[macintologist]

It's the same kind of way Hitler worked. You wanna get people hating one another.

This is biological, humans NEED an enemy. The value of having an enemy by which to organize a social unit is absolutely fundamental to fascism.

Humans ranging from the most primitive to the most sophisticated form cozy in-groups that assault outsiders, clumping together as competitive superorganisms.

Killing real people is forbidden, but folks beyond the boundaries of our own superorganism aren't really people, and are fair game.

One man's God is another man's Devil.

Lenin was born into a supremely middle-class family, but he dressed in the unmistakable clothing of a worker, adopted worker's slang and encouraged his followers to do the same. Then he pointed to an enemy with a radically different style of couture and speech, the coiffed bourgeoisie.

Castro upon taking power said he was for democratic changes and freedom. Selling totalitarianism would be tough, wouldn't it? So he appointed figures of indisputable moderate credentials to his presidential cabinet, but also established a shadow gov't full of his supporters. President Urrutia was a pawn of Castro's to make his changes look more democratic. Then Castro began to smear his name as be consolidated more power within the gov't. He then pretended to resign, saying that the American devil (the enemy, right?) had conspired with Urrutia to force the people's revolutionary hero out of office.

Castro played upon the fear of America in his people to consolidate power and eliminate social freedoms. He said anybody who conspired with the Americans were traitors, and he used this pretext to send hundreds of innocent people to concentration camps.

There was one great tool for "keeping the revolutionary spirit alive", and that tool was an enemy.

In this same way, this biological inclination of ours to form groups of "Us vs them" is a cornerstone to human nature. We create enemies to organize ourselves. We use perceptual tricks to manufacture devils, such as hyping an external threat.

Bush does it. Terrorists hate freedom and want to see civilization destroyed.

Castro does it. America is a threat to the Revolution. (see Bay of Pigs invasion)

Hitler did it. The Jews and Communists are terrorists and a threat to the Aryan race and Drittes Reich. (see Mein Kampf)

Stalin did it. The capitalist pigs and the Bourgeoisie threaten social justice and the Revolution.

Lincoln did it. "A disruption of the Federal Union, heretofore only menaced, is now formidably attempted." (see First Inaugural Address)

Humans do it. Evil is a by-product of nature's strategies for creation and are woven into our most basic biological fabric.

[typoon]

[NYCFarmboy]

[macintologist]

Originally posted by typoon:

Oh my what a brilliant response! You've driven me to my argumentative knees!

[Millennium]

You assume that Bush works by getting people to hate one another. You have, however, shown no evidence whatsoever that this is so.

[macintologist]

Originally posted by Millennium:
You assume that Bush works by getting people to hate one another. You have, however, shown no evidence whatsoever that this is so.

Telling us to hate the enemy. Remember, killing people is bad, but anyone who operates outside the realm of our superoganism is fair game.

[BRussell]

I think he's more like Darrin from Bewitched. The second Darrin, not the first, of course.

[Wiskedjak]

There really is nothing very unique about the political strategies employed by Hitler to manipulate the people. Almost any effective leader employs the same strategies, be they dictator or elected. That's why almost everyone can be compared with him. The main difference about Hitler is what he used those strategies to achieve.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by BRussell:
I think he's more like Darrin from Bewitched. The second Darrin, not the first, of course.

That makes complete sense!

If you REALLY think about it... Bush is like the Atari... the 5600, not the 2600.

[mitchell_pgh]

P.S. Godwin's law

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

[mitchell_pgh]

So by your standard, Lincoln is also like Hitler?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
P.S. Godwin's law

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Can Godwin's Law be invoked on a thread about comparing someone with Hitler? Usually Godwin's Law is invoked when Hitler is mentioned in a discussion completely unrelated to Hitler.

[budster101]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
There really is nothing very unique about the political strategies employed by Hitler to manipulate the people. Almost any effective leader employs the same strategies, be they dictator or elected. That's why almost everyone can be compared with him. The main difference about Hitler is what he used those strategies to achieve.

Y'all are on crack.

I'm sorry, I missed the part where 11 million people have been slaughtered in ovens, gas chamber (showers), shot,tortured, experimented on while alive, or just blown up in order for him to become president and rule the world.

Hitler was a sick fcuk! and to compare any politician to him is fcuking stupid.

Spreading democracy, yeah, right, that's just what Hitler would have wanted to do...


Now I know where the Democrats earned the DONKEY as their symbol. Jacka$$es.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by budster101:
Now I know where the Democrats earned the DONKEY as their symbol. Jacka$$es.

Did you even read my post? Even liberal politicians can be compared with Hitler. The strategies employed by Hitler are not uncommon and can be used for good goals. It's what Hitler used those strategies to achieve that were not good.

[macintologist]

Originally posted by budster101:
Y'all are on crack.

I'm sorry, I missed the part where 11 million people have been slaughtered in ovens, gas chamber (showers), shot,tortured, experimented on while alive, or just blown up in order for him to become president and rule the world.

Hitler was a sick fcuk! and to compare any politician to him is fcuking stupid.

Spreading democracy, yeah, right, that's just what Hitler would have wanted to do...


Now I know where the Democrats earned the DONKEY as their symbol. Jacka$$es.

1. I am not a Democrat. Where the hell did you get that idea?

2. I did not say Bush is Hitler. I said there are similarities in their political mechanisms. Deny it all you want, but that's the TRUTH.

3. You're seeing it from a very black and white perspective, ie. Bush cannot be similar to Hitler because he did not gas the Jews. This is a fallacy. See more shades of grey next time.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by macintologist:
Telling us to hate the enemy.

When has he done this? Bush has done many bad things, but this is one that I'm afraid can't be placed on his shoulders.

[budster101]

Originally posted by macintologist:
1. I am not a Democrat. Where the hell did you get that idea?

2. I did not say Bush is Hitler. I said there are similarities in their political mechanisms. Deny it all you want, but that's the TRUTH.

3. You're seeing it from a very black and white perspective, ie. Bush cannot be similar to Hitler because he did not gas the Jews. This is a fallacy. See more shades of grey next time.

1. I don't care. I'm saying this is the strategy that the Democrats employ. Did I call YOU a democrat? Read my post again.

2. I see in COLOR not shades of gray.

3. You are a jerk for posting such a thread. How about it if I posted a thread that stated, Bill Clinton employed the tactics of most (Fill-in-the-blank-for-yourself)...
I see you picked on Lincoln as well. Jerk.

[macintologist]

Originally posted by budster101:

I see you picked on Lincoln as well. Jerk.

Oh noes!

Lincoln was a traitor and a tyrant. He suspended the writ of habeas corpus and frequently imprisoned accused Southern spies and sympathizers without trial. He even tried to jail Chief Justice Roger Brooke Taney for political reasons. He grew and extended the powers of the federal gov't to unprecedented levels which to this day are still felt. Wanna blame somebody on the enormous size of the federal gov't? Point to Lincoln and his tyranny. Just know that the more you learn about him, the more you realize of what a powermongering elitist tyrant he was. What did they teach you in America history class?

[macintologist]

Originally posted by Millennium:
When has he done this? Bush has done many bad things, but this is one that I'm afraid can't be placed on his shoulders.

He has directed our fear and hatred to an external enemy. Terrorists, Saddam Hussein, etc.

[budster101]

Originally posted by macintologist:
He has directed our fear and hatred to an external enemy. Terrorists, Saddam Hussein, etc.

I don't believe I needed him to hate Saddam Hussein, or any other Tyrant in the world. Would you agree that Democracy is the key to growing peace?

[Millennium]

Originally posted by macintologist:
He has directed our fear and hatred to an external enemy. Terrorists, Saddam Hussein, etc.

How has he done this? by pointing out that these people wanted to kill us? Are you saying that these people do not, in fact, want to kill us? There's some awfully compelling evidence that they do; I can cite a few particularly interesting incidents.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by macintologist:
Lincoln was a traitor and a tyrant.

There are many arguments, some of them quite valid, for calling him a tyrant. There are even valid arguments for pointing out that he was a racist by modern standards (though not for his time). Calling him a traitor, however, is quite a stretch.

He suspended the writ of habeas corpus and frequently imprisoned accused Southern spies and sympathizers without trial.

All legal in times of rebellion, and I think you'd be hard-pressed to state that the Civil War was not a time of rebellion.

Wanna blame somebody on the enormous size of the federal gov't? Point to Lincoln and his tyranny.

Um... no. There are Presidents far more recent than Lincoln on whom the enormous size of the federal government can be blamed. FDR comes to mind.

What did they teach you in America history class?

Out of honest curiosity, what region of the US did you learn about the American Civil War? This is an honest question. My dad was in the military, so we moved around a lot when I was a kid; as a result I've been to classes in many different regions on this very subject. It would be interesting to see how you match up. My initial guess is that you learned almost exclusively in either South Carolina or Georgia.

[AuPhalanx]

Originally posted by macintologist:
It's the same kind of way Hitler worked. You wanna get people hating one another.

This is biological, humans NEED an enemy. The value of having an enemy by which to organize a social unit is absolutely fundamental to fascism.

Humans ranging from the most primitive to the most sophisticated form cozy in-groups that assault outsiders, clumping together as competitive superorganisms.

Killing real people is forbidden, but folks beyond the boundaries of our own superorganism aren't really people, and are fair game.

One man's God is another man's Devil.

Lenin was born into a supremely middle-class family, but he dressed in the unmistakable clothing of a worker, adopted worker's slang and encouraged his followers to do the same. Then he pointed to an enemy with a radically different style of couture and speech, the coiffed bourgeoisie.

Castro upon taking power said he was for democratic changes and freedom. Selling totalitarianism would be tough, wouldn't it? So he appointed figures of indisputable moderate credentials to his presidential cabinet, but also established a shadow gov't full of his supporters. President Urrutia was a pawn of Castro's to make his changes look more democratic. Then Castro began to smear his name as be consolidated more power within the gov't. He then pretended to resign, saying that the American devil (the enemy, right?) had conspired with Urrutia to force the people's revolutionary hero out of office.

Castro played upon the fear of America in his people to consolidate power and eliminate social freedoms. He said anybody who conspired with the Americans were traitors, and he used this pretext to send hundreds of innocent people to concentration camps.

There was one great tool for "keeping the revolutionary spirit alive", and that tool was an enemy.

In this same way, this biological inclination of ours to form groups of "Us vs them" is a cornerstone to human nature. We create enemies to organize ourselves. We use perceptual tricks to manufacture devils, such as hyping an external threat.

Bush does it. Terrorists hate freedom and want to see civilization destroyed.

Castro does it. America is a threat to the Revolution. (see Bay of Pigs invasion)

Hitler did it. The Jews and Communists are terrorists and a threat to the Aryan race and Drittes Reich. (see Mein Kampf)

Stalin did it. The capitalist pigs and the Bourgeoisie threaten social justice and the Revolution.

Lincoln did it. "A disruption of the Federal Union, heretofore only menaced, is now formidably attempted." (see First Inaugural Address)

Humans do it. Evil is a by-product of nature's strategies for creation and are woven into our most basic biological fabric.

I see someone is reading Harold K. Bloom's The Lucifer Principle. The only difference is that Mr. Bloom did not include a Bush/Hitler comparison. When you post something like this, at least have the respect to credit the author whom you are basically quoting. (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, though. You probably only read the back cover of the book and did not even know who the author was.)

Have fun... Tony.

[budster101]

I won't [Give him the benefit of the doubt]. He plagiarised another person's work and passed it off as his own dimented thoughts.

He should go here: http://www.plagiarism.org/

[budster101]

The book cited reviewed: "The Lucifer Principle" Howard K. Bloomy

f you are someone who never read anything other than Tom Clancy novels then you may find this book fascinating. It will justify all the prejudice you hold about the World.
However, if you do have some background knowledge in History and Evolutionary Biology, then you will certainly see this book for what it really is: a shallowly researched and not well thought out theory of an armchair intellectual.

Bloom fails to deliver any proof to support his theory. The overwhelming amount of anecdotes and experiments with animals that are given in the book might fool the casual reader that Bloom knows what he is writing about but none of those examples proves his theory. He claims that Selfish Genes and Kin Selection do not explain certain phenomena yet he fails to deliver on the promise to prove the alternative explanation: Group Selection. Group Selection is simply taken as something that exists and does not need to be proven.

Bloom is so unable to provide logical reasoning that he is forced to attribute events to the intervention of a divine intellect that has a plan for us. Religious people refer to this intellect as God. Hitler called it Providence. Bloom is using the term Evolution for the same purpose.

Evolution has a plan for us and violence is part of it. This is what Blooms' theory is all about. It is silly. It is stupid. Evolution has no plan for us. Evolution has no direction. Evolution is not a mystical force that leads us to a higher purpose. Evolution is just a term that scientist use to explain the effect of random mutations on spices. Evolution or Nature if you will does not have a plan for us. It does not have a plan at all.

Bloom may have read Dawkins' Selfish Gene but apparently he didn't understand it. I doubt he ever read E. O. Wilson's Sociobiology: it's a hardcore science book, not a popular reading that an armchair intellectual would like. Kin Selection explains the behavior of individuals and groups a lot better than Bloom's mystical Lucifer Principle, whatever that is.

Last but not least, Bloom is taking events out of context and is twisting them in a way that will fit his theory. Whenever he doesn't falsify events, he simplifies them to a point where one can reach a misleading conclusion about what happened. Numerous historic events that contradict the main theme of the book are conveniently forgotten. It's a typical example when one deliberately seeks a trend and finds it.

[budster101]

The First Page: FunnyThe First Page of the Book. (amazon.com)

If it doesn't work, go here and roll over the book picture.Here.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally posted by macintologist:
Mindless drivel snipped. [/B]

YOU ARE SO DUMB!

[macintologist]

When you post something like this, at least have the respect to credit the author whom you are basically quoting.

Nice one..trying to discredit me by accusing me of plagiarism. I read the book. I am paraphrasing what I know from various sources, including his book. Should we start citing where we get our info from now on?

If I say, the US has a bigger population than Vatican City, must I cite where I got that info?

I admit I copied verbatim the last sentence, because it's phrased so well. Couldn't have been said better. Guess I should have put a little footnote in there.

[macintologist]

Hey AuPhalanx, you're a hypocrite if you don't take notice of budster101's blatant non-cited copy/paste job from Amazon.

[budster101]

Originally posted by macintologist:
Hey AuPhalanx, you're a hypocrite if you don't take notice of budster101's blatant non-cited copy/paste job from Amazon.

I knew you would BITE.

Uhm, I am pretty sure everyone knows, or can assume, I did NOT read the crap book you quoted without credit.

You can get it at Amazon.com for $5.00 and change used.

I put a link to Amazon on the next post, genius... the reviews are just below on that page. You caught me! (sarcasm)

[macintologist]

[AuPhalanx]

Originally posted by macintologist:
Nice one..trying to discredit me by accusing me of plagiarism. I read the book. I am paraphrasing what I know from various sources, including his book. Should we start citing where we get our info from now on?

If I say, the US has a bigger population than Vatican City, must I cite where I got that info?

I admit I copied verbatim the last sentence, because it's phrased so well. Couldn't have been said better. Guess I should have put a little footnote in there.

macintologist!

I did not have to try to discredit you. Your argument does that by itself. Here's why: Every time a Republican is in Office, every crackpot Liberal has to run around yelling "Hitler!" and "Nazi" whilst holding up signs with pictures of the Holocaust. It's very silly. Silly to the extreme.

If you care to entertain theories such as that, please feel free. But when you opt to remove the tin foil cap and graduate from high school, you'll gain a whole new perspective--a real one. Plus, you'll get a good chuckle just like we are.

Have fun... Tony.

[AuPhalanx]

Originally posted by macintologist:
Hey AuPhalanx, you're a hypocrite if you don't take notice of budster101's blatant non-cited copy/paste job from Amazon.

macintologist!

What? It is obvious it is a cut & paste from a review. In any event, I likede the book. Good food for thought. I agree that it is a pop science book and shouldn't be taken as gospel, but it was an entertaining read nonetheless.

Have fun... Tony.

[Dale Sorel]

Originally posted by macintologist:
Oh my what a brilliant response! You've driven me to my argumentative knees!

When you make ignorant posts like yours, what do you expect

[Saad]

It's almost funny that a Conneticut born, Andover Yale and Harvard educated, Skull and Bones initiated, oil businessman, baseball team owner, governor (of the third most populous state in the union), white, male, born again christian is able to stake the claim as an 'outsider', and is able attack the 'establishment'.

[gadster]

Well thaey certainly had this in common: anyone recall what "Gott mit Uns" means?

[thunderous_funker]

I don't buy it.

There's no way Bush could manage german grammar.

[malvolio]

Originally posted by budster101:
Spreading democracy, yeah, right, that's just what Hitler would have wanted to do...

That's just Bush's latest excuse for his Iraq invasion.
For him to proclaim it as the basis of his foreign policy is rankest hypocrisy, considering the actions his administration took against democratically elected governments in Haiti and Venezuela.

[demograph68]

"...the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country."

- Hitlers Reich-Marshall

[Zimphire]

[demograph68]

[Zimphire]

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Zimphire:

[demograph68]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
http://webpages.charter.net/zimphire...s/BIGbawlz.gif

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by gadster:
Well thaey certainly had this in common: anyone recall what "Gott mit Uns" means?

Do you realize that the origin of that was pre-Nazi? It was worn in the Prussian Army before Bismarck unified Germany. It was worn right through WW-I, and through WW-II. It wasn't a Nazi symbol.

Interesting googling it. It seems that much of the left is abuzz with this misunderstanding. It's not only wrong, it isn't even original.

[budster101]

Senator Robert Byrd compared the GOP to Hitler...

Didn't he:

- Belong to the KKK?
- Vote against civil rights?

[mitchell_pgh]

My All Time Favorite Robert Byrd Quote (2001)

"There are white niggers. I've seen a lot of white niggers in my time."

He obviously knows something about hate considering he was a recruiter for the KKK.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by macintologist:
This is biological, humans NEED an enemy. The value of having an enemy by which to organize a social unit is absolutely fundamental to fascism.

Partly true but I don't see it happening as strongly in the other parts of the world as it does in the US.

[gadster]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
... blah blah blah ... It wasn't a Nazi symbol.... blah blah blah ...

It was too.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Partly true but I don't see it happening as strongly in the other parts of the world as it does in the US.

Yes, yes it does.

Take for example your obsessive hatred with the US and Christians.