Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > iPhone, iPad & iPod > In Germany, the iPhone is a deal made in Hell

In Germany, the iPhone is a deal made in Hell
Thread Tools
analogika
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 888500128
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 3, 2007, 07:01 PM
 
OH. F U C K.

D.Telekom's mobile unit clinches iPhone deal: paper

I quote from another thread, where I posted this link already, but I felt it was worth its own thread, as it was kinda off-topic there:
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
The problem with T-Mobile in Germany is that they are the former state-monopoly telcom.

I switched away from their landline division (T-Com) five years ago, and their Department of Bureaucratic Nightmare, which every single incident of customer interaction must run through (including phone support hotlines), insisted on sending me monthly bills for another six months.

Also once hung up after a record TWENTY-THREE minutes on their PAY-per-minute phone hotline, trying to get them to replace a defective WLAN router at a client's office. Astounding.

All telcoms are of the devil in a fundamental way - it's apparently industry-inherent - but T-Com and its derivatives, at least in Germany, have reserved for them a very special place in hell.
A friend of mine really, really wants an iPhone, but she finally managed to switch away from T-Mobile after MONTHS of battling their DoBN'are...

Great coverage, but truly horrifying service. Seriously.

God DAMN.
     
BRussell
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Rockies
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 3, 2007, 07:32 PM
 
Is this the same t-mobile as in the US? I ask because I wonder if it would be possible to buy it in D-land, and then use it on t-mobile in the US. OK probably not.
     
analogika  (op)
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 888500128
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 3, 2007, 08:51 PM
 
Same basic company, except that in the United States, they actually have customers who praise them!

This is completely unimaginable with T-Mobile in Germany.

Imagine if your drivers' licensing bureau suddenly turned into a private corporation, and then turned their entire phone system into a pay-per-minute automated hotline system. Now imagine that only one fourth of those people are qualified to hold the job they have, but the rest cannot be fired because they are legacy bureaucratic officials.

Now imagine THAT company becoming the exclusive distributor for the iPhone.

That is is the situation here, right now.

I am SO puking.
     
CharlesS
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Dec 2000
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 3, 2007, 11:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
Same basic company, except that in the United States, they actually have customers who praise them!
Yeah, in the US T-Mobile has much more of the reputation of the little company that cares about its customers more than the big behemoths. Their customer service is very highly spoken of, and they also give the best prices, and are the most lenient about a lot of things. Unfortunately, as they are the smallest major carrier here, they also have the least coverage.

AT&T is the big evil corporation with idiots working the customer support on this side of the pond, so since Apple chose them here, it's not surprising that they went with their closest equivalent in Germany. Oh, the joys of being locked into a particular provider.

AT&T actually used to have a monopoly on the entire land-line phone system back before they were split up in the 1980s, and ever since then the various companies they were split into have been merging with each other, and now it's looking like we're getting closer and closer to the original entity being reconstituted. Of course, given the incompatibility between the CDMA system that Verizon and Sprint use and the GSM system that AT&T and T-Mobile use, we'll probably see it consolidate into two main carriers rather than one on the mobile side - at least until the CDMA and GSM carriers eventually end up replacing their systems with the same thing, which will probably happen by the time we're 5G or 6G or something.

Ticking sound coming from a .pkg package? Don't let the .bom go off! Inspect it first with Pacifist. Macworld - five mice!
     
Peter
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: England | San Francisco
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 4, 2007, 04:04 AM
 
I think in the EU phones cannot be tied to one network.
we don't have time to stop for gas
     
matty-uk
Forum Regular
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: St Helens, Merseyside
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 4, 2007, 04:19 AM
 
Isn't there the anti-monopoly law over here or something. Besides I don't think Apple would go with certain UK carriers because they stick their stupid logos on the phones and would ruin the iPhone.
     
analogika  (op)
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 888500128
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 4, 2007, 06:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
I think in the EU phones cannot be tied to one network.
Well, this is just for Germany.

I thought this wouldn't be possible for a single country, either, but I may have been wrong.
     
analogika  (op)
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 888500128
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 4, 2007, 06:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by matty-uk View Post
Besides I don't think Apple would go with certain UK carriers because they stick their stupid logos on the phones and would ruin the iPhone.
That argument holds no water: People assumed the same thing when they switched to Intel.

Apple will NOT put third-party stickers or logos on their stuff.
     
matty-uk
Forum Regular
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: St Helens, Merseyside
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 4, 2007, 07:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
That argument holds no water: People assumed the same thing when they switched to Intel.

Apple will NOT put third-party stickers or logos on their stuff.
Sorry I mean to say wouldn't sorry.
     
Since EBCDIC
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: San Francisco
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 4, 2007, 01:58 PM
 
Yes, T-Mobile in the USA is a daughter company of Deutsche Telekom.

Yes, they're way better here in the USA.

Yes, I switched away from them despite years of happy service because I needed the iPhone (only slightly less than I "need" air :-))

(marimba sounds; I smile)
Since EBCDIC
Using Macs since they were Lisas.
     
TETENAL
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: FFM
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 4, 2007, 03:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
I think in the EU phones cannot be tied to one network.
Sure they can.
     
mduell
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 4, 2007, 03:56 PM
 
T-mo in Germany is just like ATT in the USA. Big former monopoly telecom with terrible service.
     
TETENAL
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: FFM
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 4, 2007, 04:03 PM
 
T-Mobile isn't as bad as analogica want's you to believe. You can have problems with any carrier. T-Mobile isn't particularly worse than the others and the others are former state monopolies as well (E-Plus: KPN Netherlands, O₂: Telefonica Spain). They are just not the cheapest. That's why I am not a customer of Deutsche Telekom.

Vodafone would be worse. They extremely cripple their phones and access to the net to squeeze money out of every possible thing you do. If they offered the iPhone at least 5 of the buttons on the home screen would take you online to Vodafone's servers and there wouldn't be a "slide to unlock" slider so that they could charge you from going online accidently.
     
hojo
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jun 2007
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 4, 2007, 11:25 PM
 
Please. Apple negotiated a deal with AT&T for a piece of the rate structure, complete control of the retail channel and even a re-vamp of AT&T's data network. This is not the telecom giant calling the shots on this deal. Carrier logos and crippled features are not in the cards for the iPhone in Europe.
     
analogika  (op)
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 888500128
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 5, 2007, 04:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
Vodafone would be worse. They extremely cripple their phones and access to the net to squeeze money out of every possible thing you do. If they offered the iPhone at least 5 of the buttons on the home screen would take you online to Vodafone's servers and there wouldn't be a "slide to unlock" slider so that they could charge you from going online accidently.
Have you seen what T-Mobile does to SE phones in Germany?

Almost as bad as Vodafone. *Almost.*
     
Nexus5
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: fourth sector
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 5, 2007, 05:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
Same basic company, except that in the United States, they actually have customers who praise them!

This is completely unimaginable with T-Mobile in Germany.

Imagine if your drivers' licensing bureau suddenly turned into a private corporation, and then turned their entire phone system into a pay-per-minute automated hotline system. Now imagine that only one fourth of those people are qualified to hold the job they have, but the rest cannot be fired because they are legacy bureaucratic officials.

Now imagine THAT company becoming the exclusive distributor for the iPhone.

That is is the situation here, right now.

I am SO puking.
This is complete bullshit. Your strange comparison is based wrong information. Check your sources!

nexus5.
     
analogika  (op)
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 888500128
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2007, 07:03 AM
 
My sources?

...over ten years of BEING a Telekom customer?

What the hell are you talking about?
     
Nexus5
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: fourth sector
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 6, 2007, 07:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
My sources?

...over ten years of BEING a Telekom customer?

What the hell are you talking about?
No. I am talking about the

"Now imagine that only one fourth of those people are qualified to hold the job they have, but the rest cannot be fired because they are legacy bureaucratic officials." crap.

nexus5.
     
analogika  (op)
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 888500128
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 8, 2007, 03:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Nexus5 View Post
No. I am talking about the

"Now imagine that only one fourth of those people are qualified to hold the job they have, but the rest cannot be fired because they are legacy bureaucratic officials." crap.
Yes, true.

They've already managed to fire 100,000 of them, but somehow it's not helping.

There's also several ten thousand they're desperately trying to get rid of by forcing them into new contracts. And a couple of thousand they got rid of by moving them over to the Toll Collect folks, where they took a two-year project and turned it into a five-year chaos.

In panic over the hundreds of thousands of customers they are losing, they have begun a desperate "service offensive" designed to stop the haemhorrhage.

Whether this is due to the fact that the 75% incompetents are not fired because they are legacy officials or because the structural and management deficits that are responsible for the absolute horror that is Telekom have simply misplaced them and they are absolutely qualified individuals, just not in the positions they hold or within the structure that has misplaced them and rendered them incompetent, is something I can not judge, and I apologize should I have offended you by doing so.
     
Nexus5
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: fourth sector
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 9, 2007, 06:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
Yes, true.

They've already managed to fire 100,000 of them, but somehow it's not helping.

There's also several ten thousand they're desperately trying to get rid of by forcing them into new contracts. And a couple of thousand they got rid of by moving them over to the Toll Collect folks, where they took a two-year project and turned it into a five-year chaos.

In panic over the hundreds of thousands of customers they are losing, they have begun a desperate "service offensive" designed to stop the haemhorrhage.

Whether this is due to the fact that the 75% incompetents are not fired because they are legacy officials or because the structural and management deficits that are responsible for the absolute horror that is Telekom have simply misplaced them and they are absolutely qualified individuals, just not in the positions they hold or within the structure that has misplaced them and rendered them incompetent, is something I can not judge, and I apologize should I have offended you by doing so.
So what are you talking about? Telekom or T-Mobile?? I your previous post you were talking about T-Mobile germany. Now you are talking about Deutsche Telekom. These are two different companies! And I repeat: When you say:
Now imagine that only one fourth of those people are qualified to hold the job they have, but the rest cannot be fired because they are legacy bureaucratic officials.
you are just plain wrong.

nexus5.
     
analogika  (op)
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 888500128
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 9, 2007, 06:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by Nexus5 View Post
So what are you talking about? Telekom or T-Mobile?? I your previous post you were talking about T-Mobile germany. Now you are talking about Deutsche Telekom. These are two different companies!
No, they are not.

T-Mobile is a subdivision of Deutsche Telekom, and their structural deficits and customer interaction chaos are a result of their common ancestry.

And I already addressed your point about the officials.
     
   
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:55 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,