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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Desktops > Pix of the NEW Power Mac G5 from updated G5 service manual.

Pix of the NEW Power Mac G5 from updated G5 service manual. (Page 2)
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djjava
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Jun 4, 2004, 05:27 PM
 
looks like a really nice place to put your keys...
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Jun 4, 2004, 05:28 PM
 
or maybe two more processors!!!
quad power baby!!1
     
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Jun 4, 2004, 07:04 PM
 
i hope some of the room is bays.
i look in your general direction
     
bradoesch
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Jun 4, 2004, 07:29 PM
 
Originally posted by MacGorilla:
In that space, they could put a deep frier....mmmmm....greasy fries
Fries? I certainly hope you meant poutine!!
     
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Jun 4, 2004, 09:24 PM
 
Finaly a place where I can hide my dirty magazines....


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Maelman
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Jun 4, 2004, 10:00 PM
 
They took down the images. Would anybody who got them be willing to post them here?
     
jmperez64
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Jun 4, 2004, 10:08 PM
 
liquid cooling system!
     
Squozen
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Jun 4, 2004, 10:48 PM
 
Dammit. I had the page open, but stupid Windows wouldn't let me save the image to disk because the original link was dead.
     
thetman
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Jun 4, 2004, 10:50 PM
 
someone must have them, please
     
ryju
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Jun 4, 2004, 10:54 PM
 
Wired has smaller images, but I'm way too lazy to be off linking webpages now.
     
Eug Wanker  (op)
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Jun 4, 2004, 11:42 PM
 
     
Detrius
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Jun 4, 2004, 11:43 PM
 
Originally posted by Socially Awkward Solo:
The "G5" is on the last plate of the heatsink
The "G5" is not on the last plate of the heatsink; it's a cover. There are two plastic latches on either side. Take this from the guy that has replaced a half a dozen G5 logic boards. It's a separate piece.

The logic board is not fun to replace on the G5s, by the way. That big metal divider bolts to the logic board and comes out with the logic board. The antenna cables run through clips on that. Getting them out is easy; getting them back in is not.
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Jun 4, 2004, 11:49 PM
 
While I don't doubt the pictures' validity, somethings not quite right...
Take a careful look at the middle picture of the "old" G5. The heatsink is WAY too shallow. Doesn't appear to extend the full depth of the case like a real G5 (or like the top image).
Hmm... Prototype vs. production model?
     
forkies
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Jun 5, 2004, 02:31 AM
 
Originally posted by Cadaver:
The heatsink is WAY too shallow.
I think it's just the angle + light reflecting, no?

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Drakino
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Jun 5, 2004, 03:33 AM
 
Since this machine is a desktop machine, space isn't as much of a concern. Thus, if you can put in a big heatsink, then you do so, to allow for big fans to cool it. Why? Big fans running at lower RPMs are much more quieter then a smaller fan+heatsink combination. Remember all the flack Apple saw with the later model G4 towers for noise? Well, the G5 design was built to remain quiet up into these faster clock speeds.

XServes are insanley loud compaired to the desktops due to the need for many tiny fans to blow through the 1 inch tall heatsink (my estimate, allocating the other .75 inches to case, motherboard, and CPU thickness).

Don't panic over the larger heatsink. It just means the newer G5 will possibly be even quieter then the old ones. After all, noone panicked over the G4 Cube heatsink when they realised it allowed for a fanless design...
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angelmb
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Jun 5, 2004, 05:18 AM
 
I have the large apple insider image, I can e-mail it, anyone?
Oh, I could put it here from my idisk, but does not seem a good idea
     
xe0
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Jun 5, 2004, 06:17 AM
 
AppleInsider image

there's the Appleinsider pic.

This to me looks like the PowerMac that was scheduled for release earlier this year- but due to the IBM fab problems obviously didn't eventuate. I think the WWDC PowerMacs will be the next Generation, and what we'll see at the up-comming WWDC will be very different to what this picture indicates.

edit: PowerMacMan, please ask before editing my post next time thanks

edit: xe0, please read the image guidelines before posting an image next time thanks
( Last edited by Lateralus; Jun 5, 2004 at 05:31 PM. )
     
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Jun 5, 2004, 06:35 AM
 
the big bow is for the water cooling
the enpty space it for the bottle

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.
.

no?...
     
gsxrboy
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Jun 5, 2004, 06:46 AM
 
Soo why does the first and second pic of the new g5" seem to have a different graphics card in each pic
     
Eug Wanker  (op)
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Jun 5, 2004, 09:14 AM
 
xe0, do you mind just putting a link? It screws up the forum formatting. Mind you if the others prefer it embedded I have no argument with that.

Some points:

1) I don't buy the liquid cooling arguments.
2) That thing is just a cover, not a heatsink. The heatsinks would be much smaller. Maybe it's larger because it's easier, or because it better directs airflow.
3) I don't buy the quad arguments (although that'd be nice ).
4) The 4 memory slots are probably for the low end model (I hope).
     
Orbit
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Jun 5, 2004, 09:45 AM
 
Originally posted by Maelman:
They took down the images. Would anybody who got them be willing to post them here?
no. stfu.
     
Eug Wanker  (op)
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Jun 5, 2004, 09:55 AM
 
Originally posted by Squozen:
Dammit. I had the page open, but stupid Windows wouldn't let me save the image to disk because the original link was dead.
All you have to do is drag the image to the desktop. Anyways I posted the pic. xe0 posted a bigger version too. (Look a few posts up from this one.)
     
Peter
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Jun 5, 2004, 12:25 PM
 
Originally posted by Orbit:
no. stfu.
whats your problem?
we don't have time to stop for gas
     
scottkleinberg
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Jun 5, 2004, 12:34 PM
 
Originally posted by bradoesch:
Fries? I certainly hope you meant poutine!!

No, Poutine is for Windows machine. Both are disgusting and slimy.
     
olePigeon
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Jun 5, 2004, 03:11 PM
 
Anyone see those brackets you can install in a G5 to add 2 or 3 more HDs? Maybe Apple's designing it to include that bracket as an BTO option.
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Jun 5, 2004, 05:39 PM
 
Originally posted by gsxrboy:
Soo why does the first and second pic of the new g5" seem to have a different graphics card in each pic
haha good question. The one in the middle pict looks almost exactly like the one in the 'old' g5, and the one in the top pict looks green

Maybe apple used some sort of chameleon finish on the boards!
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greenamp
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Jun 5, 2004, 06:17 PM
 
weeee, my very 1st post

My guess would be that the system in the picture is the low end single 1.8 or 2.0. The mainboard has been redesigned smaller, for one, to cut costs on that particular unit, possibly allowing it to be priced cheaper than the current single 1.6. The one big unified heatsink would be good marketing for the single cpu models, as unlike the current singles, it would not look wanting of that 2nd cpu.
     
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Jun 5, 2004, 10:50 PM
 
Originally posted by greenamp:
weeee, my very 1st post

My guess would be that the system in the picture is the low end single 1.8 or 2.0. The mainboard has been redesigned smaller, for one, to cut costs on that particular unit, possibly allowing it to be priced cheaper than the current single 1.6. The one big unified heatsink would be good marketing for the single cpu models, as unlike the current singles, it would not look wanting of that 2nd cpu.
Welcome to MacNN! And yeah, I think most of us can agree about lacking the dual cpu thing.... but I think the heatsinks are still present underneath
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Jun 6, 2004, 12:37 AM
 
Originally posted by forkies:
I think it's just the angle + light reflecting, no?
No. No way. Clearly, in the middle pic of the "old" G5, there is something not correct about the heatsink. Way, way too shallow.
     
reader50
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Jun 6, 2004, 02:09 AM
 
Originally posted by Cadaver:
No. No way. Clearly, in the middle pic of the "old" G5, there is something not correct about the heatsink. Way, way too shallow.
You're being fooled by the perspective, check the upper pic of the old G5 for reference.

The one CPU present is the upper one, with the lower CPU bay empty. The angle on the middle pic makes it look like the CPU is in the lower bay, and way too shallow, but it is in the upper bay and the correct depth.
     
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Jun 6, 2004, 02:58 AM
 
I just checked the Apple Online Store, and it "will be back within the hour." Regular maintenance work?
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Link
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Jun 6, 2004, 03:10 AM
 
Yeah... probably. It's kinda early in the morning for an update.

Updates usually take the US store down around 5-6am PST.
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Cadaver
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Jun 6, 2004, 08:37 AM
 
Originally posted by reader50:
You're being fooled by the perspective, check the upper pic of the old G5 for reference.

The one CPU present is the upper one, with the lower CPU bay empty. The angle on the middle pic makes it look like the CPU is in the lower bay, and way too shallow, but it is in the upper bay and the correct depth.
Perhaps. Hard to tell with the smallish pictures, and the originals on AppleInsider have been taken down.
     
Eug Wanker  (op)
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Jun 6, 2004, 10:55 AM
 
Originally posted by Cadaver:
Perhaps. Hard to tell with the smallish pictures, and the originals on AppleInsider have been taken down.
xe0's mirror of the bigger version of the pic
     
Xaositect
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Jun 6, 2004, 11:47 AM
 
Looking at the pictures in the original document, it looke like a smaller logicboard put in the same case (thus the wasted space), and a larger heatsink on the processor. There are pictures of another open unit with two heatsink caps that look different than the current model in the manual, as well as these that have been bandied about.

As the specs for the unit have the single processor model running 5 or so degrees higher temp than the duals (yeah, more processor in the dual, but also more fan), they may have put a larger heatsink on the single to bring it down to the same range.

As to color of print for the serial number, I have a current G5 in for a video card replacement with white letters, and did a logicboard replacement in a unit with black letters last week. I think the color of print changed around the time they changed the screws that hold the processors from phillips to torx, but I really haven't paid that much attention to it, so I may be wrong on the timing.

Anyway, the key thing to remember is that this means new G5s soon. A revised logic board and a nice speed bump are pretty much assured, anything else updated we will find out when they are announced (and that leaves us a little suprise).
     
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Jun 6, 2004, 03:38 PM
 
With people expecting a G5 iMac soon, maybe Apple is offering Duals across the line for powermacs? Hence the unified heatsink? Or maybe it's just a re-done cover....
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Zoom
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Jun 6, 2004, 08:12 PM
 
Originally posted by CIA:
With people expecting a G5 iMac soon, maybe Apple is offering Duals across the line for powermacs? Hence the unified heatsink? Or maybe it's just a re-done cover....
That's actually an interesting hypothesis. I like it. Maybe Powermacs will be dual across the board now and that will be one of the key differentiators between the consumer and pro models.

Honestly, I would buy a G5 iMac if it has some basic expandability, but I think that's probably not going to happen with the iMac. I think it's likely to be the Cube mentality: small footprint, quiet, an expandable via Firewire (ie, external stuff). I would consider an iMac G5 with a 20" cinema screen and then I would just plan to upgrade a little sooner.

Anyway, this theory makes some sense. I just wish they'd find some way to stagger the dual CPUs instead of stack them. All that wasted space just rubs salt in the wound for the people dying for extra drive space (like me). If I'm going to buy a pro tower, I expect no less than two optical bays and space for four HD's. I would actually expect 4 PCI slots, too, but with all the built-in ports on a PM, three is okay.

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Simon
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Jun 7, 2004, 02:48 AM
 
Originally posted by CIA:
With people expecting a G5 iMac soon, maybe Apple is offering Duals across the line for powermacs? Hence the unified heatsink? Or maybe it's just a re-done cover....
Yes, sounds very reasonable. I have been suggesting such a line-up for quite some time now: dual G5 PowerMacs and single G5 iMacs. That would differentiate the two lines in terms of expandability, price and power enough so that the iMac wouldn't have to be crippled as much as recently.
     
Simon
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Jun 7, 2004, 02:52 AM
 
Originally posted by Zoom:
All that wasted space just rubs salt in the wound for the people dying for extra drive space (like me). If I'm going to buy a pro tower, I expect no less than two optical bays and space for four HD's. I would actually expect 4 PCI slots, too, but with all the built-in ports on a PM, three is okay.
I don't quite see why everybody is referring to "waisted space".

Even if the space stays as empty as these pictures suggest people will be able to put three HDDs in there immediately. There are already third-party solutions for the current G5s that do this.

There is this solution (picture) called G5Jam from Wiebetch and this one (picture) called SwiftData from TransItnl.

The space seen in Apple's leaked pictures will make such solutions even simpler and let those people install 5 drives that really need to. For everybody else the machine doesn't cost more than it has to.
( Last edited by Simon; Jun 7, 2004 at 03:02 AM. )
     
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Jun 7, 2004, 03:41 AM
 
^ Nein.. the lack of extra fans means a hotter machine.

Then again we don't yet know if the heatsinks were really SHRUNK or the form factor changed (they might be copper now, for instance), so that the fans are under the shroud.
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Zoom
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Jun 7, 2004, 12:30 PM
 
Originally posted by Simon:
I don't quite see why everybody is referring to "waisted space".
By that logic, Apple should double the size of the unit to allow for lots of third party solutions to add other things inside the case.

Seriously, though, the point is that there should be no empty space in a tower when it's lacking in expansion options. That space could and should be used for a second optical bay and/or additional HD slots. Or the entire case should be smaller.

It's easy to make something look clean and pretty when you're free to waste space. The challenge is making it clean and pretty when it's cramped.

So, for comparison's sake, let's compare the PC I have sitting next to me right now (at work) and the G5.

PC:
- 3 optical bays
- 1 zip/floppy bay
- 6 PCI slots
- 1 AGP slot
- dimensions: 7.25W x 17H x 16.5D
- total volume: 2033 cubic inches
- cost: $900

PM G5:
- 1 optical bay
- 3 PCI slots
- 1 AGP slot
- dimensions: 8.1W x 20.1H x 18.7D (from EveryMac)
- total volume: 3045 cubic inches
- cost: $1800 (low end)

Now explain to me how the PM G5 is not wasting space. How do you justify that?
     
videian28
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Jun 7, 2004, 12:56 PM
 
simple Zoom

first, the pci slots in the mac are PCI-X twice as fast as the ones in the PC, so that's like 6 slots

second, the 3 optical bays...um...the superdrive is a multiformat drive who needs 3? (and it has super in the name..duh)

3rd, zip/floppy drive? that media format is DEAD...we must now use USB 2.0 thumb drives (that transfer a WHOLE lost slower than if we were using on a PC)

whats my point?

hell I dunno, I am going to be buying the midrange G5...cause it's dead sexy (can't be that sexy and be as functional now can we?)
     
Zoom
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Jun 7, 2004, 01:13 PM
 
It's not an Apples-to-Apples comparison (pun intended) and it's not really meant to be. Macs have built-in Ethernet and modem ports, which eliminates the need for two of the PCI slots on my PC. Yeah, you don't need the floppy slot, but you could put front-mounted USB/FW ports there with a cheap adapter. Also much of the total volume on the PM is due to the handles.

But I don't think most people, even pros, have use for the handles - I think people would much rather have a smaller case and/or extra space for added drives. How often to people move their PMs?? And when they do, how much value is there in having built-in handles? I'd MUCH rather have a shorter case and an extra optical bay and I would have to bet that most other people would, too.

Anyway, this difference in overall volume is just too much. The PM takes up 50% more space than a PC with more expansion possibilities. I don't know how anyone can defend that.

And yet, I too will be buying a PM sometime in July. Despite all these issues I have, I still prefer Macs to PCs. I just wish we could have some basic expansion capability equity.
     
superfula
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Jun 7, 2004, 05:44 PM
 
Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Remember that the G5 memory deal, the G5 Cinema Display deal, the G5 .Mac deal, the G5 HP printer deal, and the G5 Director MX deal all end on the 26th.

Thus, no G5 announcement next week.
The deals don't mean Apple won't update the Powermacs this week.
     
Eug Wanker  (op)
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Jun 7, 2004, 06:04 PM
 
Originally posted by superfula:
The deals don't mean Apple won't update the Powermacs this week.
Well ThinkSecret agrees with you: 2.6 GHz!
     
BrunoBruin
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Jun 7, 2004, 08:15 PM
 
I'll again trot out my theory that sub-3GHz Power Macs now does not mean we won't see anything else for six months. There's nothing to stop Apple from just adding a high-end, 3GHz uberMac to the lineup later if they want to. As long as the current machines keep their pricing and the 3GHz model comes in above the "old" top end, they can justify it as an addition to the line that doesn't devalue the old machines.

Or think outside the grid. Steve said Apple would be at 3GHz. He didn't say 3GHz chips would be in the Power Mac line. So they don't call it a Power Mac; they make it a whole new workstation model.

The point is, why insist on trying to predict Apple's moves based on what they have done in the past, when Steve loves to do the unexpected and surprise us?
     
Link
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Jun 7, 2004, 08:19 PM
 
Originally posted by Zoom:
Also much of the total volume on the PM is due to the handles.

But I don't think most people, even pros, have use for the handles - I think people would much rather have a smaller case and/or extra space for added drives.
Getting rid of the handles on the powermac would be like taking the flip-up lights off the corvette (except that the new corvettes don't have the flip-ups)...

I still agree it's absolutely absurd that the G5 case seems to be SO full of empty space in those picts. Maybe they're planning to revise the powermac case too but hadn't gotten done with FCC testing when they posted that and the differences were so small it wouldn't matter in the manual.
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Eug Wanker  (op)
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Jun 8, 2004, 10:54 AM
 
Well, today was a bust.
     
Zoom
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Jun 8, 2004, 11:23 AM
 
Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Well, today was a bust.
Giving up a little quickly, aren't you Eug? It's not even noon, Pacific time.
     
Eug Wanker  (op)
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Jun 8, 2004, 11:39 AM
 
Originally posted by Zoom:
Giving up a little quickly, aren't you Eug? It's not even noon, Pacific time.
Well, usually, the store updates are before 10 am Pacific time IIRC.

Then again, Airport Express came out around this time yesterday.

BTW, OT but after a full day up, the http://www.apple.com/airport/ page is still fubared in Windows IE 6.

     
 
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