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OreoCookie · Jun 5, 2016, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by subego

I probably will at some point, but I can declare your position reasonable without watching it.

Besides, the laws were are discussing in this thread use the sex at birth as the basis (“as written on the birth certificate), and the implications this has for persons for which that sex differs from the one that a person feels he or she belongs to. It doesn't really matter what CPT insists to call it.

subego · Jun 5, 2016, 10:16 PM

I was talking about the age at which one can get reassignment.

OreoCookie · Jun 6, 2016, 02:43 AM

Originally Posted by subego

I was talking about the age at which one can get reassignment.

Sorry, I missed that.

OAW · 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants

MacNN is parsing the url wrong.

Fair enough. My bad.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants

No, watch the segment of the above video I posted.

I did. And once again you are misrepresenting your own source.

If you want to be whatever you want to be … label it for what it is and don’t call it “transgender”. “Transgender” is literally the definition of transitioning from one to another. That’s it. I am not taking … you don’t take hormones to be androgynous. That irks me the umpteenth degree. “I don’t feel like a male or a female so I’m just going to be androgynous”. No that’s not the reason you put chemicals in your body. It’s not a game. It’s not a joke. It’s not for fun. It’s not to make a statement. It’s not to rage against the machine or trying to take the patriarchy or misogynists or feminists. It has nothing to do with that.

So this guy is taking issue with people who are "androgynous" using the term "transgender". It's akin to those who take exception to people who are "bisexual" calling themselves "gay". In any event, this has nothing whatsoever to do with what the term "transgender" means. In fact, he himself reiterates the definition of the word later on when he says ...

It’s either you are “trans” and you know it and you go through this whole thing because this is what makes you feel comfortable … or you are the person who started to transition and you realized it wasn’t for you and it was too late. That’s why they have those things in place. So I don’t think you can be “un-trans” I think you either are … it’s literally it’s black and it’s white. You are or you are not.

Which clearly corresponds to what the definition of the word is ...

Definition of transgender
: of, relating to, or being a person (as a transsexual or transvestite) who identifies with or expresses a gender identity that differs from the one which corresponds to the person's sex at birth

You either are ^^^^^ or you are not! And that is why you go through the "transition" of which he speaks. What other reason would there be? Because it's Tuesday? Are you seriously trying to sit here and argue that a person who takes all these hormones or undergoes gender reassignment surgery only becomes "transgender" AFTER they "transition"?

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants

I'm sick of your condescending shit, grow up.

Perhaps I should modify what I said earlier a touch ...

Originally Posted by OAW

Seriously dude. You are actually sitting here trying to argue about the freaking dictionary definition of a word! And when you are called out on that nonsense you try to switch gears and claim the latter was "co-opted" from the former by some sort of "progressive agenda" supported by nothing more than your routinely uninformed opinion and your misrepresentation of some random transgendered dude on YouTube. And then you wonder why?

andi*pandi · Jun 7, 2016, 02:23 PM

I will let my kid pierce their ears at 12, dye their hair any color, cut it any way they wish, but surgery no. 18. Even then, how many 18yr olds make stupid decisions...

Only case I can see surgery <18 being necessary is multiple organs, and then some say to wait and see which is dominant.

Cap'n Tightpants · Jun 7, 2016, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by OAW

I did. And once again you are misrepresenting your own source.

So this guy is taking issue with people who are "androgynous" using the term "transgender". It's akin to those who take exception to people who are "bisexual" calling themselves "gay". In any event, this has nothing whatsoever to do with what the term "transgender" means. In fact, he himself reiterates the definition of the word later on when he says ...

Says the guy who says I'm misrepresenting the source.

Androgyny came up due to his issues with people referring to transitioned people as "trans". You completely dodged his point that people should only take these drugs to be either male or female, not to be in some strange middle stage. Because it ****s you up mentally and emotionally.

"Trans literally means transitioning from male to female, or female to male."

I'd think you were being purposely deceitful, but I've come to realize that it's something much more fundamental.

You either are ^^^^^ or you are not! And that is why you go through the "transition" of which he speaks. What other reason would there be? Because it's Tuesday? Are you seriously trying to sit here and argue that a person who takes all these hormones or undergoes gender reassignment surgery only becomes "transgender" AFTER they "transition"?

"Trans literally means transitioning* from male to female, or female to male."

[*His emphasis.]

Seriously, WTF? The way you take in information is screwed, there's some filter in your head that only allows you to hear what fits your ideology's agenda.

Cap'n Tightpants · Jun 7, 2016, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

I will let my kid pierce their ears at 12, dye their hair any color, cut it any way they wish, but surgery no. 18. Even then, how many 18yr olds make stupid decisions...

Only case I can see surgery <18 being necessary is multiple organs, and then some say to wait and see which is dominant.

My daughter already wants to dye her hair blue and get a nose ring... at 4.

We have too many weirdos visiting.

OAW · 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants

Says the guy who says I'm misrepresenting the source.

Androgyny came up due to his issues with people referring to transitioned people as "trans". You completely dodged his point that people should only take these drugs to be either male or female, not to be in some strange middle stage. Because it ****s you up mentally and emotionally.

I'm not "dodging" anything. Because the discussion at hand here has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with "androgyny"! The only one who introduced that into the conversation is YOU as some sort of ridiculous "rebuttal" to a discussion about the dictionary definition of the word "transgender". Name ONE PERSON in this thread who has made the assertion that "transgender" is an appropriate term for someone who identifies with "androgyny"! I'll wait.

.
.
.

You know what. Let me help you out with that ...

Originally Posted by subego

Transgendered: the gender in your head doesn't match the parts you were born with.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

No, it doesn't, not even by the sources the you put into evidence. You linked to a wikipedia page on transitioning, not on transgender. But we are talking about transgender people, and the page on transgender actually says exactly what we are claiming (it's the first sentence):

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Transgender people are people who experience a mismatch between their gender identity, or gender expression, and their assigned sex[.]

Originally Posted by OAW

And as usual when presented with facts to the contrary CTP just insists that he's right anyway. With nothing more to back it up other than because he said so.

But let's consult Merriam-Webster shall we?

Definition of cisgender
: of, relating to, or being a person whose gender identity corresponds with the sex the person had or was identified as having at birth

Definition of transgender
: of, relating to, or being a person (as a transsexual or transvestite) who identifies with or expresses a gender identity that differs from the one which corresponds to the person's sex at birth

But everybody is tripping except you huh? OAW, subego, OreoCookie. Even the freaking dictionary itself is apparently just wrong. Because our Resident Forum Internet Expert has spoken.

Now again ... did ANYONE say ANYTHING about "androgyny"? NO! So why would you post a video with a guy who takes issue with people who are "androgynous" using the term "transgender" to describe themselves? Why would you post the definition of the word "transitioning" as some sort of "rebuttal" in a discussion about the meaning of the word "transgender"? What is it in the deepest, darkest recesses of your psyche that makes it so UNTHINKABLE for you to ever admit when you are just unequivocally, incontrovertibly, the-evidence-is-staring-you-in-the-face-like-2+2=4 WRONG?

I mean seriously. What is it that possesses you to engage in this type of utter nonsense? First you make this claim ...

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants

No it isn't right, trans means they're in the act of transitioning. A great many people have that wrong, even people who have transitioned (see above wikipedia article).

.... and then you turn around and post a video to support your position that actually says this at the very beginning!?

Lady: He is a "trans-man". Want to talk about that part?

Derrick: Yeah I have a little .. I have some kind of credibility about that. I have some "street cred". I guess. Yeah I can kind of .. it's not just a "cisgendered" woman ranting and raving about things she knows nothing about.

Lady: Back when we were friends ... it was before your transition ... and you were my only girlfriend. Do you remember that?

Derrick: I do.

Lady: And it just so happens that you were always a male inside. No wonder we got along so well.

Derrick: Kinda makes a lot of sense doesn't it?

Are you so obtuse ... deliberately or otherwise ... that you can't see that Derrick who is no longer "in the act" of transitioning still identifies as a "trans-man"? Because according to your assertion now that he has already transitioned he would be one of those "great many people [who] have that wrong" when he identifies as "trans".

You are actually arguing with the dictionary. You are posting a video as "evidence" for your position that directly contradicts your fundamental assertion. You are taking one sentence in the video completely out of context of other things he said. OMG I just can't with you!

OAW

Chongo · Jun 7, 2016, 07:48 PM

Has anyone who has "transitioned" fathered or gave birth to a child?

subego · Jun 7, 2016, 08:14 PM

I'm sure there's a fully transitioned MtF who's had a turkey baster kid, but that's probably what you mean.

Chongo · Jun 7, 2016, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by subego

I'm sure there's a fully transitioned MtF who's had a turkey baster kid, but that's probably what you mean.

That would be physically impossible. No uterus/birth canal no baby momma. No gonads, no baby daddy

subego · Jun 7, 2016, 11:10 PM

That's why it would have to be turkey baster. With pre-transition baste. So, not really what you're talking about.

Cap'n Tightpants · Jun 8, 2016, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by OAW

I'm not "dodging" anything. Because the discussion at hand here has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with "androgyny"!

Exactly, so even bringing it up when it had nothing to do with the main point of his argument is stupid. You mentioned androgyny, you.. His point is, there are males and there are females, and trans people are those who are transitioning between one and the other.

You know what. Let me help you out with that ... blah, blah, blah...

Here, I'll help you, get some therapy.

Why you feel the need to warp the things people say is simply freakish, and either you realize that you're doing it, or, what's even more chilling, you have no ****ing idea you're doing it. It's like you're trying to play with people's minds and make them crazy. Get help, FFS.

Cap'n Tightpants · Jun 8, 2016, 01:14 AM

Honest to ****ing God, I believe some people are on such different wavelengths, and see from such different perspectives, there's no way they can ever see eye-to-eye. I guess that's how the Regressive Left* gained such a foothold in our society in the first place.

(and again, I'm not saying that all Leftists are Regressives. The Regressive (aka. authoritarian) Left is a specific group, like the Religious Right or the actual Progressive Left (though the latter seems to be shrinking by the day, which is a substantial loss).

Chongo · Jun 8, 2016, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by subego

That's why it would have to be turkey baster. With pre-transition baste. So, not really what you're talking about.

Correct. No one who has had their reproductive organs removed to "transition" has produced offspring post transition. Tula, the "Bond Girl" has never birthed a child.

OAW · Jun 8, 2016, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants

Exactly, so even bringing it up when it had nothing to do with the main point of his argument is stupid. You mentioned androgyny, you.. His point is, there are males and there are females, and trans people are those who are transitioning between one and the other.

Does the concept of context simply elude you? Because the very next thing he said after the one sentence you are obsessed with provided it. And THAT was his "main point". I posted a quote of what he actually said in context. And it PROVES that what you are claiming was his "main point" is NOT what he said.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants

Here, I'll help you, get some therapy.

Why you feel the need to warp the things people say is simply freakish, and either you realize that you're doing it, or, what's even more chilling, you have no ****ing idea you're doing it. It's like you're trying to play with people's minds and make them crazy. Get help, FFS.

And you can level all the insults you want. That's no skin off my back. But what you WON'T do is actually counter my points. Because you CAN'T. And it would be too much like right to simply admit that you are in error. So instead you resort to this kind of silliness. Like claiming I'm "warping" things. Again I posted a quote straight out of your own sources mouth verbatim that DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS the pure, unadulterated BS you are talking. So no one is trying to "play with your mind" or "make you crazy". But if that's your reaction when presented with FACTS, EVIDENCE and basic READING COMPREHENSION well then that speaks volumes about YOU now doesn't it?.

OAW

Cap'n Tightpants · Jun 8, 2016, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by OAW

Does the concept of context simply elude you? Because the very next thing he said after the one sentence you are obsessed with provided it. And THAT was his "main point". I posted a quote of what he actually said in context. And it PROVES that what you are claiming was his "main point" is NOT what he said.

It does, which is why I'm bewildered that you're missing the point of the whole ****ing discussion they were having, but I've grown accustomed to that with you.

And you can level all the insults you want.

What insults? You need help.

But what you WON'T do is actually counter my points. Because you CAN'T. And it would be too much like right to simply admit that you are in error. So instead you resort to this kind of silliness. Like claiming I'm "warping" things. Again I posted a quote straight out of your own sources mouth verbatim that DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS the pure, unadulterated BS you are talking. So no one is trying to "play with your mind" or "make you crazy". But if that's your reaction when presented with FACTS, EVIDENCE and basic READING COMPREHENSION well then that speaks volumes about YOU now doesn't it?.

I can't counter them, no one can, because you fabricate shit and take everything out of context, except when you're making things up from whole cloth. It's okay though, at least now I know you're simply nuts, you aren't purposely trying to mess with people.

OAW · 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants

It does, which is why I'm bewildered that you're missing the point of the whole ****ing discussion they were having, but I've grown accustomed to that with you.

The point of the discussion was that the guy took issue with "androgynous" people using the term "transgender". I posted the quote verbatim. It's right there in black and white. What he was NOT saying was this nonsense ....

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants

No it isn't right, trans means they're in the act of transitioning. A great many people have that wrong, even people who have transitioned (see above wikipedia article).

Because I also posted verbatim ... in black and white ... where he identified as "trans" (i.e. "transgendered") even though he himself was no longer "in the act of transitioning". Jeez man can you READ?

That is what this entire "debate" is about! It's what OAW, subego, and OreoCookie have ALL been trying to get across to you. This nonsensical notion you have that "transgendered" = "transitioning". But I'll tell you what. Since you think you know better why don't you take it up with Merriam-Webster and let them know they got it all wrong?

OAW

Chongo · Jun 8, 2016, 11:45 AM

For the love of....
Richard Simmons Sex Swap Shocker: Fitness Guru Is A Woman Now! | National Enquirer

Can a fitness guru be the ESPY Courage award winner?

Cap'n Tightpants · Jun 8, 2016, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by OAW

The point of the discussion was that the guy took issue with "androgynous" people using the term "transgender". I posted the quote verbatim. It's right there in black and white. What he was NOT saying was this nonsense ....

Hey, I get it, you can only see what your ideology allows. It took me a while to understand that, but I do now. I don't blame you, I blame the system that's brainwashed you and indoctrinated you into the Regressive cult. He very plainly states that "Trans" is Transitioning and that people ignorantly misuse the term.

Directly from the video:

"Trans literally means transitioning, from male to female, or female to male."

As he points out later, there is no "Trans" gender, there are only 2, there have only ever been 2, and Trans is the term representing people who are transitioning from one to the other. It's perfectly logical, it makes sense, but I see why you won't accept that.

Cap'n Tightpants · Jun 8, 2016, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Chongo

For the love of....
Richard Simmons Sex Swap Shocker: Fitness Guru Is A Woman Now! | National Enquirer

Can a fitness guru be the ESPY Courage award winner?

He wants his own show now.

Seriously, I'm surprised it took this long for Simmons, he should have done that decades ago.

subego · Jun 8, 2016, 02:25 PM

If this is true, I much prefer her to Jenner.

When I was growing up, Simmoms did a local kid's TV show. I was devastated if I missed it.

OAW · Jun 8, 2016, 02:46 PM

The National Enquirer? Seriously?

Richard Simmons Is Not Transitioning into a Woman, Says Rep: 'He Deserves His Privacy' - Health, Richard Simmons : People.com

OAW

subego · Jun 8, 2016, 02:49 PM

Thank god we have People to correct the record.

OAW · Jun 8, 2016, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by subego

Thank god we have People to correct the record.

IKR!

OAW

subego · Jun 8, 2016, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by subego

If this is true, I much prefer her to Jenner.

When I was growing up, Simmoms did a local kid's TV show. I was devastated if I missed it.

I just had a sudden bout of nostalgia, found a clip of the show, and realized it wasn't him, so he can go **** himself.

Not really, I like Dick, but I'm wondering how much of that is me thinking he hosted that show.

Chongo · Jun 8, 2016, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by OAW

The National Enquirer? Seriously?

Richard Simmons Is Not Transitioning into a Woman, Says Rep: 'He Deserves His Privacy' - Health, Richard Simmons : People.com

OAW

Most people will believe the Enquirer, unless Richard has a press conference to prove he isn't Fiona.

Cap'n Tightpants · Jun 9, 2016, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by subego

I just had a sudden bout of nostalgia, found a clip of the show, and realized it wasn't him, so he can go **** himself.

Not really, I like Dick, but I'm wondering how much of that is me thinking he hosted that show.

Chongo · Jun 13, 2016, 07:34 PM

The Final Dakar · Jun 16, 2016, 12:53 PM

Looks like women registering for the draft is in the latest military spending bill. Apparently a republican senator added the amendment as a troll not realizing democrats do believe in that level of equality. Oops.

Cap'n Tightpants · Jun 16, 2016, 01:08 PM

Not sure where you get the "trolling" thing, it was in committee for month with numerous advisors brought in to discuss the changes. It's the right thing and true equality demands it.

The Final Dakar · Jun 16, 2016, 01:17 PM

The guy who brought the amendment voted against it. He didn't expect it to succeed.

Cap'n Tightpants · Jun 16, 2016, 01:22 PM

If he didn't introduced it someone else would have, it's been a long time coming.

andi*pandi · Jun 16, 2016, 01:46 PM

equality: adding women to the draft, or better, removing the draft.

The Final Dakar · Jun 16, 2016, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants

If he didn't introduced it someone else would have, it's been a long time coming.

Sound logic for introducing an amendment you don't support. I can only imagine you're arguing out of boredom given the stakes here.

subego · Jun 16, 2016, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

equality: adding women to the draft, or better, removing the draft.

I forgot if somebody had a better argument from last time, but I argued it's not the worst idea to have the system in place for an emergency. Highly doubtful it would be for a war, but an unforeseen worldwide disaster isn't out of the question.

Cap'n Tightpants · Jun 16, 2016, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar

Sound logic for introducing an amendment you don't support. I can only imagine you're arguing out of boredom given the stakes here.

What stakes? This is necessary for complete gender equality. As I said, they'd been discussing this in committee for a really long time. That doesn't mean women will serve combat positions, where >99% can't physically met the requirements, but support positions are just as important.

The Final Dakar · Jun 17, 2016, 12:37 PM

I guess you're posting to see yourself, because that has nothing to do with the trolling comment that you felt so strongly to post about.

Cap'n Tightpants · Jun 18, 2016, 02:54 AM

He sponsored it to get a reaction, he wouldn't be the first to present a bill with no intent to vote for it, but given its popularity it would have been introduced to the floor during this session, anyway. I'm thrilled (and a whole lot of 3W feminists are shitting their knickers).