[acadian]

- Apple does not owe you anything.
- Apple does not have a responsibility to inform you of upcoming products prior to your purchase.
- Apple did not "lie" to you by releasing an updated version of your product two weeks after you purchased.
- Rumour sites did not "lie" to you by not including your product in their predictions.
- Your an idiot if your decision to purchase was based on what you read on a rumour site.
- Having based your decision to purchase by reading postings at a rumour site your an even bigger idiot for buying two weeks before Macworld.
- Your computer still does for you what it did when you first bought it. The release of a new product does not suddenly nullify the benefits of your original purchase.
- You are a consumer, you make the decision to buy all by yourself, nobody held a gun to your head. Take responsibility for yourself.

[Kevin]

I never understood this thinking. When new model cars come out, do people do this too?

Heck, I bought my G4 tower when the G5s first came out.

Got one heck of a deal on it too.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by acadian

- You are a consumer, you make the decision to buy all by yourself, nobody held a gun to your head. Take responsibility for yourself.

Hey, speak for yourself! Demonhood was standing next to me, pointing a .45 Magnum to my left temple when I clicked the “Buy” button. It’s all his fault!


(P.S.: Your ≠ you’re)

[ShotgunEd]

it is a little silly to buy before a huge announcement.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by acadian

Your an idiot

That one always makes me laugh.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by ShotgunEd

it is a little silly to buy before a huge announcement.

Not everyone follows Apple's release cycle, so many people don't know. Many other businesses will tell you that new models are about to come out. Car dealers will often tell you that new ones are coming. When I was looking at digital cameras, the guy in the camera shop told me a better and cheaper one was coming in a month. It's just a nice thing to do. Sure, Apple is under no obligation to do so, but it is kind of dickish to deliberately not tell someone that waiting 2 days will get them a much better product for the same money.

[Cody Dawg]

Yes, car dealers DO tell people to wait and come back in for the newer model on the way in.

They have nothing to hide.

Apple does and they hide it well and they hide it on purpose.

But, most of the time you can just return the item (of course unless it's a custom order, perhaps) and buy the newer model.

What's the big deal anyway?

[ShotgunEd]

I'm pretty sure if you were to try and buy a mac in an apple store 2 days before something like MWSF, the employee will tell you, maybe wait a week. I'm sure I've read reports of that on here before.

[demibob]

maybe if you were going to by a ibook or mac mini but i dont think anyone was expecting an imac.

[cmeisenzahl]

Originally Posted by acadian

- Apple does not owe you anything.
- Apple does not have a responsibility to inform you of upcoming products prior to your purchase.
- Apple did not "lie" to you by releasing an updated version of your product two weeks after you purchased.
...

Well said!

[cmeisenzahl]

Originally Posted by acadian

- Apple does not owe you anything.
- Apple does not have a responsibility to inform you of upcoming products prior to your purchase.
- Apple did not "lie" to you by releasing an updated version of your product two weeks after you purchased.
...

Well said!

[paul w]

It does kinda sting that they were pushing the G5 iMacs so hard right up until the announcement. Kind of odd since they stopped selling the G4 iMacs before the G5 announcement. The point is lots of consumers read that this is to mean Apple is behind this product for the long haul. And so in the last month we went out and bought one. Obviously the G5 is still a quality, proven machine, and the new intel one's are untested. But it feels like Apple used the holiday season to sell off its soon to be outdated "new and wondrous machines'" stock.


The point of this is, yeah they don't owe any of us anything, they're out to make money and be profitable. It doesn't make, we the consumer feel any less manipulated.

[cpt kangarooski]

acadian--
True, but it is foolish of Apple to strain the goodwill they have with their customers, and there is nothing wrong with criticizing them about it. Apple -- Steve primarily -- seems to enjoy silly theatrics, and having been burned by this sort of thing before (I bought a IIvx back in the day) it discourages me from wanting to buy their products. If they were more mature and stopped with the surprise announcements, there would be more trust, and they might do more business.

[Corpse of Chewbacca]

wtf u talking about man? i've stuck with apple through it all. THEY OWE IT TO ME!!!!!

[Ratm]

Chewbacca what's a little special favor from Steve himself if you know what I mean.

[wdlove]

It's difficult when so many new items are coming.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by wdlove

It's difficult when so many new items are coming.

What the heck are you talking about ?

-t

[paul w]

I understand the concept of buyer beware. Most people here are aware to some degree of Apple's product announcement cycle, and anyone who buys before a keynote should not complain afterwards.

BUT, calling people who criticize Apple's timing and behavior with these two products crybabies, that's rather offensive. This is not Sony or some company that seems more interested in pumping out cool gadgets. Apple is a smaller company that has had a veeeeery loyal following over the years.

One wonders who Apple wants to sell computers to these days - just how mainstream they intend to become as a company. Incessant and unexpected updates can certainly work against them. Part of the reason a Mac is attractive is it's life-span tends to be a year or two longer than its Windows running counterparts.

Apple knew this rather exceptional transition was coming for a long time, and yet they saw fit to announce new machines right after a holiday season of rather vigorously selling soon to be 2 - 4X slower "newest and latest machines"? Lots of us bit, as common sense dictated that Apple wouldn't go for theatrics and stick to a more sensible calendar - Minis and iBooks to start and more in a few months.

Sure I'm happy as I ordered their macbook, but more than a couple people I knew have felt burned by Apple. These are loyal longtime customers. Call them "crybabies" if you want, but I find it worrisome.

[Fred_Cokebottle]

Still want a cube.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by wallinbl

Not everyone follows Apple's release cycle, so many people don't know. Many other businesses will tell you that new models are about to come out. Car dealers will often tell you that new ones are coming. When I was looking at digital cameras, the guy in the camera shop told me a better and cheaper one was coming in a month. It's just a nice thing to do. Sure, Apple is under no obligation to do so, but it is kind of dickish to deliberately not tell someone that waiting 2 days will get them a much better product for the same money.

If you bought that close to the announcement, return it and get a new one.

[paul w]

I hear the Apple Stores have been barricaded from the inside, to wait out the enraged masses.

[Kr0nos]

"If you really need a computer now, buy one now..."

Yeah rrrrrrrrrrrright.

I knew something like this was coming so I've been holding off, and I will continue to do so 'til the rev. b MacBook Pro comes out.

I've also told everybody who's been in the market for a new computer to just gut it out and wait.

This is going to be a lot bigger than most people think, and far less smooth than some might want you to believe.

[::maroma::]

I don't understand any of this. When I need a new computer I know it. And when I know it I go out and buy the one that works for me the best. If there is nothing out there that works for me then I wait a little bit. Because I know (and anyone here should really know this) that Apple releases updates to hardware fairly regularly. If you wait a few months you'll get something better.

When you bought your computer were you thinking "Damn if this computer was just a bit faster and had this feature and that feature, then I'd be happy."? If you were then why the hell did you buy it? Why didn't you wait for a few more months (maximum) and get something that you really needed/wanted? Now all of the sudden you are pissed because something came out that you knew nothing about yet you somehow knew you just had to have it? And its somehow Apple's fault for not telling you about it?

Besides if Apple announced what they were releasing in advance of the release then they might as well just take the current models off the shelf for a good month or so. Yeah, that sounds like a REAL moneymaker.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

I don't understand any of this. When I need a new computer I know it. And when I know it I go out and buy the one that works for me the best. If there is nothing out there that works for me then I wait a little bit. Because I know (and anyone here should really know this) that Apple releases updates to hardware fairly regularly. If you wait a few months you'll get something better.

When you bought your computer were you thinking "Damn if this computer was just a bit faster and had this feature and that feature, then I'd be happy."? If you were then why the hell did you buy it? Why didn't you wait for a few more months (maximum) and get something that you really needed/wanted? Now all of the sudden you are pissed because something came out that you knew nothing about yet you somehow knew you just had to have it? And its somehow Apple's fault for not telling you about it?

Your mistake is in assuming there is such an action as wanting/needing. It may be that I need a computer, and really want it to have certain features, but Apple doesn't offer those options. So I buy one without those options. I would be much happier if it had them, however. But I do need a computer, and cannot wait forever to get them. So, that's why the hell you might buy it.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by acadian

- Your're an idiot if your decision to purchase was based on what you read on a rumour site.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Your mistake is in assuming there is such an action as wanting/needing. It may be that I need a computer, and really want it to have certain features, but Apple doesn't offer those options. So I buy one without those options. I would be much happier if it had them, however.

Then why didn't you wait a couple more months? Did you absolutely have to have a new computer at the time you bought it? Or was it that you merely wanted one? Either way it was your choice and your choice alone to purchase it. You made the decision either to get what you needed at the time or make the sacrifice and buy something that you knew wasn't going to satisfy you're needs or wants. Of course anyone would be happier with a better computer, but there is absolutely no way around that issue. Apple isn't going to suddenly stop upgrading their computers so that whoever bought the latest version will be happy forever. And there are exceptions out there for sure, but the vast majority of people who buy new computers buy them because its what they need. And if their needs suddenly change just when Apple comes out with a newer better computer then that's not Apple's fault.

Living in the world we live in, you will only have the latest and greatest for maybe 6 months if you're lucky. Most of the time its less than that. And sometimes its maybe 1 month. Thats just the way it is. You have to accept that. If you don't you'll be unhappy with whatever you buy, no matter when you buy it. Of course, if you bought it within 30 days then you can return it. I think thats pretty generous on Apple's part. They don't have to do it but they do.

[shunt]

So, what's the lesson?

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by shunt

So, what's the lesson?

Buyer Beware.

Class dismissed.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

Buyer Beware.
Class dismissed.

Basically.

-t

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

Then why didn't you wait a couple more months? Did you absolutely have to have a new computer at the time you bought it? Or was it that you merely wanted one?

You really don't understand the word "need," do you?

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

Either way it was your choice and your choice alone to purchase it.

OK. Why do I care? Because I chose to buy a computer when I needed to, I can't wish for features that were unexpectedly introduced soon after?

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

You really don't understand the word "need," do you?

Apparently I don't understand your definition of the word need. Please enlighten me.

OK. Why do I care? Because I chose to buy a computer when I needed to, I can't wish for features that were unexpectedly introduced soon after?

Did I say you couldn't wish for features? No. Everyone wishes that the money they spend would buy them more. I said you CHOSE to buy a computer when you bought one. Do you understand the word "chose"? It means the decision was made by you, no one else. How is Apple to blame for that?

It sounds to me like you expect Apple to make your purchasing decisions for you so that you don't feel like you've somehow been cheated. Thats not how it works. If you want that sort of thing go buy Microsoft crap.

[shunt]

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

Buyer Beware.

Class dismissed.

So should I buy one now, or wait?

Help me decide!!!!!

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

Apparently I don't understand your definition of the word need. Please enlighten me.

He was quite clear, really, in juxtaposing “need” and “want”. He needed the computer—and needed it now—but wanted the extra software.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by shunt

So should I buy one now, or wait?

Help me decide!!!!!

Gee, how nice. Yeah, I know, they're a business and it's about money and they don't have to be nice and blah and blah and blah. I'm getting bored with every company seeing the bottom line as more important that people. Somewhere, the world has a few things crosswired.

[ghporter]

The "big secret" thing is supposed to build buzz. It's supposed to get people to wait for the big announcement before they buy. That's how it's supposed to work.

But people get anxious, get tired of waiting, and generally get feeling rushed and they don't wait.

I actually agree with acadian here, though not in quite such vitriolic terms. I reserve those for people who don't crack a manual and want their hand held while they do simple stuff... But enough about me! I think the point is that Apple is not a religion, and the customer does not have a "personal relationship" with Apple overall or Steve Jobs specifically. It's a business intended to make a profit, so they play marketing games to get people to buy their products. That is all.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Oisín

He was quite clear, really, in juxtaposing “need” and “want”. He needed the computer—and needed it now—but wanted the extra software.

Yes, I understand that. But what I don't understand is why he is blaming Apple for his decision to purchase a new computer. He decided that he needed something now. So he bought one. No harm done. Then a new version comes out a little while later and all of the sudden he feels he wasted his money? He didn't feel that way 5 minutes before the Keynote address, did he? Did he feel ripped off when he bought the thing? (no Apple pricing jokes here please). What has changed since 5 minutes before the Keynote address other than the fact that there's something a little better out there available? He still has the computer he was happy with when he bought it. And if he wasn't happy with it, thats his own damn fault.

And by the way, I always want extra software, better hardware, more features. I always want these things. Always. But that doesn't mean I am not responsible for my purchasing decisions.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

Yes, I understand that. But what I don't understand is why he is blaming Apple for his decision to purchase a new computer.

Quote it or it didn't happen.

Apple does not make the decision for me, but they do make me unable to make an informed decision. That's the frustrating part.

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

He decided that he needed something now. So he bought one. No harm done. Then a new version comes out a little while later and all of the sudden he feels he wasted his money? He didn't feel that way 5 minutes before the Keynote address, did he? Did he feel ripped off when he bought the thing?

So because I didn't realize I was getting ripped off, it was actually a good deal? If realizing what a bad deal you were getting were prerequisite to being ripped off, nobody ever would be!

Anyway, it is indeed Apple's right to rip me off. But it's my right to be pissed.

(Sorry, lots of editing because I couldn't decide how much I wanted to respond to.)

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Quote it or it didn't happen.

Sorry, the argument became more literal as it progressed. You had replied to one of my posts as if you might have actually been in this situation. I'm not even sure if you actually are, but for the sake of the argument I was assuming you are.

Apple does not make the decision for me, but they do make me unable to make an informed decision. That's the frustrating part.

How informed would you like to be? Is it not enough to know that Apple has a release cycle that they generally stick to? Sometimes its a little earlier, sometimes later. What more do you want? You had as much information as everyone else, and yet not everyone else is feeling ripped off. A lot of people, including myself, decided to wait on a purchase because we knew something would be out soon. No one knew when exactly, but we all knew it would be soon. If I really needed a computer before this release I would have bought one, just like you (or the theoretical "you"). And I would have bought it knowing full well that this model had been out for quite a few months and something new and better was on the way soon. Hence "buyer beware".

So because I didn't realize I was getting ripped off, it was actually a good deal? If realizing what a bad deal you were getting were prerequisite to being ripped off, nobody ever would be!

I don't believe you got ripped off at all. But this is how you feel, right? You feel short changed. You feel as if Apple pulled a fast one on you, correct? But when you bought your computer were you thinking that? Did you think Apple was swindling you somehow? Or did you feel that you got a good deal when you made your purchase? Nothing has changed with your computer. Apple didn't sell you something that they said was one way and it turned out to be another. They sold you what they said they were selling you. Just because something better came out doesn't make what Apple sold you suddenly a lie.

For the record, within 10 days of a product change, Apple will either refund the difference in price or if their order hasn't shipped, automatically upgrade people to the next version.

And the car dealer analogy doesn't hold water - cars are high margin products with kickbacks to dealers, deep discounting, etc. - it's a vastly different business.

Apple can't win here. If you think they should tell you something new is coming, then they effectively are making a pre-announcement because it'll get posted all over the net. Then you get people whining that the new version isn't shipping right away and they need it "now". So Apple has to keep it a secret. Then you get people whining that bought the previous model two weeks before.

So, if you think Apple should warn people, i.e. pre-announce products, how far ahead should they do it? 30 days? If 30, what about the people who bought 31 days ago? Fine, make it 31 days. Then what about the people who bought 32 days ago?

Apple can't win here. They're doing the right thing. Customers should buy what they need when they need it. If knowing a new model was coming would cause them to wait, then they don't really need a new computer then, do they?

And if you bought an iMac G5 two weeks ago, you didn't get ripped off. If you didn't think it was worth the money, then you shouldn't have bought it.

[TailsToo]

Originally Posted by ShotgunEd

I'm pretty sure if you were to try and buy a mac in an apple store 2 days before something like MWSF, the employee will tell you, maybe wait a week. I'm sure I've read reports of that on here before.

they know as much as the rest of us do about the new products - even internally at apple new product launches are kept secret.

[TailsToo]

All of the current software runs slower on the intel mac... keep your G5 and save enough money for all of the version upgrades you'll need when you do get an intel machine.

[TheoCryst]

This is why it's tough buying a computer nowadays. The industry is changing so quickly that any computer you buy today will be outdated tomorrow. Unfortunately, there simply isn't much that can be done about it. You can either buy a product right when it comes out (MacBook Pro now) or wait until later in the life cycle and get a much better deal (iBook now). Just don't do the second and be upset when a new version is announced the next week. It happens.

EDIT: w00t, 100 posts!

[Big Mac]

As long as there is growth in the personal computer sector, there will be obsolescence, and, at times, unusually short product cycles. That is a given. But objectively, those who are upset by the this new Intel "iMac" should realize it's not exactly in the same product space as the iMac G5. After all, the iMacs and the PowerBooks are still being sold, rather than being discontinued in Apple's usual style. Thus, this isn't obsolescence in the conventional sense of the computer term. There's a glimmer of hope that true Mac lines will be maintained for at least the short term and possibly even updated.

[volcano]

It happens to everyone.

I ordered my first Mac - my 2GHz 20" Rev. B iMac G5 - on June 3, 2005.
Apple announced the transition to Intel processors on June 6, 2005.

I must admit, I was quite upset about it. Initially.
But after some research (and reassurance), I came to the conclusion that my iMac would be a competent machine for at least 2 years or more - and that's all I wanted to know. After all, it was the first computer I had bought in nearly 4 years, so I wanted a rock-solid investment.

Granted, my situation is definitely different. At the time, Intel processors were supposedly a year away - and so I put the idea of that whole change in the back of my mind. Now I could go to my Apple store and stare at an almost identical iMac like mine, and it would already have the Intel processor inside! So much for June 2006, eh? Regardless, every consumer out there feels cheated by their computer company at some point in time - and in actuality, that line transcends all borders - far beyond computer companies.

Trust me, the stinging feeling will wear off.

I don't know how I'll react in the future, though. This is only the second Apple announcement I've been through as a Mac user, and I still feel good about my machine. Yes, I'll admit, I'm the typical "must have the latest and greatest [insert object here]" guy, but so far I've been just fine. When they unveiled the new iSight iMacs this past October, I didn't give it a second thought. Why? Although the iSight camera and Front Row software would have been nice, it wasn't something I needed (or even desired) at the time of my computer purchase. I still don't need/want it. Plus, the dismal speed increases weren't even worth mentioning. Even with Intel and it's amazing speed possibilities, it still doesn't worry me - because I know that all the applications that run natively on my G5 would run at or below the same speed on an Intel machine under Rosetta. I won't even consider an Intel iMac or iBook until the Adobe suite is universal and the Rev. B models come out.

For now, I enjoy my aesthetically pleasing iMac on my desk. I still think the iSight camera on top is quite distracting and just plain ugly - so I will continue to relish in that thought.