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Apr 27, 2001, 08:02 AM

Hey,

I was wondering. Apple promised to get CD-RW and DVD support in OSX by the end of April. Well......I'm waiting.
No 10.0.2 builds have leaked so what does this mean?
Is security tighter or are they just gonna wait longer?
I wonder

edddeduck · Apr 27, 2001, 09:11 AM

One of 3 things

1. Tighter Security
2. Still writing the code not ready for a beta release
3. Both of the above...

I vote for 3... anyone else???

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I Took The Red Pill

BRussell · Apr 27, 2001, 09:21 AM

I've been wondering, too. Maybe they won't release an OS update for this - it could just be a Disc Burner & DVD Player, and not qualify as a 10.0.2. If that's the case, they probably don't use the same amount of beta testing, so it doesn't get released very widely, and it doesn't get on the pirate sites.

They could be just putting their time into the next real update - 10.1 - for July, and that's not far enough along yet to be tested widely.

Or, they could have decided to just cease all work on OS X

.

edddeduck · Apr 27, 2001, 09:30 AM

Yes I think you could be right except I hope not as I want them to release a Proper fix for the modem bug....

But yes it could be a software only update..

Getting close to 100 posts ....

Do I get a party......???

Come on guys a 733MP would be great !!!

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I Took The Red Pill

ablaze · Apr 27, 2001, 09:37 AM

I think Apple wanted the other bulds to be leaked to have a better beta-testing. I think May 1st could have real surprises... so they probably don't want a public beta-testing. Just my � 0,02 !

Cipher13 · Apr 27, 2001, 09:39 AM

Exactly.
The reason it hasn't leaked yet is because Apple hasn't let it...

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[This message has been edited by Cipher13 (edited 04-27-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Cipher13 (edited 04-27-2001).]

snodman · Apr 27, 2001, 09:55 AM

I'll bet we see it this weekend, maybe even later today (the Power to Burn OS X update).

snodman · Apr 27, 2001, 09:58 AM

By the way, DVD support is not promised for April. It is promised for "later in the spring" (Think early June).

Oneota · Apr 27, 2001, 10:31 AM

Do you honestly think Apple is leaking software on purpose?? C'mon....that's not bloody likely.

What's more likely is that Apple is seeding its OS updates to its major developers (Microsoft, Adobe, Palm, etc), and some of the shadier characters at THOSE places are leaking the updates. I highly doubt that Apple is uploading their unreleased software to 15-year-old-Billy-Jones's Hotline server.

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"Give me ambiguity or give me something else!"

edddeduck · Apr 27, 2001, 10:42 AM

No...

Apple don't deliberately upload to 15 year old billy's machine BUT they look at the list they give it out to and depending on the imporance they will

1. Give it to a VERY small trusted group.
2. All major developers (Paid up apple developers)

By doing 2 they know billy will get a copy. They give stuff to people who are not trust worthy thus they get a 'leak'. Governments have been doing this for years.

That's what everyone means by apple leaking stuff they do it indirectly.

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I Took The Red Pill

bleen · Apr 27, 2001, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Exactly.
The reason it hasn't leaked yes is because Apple hasn't let it...

Good point Cipher... it's funny how Steve can have things tightly sealed up in security... and some things are leaked out faster then anything.

It's all apart of Apple's Consipracy.

Apr 27, 2001, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by snodman:
By the way, DVD support is not promised for April. It is promised for "later in the spring" (Think early June).

Called my apple support , they said Apple promises to deliver DVD support in April. Now mind 2 things:

1� It sounded like a 15 year old on the phone so he "heard" it from his supervisor.

2* This is freakin' Belgium. Nobody know jack sh*t about anything here. If you call the macintosh support line from my provider I get patched through about X times untill someone figures out I'm not talking about fruit here.

edddeduck · Apr 27, 2001, 10:56 AM

Yup, I am in England (actually Scotland) here and when I phone tech support I end up telling them how I fixed it.....

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I Took The Red Pill

ablaze · Apr 27, 2001, 11:09 AM

But I think the "Apple lets builds leak"-theorie (ALBL-theorie) contrdicts the rumour that OSX 10.1 will be realesed at May 1st. In fact for this one they need real beta-testing, as they needed it for 4K78. Another � 0,02

Apr 27, 2001, 11:21 AM

Don't you think Apple will wait until the Developer's conference on May 21 to ship the next build of OSX? That's pretty much a no-brainer.

ablaze · Apr 27, 2001, 11:24 AM

A reader: They promised CD-Burner for April... Perhaps that can be done without OS-change... hhmm. I thought May 21st would be for the dvd-player.

GnOm · Apr 27, 2001, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by edddeduck:
Yup, I am in England (actually Scotland) here and when I phone tech support I end up telling them how I fixed it.....

LOL
almost the same here in Germany, sad enough.

bye

BRussell · Apr 27, 2001, 01:32 PM

Same in the US.

The only two times I've ever talked to anyone from Apple tech support, I had these conversations:

Apple tech support: "blah blah the Start Menu blah blah."
Me: "Huh?"
Apple: "You know, the Start menu."
Me: "I'm talking to Apple, right?"
Apple: "Yeah."
Me: "Then why are you talking to me about Windows."
Apple: "I'm just using an analogy."

Another conversation with a different tech support person:
Apple tech support: "Remove all third-party extensions, like Conflict Catcher or Quicktime."
Me: "Quicktime is a third-party extension?"
Apple: "Yes."
Me: "You mean Apple doesn't make Quicktime?"
Apple: "No. It's from a third party."
Me: "**&&$!#! can I talk to someone who knows what the !#@&^% they're talking about!" (feeling guilty a minute later for chewing out some high school girl making $5 an hour)

ablaze · Apr 27, 2001, 01:35 PM

That third party story is really great! *LOL*

snodman · Apr 27, 2001, 01:53 PM

At the last press event (the thing on May 1 is also a press event) 3 days before OS X 10.0 was released Steve Jobs first fessed up about no CDR/CDRW in the March 24th shipping version. No DVD support had been acknowledged weeks before, but the lack of CDR/RW was more of a last minute oops. It was at that event that Steve Jobs said to look for the missing Power to Burn capabilities for OS X "in April". He also said DVD would take longer ("later in the spring"), but would be delivered before the July MWNY show where Apple will introduce an even more complete version of OS X (the one that gets pre-loaded onto all new Macs at that time).

PerfectlyNormalBeast · Apr 27, 2001, 02:17 PM

Builds generally aren't leaked from apple. They are leaked from developers who have been seeded builds. Maybe the iTunes 1.2 with burning hasn't been seeded. It's only an update to the core OS in terms of the IO kit.

Geobunny · Apr 27, 2001, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by edddeduck:
Yes I think you could be right except I hope not as I want them to release a Proper fix for the modem bug....

But yes it could be a software only update..

Well, they're not gonna update your hardware, are they?!

Originally posted by edddeduck:
Yup, I am in England (actually Scotland) here

Hey hey HEY! Wash your mouth out! When was the last time Edinburgh was in England?!

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Just face it - some days you're the pigeon, some days you're the statue!

NeilCharter · Apr 27, 2001, 03:31 PM

Me: "**&&$!#! can I talk to someone who knows what the !#@&^% they're talking about!" (feeling guilty a minute later for chewing out some high school girl making $5 an hour)

Where does Apple get all these young girls from. Sounds a bit dodgy to me.

Back to topic: Sadly I think the only thing that is going to be released is CD burner support (actually I'll be happy with that).

Plus maybe new iBooks.

It seems to me that Apple has shifted from making all their announcements at the big meets. Now they can announce stuff every month and keep themselves in the limelight and also make it appear that they are not stagnating.

Neil

Toyin · Apr 27, 2001, 03:50 PM

What I found interesting is how 10.01 was build 4L13 which never got leaked. We heard and saw build 4L5 & 4L7 and suddenly nothing. If Apple doesn't want a build leaked, it won't be leaked.

Personally I believe the indirect leak theory. Apple knows that builds sent to all their developers will be leaked. It's their way of unofficially beta testing builds.

All that said and done, I predict May 1st won't bring anything too exciting for OSX

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-Toyin

ToyinFayemi.com

Apr 27, 2001, 04:08 PM

Suppose the "Apple leaks builds intentionally" theory was true.
Why did @mac.com accounts get deleted and was apple so strict on making sure people didn't have an internal build on their iDisk?

Ybot · Apr 27, 2001, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by Mr_Frost:

Suppose the "Apple leaks builds intentionally" theory was true.
Why did @mac.com accounts get deleted and was apple so strict on making sure people didn't have an internal build on their iDisk?

Keeping up appearances?

NeilCharter · Apr 27, 2001, 04:39 PM

Apple probably does know which subset of developers (really it only needs to be one) leaks builds, but because they need to have a wide field of beta testers they cannot limit testing to a trusted few.

I don't think having 4K78 available 1-2 weeks before its release helped Apple. A lot of people seemed disappointed that there wasn't a new mysterious build for the release and that was reflected a bit in some of the posts in forums like this.

For the reason above, Apple couldn't stop the build leaking onto hotline etc and they cannot control the distribution unless they go to court (which would be pointless). However they do control the idisk and there's no way in hell that they would let people distribute leaked software on their own servers - would you in their situation?

Neil

Apr 27, 2001, 04:59 PM

I just hope Apple has a lot for us in petto.
I'm really liking OSX as it is but I miss some essentiel applications at this point that still make me reboot in OS9.1. And CD-RW is not one of them. Neither is DVD support (Owning PS2 and an all region Pioneer DVD cause this

) I need Codewarrior , PS , Dreamweaver , etc....

Apr 27, 2001, 07:27 PM

I was until this April an Apple developer (at the $500 level). Apple has never released to us any MacOS X release but Rapsody, Dev release 1-2,... the Public beta and 4K78. Nothing between.
Only MacOS "classic" allowed use to download serval beta version before each release.

If your developer theory is true, then it must be a $3500 member or above. Also never did Apple stated that people paying $3000 more would get more MacOS X releases or special build.

It's why I think that the number of developer actually getting builds is very very small.

booboo · Apr 27, 2001, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by Toyin:
What I found interesting is how 10.01 was build 4L13 which never got leaked. We heard and saw build 4L5 & 4L7 and suddenly nothing. If Apple doesn't want a build leaked, it won't be leaked.

Isn't 4L13 identical to 4L7 apart from a driver, or a name, or something?

snodman · Apr 27, 2001, 09:01 PM

Right. That is what I have read (that the versions of the files which actually got changed in 4L7 and 4L13 were identical). Those updates got sent to the whole paying developer list (including even the student developers, I believe). Apple probably wanted pretty wide feedback before they released it as a field update, but the Hotline stuff may be why NOBODY but the chosen few seem to have been beta testing the Power to Burn OS X update.

plaidpjs · Apr 27, 2001, 10:37 PM

First... from a business standpoint, it only makes sense for Apple to "allow" leaks. They get the benefit of real-world beta-testing, without the aggravation of support, and the ability to shout someone down, if they suddenly start screaming how an "unofficial" update completely destroyed their system, took down their netork, and erased a years worth of back-ups (exaggeration but hoepfully you understand my point. It's like the developers become a liability shield and a financial stop-gap.

The bit about Apple shutting down user accounts for posting the "unofficial" updates is simply legal posturing to avoid the developer liability shield being broken (i.e., no one can say that they got it from someone off of mac.com, therefore it wasn't truly "unofficial" because Apple had to know it was posted on their servers. After deleting the posts and closing the people's accounts, Apple can say, hey, wesaw someone had pirated the build and posted it on our site, and as quickly as possible we got it off, so, of course, we're not liable for any of these problems.

Just my $.02 worth on that.

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G4/500 DP, 768 MB RAM, 40GB HDD, 32MB ATI Radeon OEM, 30GB VST Firewire Drive, and an Apple Cinema Display

Pismo Of Ages · Apr 28, 2001, 10:01 AM

well all i know is somethin big is coming out on tuesday the 1st

Pismo

Apr 28, 2001, 10:26 AM

So you can possitively say that you KNOW something big is coming out on the first. So it's not just you hoping that it will....you know for sure.
That leaves only one question....HOW?

Spirit_VW · Apr 28, 2001, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by Mr_Frost:
So you can possitively say that you KNOW something big is coming out on the first. So it's not just you hoping that it will....you know for sure.
That leaves only one question....HOW?

Umm...DUH...he has a psychic cow...geez, people, it's not THAT hard...

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Kevin Buchanan
The Spirit of Volkswagen
The Retro New Beetle Headquarters
Webmaster, Fort Worth VolksFolks Club

snodman · Apr 28, 2001, 04:41 PM

What is the old joke? "I COULD tell you, but then I'd have to shoot you...."

Apr 28, 2001, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by snodman:
What is the old joke? "I COULD tell you, but then I'd have to shoot you...."

So shoot me...but I really have to know !!
guess if nothing comes on may 1st you guys will be so embaressed huh?

plaidpjs · Apr 28, 2001, 08:48 PM

Originally posted by snodman:
What is the old joke? "I COULD tell you, but then I'd have to shoot you...."

"I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you."

Just being a stickler for correct quotes... LOL

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G4/500 DP, 768 MB RAM, 40GB HDD, 32MB ATI Radeon OEM, 30GB VST Firewire Drive, and an Apple Cinema Display

JLL · Apr 29, 2001, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by snodman:
Those updates got sent to the whole paying developer list (including even the student developers, I believe).

Not even Select members got 4L5 and 4L7 - only Premier members.

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JLL

macvillage.net · Apr 29, 2001, 02:24 PM

I believe Apple has leaked that missing features would be implemented in 10.1 not 10.0.2, so I think it will be a somewhat large update. I doubt it is coming on May 1, but I guess we will just have to wait and see.

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Robert Accettura
Owner/Webmaster ofhttp://www.macvillage.net

Apr 29, 2001, 03:29 PM

Yea...I guess may 1st is not an option either. I'm thinking more in the line of 20th of may something....
I'd like to see it happen earlier but I guess waiting is te only option.
I hope they fix those damn ghost folders who keep popping up even after deleting them.

t_hah · Apr 29, 2001, 06:30 PM

Yep...maybe SJ said that CD burning and DVD playback will be released for OSX in April...but guys, do you want to get a beta CD W software that can screw up your CD disks and stability of the system? Can you maybe wait a little more (burn your CDs in OS 9 and watch DVDs there too) till Apple releases Cd W and DVD support?
I would really rather wait.
Because if they release it early what will happen?
People will be complaining all over the place...my Cd W sw crashes...my Dvd playback is so slow...etc.

Come on people you have been doing this with OSX as well. Complaining on so many threads how slow OSX is. Just give it some time.
Apple is working on it. That is something I am very sure about.

They will release the support when they feel like it is good enough. Till now, just wait and stop complaining.

t

[This message has been edited by t_hah (edited 04-29-2001).]

Scott_H · Apr 29, 2001, 06:40 PM

Apple needs to start making some deadlines for once. It's not my fault they can't ship a bug free feature complete OS on time. If they need to they should hire some more programmers. WTF have they been doing for the past 3 years?

They way Apple is going, that is dropping features and support and not fixing bug, OS X wont be finished and usable until mid 2002. I can't wait that long.

[This message has been edited by Scott_H (edited 04-29-2001).]

Apr 29, 2001, 07:59 PM

Apple supposedly saved years and years of development time by buying NEXT, a "complete" and time proven OS... yet basic functionality is still a problem and the OS is quirky as all heck (and yes, I use OSX almost exclusively). Not to mention speed... whenever I boot up into OS9, or into my 733 Mhz Pentium III at work, I remember what speed is.

I can wait a bit, but Apple needs to put it's entire "A" team on OSX and get moving, now.

davidski · Apr 29, 2001, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by Scott_H:
They way Apple is going, that is dropping features and support and not fixing bug, OS X wont be finished and usable until mid 2002. I can't wait that long.

As someone who has waited for this since about 1994, I have found I can wait a very long time. Don't bail - or you'll miss a great ride.

edddeduck · Apr 29, 2001, 08:12 PM

Well we will find out either way in less than 48 hours....

Expect nothing then everything is a bonus...

DVD hope hope hope

*fingers crossed*

*quickly prays to god*

God replies that Steve better get it right as OS X is alittle slow on his Ti Book

(Add a little humor to break the monotany)

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I Took The Red Pill

Apr 29, 2001, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by Scott_H:

They way Apple is going, that is dropping features and support and not fixing bug, OS X wont be finished and usable until mid 2002. I can't wait that long.

Buh-bye. Don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out. You won't be missed.

Enjoy the dreck of the Windows XP GUI.

edddeduck · Apr 29, 2001, 08:53 PM

Scott...

Isn't that like saying well the Ti Book isn't as fast as the Ti Book that will be released next year and I cannot wait that long....

Apple had to release the code to get developers on board. And they are getting on board and within 6 months there will be a mass of apps which never would have made it to 9.

But I guess I always see the glass as half full not empty....

But we are all welcome to our own opinions well at least once....

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I Took The Red Pill

clebin · Apr 30, 2001, 06:10 AM

Originally posted by Scott_H:
Apple needs to start making some deadlines for once. It's not my fault they can't ship a bug free feature complete OS on time. If they need to they should hire some more programmers. WTF have they been doing for the past 3 years?

No OS is ever released on time - I've waited for ever for OS X and the fabled AmigaOS 4.0 from a succession of different owners.

It says something about you that you should spend 3 years waiting for it, become a moderator on an OS X forum and then abandon the platform when something exists that you can actually use.

Before making a decision you might regret, dual boot your machine with OS X and Linux and let 'natural selection' take its course for 6 months. I wouldn't mind betting that OS X gets the lion's share of your time.

Chris

Cipher13 · Apr 30, 2001, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by edddeduck:
Scott...

Isn't that like saying well the Ti Book isn't as fast as the Ti Book that will be released next year and I cannot wait that long....

No. Because THIS Ti is not slower than the Pismo

I've been waiting for this since before Rhapsody. And look what it is now. What a dreadful mess, and a waste of time.

If they didn't spend all their time on a crappy, controversial GUI, they might actually get some real work done - cause OSX sure doesn't reflect the time thats been put into it.

Cipher13

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