[OAW]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

You can walk all night long with your sisters. Or you family.

.....

OIC. That seems more like a typo. You'll have to take that up with http://magnustoday.net. They produced the transcript.

OAW

[Shaddim]

A lot of this is stream of consciousness stuff, it may not be entirely PC but I'm going to throw it out anyway.

Certain people had almost instantly whipped themselves into such a frenzy that no one had even considered his wife's stake in the team, regardless of whether she has a right to it or not. Then, when it was brought up in the media, within minutes the smearing of her began. I don't know Sterling personally, and after seeing the interviews and reading accounts from enemies and associates alike, I don't want to. However, when all this broke I didn't know much about the guy at all, certainly not enough to crucify him in the name of public opinion. Some actions and comments you can't just take back, and in the current society where attention spans are now measured in seconds, instead of minutes (let alone hours), thoughtful consideration is becoming a rarity. There's little to no self-control in certain issues today, few people stop to consider the long term ramifications of some actions. In the heat of the moment they want to just land on the neck of the accused, tear him or her to pieces, and then perhaps later on consider if what they did was the "right thing".

I admit that my natural reaction is to pull in the opposite direction of media push, a reaction that I've fostered for decades now, because I simply don't trust many people and there always seems to be another agenda at work. It's interesting that opposing views are vilified to the point of becoming "dangerous", even if another person is simply trying to slow the tempo and sound out other perspectives. Someone via PM brought out a great point not long ago when they said, "some people now look at differing perspectives as being categorically immoral, something to be destroyed". That's not healthy, for society or the individual. "You're trying to shift this all away from the main point!" Of course I am, that IS the point.

On another front, I have to admit that I *despise* the Hip-hop/Baller culture, outside of Islam there's not a more sexist and racist den of social corruption anywhere else in the Western world, in my opinion, and now it's so ingrained in the NBA that it's nearly impossible to tell where one ends and the other begins. It's a self-feeding machine of ego, misogyny, greed, and racism, all glitzed-up and packaged for teenage consumption. At the root of that "culture" are the Fivers (5% Nation), and they're nothing more than the negative* mirror image of the Klan or Aryan Brotherhood (hello Jay-Z). "You can't say that!" ****, whatever. They can make all the excuses they want, they're still bigots.


(* As in a photographic negative, not that one is better or worse than the other.)

Should the Sterlings be ousted as NBA owners? Sure. Sincerely, they do seem to be awful people, and it's absolutely true that they don't fit with the image the NBA wants to project (even if that projection is something worse than they ever were). It's a fact that they don't belong together.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Stogieman 

Only if he has it labeled on his wallet.

Apparently.

[subego]

That transcript actually makes me feel more sympathetic towards Sterling.

He's pretty clearly trying to communicate this is making him feel vulnerable. Rich and powerful men often do a bad job explaining their vulnerabilities.

Likewise, when dealing with someone who is vulnerable, demonstrating how you're right, which is what Stiviano was doing, is not the proper tactic.

It sounds to me like his octogenarian pals gave him shit, and that made him feel like an old fart. I find his (I'm paraphrasing) "if you get something out of it, then do it" statement notable. What's pissing him off is he thinks what she gets out of it doesn't compare to the pipe he's getting from Statler and Waldorf.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by subego 

That transcript actually makes me feel more sympathetic towards Sterling.

Me too. After reading it all, I couldn't believe this is what the big deal is all about.

[subego]

It's also notable he keeps on repeating things along the lines of "why are you saying these horrible things to me?"

It doesn't sound like he's agreeing with Stiviano's take on the situation.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

A lot of this is stream of consciousness stuff, it may not be entirely PC but I'm going to throw it out anyway.

Certain people had almost instantly whipped themselves into such a frenzy that no one had even considered his wife's stake in the team, regardless of whether she has a right to it or not. Then, when it was brought up in the media, within minutes the smearing of her began.

Smearing her? You mean the woman who was a co-defendant with Mr. Sterling on two separate racial housing discrimination cases? Who's also been accused of making racist statements herself?

Donald Sterling's wife hasn't escaped controversy either - Los Angeles Times

Shelly Sterling is hardly the victim in her husband's saga. | SportsonEarth.com : Mike Piellucci Article

Rochelle Sterling accused of racist remarks | abc7.com

Sterling sued by DOJ for housing discrimination - NBA - ESPN

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

On another front, I have to admit that I *despise* the Hip-hop/Baller culture, outside of Islam there's not a more sexist and racist den of social corruption anywhere else in the Western world, in my opinion, and now it's so ingrained in the NBA that it's nearly impossible to tell where one ends and the other begins. It's a self-feeding machine of ego, misogyny, greed, and racism, all glitzed-up and packaged for teenage consumption. At the root of that "culture" are the Fivers (5% Nation), and they're nothing more than the negative* mirror image of the Klan or Aryan Brotherhood (hello Jay-Z). "You can't say that!" ****, whatever. They can make all the excuses they want, they're still bigots.

That fact that you refer to them as "Fivers" speaks volumes. If you are going to be critical of a group at least be informed enough to know the right name. And the fact that you think the Five Percenters are the "root" of something as broad and diverse as Hip Hop culture is illustrative of your tendency to opine authoritatively about topics that you obviously know little about.

The primary elements of Hip Hop culture are ...

Oral - MCing or Rapping

Aural - DJing and/or Beatboxing

Physical - Break Dancing

Visual - Graffiti

That's it! There is nothing about the Five Percenters that is the genesis let alone the central focus of Hip Hop culture. The Five Percenters are participants in Hip Hop culture not the progenitors of it. Just like Rock & Roll culture isn't defined by the racist ideology of the Neo-Nazi bands that play that genre of music, so too is Hip Hop culture not defined by the racist religious theology that is embraced to one degree or another by the Five Percenters who are involved.

OAW

[OAW]

Originally Posted by subego 

That transcript actually makes me feel more sympathetic towards Sterling.

Me too. Sterling is by no means a poster child for the KKK. And in some ways he's being vilified in the press as if he were. He's actually more of a "I love the black people as long as they aren't around my woman in public or there's too many of them in my housing complexes." kind of racist. Clearly less vitriolic ... but still problematic.

OAW

[OAW]

Originally Posted by subego 

It's also notable he keeps on repeating things along the lines of "why are you saying these horrible things to me?"

It doesn't sound like he's agreeing with Stiviano's take on the situation.

Of course he doesn't agree with her. Denial about racism is so deeply ingrained these days that you even see the Klan swearing they aren't "racist". The issue is that he refuses to take his comments to their logical conclusion. He wants to be able to say and think what he wills .... but doesn't want to deal with the consequences and repercussions that come with that.

OAW

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

Yes, well, we have already discussed my feeling that you tend to throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater when it comes to being effective and getting one thing done at a time.

I don't have a clue what you're talking about here.

Just getting rid of Sterling is going to be a difficult process that will drag on forever and waste precious resources; it would be an all-consuming media circus if this turned into some kind of massive review process of racism in all its forms.

I've never suggested there be a massive review of racism in all its forms.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by subego 

It's also notable he keeps on repeating things along the lines of "why are you saying these horrible things to me?"

It doesn't sound like he's agreeing with Stiviano's take on the situation.

He's more like "old fart" racism, not active "I hate them all".

Originally Posted by OAW 

Smearing her? You mean the woman who was a co-defendant with Mr. Sterling on two separate racial housing discrimination cases? Who's also been accused of making racist statements herself?

Donald Sterling's wife hasn't escaped controversy either - Los Angeles Times

Shelly Sterling is hardly the victim in her husband's saga. | SportsonEarth.com : Mike Piellucci Article

Rochelle Sterling accused of racist remarks | abc7.com

Sterling sued by DOJ for housing discrimination - NBA - ESPN

That makes my point, though that many links to the same story is a little excessive? When the LA Times asked the question, "What about Mrs Sterling?", within 30 minutes the news wire was flooded with those few transgressions, amplified, then repeated again. I LITERALLY sat back in my chair and said, "Jesus Christ, what in the hell is going on?" She's not running for national public office. What's the PR angle on this? Are the Clippers worth this much? I guess so. Whoever the firm was that's handled this, they put in some major overtime.

That fact that you refer to them as "Fivers" speaks volumes. If you are going to be critical of a group at least be informed enough to know the right name. And the fact that you think the Five Percenters are the "root" of something as broad and diverse as Hip Hop culture is illustrative of your tendency to opine authoritatively about topics that you obviously know little about.

The primary elements of Hip Hop culture are ...

Oral - MCing or Rapping

Aural - DJing and/or Beatboxing

Physical - Break Dancing

Visual - Graffiti

That's it! There is nothing about the Five Percenters that is the genesis let alone the central focus of Hip Hop culture. The Five Percenters are participants in Hip Hop culture not the progenitors of it. Just like Rock & Roll culture isn't defined by the racist ideology of the Neo-Nazi bands that play that genre of music, so too is Hip Hop culture not defined by the racist religious theology that is embraced to one degree or another by the Five Percenters who are involved.

OAW

I wasn't talking about elements of Rap or its history, I'm pointing out the current movers of the industry, where the money is. They (the hip-hop/baller/gangsta culture) are in the driver's seat and represent the modern incarnation. Jay-Z, Snoop, Dre, and all their apostles, they've made their $billions from racism, misogyny, corruption, and violence, and it saturates the NBA. That's the whom they want to associate with.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Do you always frame everything as a left vs right issue, don't answer that since it's rhetorical.

Do you always overlook the repeated indictments against "conservatives" in your policing here? Of course it's left vs r... never mind.

It's called deflection. Shaddim and Ebuddy have no interest in the NBA or it's rules, but only see this issue as a reason to defend the poor rich whites of this country and the hardships they face in the media.

Deflection? You've not put enough effort into my posts to think you have even the slightest idea of who I am. I don't look at people in terms of their wealth or their skin color, but I am tired of what has become an increasingly juvenile and shamelessly-political attack machine against disagreement. I've said nothing other than Sterling has exactly what's coming to him. I'm certainly not going to apologize for my expose on the feigned outrage and indignation of antagonist, 99%-ers (is that okay?) who don't realize they're arguing about which gazillionaires win-out or can't explain why Justin Bieber ended up in a thread on oligarchy. This usually begins about the time we're having trouble addressing any of the points I would think are predictable arguments these days from the right, given your psycho-analytical prowess of course... never mind this too.

Donald and his wife are both unrepentant racists that will no longer own an NBA team because the NBA gets to decide how its image is presented and sold.

Right, as noted in his contract and subject to a majority vote. And I really don't think it'll take as long or be near as contentious as ShortcutToMoncton supposed earlier. It would be a good and positive thing for his ouster to be swift and sure and I believe it will be.

[OAW]

Shaddim,

The "movers of the industry" are the corporations that own the record labels. Which have overwhelmingly NOT been owned and controlled by people who look like the typical person making the music. The "gangsta" culture you so rightly decry? That's a product of not only the "artists" who spew that bullsh*t but also Corporate America which promotes it. Without the latter that particular sub-genre of Hip Hop would not have the prominence that it does. It is a sad commentary that so many Hip Hop artists can't get radio play or video budgets or album promotion unless they conform to the label's demand for that "n*gga-b*tch-ho" crap. And if they don't they are relegated to "Indie" status. It's a sad commentary that so many people's only exposure to Hip Hop is that nonsense. And they then form negative opinions on Hip Hop culture as a whole based upon the narrow slice they see in the mainstream media.

OAW

[subego]

I still feel if the problem was Magic Johnson being black, Sterling wouldn't have said he's fine if Stiviano is getting something out of it. He draws a very clear line in the sand for when he finds the behavior acceptable, and that line has nothing to do with Johnson's blackness.

Also, consider where he got the impression she wasn't getting anything out of it. That had to come from somewhere.

[OAW]

^^^^

Well seeing how he said MULTIPLE times that he didn't like her associating with black people IN PUBLIC I'm curious as to why you think there is an explanation other than what his own words EXPLICITLY indicate? Especially considering the fact that he ducked her question when she asked if he would be upset if it had been Larry Bird vs Magic Johnson in the picture.

OAW

[subego]

Umm... I'm going off the transcript which you said you posted so we could be clear what this was about.

Then I get dinged for not taking into account the other quotes where he's really racist?



Edit: disregard. I misread your post.

[subego]

Originally Posted by OAW 

^^^^

Well seeing how he said MULTIPLE times that he didn't like her associating with black people IN PUBLIC I'm curious as to why you think there is an explanation other than what his own words EXPLICITLY indicate? Especially considering the fact that he ducked her question when she asked if he would be upset if it had been Larry Bird vs Magic Johnson in the picture.

OAW

The problem he has with it is Statler and Waldorf give him lip at the social club. They wouldn't do that with Larry Bird. She knows that, and he knows she knows that.

Why does he say it's okay if she gets something out of it? Because everyone would somehow read her mind and think differently about the exact same event?

[OAW]

I will say this. Even though Shelly Sterling has a troubling history herself with respect to race, at the end of the day she's not the one in the wrong in this particular situation. So on the one hand I don't think it's cool that she might lose her ownership stake in the team. But on the other hand, Sterling purchased the team for $12.5 million in in 1981. Forbes recently valued it at $575 million and other reports are saying that the team could go for up to $1 billion. So even with a forced sale Shelly Sterling will be quite alright. I can understand the NBA's concern that if Shelly Sterling retains her ownership stake Donald Sterling may still control the team with her as his proxy even though ostensibly he would be out. So it seems to me that if she really wants to keep her stake in the team that bad she should go ahead and pull the trigger on the divorce. That would undercut the NBA's argument that she would simply be Sterling's proxy. And if it turns out that there is a pre-nup that would undermine her financial interests in the team or otherwise in case of a divorce ... well then I guess it just sucks to be her.

OAW

[The Final Dakar]

Another ownership group is free to offer Shelly Sterling a spot to right the wrong as well. If they think it might help their chances.

[OAW]

This guy is the gift that just keeps on giving!

The Donald Sterling tapes just won't stop. Maybe he should stop speaking to anyone who isn't his lawyer?

At any rate, the Daily Mail received new recordings of the embattled Los Angeles Clippers owner allegedly speaking to his friend, black hip-hop artist Maserati, who leaked the conversation. According to the news site, the artist did so because he thought Sterling "crossed the line."

In the recordings, Sterling slams girlfriend V. Stiviano, calling her the "most discriminatory person" he's ever met and calling her out for allegedly bleaching her skin and wishing she was white. Stiviano is half black, half Mexican.

"She tried so hard to make her skin white," Sterling said. "She did it every night—her feet and her hands. She asked me did I like black skin. I really didn't think about the color of her skin.

"She was really a fighter and it was always about race—about, you know—that's what she liked to talk about and how she had such a hard time as a black girl growing up in L.A. downtown," he added.

The 80-year-old also said that it was Stiviano, 50 years his junior, who approached him and lured him in, claiming to want to be "friends." He also talked about the price he paid just to sleep with her.

"I'm paying a very high price for trying to get a girl hot and make it with her. Everybody in the world wants to f--k her. Listen, I'm telling you she was hot. It took me maybe an hour to get there, but it was hot. So why did I do it? Because I'm 80 years old," he said in the recording, according to the Daily Mail.

"I am an 80-year-old man and tried to make it with a girl. I did it before. It wasn't easy. I'd say anything to her. She was an animal," he said. "I wanted to help her as she never had food, never had clothes. She has a fabulous body and loves to have sex. What if I helped her and her family? I hate to admit it in front of my wife."

He also accused Stiviano of mistreating her family members. "If you talk to them people, you'll get all this information she's just mean. She won't feed the girls—her sisters—they go to bed without dinner. Unbelievable. She's a monster, they call her 'the Monster.' She's just 30 years old and she's the only one that's got money that she got from me—she never had it before," Sterling said. "And she was gonna wheelbarrow over everybody—everybody—she told people where to sleep, where to go, what to do, and to drive her."

Sterling's verbal assault against his girlfriend allegedly continued, down to him accusing the younger woman of trying to blackmail him and threatening to "bring [him] down" if she didn't get money.

"She wanted more money but I said no. I gave her money. I could have stopped it [the leaked recording] and give her more. But then she would have been back after two weeks," he said. "I think she picks people and then invests all of her time and energy into that. But if you don't give her what she wants, look out. Look what she did here."

New Donald Sterling Rant Leaked, Claims V. Stiviano Is the Real Racist - The Root

It's looking more and more like this is variation of the classic tale of an Old Rich Dude getting played by the Hot Young Gold Digger. Perhaps if he had more game about himself he wouldn't be in this situation?

Mistake #1: At the end of the day no one forced you to make those racist comments and give her an opening to exploit. Dude! You are sitting on over a billion dollars. So what if Statler and Waldorf gave you a hard time about your side piece posting a picture on Instagram with a black dude? When you have that many zeros in your net worth "No F*cks Given" can EASILY be your state of mind about someone else's opinion! Unless, of course, it's your opinion too.

Mistake #2: You never ... I repeat NEVER ... give a side piece MONEY! Dude! You are 80 years old, fat, and sloppy. Did you really think she wanted you for your charm and good looks? Obviously she wants you for your wallet. But you don't actually give that to a gold-digger. That's like giving heroin to a dope fiend. A true Sugar Daddy provides a LIFESTYLE! You don't put money in this chick's bank account. You give her a credit card to go shopping that YOU control. You let her drive a car that YOU own. You set her up in a condo that YOU own. She takes trips with you on the private jet that YOU own. That way if she gets out of pocket ... like she apparently did here ... that LIFESTYLE she's become accustomed to can easily be REVOKED. She's not going to throw you under the bus when that means she walks away with NOTHING. But your dumb ass actually gave her money. She got greedy and apparently tried to blackmail you for more. But now she's in a position to walk away with SOMETHING when you didn't give in. And set her sights on the next sucker.

OAW

[The Final Dakar]

"I'm paying a very high price for trying to get a girl hot and make it with her. Everybody in the world wants to f--k her. Listen, I'm telling you she was hot. It took me maybe an hour to get there, but it was hot. So why did I do it? Because I'm 80 years old," he said in the recording, according to the Daily Mail.

"I am an 80-year-old man and tried to make it with a girl. I did it before. It wasn't easy. I'd say anything to her. She was an animal," he said. "I wanted to help her as she never had food, never had clothes. She has a fabulous body and loves to have sex. What if I helped her and her family? I hate to admit it in front of my wife."

This is ****ing-fantastic.

[subego]

@OAW,

Why did he say it was okay if she got something out of it?

He should say ****-off to S&W because they tease him about his piece? That's a little extreme, don't you think? Do powerful, rich men act vulnerable around their powerful, rich friends, or their mistresses?

[OAW]

^^^

Please cite the quote you are referring to. I'm not seeing it so perhaps you are paraphrasing?

OAW

[subego]

This is the quote I'm thinking of:

"There is no negativity. I love everybody. I’m just saying, in your lousy ****ing Instagrams, you don’t have to have yourself with, walking with black people. You don’t have to. If you want to, do it."

Not saying it's "okay", but gives her leave to do it if she wants to.

If this was purely an issue of him not liking black people, I don't think her feelings would count for much. He'd use a different metric for acceptability.

[The Final Dakar]

I don't think he doesn't like black people. But I do think he thinks they're fundamentally different from white people in some disturbing ways.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by subego 

This is the quote I'm thinking of:

"There is no negativity. I love everybody. I’m just saying, in your lousy ****ing Instagrams, you don’t have to have yourself with, walking with black people. You don’t have to. If you want to, do it."

Not saying it's "okay", but gives her leave to do it if she wants to.

If this was purely an issue of him not liking black people, I don't think her feelings would count for much. He'd use a different metric for acceptability.

I disagree. And I'll tell you why. Before he said that he also said this ...

Originally Posted by Don Sterling

I feel that way so strongly, and it may cause our relationship to just break apart. And if it does, it does. It’s better to break apart now, than to break apart later.

And this ...

Originally Posted by Don Sterling

How about your whole life, everyday, you could whatever you want. You can sleep with them, you can bring them in, you can do whatever you want. The little I ask you is not to promote it on that…and not to bring them to my games.

This doesn't come across to me like her "feelings count for much" with him. What he's saying is that she can do whatever she wants when it comes to associating with black people PRIVATELY. But he's telling her in no uncertain terms that if she continues associating with black people IN PUBLIC he will break up with her about it.

This situation is no different than a white guy being "cool" with minorities in his own dealings with them. But he has a big problem with his "little delicate white" daughter associating with minorities PUBLICLY. Like how it was fine when the kids of wealthy white people played with the kids of the black domestic staff. They could even be the best of friends IN THE HOUSE. But outside in PUBLIC? Well then they had to maintain their "proper station". Especially once they were no longer little kids. And make no mistake about it. You couldn't convince these people that there was anything wrong with this. They'd swear on a stack of Bibles that they weren't "racist". Because after all, they were always good to their "Nigras".

It reminds me of a situation I came across back in college. There was this tall, blonde, white girl. Star player on the volleyball team. And drop dead gorgeous. And there was also this tall, black dude. Star player on the basketball team. Good looking brother himself. And known to have a proclivity for white girls. To such a degree that not a single one of my college buddies ever saw him date or be otherwise involved with a black girl during the entire time we went to school together. The kind of dude who I would have referred to as a "Self-Hating Negro " back in my more "militant" days. And now that I've "mellowed" over the years I would just say "Whatever. If he's color-struck on that level then the sisters are better off without him anyway. " But I digress ... that's a topic for another thread. Let's just say that this was one of those situations where Ms. Blonde Bombshell had no problem having the brother slide by her dorm room in the middle of the night to lay that pipe. They were actually pretty good friends behind closed doors. But in PUBLIC the next day? She'd walk by him on the quad and act like she didn't even know him. Not because she had a boyfriend or anything like that. She was widely known to be single and most of the white guys on campus were eager to rectify that situation for her. No it was pretty clear why should she played it that way when other people were around. I remember asking this brother how he could put himself out there like that? In my mind I was thinking "Have you no self-respect?" But since we were cool I just said how could he allow her to be so fake and disrespectful towards him? Well, suffice it to say that he was a bit of a horn dog and all he cared about was the panties dropping. So I just told him to be careful. Because a chick like that would be quick to holler "Rape!" if her daddy ever found out or if word spread around campus. And he could easily find himself sharing a cell with some dude with bad intentions towards his buttocks all because he just had to have a piece of that "little delicate white" flower. Just saying ...

OAW

[subego]

I'm not saying it's not that, but I'm not convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt it is.

What I feel is being missed to some extent, is the inherent awkwardness in an 80-year-old having a "relationship" with a 30-year-old, especially this pair.

To put it simply, it's a bullshit relationship, and both parties know it. There's an unbelievable amount of lying going on between these two. It's a willingly delusional dance around the elephant sitting right there.

While I understand the idea he has enough money he shouldn't give a ****, about anything, I see the proof in the pudding. If money was doing it for him, he wouldn't have to fill the empty holes in his life with gold diggers.

For that reason, it wouldn't surprise me he does care what Statler and Waldorf say, at least insofar the "I hear V. likes the BBC" comments ruin the delusion he's worked so hard to build up.

[OAW]

^^^

Ok now I get where you are coming from. But given the history of his racial discrimination lawsuits it's rather difficult to give him the benefit of the doubt. After all this is the guy who faced the largest housing discrimination suit ever. This is the guy that was accused of racial and age discrimination by former NBA legend Elgin Baylor who served as General Manager for the Clippers for 28 years. He said Sterling ran the organization with a "plantation type structure" and even told him that he wanted an all black team with "poor black boys from the South with a white coach". IOW ... it's not the first time with him.

OAW

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by subego 

I'm not saying it's not that, but I'm not convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt it is.

What I feel is being missed to some extent, is the inherent awkwardness in an 80-year-old having a "relationship" with a 30-year-old, especially this pair.

To put it simply, it's a bullshit relationship, and both parties know it. There's an unbelievable amount of lying going on between these two. It's a willingly delusional dance around the elephant sitting right there.

While I understand the idea he has enough money he shouldn't give a ****, about anything, I see the proof in the pudding. If money was doing it for him, he wouldn't have to fill the empty holes in his life with gold diggers.

For that reason, it wouldn't surprise me he does care what Statler and Waldorf say, at least insofar the "I hear V. likes the BBC" comments ruin the delusion he's worked so hard to build up.

Money will buy prostitutes, as many as you want, but it won't buy a companion that will constantly show affection and be interested in you. Sooner or later they will leave or start doing things that hurt you. It's the nature of the people who can be easily bought. No matter your age, for less money than you probably think, you can fill your pool with porn stars every weekend, but don't expect them to be there for you when you have a personal crisis. Money can never buy real loyalty, that's the simple truth.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by OAW 

Shaddim,

The "movers of the industry" are the corporations that own the record labels. Which have overwhelmingly NOT been owned and controlled by people who look like the typical person making the music. The "gangsta" culture you so rightly decry? That's a product of not only the "artists" who spew that bullsh*t but also Corporate America which promotes it. Without the latter that particular sub-genre of Hip Hop would not have the prominence that it does. It is a sad commentary that so many Hip Hop artists can't get radio play or video budgets or album promotion unless they conform to the label's demand for that "n*gga-b*tch-ho" crap. And if they don't they are relegated to "Indie" status. It's a sad commentary that so many people's only exposure to Hip Hop is that nonsense. And they then form negative opinions on Hip Hop culture as a whole based upon the narrow slice they see in the mainstream media.

OAW

Critics praise The Roots, but people throw money at Jay-Z, Eminem, and Li'l Wayne. They, and their type, control that entire segment of "entertainment" because they make the dollars, then that bleeds over into any other industry it touches.

[unicast reversepath]

Originally Posted by Sealobo 

Basketball on Movie 43 - YouTube

Brother, you just made my day - that is some hilarious $hit!

[subego]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Critics praise The Roots, but people throw money at Jay-Z, Eminem, and Li'l Wayne. They, and their type, control that entire segment of "entertainment" because they make the dollars, then that bleeds over into any other industry it touches.

To put it another way, the industry controls supply, sure. They don't control demand.

[subego]

Something I think I need to clarify.

I'm not arguing whether Sterling is racist, I'm arguing whether he's racist enough to be forced out of the NBA.

In that context, you need to consider being sued in public for discrimination, twice, wasn't enough to can him, but a private conversation can be the straw which breaks the camel's back? I don't see the NBA claiming they ****ed up by doing it this late, so AFAIC, they've shown they don't care about the lawsuits. Deeds, not words.

Likewise, in the court of public opinion, the unlikelihood of my scenarios is enough to dismiss them. If it was just that, I probably wouldn't bother. Dig yourself out of that hole. This goes beyond public opinion though, to whether he should be forced to sell.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Sealobo

Basketball on Movie 43 - YouTube

Originally Posted by unicast~reversepath 

Brother, you just made my day - that is some hilarious $hit!

How have I NOT heard of this movie? AWESOME!

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[OAW]

Originally Posted by subego 

To put it another way, the industry controls supply, sure. They don't control demand.

Exactly.

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[subego]

Originally Posted by OAW 

^^^

Ok now I get where you are coming from. But given the history of his racial discrimination lawsuits it's rather difficult to give him the benefit of the doubt. After all this is the guy who faced the largest housing discrimination suit ever. This is the guy that was accused of racial and age discrimination by former NBA legend Elgin Baylor who served as General Manager for the Clippers for 28 years. He said Sterling ran the organization with a "plantation type structure" and even told him that he wanted an all black team with "poor black boys from the South with a white coach". IOW ... it's not the first time with him.

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I answered this, then somehow didn't hit post.

My summary...

Baylor called a very late foul (which calls his motives into question), and the discrimination settlements are pocket change to Sterling. I can't say I wouldn't pay an analogous sum to make it go away, even if I was innocent. I'm almost positive it would cost me more to fight it. That's how the settlement game works.


Read my above post as if it came after this one.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by subego 

Something I think I need to clarify.

I'm not arguing whether Sterling is racist, I'm arguing whether he's racist enough to be forced out of the NBA.

In that context, you need to consider being sued in public for discrimination, twice, wasn't enough to can him, but a private conversation can be the straw which breaks the camel's back? I don't see the NBA claiming they ****ed up by doing it this late, so AFAIC, they've shown they don't care about the lawsuits. Deeds, not words.

Likewise, in the court of public opinion, the unlikelihood of my scenarios is enough to dismiss them. If it was just that, I probably wouldn't bother. Dig yourself out of that hole. This goes beyond public opinion though, to whether he should be forced to sell.

I think it's because with the lawsuits there's "plausible deniability". Yeah he settled but companies that are sued often settle and never officially admit any wrongdoing. Sometimes it's better to just make it go away rather than fight. Though given the testimony of the tenants this was by no means a frivolous lawsuit. The man is a slumlord. Let's just be honest. Moreover, none of that directly involved the NBA. But in this situation, not only is he caught on tape sounding like a white dude who thinks he's still living in a pre-Civil Rights era ... he also brought the NBA into it when he told the woman this ....

Originally Posted by Donald Sterling

I think that fact that you admire him — I’ve known him well, and he should be admired. And I’m just saying that it’s too bad you can’t admire him privately, and during YOUR ENTIRE ****ING LIFE, your whole life, admire him, bring him here, feed him, f*ck him, I don’t care. You can do anything. But don’t put him on an Instagram for the world to have to see so they have to call me. And don’t bring him to my games. OK?

... about Magic Johnson. I mean we are talking Magic Johnson here! One of the most beloved NBA stars in history. And he also said that about her being seeing with black people in general at the games. So in a nutshell, the guy is taking the attitude that black players can line your pockets with millions of dollars ... but can't be seen next to your "delicate white or delicate Latina girl" at the game. And that's just not going to fly. We already have NBA players saying they'll boycott if he is still an owner next season. And that will cost the other very wealthy NBA franchise owners a sh*tload of money. So it's a wrap on this dude. Any discussion about whether he should be "forced to sell" is purely academic at this stage in the game. His continued ownership of the LA Clippers given the circumstances is simply untenable. Now Shelly Sterling OTOH is a different matter in that regard. As I said earlier, if she really wants to keep her stake on the team she's going to have to pull the trigger on that divorce. Otherwise, it's a wrap on her too.

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[subego]

Here... let me put it in the form of a scenario.

I'm going to use "you", but I don't mean you, I mean you in Sterling's $2,000 a pair shoes.

Let's say, hypothetically, Statler and Waldorf see your hot little number with someone the likes of Magic Johnson, and they automatically assume he's ****ing her. I'm sure they see someone like him and wish their dicks traveled a thousandth the distance his has. They're jealous of him. They're jealous of you, because you've been bragging about how you're banging the shit out of her, and she totally does the _________.

Statler and Waldorf are pricks, just like you, otherwise you wouldn't be able to stand each other's company. What do they do? They rub your face in it, make a bunch of AIDS jokes, and mark another win in the ledger for the game one-upsmanship rich, old assholes play with each other.

Of course, she is a hot piece of ass, and actually does do the _________, but things don't go down exactly the way you say it to Statler and Waldorf. This "delicate flower" is taking you for a ****ing ride, and you didn't make billions by not having honed instincts for when that's happening to you. The whole situation is ****ed up, and only gives you real pleasure if you hide how ****ed up it is from yourself, which considering how you're letting yourself get milked, you think to yourself "she could play along just a little better. I'm not even asking for extra _________, only to play along with what this is supposed to be".

So, you tell her to knock it off. She immediately plays the race card, and unbeknownst to you, is taping it, so she'd really like for the argument to go down an unproductive road.

I think it's plausible this situation could make someone seem more racist than they actually are.

[subego]

I need a shower after that. I feel soiled.

[OAW]

^^^

I could go with that if Sterling took issue with her being seen with other guys in general. And let's face it. These old farts are in their 80s. ANY younger guy's junk is going to travel further than their shriveled up little d*cks!

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PS: Not saying this scenario isn't possible. Just saying it isn't probable.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by subego 

Here... let me put it in the form of a scenario.

I'm going to use "you", but I don't mean you, I mean you in Sterling's $2,000 a pair shoes.

Let's say, hypothetically, Statler and Waldorf see your hot little number with someone the likes of Magic Johnson, and they automatically assume he's ****ing her. I'm sure they see someone like him and wish their dicks traveled a thousandth the distance his has. They're jealous of him. They're jealous of you, because you've been bragging about how you're banging the shit out of her, and she totally does the _________.

Statler and Waldorf are pricks, just like you, otherwise you wouldn't be able to stand each other's company. What do they do? They rub your face in it, make a bunch of AIDS jokes, and mark another win in the ledger for the game one-upsmanship rich, old assholes play with each other.

Of course, she is a hot piece of ass, and actually does do the _________, but things don't go down exactly the way you say it to Statler and Waldorf. This "delicate flower" is taking you for a ****ing ride, and you didn't make billions by not having honed instincts for when that's happening to you. The whole situation is ****ed up, and only gives you real pleasure if you hide how ****ed up it is from yourself, which considering how you're letting yourself get milked, you think to yourself "she could play along just a little better. I'm not even asking for extra _________, only to play along with what this is supposed to be".

So, you tell her to knock it off. She immediately plays the race card, and unbeknownst to you, is taping it, so she'd really like for the argument to go down an unproductive road.

I think it's plausible this situation could make someone seem more racist than they actually are.

That's about right, I suspect. The HIV thing would scare the **** out of me, BTW. Not for casual contact, but anything involving blood or "juices"...

[subego]

Originally Posted by OAW 

^^^

I could go with that if Sterling took issue with her being seen with other guys in general. And let's face it. These old farts are in their 80s. ANY younger guy's junk is going to travel further than their shriveled up little d*cks!

OAW

PS: Not saying this scenario isn't possible. Just saying it isn't probable.

Why isn't there a distinct difference between being seen with other guys in general, and being seen with:

1) Someone who has ****ed so many women he's got the HIV.
2) Someone who the only reason she gets the time of day from is because she works for Sterling.
3) On Instagram.
4) At a ****ing Clippers game.



This would piss me off for reasons having nothing to do with race. I'd say I read relatively low on the racist continuum, but I can see things inappropriate for public consumption coming out of the private argument with my half-black mistress.

Who, despite what it appears from the transcript, was likely aware of her racial makeup going into the argument.

Mixed couples get frank about this shit, and sometimes cross lines in their private discussions.

[subego]

If anyone ever saw the "south of the border" episode of The Sopranos, that's the type of scenario I'm envisioning. It has everything to do with determining the internal pecking order through power games, and very little (if anything) to do with going "south of the border".

[OAW]

Originally Posted by subego 

Why isn't there a distinct difference between being seen with other guys in general, and being seen with:

1) Someone who has ****ed so many women he's got the HIV.
2) Someone who the only reason she gets the time of day from is because she works for Sterling.
3) On Instagram.
4) At a ****ing Clippers game.



This would piss me off for reasons having nothing to do with race. I'd say I read relatively low on the racist continuum, but I can see things inappropriate for public consumption coming out of the private argument with my half-black mistress.

Who, despite what it appears from the transcript, was likely aware of her racial makeup going into the argument.

Mixed couples get frank about this shit, and sometimes cross lines in their private discussions.

I think you are under the impression that the conversation was only about Magic Johnson. Yes he did come up. But he was not the only one. Again, as Magic Johnson has said he only met her once and paused briefly to pose for a picture with her. Typical celebrity stuff. But Sterling wasn't just talking about HIM when it came to the pictures on Instagram and bringing people to the games. Those were OTHER black guys. Magic Johnson never attended a game with Sterling's side piece because he doesn't know her like that. He also said he's only ever met Sterling in person a few times. And he's justifiably upset that his name is now all mixed up with their drama.

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[OAW]

It would appear Mr. Sterling sees the writing on the wall ...

Donald Sterling Signs Over Los Angeles Clippers to Wife Shelly - ABC News

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[OAW]

Looks like the NBA isn't down with a voluntary sale negotiated by Shelly Sterling.

NBA will still force sale of L.A. Clippers, rebuffs Sterlings' offer - CNN.com

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[Shaddim]

Yeah, that figures, they (the NBA) want to sell it to the people they feel are "worthy" (re. who's been kissing their asses). Nice, part of the motive for all this is finally seeing the light of day.

[Jawbone54]

Holy crap, this thread got boring for a while.

[Shaddim]

Yikes! Related?

Son of Clippers Owner Donald Sterling Found Dead | KTLA 5

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Errrrr.....that was last year?