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rozwado1 · Feb 11, 2009, 01:08 AM

The business is a construction/development firm. I'd like to have a page for each project to track details: permit numbers, color and material selections, city inspections, etc. It needs to be available online and editable from a few different people. Password-restricted access is a must.

I'm currently looking towards Mediawiki bc it's free, cheap and easy.

besson3c · Feb 11, 2009, 01:56 AM

Sounds like you are looking for a web-based database and not a CMS?

Big Mac · Feb 11, 2009, 03:40 AM

Yeah, that's an online database task. I don't think you can get much easier than FileMaker.

rozwado1 · Feb 11, 2009, 11:50 AM

I should also note that we need to store/access PDFs and cad drawings for each project

besson3c · Feb 11, 2009, 11:52 AM

Get a developer to write you a MySQL based database with a web interface.

mattyb · Feb 11, 2009, 12:29 PM

Or better yet, use Oracle.

MySQL sucks so much (now) that Axmark and Widenius have both quit Sun. The rant about version 5.1 was quite funny.

Maflynn · Feb 11, 2009, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by mattyb

Or better yet, use Oracle.

Oracle = expensive, the OP is looking for a cheap/easy solution. Getting Oracle is neither of these requirements.

besson3c · Feb 11, 2009, 12:38 PM

Do you have a link for that?

I don't see the point of Oracle for small databases... What's the point of paying for something you can get for free and would work just dandy? If you don't like or want to use MySQL, use PostgreSQL...

OreoCookie · Feb 11, 2009, 12:51 PM

Sounds like a job for FileMaker, everything else is a lot more expensive and more difficult.
Unless they happen to have a database specialist around …

kikkoman · Feb 11, 2009, 01:30 PM

Sounds like they could use a project management webapp like 37signal's Basecamp.

mattyb · Feb 11, 2009, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by Maflynn

Oracle = expensive, the OP is looking for a cheap/easy solution. Getting Oracle is neither of these requirements.

Apex is cheap, plus the dev interface is part of the download. Oracle Standard Edition is easy, installation is easy, admin is via a web based interface. OK, its not the cheapest solution. Oracle Sales guys rarely make you pay the listed price anyway.

FM question : seems like making the apps web based (no FM client installed as it were) is hard work, from what little I've read, any differing opinions?

OreoCookie · Feb 11, 2009, 02:03 PM

I'm not sure what it's like to set up a web interface for FileMaker now, but in 2001, it was a breeze (FileMaker running on top of OS 9). It took me a day to learn the basics (including setup of the web interface), although I've had zero experience with databases back then. It even had some rudimentary password protection back then. I can't imagine why it should be much harder now.

Maflynn · Feb 11, 2009, 02:15 PM

I work with Oracle, and its not easiest nor the cheapest solution. Plus it doesn't sound like the OP wants to develop a solution or even hire a programmer to develop it but rather use an existing free or cheap application. Either way, Oracle seems like over-kill for this request.

freudling · Feb 11, 2009, 02:48 PM

Just use filemaker, or http://www.activecollab.com/

rozwado1 · Feb 11, 2009, 03:01 PM

thanks for all the replies. We'll try out filemaker since it needs to be fairly easy for them to operate.

waxcrash · Feb 11, 2009, 03:09 PM

As other have mentioned, you could build it in Filemaker.

A small company I worked for a few years ago used ACT!.

More expensive options are SalesLogix, GoldMine, and salesforce.com.

besson3c · Feb 11, 2009, 03:24 PM

If you pay for some web-based project management solution where the data is stored remotely, if you have any sensitive data be very careful about your decision here in terms of your own legal protection.

rozwado1 · Feb 11, 2009, 05:00 PM

Just realized that Filemaker can only be web hosted by a "filemaker-supporting" host, ie expensive. We're not buying a server for it.

I don't like the idea of a webservice. I don't want my whole business in the hands of a service that can raise rates once you're locked into it.

Mediawiki is back in the lead since it uses simple MySQL and I can get many cheap GBs of hosting space for project file storage. I like that MySQL is pretty standardized so there's a high probability I can translate that database into future software.

mattyb · Feb 11, 2009, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Do you have a link for that?

I don't see the point of Oracle for small databases... What's the point of paying for something you can get for free and would work just dandy? If you don't like or want to use MySQL, use PostgreSQL...

http://tinyurl.com/ctrj9k

I dunno, I always like the idea of using a product that can grow with the company. You could have a schema in the database for each app, you could use Oracle not just for the apps that the OP was going to develop but to replace existing apps.

Yeah OK I'm an Oracle fanboy, I've been a DBA for a while and find it much easier to manage Oracle instances than SQL Server, MySQL or DB2 UDB. And yes its pricey, but the complexity isn't as high as some would imagine.

I've never touched it, but I understand that PostgreSQL is pretty good and tries to copy Oracle in terms of features. MySQL 5 is probably better than previous versions, but the transactional motor that they used, InnoDB was bought by Oracle and their Falcon transaction engine hasn't got a lot of mileage yet. If your apps are transactional, then do consider a database management system that can handle transactions properly.

I'll shutup now. Promise.

tooki · Feb 11, 2009, 08:30 PM

Fly. Howitzer.

besson3c · Feb 11, 2009, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by mattyb

http://tinyurl.com/ctrj9k

I dunno, I always like the idea of using a product that can grow with the company. You could have a schema in the database for each app, you could use Oracle not just for the apps that the OP was going to develop but to replace existing apps.

Yeah OK I'm an Oracle fanboy, I've been a DBA for a while and find it much easier to manage Oracle instances than SQL Server, MySQL or DB2 UDB. And yes its pricey, but the complexity isn't as high as some would imagine.

I've never touched it, but I understand that PostgreSQL is pretty good and tries to copy Oracle in terms of features. MySQL 5 is probably better than previous versions, but the transactional motor that they used, InnoDB was bought by Oracle and their Falcon transaction engine hasn't got a lot of mileage yet. If your apps are transactional, then do consider a database management system that can handle transactions properly.

I'll shutup now. Promise.

Don't shutup, I'm learning!

I've found that most open source web apps that run on non-Windows languages support MySQL. This might be another reason to consider MySQL over Oracle, for now. Thankfully, if I had to migrate to a different SQL based RDB, I'm sure this wouldn't be terribly difficult. So, things could be a lot worse in terms of picking a RDB engine that ends up having to be abandoned.

OreoCookie · Feb 12, 2009, 03:48 AM

Originally Posted by rozwado1

Just realized that Filemaker can only be web hosted by a "filemaker-supporting" host, ie expensive. We're not buying a server for it.

Huh?
I can't see that on the website. All you need is dyndns (which is free) and a computer that hosts the database. Although you shouldn't work on servers, you could use any Windows machine or Mac to do that. According to the website, the usual FileMaker Pro has web sharing (up to five concurrent users). I really wouldn't underestimate the time and money you pour into a self-made solution.

CharlesS · Feb 12, 2009, 04:57 AM

Hey, related question - does anyone know of any good free CMSes that have the ability to allow people to upload Word docs or other common office types and have them be automatically converted to something the CMS can display?

mattyb · Feb 12, 2009, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by tooki

Fly. Howitzer.

Sorry tooki, what does this mean?

residentEvil · Feb 12, 2009, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by mattyb

Sorry tooki, what does this mean?

it means using Oracle is overkill.

mattyb · Feb 12, 2009, 11:36 AM

How about the Express Edition?

Oracle Database 10g Express Edition

Free to develop, deploy, and distribute

Oracle Database 10g Express Edition (Oracle Database XE) is an entry-level, small-footprint database based on the Oracle Database 10g Release 2 code base that's free to develop, deploy, and distribute; fast to download; and simple to administer. Oracle Database XE is a great starter database for:

* Developers working on PHP, Java, .NET, XML, and Open Source applications
* DBAs who need a free, starter database for training and deployment
* Independent Software Vendors (ISVs) and hardware vendors who want a starter database to distribute free of charge
* Educational institutions and students who need a free database for their curriculum

With Oracle Database XE, you can now develop and deploy applications with a powerful, proven, industry-leading infrastructure, and then upgrade when necessary without costly and complex migrations. Read what users say about Oracle Database XE.

Oracle Database XE can be installed on any size host machine with any number of CPUs (one database per machine), but XE will store up to 4GB of user data, use up to 1GB of memory, and use one CPU on the host machine.

besson3c · Feb 12, 2009, 11:56 AM

mattyb: what would Oracle buy somebody who needs the most basic features of a database?

mattyb · Feb 12, 2009, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

mattyb: what would Oracle buy somebody who needs the most basic features of a database?

I'm sorry, I don't understand your question. Basic features defined by me, wouldn't be the same basic features as defined by the OP, his boss, you or anyone on this thread.

besson3c · Feb 12, 2009, 01:43 PM

I mean, if more applications support MySQL, MySQL does the job, and it remains free, what incentive is there to use anything else? When would you recommend the free version of Oracle? I also couldn't find any information that states how the free version is crippled?

mattyb · Feb 12, 2009, 03:14 PM

MySQL is free, but support is not. It does the job but is perhaps not as robust as something like Oracle or SQL Server - especially backups and restoring/recovering said backups. Have you ever tried to migrate an app from one database to another? I have been a part of several projects that have done this. It is a nightmare. You cannot cannot cannot design an app to run on any database. Well sorry you can, but it would be a really shite app. A very simple example is the treatment of NULL.

If you want the possibility in the future to (for example) search within those pdfs the OP mentioned for certain key words, you may choose Oracle knowing that the Enterprise Edition has what is known as Oracle Text. If you wanted to store those CAD drawings in the database then maybe you want good blob storage/retrieval/management capabilities in the future. I'm obviously thinking long-term which it seems is the way that we should be thinking instead of the cheapest fastest tomorrow mode that got the world into the present mess.

I would recommend the free version of Oracle if the OP thinks that his company may grow, if they think that they could use a robust, well supported, reliable database that was made by a database company instead of one which has just had its two 'founding fathers' quit the mothership.

XE will store up to 4GB of user data, use up to 1GB of memory, and use one CPU on the host machine. Enterprise Edition allows quite a bit more.

Chuckit · Feb 12, 2009, 03:33 PM

Last I checked, free Oracle was crippleware with nonsense resource limits (like it can't use more than 1 GB of RAM despite being a memory fiend). Am I mistaken?

mattyb · Feb 13, 2009, 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Last I checked, free Oracle was crippleware with nonsense resource limits (like it can't use more than 1 GB of RAM despite being a memory fiend). Am I mistaken?

You are correct. I put that in the post above about XE.

Talked to someone with loads more knowledge than I about CMS/Open Source/Cheap stuff and he recommended Joomla. I don't know anything about it BTW.

besson3c · Feb 13, 2009, 09:29 AM

mattyb: how would a CMS help the original poster?

mattyb · Feb 13, 2009, 09:33 AM

besson3c, the thread is titled : Need a cheap/easy CMS for a small business. Recommendations?

rozwado1 · 12:11 PM

[edit] thanks for the activecollab tip freudling.