England.

their ancestors go back farther than any other in America accept for the indians until the remaining get wiped out. things have kinda slowed down since they made laws against genocide.

kind of like a big country just south of Canada...

but they have strange laws in quebec and they have police that are close to the mind police...called language police.

That is so exaggerated. It's not a police force, it's an organization that tries to protect the french language. They're not strict at all, there's so many English only signs in Montreal and nobody get arrested or fined.

plus anyways quebec is no fun. the provincial government is corrupt, the quebecois that live there except for the canadians are acerbic...i don't blame apple or anyone avoiding anything to do with it.

Like the American government is not corrupted. Name a government on the planet that's not corrupted. To quote an American comic I forgot �The difference between Toronto and Montreal? They're like brother's! One is an accountant and the other one is a womanizing, party loving alcoholic...�

[ambush]

Originally posted by Octo:
In one week I'm moving out of Quebec because of the narrow minded people, high taxes, and generally bad experience from living here.

Octo

Gonna miss U octo.

Sorry I could not resist.

Originally posted by quandarry:
but they have strange laws in quebec and they have police that are close to the mind police...called language police.

plus anyways quebec is no fun. the provincial government is corrupt, the quebecois that live there except for the canadians are acerbic...i don't blame apple or anyone avoiding anything to do with it.

ambush will corroborate this.

No real language police. It's a myth.

If a french speaking customer is not served in french, he has the right to complain to the Office de La Langue Fran�aise. That's how it works. Also, merchants are not allowed to have a banner with english only information. It's legitimate.

When everyone around you speaks English, you must take measures to protect your language. French is my language, my culture, I wanna keep it.

Also, we're far from being acerbic. It's like saying all americans are fat assed pro war morons. Please don't fall for generalization.

Provincial government is far less corrupted than the federal govt.

Just look at the Scandale des commandites.

[Octo]

Originally posted by ambush:

If a french speaking customer is not served in french, he has the right to complain to the Office de La Langue Fran�aise. That's how it works. Also, merchants are not allowed to have a banner with english only information. It's legitimate.

I can understand french speaking people wanting to be served in french, but what about the poor people, that don't understand a word of french. A couple of years ago, I was headed downtown and I was on the Decarie service road. A car pulled up beside me and asked if I spoke english, they were extremely happy that I did. They wanted to know how to get to one of the hotels downtown. I gave them quick directions, before traffic starting moving. At the next light, I was beside them again and I told them just to follow me, since I was headed downtown. They told me that they were going to go back to Ottawa because they couldn't find anything in Montreal.

I also have a bunch of friend from Atlantic Canada who would rather drive through the states then step foot inside of Quebec.

When everyone around you speaks English, you must take measures to protect your language. French is my language, my culture, I wanna keep it.
[/B]

My girlfriend is Acadian and her family has no problem maintaining their culture and heritage, without oppressive government regulations.

[acadian]

Well, I'm French-Canadian, Acadian to be specific. Although I was born in new Brunswick I've spent my entire life in Toronto, the centre of English Canada. New Brunswick, for all intents and purposes, is the most bilingual region in North America, if not the world. They do not have these sorts of culture/language conflicts. People, for the most part, get along just fine, without the need for language laws. If you are in a French speaking area, most of the signage is in French and vice-versa in the English areas. It's just common sense. Growing up in Toronto I've never once felt that my language or identity was threatened. Even though my family was the only French speaking family around that we knew of. "As long as we speak the language it will never be threatened", that's what my mother always said. And it's true. We had no need to flaunt our "distinctiveness" in anyone's face. People knew who and what we were, and it made no difference in how we were treated. While I can certainly sympathize with the Quebecoise in that there are a great deal of misconceptions about the nature of Quebec (usually from dim witted, English cowboy rednecks who say things like ...f$%#ing Frogs...and...they just want special treatment...), I can also admit that there does exist a high perecntage of paranoid and overly xenophobic Quebecer's who should relax and realize that everyone else is not out to get them.

[talisker]

Fair enough that in Quebec they're taking steps to preserve their language, but what is laughable is how everywhere in Canada government documents, signs, forms etc have to be bilingual French / English. What a waste of time. In Vancouver for instance there must be far more people speak Japanese as a first language than French.

[ambush]

Originally posted by talisker:
Fair enough that in Quebec they're taking steps to preserve their language, but what is laughable is how everywhere in Canada government documents, signs, forms etc have to be bilingual French / English. What a waste of time. In Vancouver for instance there must be far more people speak Japanese as a first language than French.

Ridiculous, agreed.

Yet another reason why separation is needed.

[ambush]

Originally posted by Octo:
I can understand french speaking people wanting to be served in french, but what about the poor people, that don't understand a word of french. A couple of years ago, I was headed downtown and I was on the Decarie service road. A car pulled up beside me and asked if I spoke english, they were extremely happy that I did. They wanted to know how to get to one of the hotels downtown. I gave them quick directions, before traffic starting moving. At the next light, I was beside them again and I told them just to follow me, since I was headed downtown. They told me that they were going to go back to Ottawa because they couldn't find anything in Montreal.

Same thing applies for "the poor people, that don't understand a word of English".

My girlfriend is Acadian and her family has no problem maintaining their culture and heritage, without oppressive government regulations.

Different situation. Ask her about "la d�portation des Acadiens". NB and IPE are very small provinces.

I also have a bunch of friend from Atlantic Canada who would rather drive through the states then step foot inside of Quebec.

Too bad. What can I say? They're afraid of French maybe? I don't know/care.

[Tulkas]

Originally posted by dtriska:
Quebec operates under civil law, while the rest of Canada uses common law. It dates back to the British Conquest in the 1700s.

As for Saskatchewan, that place is too bloody flat! Really nice people, but did I ever speed to get out of that province. The landscape is just so boring.

Saskatchewan: Even the cows look bored

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by talisker:
Fair enough that in Quebec they're taking steps to preserve their language, but what is laughable is how everywhere in Canada government documents, signs, forms etc have to be bilingual French / English. What a waste of time. In Vancouver for instance there must be far more people speak Japanese as a first language than French.

Chinese maybe, but Japanese? Not a chance... unless you're a tourist.

[Tulkas]

Originally posted by talisker:
Fair enough that in Quebec they're taking steps to preserve their language, but what is laughable is how everywhere in Canada government documents, signs, forms etc have to be bilingual French / English. What a waste of time. In Vancouver for instance there must be far more people speak Japanese as a first language than French.

Because overall the top two languages are english and french so its very convenient for french people. Although ironically most of them are bilingual.

[acadian]

Different situation. Ask her about "la d�portation des Acadiens". NB and IPE are very small provinces.

Different situation indeed but certainly not a good one to illustrate your point. The English at the very least signed the Treaty of Paris which gave specific protections to Quebec, token or otherwise. No such luxury was afforded the Acadians. We had nothing. We were deported and but for the grace of god, a little help from some of my ancestors and a lot of determination, there would be no more Acadians left at all.

[DBursey]

To Ambush and other separatists: You must be unaware of the contradictory nature of your posts here. You wish to separate from Canada to preserve your language and culture, and cite Canada's official languages policy as another 'reason' for separation.

Canada's official bilingualism acts to protect your language and culture! All products / services across Canada must be provided in both english and french. With a population of 31 million, Canada's market size allows her to insist that products /services be provided in both english and french.

If Quebec were to separate, Canada would revert to English only. Quebec, with a population of only 8 million, would then be surrounded by a sea of english speakers, with no 'bilingual buffer' (i.e. Canada's official bilingualism) in which to protect the language. Can you honestly see the rest of North America committing the expense of providing those goods & services in french to such a small market?

Oh, and quandarry; Quebecois aren't the oldest culture in North America. I believe that distinction would go to Newfoundland.

[acadian]

Oh, and quandarry; Quebecois aren't the oldest culture in North America. I believe that distinction would go to Newfoundland.

Certainly not the first european presence in North America, but the oldest surviving European presence.

[AppleCello]

Thanks to my family's vacations to Quebec when I was younger, I became interested in studying french rather than spanish when i started middle school (in pennsylvania). I always continued studying french throughout high school, and then in my second year of university, i realized how much i love the language and history and litterature etc. So its my second major now. thanks to all of that, Im sitting here in Paris right now working in a french company (only english speaker in the place actually) and its fantastic.

As for "butchering" the french language, Many Parisians have told me that the Quebec french is actually derived from a much older french that was the standard in Europe during the colonial period. Since then, its obviously developed, as has modern continental fernch, but in different directions.

Ambush, maybe you have some insight on that?

Patrick

[acadian]

"Quebecoise" and "Acadiene" for that matter are both languages frozen in time. You're right, the continental French language has evolved but here in Canada it has pretty remained the same for the past few centuries.

[Oisín]

Originally posted by acadian:
"Quebecoise" and "Acadiene" for that matter are both languages frozen in time. You're right, the continental French language has evolved but here in Canada it has pretty remained the same for the past few centuries.

I won't pretend to be an authority on Qu�bec French, because I honestly don't know much about it. But if it has indeed "pretty [much] remained the same for the past few centuries", then it would be the only living and colloquially used language in the world that has, I'd say. Of course it's developped, languages do that.

I don't know what the standard is now, but I've seen examples that a little over a hundred years ago it was common in the countryside to use the pass� simple in daily speech, while in the cities, they used the pass� compos�. Since cities are normally the "vanguard" of linguistic changes, I would guess the pass� simple is not often used in Qu�bec French anymore (as in France). Is this correct?

[undotwa]

Originally posted by Ois�n:
I won't pretend to be an authority on Qu�bec French, because I honestly don't know much about it. But if it has indeed "pretty [much] remained the same for the past few centuries", then it would be the only living and colloquially used language in the world that has, I'd say. Of course it's developped, languages do that.

I don't know what the standard is now, but I've seen examples that a little over a hundred years ago it was common in the countryside to use the pass� simple in daily speech, while in the cities, they used the pass� compos�. Since cities are normally the "vanguard" of linguistic changes, I would guess the pass� simple is not often used in Qu�bec French anymore (as in France). Is this correct?

The English expressions used in the United States are often more archaic than that of the England. (For example 'fall' instead of 'autumn', fall was used in Shakesperean times.) As soon as the countries split, each took its own evolutionary path. Same as Qu�bec French I would assume.

[ghost_flash]

So, Quebec didn't evolve then?

[undotwa]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
So, Quebec didn't evolve then?

All languages evolve, just in different ways.

[talisker]

Originally posted by Tulkas:
Because overall the top two languages are english and french so its very convenient for french people. Although ironically most of them are bilingual.

In Quebec that's valid, but in the whole of Canada? It smacks of a political decision rather than anything based on practicality. A related situation exists in Scotland, where certain areas still have a fair number of Gaelic speakers, and in theory you can still find a few 95 year olds kicking about who only speak Gaelic. In these areas, roadsigns, government forms, signs at post offices, libraries, banks etc are all bilingual, but not in the rest of the country. What would be the point?

[angaq0k]

Qu�bec is a province that covers an area 3 times that of France. A third of that territory is inhabited by about 9000 people (Nunavik Region). The great majority (8 million+) of the population is located along the Saint-Laurent.

French is spoken in by the majority, but so is English. The number of bilinguals is constantly on the rise, and rare are the people who could not speak English, except outside of the urban areas. Those who do not wish to speak English do so for their own business. I know there are biggots anywhere, whtever the Nation they come from, and Qu�b�cois, of French or English language are no different. People are the same from one place or another...

The Qu�b�cois are often sensible to the fact that they were abandonned to the English, and yet, seen as a "race" to be destroyed by the latter (see the policies of MacDonald). The history of our province follows one of colonialism maintaining a rule under Catholic and political conservatism. Rare were the very Educated and rich French Speaking.

Regarding the separatism movement, the separation will not happen, since it is part of a very radical minority group, to which many subscribes for fear of losing their culture. The language police is ineeficient most of the times, and in the end, everybody turns into a winner, since it provides good business for whoever wants to make money. Common sense is all.

The Qu�b�cois are not all French in origin. My family, from my father's side dates from the beginning of the colony, while on my mother's, we have Irish and British ancestry. Plus a mix of First Nation... French is one way to identify ourselves. But there is more than that.

And Qu�bec is not limited to the French speaking. Move North, and the geography changes, as well as the people.

I lived and worked with the Cree (James Bay) and the Inuit (Hudson Bay) for more than 20 years. I was also born in the woods, in a small construction camp that does not exist anymore, by the Manicouagan crater, one of the last attempt at pillaging the area of its resources to feed the South with electricity.

There are many types of Qu�b�cois; move from one region to the other and people are different, sometimes, very different. The language takes a color that is just as worth appreciating as the color of the speeches of texans and New Yorkers. Nothing wrong with that; people are people, the way they think is best for themselves, and everybody else can gain from learning about these differences.

Myself, I lived in Vancouver, Toronto, Fort St-John B.C.. I also travelled around the country for pleasure, and although my heart belongs to Qu�bec, Canada is a country I appreciate just as much.

If I had listen to my first impulses I would never have stayed in any of the English provinces. With time, I learned to appreciate and accept there was more than my first perceptions, my prejudice.

It takes a lifetime to know oneself. How long does it take to know someone else?

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by talisker:
In Quebec that's valid, but in the whole of Canada? It smacks of a political decision rather than anything based on practicality. A related situation exists in Scotland, where certain areas still have a fair number of Gaelic speakers, and in theory you can still find a few 95 year olds kicking about who only speak Gaelic. In these areas, roadsigns, government forms, signs at post offices, libraries, banks etc are all bilingual, but not in the rest of the country. What would be the point?

It's about culture, heritage, history, sense of identity.

It's about not being forgotten, and instead, thrive for what we are. Nothing to do with patriotism, or at least, not as a goal. It is about identity.

That's why some people refuses to call themselves English, because they recognize themselves as Australian, Scots, Irish, etc.

In Rwanda, they are not French, they are Rwandais, and French is one of the languages, and it is part of their history, their identity, etc.

[dtriska]

On the topic of separation, here's one of the main problems Canadians have with the sovereignty movement. The referendums aren't about sovereignty; they are about "sovereignty association," an ill-defined concept that simply confuses the voters into thinking that an affirmative vote can still keep Quebec in Canada.

This is the reason for the Clarity Act, which I'm glad was passed, as well as the Supreme Court opinion on Quebec separation.

Thankfully, support for separation is low in Quebec. Sovereignty association is the reason it seems like all Quebeckers want out of Canada.

[quandarry]

quebec is like velcro.

[ambush]

Originally posted by Ois�n:
I won't pretend to be an authority on Qu�bec French, because I honestly don't know much about it. But if it has indeed "pretty [much] remained the same for the past few centuries", then it would be the only living and colloquially used language in the world that has, I'd say. Of course it's developped, languages do that.

I don't know what the standard is now, but I've seen examples that a little over a hundred years ago it was common in the countryside to use the pass� simple in daily speech, while in the cities, they used the pass� compos�. Since cities are normally the "vanguard" of linguistic changes, I would guess the pass� simple is not often used in Qu�bec French anymore (as in France). Is this correct?

It's used a LOT (and is essential). But ONLY in litterature.

I could not imagine writing a story w/o using pass� simple.

Perhaps ambush can explain this to me.

If Quebec needs government laws to "preserve" their culture, then is there really a culture there to preserve? Isn't a culture basically the actions, values, language, and rituals of a group of people, and not there government? If, without government laws, those actions, values, language, and rituals change, isn't that just culture evolving? If these are mandated by government, then Quebec's "culture" becomes artificial.

[Oisín]

Originally posted by ambush:
It's used a LOT (and is essential). But ONLY in litterature.

I could not imagine writing a story w/o using pass� simple.

That was what I meant - that it's only used in written language. That's a development, obviously (but IIRC, you weren't the one who said that Quebec French hadn't evolved).