[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Not hate. Strongly encourages against.

Considering many versions of the bible say to kill gays I think that falls under hate.

[mac-at-kearsarge]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Considering many versions of the bible say to kill gays I think that falls under hate.

Not nessacarily...Remember 'Of Mice and Men'? When George had to Kill Lennie, it wasn't out of hate, it was out of love.


However in the context of homosexuality, it's my personal feeling that if God wanted to take life away from non hetero's (s)he would do it to save the non heteros (from pain and wrongful persacusion) from those who want to hurt them because of prejudice and misunderastanding.

[Rumor]

This thread has now been

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Graviton 

In all seriousness, spontaneous aural and visual hallucinations are really quite common. The human body is a fallible thing. Healthy 'normal' people can produce all manner of odd neurological quirks at any time during the day or night, even more so if they are stressed.

I actually have hallucinogenic sleep paralysis, so I've seen, heard and physically felt things (as clear and vivid as anything in normal life) that actually were not there. When I was a kid it really used to freak me out. I didn't know what it was until I was in my 20's and I saw a documentary on it and yelled "That's what I have!". It's just my natural brain chemistry misfiring on the onset or offset of sleep. Unfortunately, with hallucinogenic sleep paralysis the experiences are never pleasant, they are always quite unsettling.

This is why I don't discount people's experiences. I'm sure they are very 'real', I just don't believe them to exist outside their minds. From alien abductions to chatting with Jesus over coffee, I think the natural explanation is much more likely than the elaborate supernatural one.

Still, just as long as they don't harm anybody because of it then it doesn't matter what people believe happened to them.

Stop ruining a good thread with all this seriousness!!

It's not like you'll convince the nutters that they are just hallucinating either

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Stop ruining a good thread with all this seriousness!!

It's not like you'll convince the nutters that they are just hallucinating either

I appreciate that.

[Dork.]

[Graviton]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Stop ruining a good thread with all this seriousness!!

It's not like you'll convince the nutters that they are just hallucinating either

Fair enough.

Here's God! lookit!

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

The first thing I want to know is what does God look like? We've seen depictions of Jesus as a dude with brown hair and a beard, but how come there is no biblical reference to what God looks like? Does he also have a beard? Maybe a hat?

Per Christian doctrine, Jesus is God. Jesus is "the Word" and "The Word" was with God from the beginning. God is manifest through Jesus as part of the "new covenant" of the ultimate blood sacrifice for sin. Judaism held strictly to the necessity of blood sacrifice for sin. Per Christian doctrine, God authored a new Covenant starting with the ultimate sacrifice. Himself as man.
Pre-ascension;
"He had no form or comeliness that we should look at Him, and no beauty that we should desire Him. He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces He was despised, and we esteemed Him not" (Isaiah 53:2-3)

Post-ascension image depicting God;
"Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden girdle round His breast; His head and His hair were white as white wool, white as snow; His eyes were like a flame of fire, His feet were like burnished bronze, refined as in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters; in His right hand He held seven stars, from His mouth issued a sharp two-edged sword, and His face was like the sun shining in full strength. When I saw Him, I fell at His feet as though dead. But He laid His right hand upon me, saying, "Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the Living One; I died, and behold I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades." (Revelation 1:12-18)

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

God's spirit is not a separate force or being.

God has always been One. Humans must differentiate what is God for understanding.

Let me pose the following question to you: Throughout the Hebrew Scriptures, God tells humanity that He is ONE...

Interesting. IMO, you're applying a rigid interpretation of Scripture here. Genesis 1:26; "Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness..."

that there are no other gods and that aside from Him there is no savior.

I'm curious where Christian doctrine claims a savior other than God.

The unity of God is expressed over and over again, in a myriad of ways. What makes you think that after thousands of years of saying he was ONE and ONLY, He would contradict - nay, contravene - His eternal word, change His mind and split Himself into three?

There is nothing in Christian doctrine that contradicts nor contravenes God's claimed nature. The word "trinity" is nowhere to be found in the Scriptures.

And send Himself in a finite, human form to be abused and killed by heathen? Does ANY of that sound to you like what the explicitly singular Mighty God of the Hebrew Scriptures would choose to do?

Absolutely. Since the first days of man, upon first sin blood was caste to clothe them. Blood had always been an integral part of what Christians refer to as "coverage" understood as such through the history of Judaism.

Consider these verses:

Exodus 20
I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, and of the land of slavery.  You shall have no other gods before Me.

Jesus is God.

Deuteronomy 4:11-12
You came near and stood at the foot of the mountain while it blazed with fire to the very heavens, with black clouds and deep darkness.  Then the Lord spoke to you out of the fire.  You heard the sound of words but saw no image; there was only a voice.

God breathed life, Jesus ("The Word") spoke salvation. It is still One God, multiple natures. Again, the word "trinity" is not to be found in Scripture.

Deuteronomy 4:35
You are the ones who have been shown, so that you will know that God is the Supreme Being, and there is none other besides Him!

Per Christian doctrine, Jesus is God. I can understand why we may never come to agreement on this and to be honest with you I'm not certain it will matter to either doctrine. For example, it is clear that both Judaism and Christianity will look to the same Coming.

Deuteronomy 4:39
Know therefore today, and take it to your heart, that the Lord, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.

Christianity does not claim there is "another".

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear O Israel, the LORD is our God, the LORD is One.

... and He is One.

Deuteronomy 6:14
You shall not follow other gods, any of the gods of the peoples who surround you.

Jesus was not "another" God of the peoples who surrounded the subject. Jesus was persecuted and killed by the subject.

Deuteronomy 32:39
See, now, that I, I am He -- and no god is with Me . . . .

I am one person, but I am also a father, a brother, a son, and a husband. I also have a voice. There are five aspects to the one; me and I am human. Can God not be the aspects in multiple fashion to a limited human understanding? Can not God who is above and beyond the confines of "time" not be these things at once? If man can be five things in nature confined by time, Can God not also be multiple natures at once with a voice? (The Word)

I Samuel 2:2
There is none holy as the Lord.  There is none beside Thee; neither is there any Rock like our God.

... and there is no other Rock like our God indeed!

I Kings 8:27
For will God indeed dwell on the earth?  Behold the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain Thee; how much less this house that I have built?

Interesting. This passage seems to affirm that "anything is possible of God" right?

I Kings 8:60
So that all the nations of the earth may know that the Lord is God and that there is no other.

Christian doctrine suggests no other Lords and no other Gods.

II Kings 19:19
Now, O Lord our God, deliver us from his hand, so that all kingdoms on earth may know that You alone, O Lord, are God. (see also Psalm 113:5)

Per Christian doctrine and even given the nature of doubt today, this did not work. God's New Covenant with man ushered in a "New Agreement" based on the atonement of man's sin through ultimate sacrifice of God and I'd argue we're still in deliverance. Again, no suggestion of God's Oneness is refuted by Christian doctrine.

Isaiah 40:18
To whom then will you liken God?  To what likeness will you compare Him?
Isaiah 40:25
"To whom then will you liken Me, that I should be his equal?” says the Holy One.
Isaiah 42:8
I am the Lord, that is My name, and My glory will I not give to another, neither My praise to graven images!

There is nothing in the New Testament to necessitate "graven images". Again, Jesus is God.

Isaiah 43:10-11
“You are My witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He.  Before Me no god was formed, nor will there be one after Me.  I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”
Isaiah 44:6-8
This is what the Lord says, Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty, “I am the first and I am the last; apart from Me there is no God!  Who then is like Me?  Let him proclaim it.  Let him declare it and lay it out before Me . . . .  Do not tremble, do not be afraid.  Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago?  You are My witnesses.  Is there any God besides Me?  No, there is no other Rock; I know not one.”

Per Christian doctrine, Jesus and God are One. The word "trinity" is not found in the New Covenant.

Isaiah 44:24
Thus said the Lord, your Redeemer, the One who formed you from the womb, “I am the Lord Who makes everything, Who stretched forth the heavens alone, Who spread out the earth by Myself.”
Isaiah 45:5-6
I am the Lord, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God . . . .  I will strengthen you . . . in order that they know from the shining of the sun and from the west that there is no one besides Me; I am the Lord and there is no other!

... and I as a Christian agree.

Isaiah 45:21-22
. . . Who announced this from before, who declared it from the distant past?  Is it not I, the Lord, and there is no God apart from Me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but Me.  Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other!
Isaiah 46:5
To whom shall you liken Me and make Me equal and compare Me that we may be alike?
Isaiah 46:9
Remember the first things of old, that I am God and there is no other; I am God and there is none like Me.
Isaiah 48:11
. . . and My honor I will not give to another.
Hosea 13:4
I am the Lord your God, Who brought you out of Egypt.  You shall acknowledge no God but Me, no Savior except Me!
Joel 2:27
You shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and I am the Lord your God, there is no other; and My people shall never be ashamed.
Malachi 2:10
Have we not all one Father?  Has not one God created us?  Why should we betray, each one his brother, to profane the covenant of our forefathers?
Psalm 73:25
Whom have I in heaven but You?  The earth has nothing I desire besides You.

... a beautiful passage.

Psalm 81:8-9
Hear, O My people, and I will admonish you; O Israel, if you would listen to Me!  Let there be no strange god among you; nor shall you worship any foreign god.
Nehemiah 9:6
You alone are the Lord; You made the heavens, the heavens of the heavens and all their host, the earth and all that is upon it, the seas and all that is in them, and You give life to all, and the heavenly host bow down before You.
I Chronicles 17:20
O Lord, there is none like You, neither is there any God beside You, according to all that we have heard with our ears!

... and Christian doctrine changes none of this. Jesus is God. God is One.

Gen.49:10 The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs and the obedience of the nations is his.

Isa.9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the Lord Almighty will accomplish this.

Mic.5:2 But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from ancient times.

Isa.7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. What does the name Immanuel mean Big Mac?

Zec.9:9 Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.

Isa.53:7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.

Isa.50:6 I offered my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard; I did not hide my face from mocking and spitting.

Ps 69:4 Those who hate me without reason outnumber the hairs of my head; many are my enemies without cause, those who seek to destroy me. I am forced to restore what I did not steal.

Ps.22:16 Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet.

Isa.53:12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
If God is the only savior and Jesus is not God, how then could just any man intercede for the transgressors? Why was His death necessary?

Isa.53:4-5 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.

Ps.68:18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.

Christians believe the OT is the New Testament concealed and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed. They believe Jesus was God as prophecied in the Old Testament and fulfilled in the New.

[Jawbone54]

eBuddy, are you espousing Oneness Doctrine?

Everything you've said appears to be exactly the doctrine that I've been raised in.

[Graviton]

The real holy trinity is in my sig.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Considering many versions of the bible say to kill gays I think that falls under hate.

Show me one version of the Holy Bible that says to kill gays with references. Because every Bible that I've seen sure never says anything about killing gays or anyone besides in time of war.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

eBuddy, are you espousing Oneness Doctrine?

Good question. While I'd rather refer to it as simply Biblical doctrine, I agree with the basic Wikipedia summary. While crude it is wikixpedient.

I attend a non-denominational Church and am not formally a Pentecostal.

Everything you've said appears to be exactly the doctrine that I've been raised in.

Do you take issue with it? Usually, the word "espousing" has negative connotation.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

Good question. While I'd rather refer to it as simply Biblical doctrine, I agree with the basic Wikipedia summary. While crude it is wikixpedient.

I attend a non-denominational Church and am not formally a Pentecostal.

I would agree that "Biblical doctrine" is more accurate, but for the sake of clarification I generally refer to it as "Oneness."

Do you take issue with it? Usually, the word "espousing" has negative connotation.

No, I agree fully. I've been raised to believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost were three manifestations, rather than separate beings or identities. I became an agnostic as a teenager, but eventually came back, studied, and am now in full agreement. I have an interesting resource that I'm going to share in this thread as soon as I can find it. I have it buried away in a pile of notes in my guest room.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

No, I agree fully. I've been raised to believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost were three manifestations, rather than separate beings or identities. I became an agnostic as a teenager, but eventually came back, studied, and am now in full agreement. I have an interesting resource that I'm going to share in this thread as soon as I can find it. I have it buried away in a pile of notes in my guest room.

Are you familiar with Chuck Missler? Dr. Ivan Panin? Once you dig into the original Hebrew, then the original Greek-some things become "extra-coincidental". Opened up entirely new ideals to me personally. Now I'm curious what you've got.

[besson3c]

This thread is really living up to its name so far! Lots of great pics, and a page of eBuddy's bible ratios...

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

This thread is really living up to its name so far! Lots of great pics, and a page of eBuddy's bible ratios...

Bible ratios...

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

Are you familiar with Chuck Norris?

Of course I am. Who isn't?

[Kevin]

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

This thread is really living up to its name so far! Lots of great pics, and a page of eBuddy's bible ratios...

Ha love it.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

I've always wondered what others look like. Let's start a pic thread. Here's mine;

Nice tat Rumor.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Show me one version of the Holy Bible that says to kill gays with references. Because every Bible that I've seen sure never says anything about killing gays or anyone besides in time of war.

You are wasting your time with that little one. It's not he has a problem with "hate". As he spreads enough hate in this forum to fill 10 bibles.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

Nice tat Rumor.

If that is an attempt at humor, you failed.

[Kevin]

I laughed.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Show me one version of the Holy Bible that says to kill gays with references. Because every Bible that I've seen sure never says anything about killing gays or anyone besides in time of war.

You must have the family friendly edition then. The bible is full of murder and mayhem.

Leviticus 20
10If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death. 11The man who lies with his father's wife has uncovered his father's nakedness; both of them shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. 12If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall be put to death; they have committed perversion, their blood is upon them. 13If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. 14If a man takes a wife and her mother also, it is depravity; they shall be burned to death, both he and they, that there may be no depravity among you. 15If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he shall be put to death; and you shall kill the animal. 16If a woman approaches any animal and has sexual relations with it, you shall kill the woman and the animal; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them.

[Kevin]

I think he was referring to the new testament. AKA After Christ. BTW such punishments were common practice at the time. Not just for the religious. The point of such a thing was so they couldn't spread their sins to others. (one rotten apple in the bag can turn the whole bag rotten..)

After Christ came, this no longer had any relevancy. And is really not a Christian teaching.

The Bible also talked about if your arm made you sin, to cut it off. That if your eyes made you sin, to gouge them out. That it was better to be without those, than to continue sinning.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

If that is an attempt at humor, you failed.

... I agree. It had about as much comedic value and relevance as posting the pic of Chuck Norris. That's why I did it. Why did you?

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

You must have the family friendly edition then. The bible is full of murder and mayhem.

I don't get why the animals should be killed when they're rape victims.

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

The Bible also talked about if your arm made you sin, to cut it off. That if your eyes made you sin, to gouge them out. That it was better to be without those, than to continue sinning.

How can your arm or eye make you sin? Isn't it the brain that should be removed?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Obi Wan's Ghost 

How can your arm or eye make you sin? Isn't it the brain that should be removed?

How can the brain make the eye do something if it doesn't exist?

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

How can the brain make the eye do something if it doesn't exist?

How does your eye or arm make a decision? Should the commandment be "If the thought of commiting a sin enters your mind, take a seat until the thought blows over" ?

[Graviton]

How many of you would stick to that premiss and cut off your penis if you had a 'sinful' sexual thought?

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Obi Wan's Ghost 

How can your arm or eye make you sin? Isn't it the brain that should be removed?

It is symbolic. Jesus was instructing people to remove things that cause sin. For example, if watching primetime TV shows make you lust for someone you are not married to, then you should not watch it. If you can't control yourself to not watch it, you should get rid of your TV.

See, Christians can see the metaphors in Jesus' teachings.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

It is symbolic. Jesus was instructing people to remove things that cause sin. For example, if watching primetime TV shows make you lust for someone you are not married to, then you should not watch it. If you can't control yourself to not watch it, you should get rid of your TV.

See, Christians can see the metaphors in Jesus' teachings.

Since Leviticus pre-dates Jesus, do you think that the passage in Leviticus 20:13 was meant to be taken literally or metaphorically?

And f you think those statements were meant to be taken metaphorically what is the metaphoric message to be gleaned from Leviticus 20:13?

[design219]

Uh, OH! Metaphors in the Bible...a slippery slope!

[besson3c]

The bible is like sweet and sour chicken on a summer day... Bitter and sour like a Manitoba blizzard of lost love, sweet like that cotton candy you get from the cotton candy guy, full of meat like a stroll down your local deli aisle, and a little fat like your uncle Carl.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

The bible is like sweet and sour chicken on a summer day... Bitter and sour like a Manitoba blizzard of lost love, sweet like that cotton candy you get from the cotton candy guy, full of meat like a stroll down your local deli aisle, and a little fat like your uncle Carl.

There's nothing quite like the joy you get from making fun of people's beliefs and mocking them is there. I think you protest too much.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy 

Since Leviticus pre-dates Jesus, do you think that the passage in Leviticus 20:13 was meant to be taken literally or metaphorically?

And f you think those statements were meant to be taken metaphorically what is the metaphoric message to be gleaned from Leviticus 20:13?

Not everything is a metaphor. Just because one verse is a metaphor doesn't mean everything is. The Bible is not a metaphor.

You don't understand the relationships between the OT and the NT. OT: Man attempted to reach the level of God. God showed how impossible that was with the creation of the Law, the 1st covenant. NT: God has set up a new covenant with man. Man only has to admit he cannot reach the level of God no matter how hard he tries. Many people still try.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Not everything is a metaphor. Just because one verse is a metaphor doesn't mean everything is. The Bible is not a metaphor.

Absolutely correct: The Bible is neither completely literal nor completely metaphoric. I don't believe I suggested, or even hinted, otherwise.
My question was about the specific interpretation of one passage from Leviticus. I'll repeat it here.

"Do you think that the passage in Leviticus 20:13 was meant to be taken literally or metaphorically?"

If you think it was meant to be taken metaphorically what do you think is the metaphoric message to be gleaned from Leviticus 20:13?

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy 

Absolutely correct: The Bible is neither completely literal nor completely metaphoric. I don't believe I suggested, or even hinted, otherwise.
My question was about the specific interpretation of one passage from Leviticus. I'll repeat it here.

"Do you think that the passage in Leviticus 20:13 was meant to be taken literally or metaphorically?"

If you think it was meant to be taken metaphorically what do you think is the metaphoric message to be gleaned from Leviticus 20:13?

Literally. Now ask why the Jews don't still follow the Law to the letter? Cause that's a question I'd like answered.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Not everything is a metaphor. Just because one verse is a metaphor doesn't mean everything is. The Bible is not a metaphor.

So you admit Christianity is a pick-and-choose religion?

[richwig83]

In religion, its the use of the word belief that puzzles me. Belief implies a doubt!!

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

So you admit Christianity is a pick-and-choose religion?

It's not.

If you believe that Jesus died for your sins and repent, you're a Christian.

If you don't believe that Jesus died for your sins and don't repent, you're not a Christian.

The only other rule (which doesn't define the faith) is "be excellent to each other". That's it. All the rest is down to personal conviction. Like, you buy a Ferrari you're a Ferrari owner. Whether you have tan, cream or black seats is up to you - doesn't make any difference to your status as a Ferrari owner.

[Doofy]

BTW, all those with red Ferraris with black seats are just wrong. Heretically wrong. And should be destroyed immediately.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

If you believe that Jesus died for your sins and repent, you're a Christian.

If you don't believe that Jesus died for your sins and don't repent, you're not a Christian.

The only other rule (which doesn't define the faith) is "be excellent to each other". That's it. All the rest is down to personal conviction. Like, you buy a Ferrari you're a Ferrari owner. Whether you have tan, cream or black seats is up to you - doesn't make any difference to your status as a Ferrari owner.

That pretty much defines pick and choose right there. Glad to see we are on the same side here Doofster.

[design219]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

If you don't believe that Jesus died for your sins and don't repent, you're not a Christian.

And I am going to hell, is that right?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

That pretty much defines pick and choose right there. Glad to see we are on the same side here Doofster.

No, no, no. You can't pick and choose the defining belief. Simply can't do it.

In other words, there's no play in the defining aspects of the religion itself - only in the associated culture which you choose to become part of.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by design219 

And I am going to hell, is that right?

I don't know. Are you?

[design219]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I don't know. Are you?

No, there is no hell.

But that is the foundation of Christianity, if you do not believe and accept Jesus as your savior, you are lost.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

No, no, no. You can't pick and choose the defining belief. Simply can't do it.

I'm not talking about the defining beliefs here. I get that part. I'm talking about all the details past that. Bible - literary or not? Which are allegories? Which are myths? Which are fables? Which are the correct interpretations? Which are the moral guidelines to stick with? Which are sins? Which are not?

Every Christian has to make choices about what to believe in. Whether they are personal choices or social memes put onto them, it's all about picking and choosing between a myriad of options. And that in turn detracts from the core beliefs.