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TiUser · May 18, 2006, 05:00 PM

With the release of the MacBook line, it looks like a "portable" 12" MBP will not happen. I am on a Rev. C PB12 and would have to consider my next computer purchase around the MBs. The MBP15" is just too large for me to carry around. But the MBs don't seem to have enough video ram to run the pro apps. What would you do?

maxx9photo · May 18, 2006, 05:08 PM

I'm a rev B 12" PB user and I'm waiting my applecare runs out this november, till then I have time on what mu next purchase would be. Too many stories on the MBP for now (heat, etc) and that worries me.

Ulrich Kinbote · May 18, 2006, 05:16 PM

There isn't going to be a 12" version of the MacBook Pro?

ism · May 18, 2006, 05:23 PM

I'd think of it as the MacBook graphic's being on a par with the 12". So almost everything is better, the graphics capabilities just stay the same. So if you are happy with the graphics performance of the 12" now, then the MB will be about the same.

icruise · May 18, 2006, 08:09 PM

Yes, although I didn't really think I would want to do so, I'm halfway considering selling my 12" PowerBook (1.33ghz, 1.25GB RAM, superdrive) to get a MacBook. I don't like the fact that the MacBook is bigger and heavier than the 12" PowerBook, but I don't think the difference is that huge. The main attraction for me is the screen. I'd love a widescreen display and my PowerBook's screen seems very dim and low resolution in comparison to the MacBook's (admittedly, I've yet to see a MacBook in person). The extra speed is also welcome, as is the ability to run Windows, if only in Parallels.

I have an Intel iMac already should I need to play a game or something, so the graphics card doesn't bother me much. The MacBook would be mainly for Internet and Office use. Decisions decisions...

Of course, if there's any chance at all that Apple will deliver a true ultraportable, I wouldn't want to be stuck with the MacBook...

Macola · May 18, 2006, 10:06 PM

I have a rev A 12" PowerBook, although it's not my primary Mac. Like you and many others here, I was waiting for a true Pro replacement for the 12", but I don't think it's going to happen. Every time I tried out the 15" MBP, I just found it too bulky--even somewhat ugly in comparison to the 12" PB, if one can say that about an Apple-designed laptop. So I caved and ordered a MacBook. I'm pretty sure the integrated graphics card will still be better than my rev A PB.

iREZ · May 18, 2006, 10:42 PM

i would think the gpu would be fine for most pro apps, but i have to admit...i'm dissapointed in apple replacing the 12" powerbook with a ibook/powerbook hybrid. such is life i guess...12" powerbook, you will be missed.

hndsmman · May 18, 2006, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by TiUser

With the release of the MacBook line, it looks like a "portable" 12" MBP will not happen. I am on a Rev. C PB12 and would have to consider my next computer purchase around the MBs. The MBP15" is just too large for me to carry around. But the MBs don't seem to have enough video ram to run the pro apps. What would you do?

I also have the Rev.C PB 12". I'm finding that I don't need the portablility that much anymore, so I'm going to sell my 1337 PC and buy a 20" iMac to run all my pro apps. x1600>intel GMA.

NateEssex · May 18, 2006, 10:53 PM

I'm looking forward to hearing how the graphics hold up on games, both on the OS X and XP side. If someone gets a chance to check that out, please let us know.

kcmac · May 18, 2006, 10:53 PM

I have a rev A. We are getting my son a BlackmagicBook for college. So that is my vicarious fix. For the moment anyway...

My PB is my main work machine. I am still quite happy with it. I am very content to wait for Leopard to come out before my upgrade. And who knows, by then there may be a BlackmagicBook mini or maybe a BlackmagicBook with dedicated memory. Also, M$ Office and the Adobe apps will probably be binaries.

I can definitely wait but it is truly sad to not have a small form factor PRO machine. For the moment anyway...

Eug Wanker · May 18, 2006, 11:12 PM

Which pro apps do you want to run?

ericssonboi · May 18, 2006, 11:13 PM

So sad... I also have a Rev. C PB and i'm debating if i should go with a Black MB or just go with a lowend MBP. The price difference is $500 and basicly you pay for the dedicated graphics card and backlit keybaord.

Only advantage i see for the MB is the size and battery life. Everything else is pretty much the same. I'm also disappointed by the weight. It weighs nearly as much as the MBP yet its a 13"

wintermute1 · May 18, 2006, 11:19 PM

I already sold my 12 inch G4 for a macbook pro a while ago. The new macbooks sure are nice though!

icruise · May 18, 2006, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by ericssonboi

Only advantage i see for the MB is the size and battery life. Everything else is pretty much the same. I'm also disappointed by the weight. It weighs nearly as much as the MBP yet its a 13"

Funny, I was looking at it the exact opposite way. The MacBooks look a lot more attractive than the MBPs. I don't know what your needs are, but the base MacBook can really give the base MacBook Pro a run for its money, but it's almost half the price. Granted, you give up the SuperDrive and 20GB of hard disk space, not to mention the minor difference in speed. But even if you want to get the middle-of-the-line MacBook to make up for most of those features, the price difference is $700. That's pretty huge.

It's only when you look at the black version that it's close at all, and that's jut because you're paying $150 extra for the black case.

kcmac · May 18, 2006, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Which pro apps do you want to run?

I'm not talking about pro apps. I am talking about a machine I want for work. The new MB, while very nice and way better than my current PB is also much bigger. I travel a lot and this is just not easy to swallow from a size and weight issue. It is really the sticking point for me.

Second place is dedicated memory.

I purchased my current PB, even though it was the crippled stepchild of the PB clan because of its size, its keyboard, its ability to mirror (at that time) and its much more professional look than the iBook.

Apple has now merged the iBook and the small PB. I just have a feeling that they have something coming up to take care of the professional/professional business traveler.

If that coincides anytime around the release of Leopard I will be a very happy camper and ready to again buy a rev A machine.

Don't get me wrong. I am drooling over the MB. Specially the BlackmagicBook variety. But I can wait for awhile this time. I think.

azt33 · May 19, 2006, 04:54 AM

I am actually trying to sell my 12" Rev. C PB to finance a MB/MBP. I haven't really made up my mind which one to choose. I think Apple wants to us to see the Blackbook as the replacement of the 12" PB, as it differs from the other MBs, but spec-wise is basically the same. Too bad they did not put a dedicated graphics card in the BB, it would have made the difference more obvious.

About the decision between a MB and MBP, it is very difficult for me, as I definately need more screen-wise. The difference between the MB and MBP is small when you look at the specifications, but when you look at the price, you could almost buy two mid-end MBs for the price of one high-end MBP

Decisions, decisions...

thefunkymunky · May 19, 2006, 04:57 AM

Seeing as there arent going to be any more 12-inch PB. I am gonna keep my Rev. A. (was going to sell it since I have a MBP) as its a collectors item now.

Dr.Michael · 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by TiUser

But the MBs don't seem to have enough video ram to run the pro apps. What would you do?

If your 12 inch Powerbook does the job the MacBook might indeed not do it.
Have a look at the performance tests @ Macworld or the comparison of the MacMini @ barefeats. The integrated 64 MB graphics is superior for example to the 32 MB iBook graphics, but inferior to the 64 MB video cards.

Wait for the rev b MacBook. The 12 inch Powerbook is still a good machine. I will do the same (currently on a 64 MB VRam TiBook).

The best time to buy is anyway a few months before a new OS is released. You get the 10.4 licence with the machine and the 10.5 licence for 19$ a few weeks later.

ericssonboi · May 19, 2006, 05:37 AM

Originally Posted by Icruise

Funny, I was looking at it the exact opposite way. The MacBooks look a lot more attractive than the MBPs. I don't know what your needs are, but the base MacBook can really give the base MacBook Pro a run for its money, but it's almost half the price. Granted, you give up the SuperDrive and 20GB of hard disk space, not to mention the minor difference in speed. But even if you want to get the middle-of-the-line MacBook to make up for most of those features, the price difference is $700. That's pretty huge.

It's only when you look at the black version that it's close at all, and that's jut because you're paying $150 extra for the black case.

For the White model... it has pure advantage over the MBP in price..
But the look of the white MB still hasn't grown on me yet... and the only one that I like is the black MB.

its just too bad that the video card is intergrated.. i wouldn't mind if its was some low end dedicated card... just so the occassionaly gamer could use it.

icruise · May 19, 2006, 05:51 AM

Originally Posted by Dr.Michael

The best time to buy is anyway a few months before a new OS is released. You get the 10.4 licence with the machine and the 10.5 licence for 19$ a few weeks later.

Wouldn't the best time be after the new OS is released, seeing as you get it for free then?

Dr.Michael · May 19, 2006, 06:03 AM

Originally Posted by Icruise

Wouldn't the best time be after the new OS is released, seeing as you get it for free then?

That depends on the licences you have. If all came with a computer, you are right. But if you bought a full licence of Tiger for 130$, you are free to sell it.

Also a new released OS sometimes (

read: 'always') has problems and some apps don't work well. So it is good to have also the old license. You may not care if you use the powerbook at home. But for pro users this can become expensive. For me the new os is usually installed on an external drive until it is stablized.

TiUser · May 19, 2006, 06:32 AM

Thanks all, for your responses. The concern here is less the price than portability. I never quite understood why PBs (and now MBPs and MBs) are hierarchized based on screen sizes. I use my PB with 20" displays at work and at home, but when I travel, I want something that is both portable and yet powerful.

I think I will keep my Rev C. PB12" a while longer and wait either for the next version of the MB or maybe Apple will surprise us with something soon.

jmgriff · May 19, 2006, 08:27 AM

I'm keeping my Rev. C 12" PowerBook for now, at least until we see next revision MacBook and MacBook Pro, perhaps when Merom becomes available around August. Hopefully by then the whining, mooing, excessive heat/thermal goop issues will be resolved too. Also, IIRC there should be an updated Intel integrated graphics chipset (GMA965?) around that time that might offer better performance.

I don't think I'll hold my breath waiting for a *genuine* 12" PB replacement (because the black MacBook sure isn't it). Currently I use Final Cut Studio (mostly FCP and DVDSP) on my PowerBook (I'm not editing HD feature films or anything, but I do need to use it). It will be interesting to see reports of FCP running (or not) on a MacBook.

ism · May 19, 2006, 08:39 AM

I think FCP should run really well. It'll only be Motion that won't run well, and it doesn't exactly run great on the current 12" pbs.

Keep an eye on hdforindies.com, he'll be running FCP on a MacBook.

imitchellg5 · May 21, 2006, 12:27 PM

I am keeping my PowerBook and upgrading it.

gnomexp · May 21, 2006, 01:46 PM

I'm also sad about the lack of an ultraportable with a graphics card. However, I need my computer now as I start research in two weeks. I'm getting a 17in stock MacBook Pro and upgrading the RAM, along with an ACD, to replace my old original 12in PowerBook and 17in beige monitor. Even though I bike around campus and need portable, a good Brenthaven case does the trick.

I understand the heat concerns everyone has, especially the paste issue. I'm hoping that the larger case will mean less problems.

fisherKing · May 21, 2006, 03:10 PM

here too...keeping my revC 12" for now.
love this pb, love carrying it around.

i NEED more power (especially running logic & reason together); but am getting the job done.

worked on my GF's 15" powerbook last night; i love the backlit keyboard!

am hoping to see a macbook down the line that's:

smaller than the current one
pro spec'd
lighter
backlit keyboard...

ie a smaller mpb.

will not hold my breath, tho....

Cadaver · May 21, 2006, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by fisherKing

here too...keeping my revC 12" for now.
love this pb, love carrying it around.

i NEED more power (especially running logic & reason together); but am getting the job done.

A rev. C 12", upgraded with a fast & big hard drive (160GB 5200 RPM or 100GB 7200 RPM), maxed out RAM, a NewerTech high-capacity battery and a new, fast SuperDrive upgrade will really bring it up to date.

Then again, all that will cost at least half of a new MacBook.

I decided to go MacBook Pro (15") and replace both my 12" rev. C PBG4 and my G5 tower with it. So far, so good.

freakboy2 · May 22, 2006, 12:38 AM

i really think apple will end up with a <12 inch screen and machine. as for me, i like my 12 inch powerbook, and i'd be happy replacing it with either the mb or mbp. my wife has a 15inch mbp and she likes it, and after using it a little bit, i don't think lugging it around would be that much of a hassle.

i really like the mb size.. there are so many times i want more screen real estate on my 12inch.

Harry Schaefer · May 22, 2006, 02:13 AM

A couple of thoughts. I have both the 12" and 17". I use them differently. The 12' for some travel circumstances the 17" if I am going to be there for awhile. 12" on the lap in the living room the 17" largely a replacement for a desktop unit. I have a g5 but the 17" is my core computer. I note that older macs still operate current o/s even after many years. My PC's seem to obsolete after a few years and after 3 have trouble with current software and therfore lose functionality. Therefore I suggest you retain the 12' and not try to replace its functionality for awhile until a 13" will really do a high powered job. I think it is just a matter of time until that happens. Aside from graphics there isn't much distinction from the new17" they needed to keep some for the time being.I think the next evolution of the 17" will allow the 13" to grow up. Finally although the 17" looks big its weight is managable and I find the size less of an issue in travel for the power of a large landscape to work with. Harry

molala · May 22, 2006, 10:23 AM

I'm also keeping my RevC 12" PB for now. The temptation is there (mainly because the new one has a brighter and bigger screen and would be faster), but I really do like the portability of my current laptop and I would feel the weight and size increase. Besides, I've only had my PB for over a year and I try to let 3 years elapse before every upgrade.

ginoledesma · May 22, 2006, 03:24 PM

I just got a MacBook 13" to replace my Rev C which my sister is taking (nay, prying) from me. I'm not as bummed about the increase in weight as I am with the increase in width. The MB just looks so much wider than the 12" (making it look tiny).

Most of the people I know feel, as I do, that the keyboard is a downgrade. I did notice, however, that with the iSkin ProTouch PB (which I used to use on the PB12"), I dont' mind it as much. Most likely because my fingers "remember" the old touch and feel. The glossy screen isn't a bother in my working environment, and I like the brighter screen (compared to my PB which looks washed out).

My personal verdict: if there was a smaller MacBook available (at more or less same specs), I'd get one to replace the 13".

Eug Wanker · May 22, 2006, 04:39 PM

To me, the keyboard is crossgrade. Neither are particularly great. Both are just OK.

ApeInTheShell · May 22, 2006, 04:55 PM

The BlackMagicBook sounds like a good choice! But I don't think you'll find Apple shipping any of those soon.

analogika · May 22, 2006, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by Cadaver

A rev. C 12", upgraded with a fast & big hard drive (160GB 5200 RPM or 100GB 7200 RPM), maxed out RAM, a NewerTech high-capacity battery and a new, fast SuperDrive upgrade will really bring it up to date.

That still won't give him even near HALF the performance he'd be getting from the MacBook for audio applications.

kmarketing · May 22, 2006, 11:56 PM

Hi,

The new macbooks definitely look enticing, but just thought of having to get new software to really utilize it potential is having me hold off for now. I sold a few of my computers and was fortunate enough to make some money out of them. I'm just looking for something to hold me over at this point.

Just wondering what all of you though about this deal. I've been using the powerbook for a couple of days and it's seems pretty great so far.

It is a rev a. 867 12" powerbook in mint condition. It wasn't used for very much at all so there is no wear on it. The battery holds about a 3+ hour charge. It comes with bluetooth, 640mb, 40gb hard drive, airport extreme. I know it only has usb 1.1, but I don't even use usb 2.0 on our older desktop as it is, and I go with firewire most of the time. The price of the powerbook is $475. I also have an 80gb 5400 speed hard drive that I could put in.

I just really want an ultraportable to use on the road for internet, email, pictures, music, movies etc. I don't imagine anything hard core on the road, so it seems that almost anything would do. I've had ibooks before, but the truth is the powerbook just feels better put together and more professional.

What do you think, is this a deal that I should go for?
Thanks!

phantomo · May 23, 2006, 02:02 AM

I am keeping both machine personally. When I go to trips, I bring my 12" and if I need to do some serious work, I use the new 15.4".

I do carry around the MBP often as well and still getting use to the added weight(don't forget the heavier adapter).

Simon · May 23, 2006, 03:43 AM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

To me, the keyboard is crossgrade. Neither are particularly great. Both are just OK.

I disagree. The AlPB/MBP keyboards have one of the best notebook keyboards I have ever worked with. Apple set the bar quite high with these. I'm anxious to see if the MB keyboard can match it. Honestly, I have quite some doubt. But I always welcome pleasant surprises.

Maflynn · May 23, 2006, 07:51 AM

I'm one who "downgraded" from a 15" powerbook to a 2.0 GHz Macbook (white). Some of my reasons were that the case is more durable, the form factor fits my needs better and to be its faster then my PB (of course the PB is 3 yrs old so you'd expect the newer one to be quicker).

Because there's only one macbook model, I don't think your going to see a 12" or 13" Macbook Pro model. The specifications between the two models are so small a 12" MBP would certainly cannibalize Macbook sales. In some ways Apple should have done more to differentiate the two lines. Give the 15" MBP firewire 800, throw a few more bells and whistles into that but that's a post for a different thread.

To bad the black MB is painted, its really sharp looking but it does appear to scratch easily. then there's the increase cost just to get a slightly larger HD and the color.

Mike

Simon · May 23, 2006, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by Maflynn

To bad the black MB is painted, its really sharp looking but it does appear to scratch easily. then there's the increase cost just to get a slightly larger HD and the color.

From all I've heard, the BlackBook is made of black molded plastic and not painted.

molala · May 23, 2006, 04:36 PM

Just checked out the MB at the Apple Centre in London. The screen is really nice, the keyboard has a nice feel to it. And surprisingly, I didn't find it too heavy, the increase in screen real estate and brightness is worth the weight increase anyway. I'm wondering why these new models are so RAM-hungry though. The 2GHz white model with 512MB RAM was so slow, I haven't seen so many beachballs in a long time (I'm using a Rev C 12" PB with 768MB RAM, running 10.4.6). The black MacBook with 1GB RAM right beside it coped a lot better. And the plastic was resistant to my scratches.

icruise · May 23, 2006, 04:56 PM

The integrated graphics are probably the problem -- it steals 80MB from your total memory. And if you use any programs in Rosetta, it's even worse.

King Bob On The Cob · May 23, 2006, 07:08 PM

The gaming aspect of the Intel Integrated chip really stinks (even if you boot into windows, it won't run many games [Battlefield 2 and Quake 4 quickly come to mind, and the PB 12" still does better than the MB in Quake 3 and the other games based off it's engine]) So, if you plan on playing any games at all, don't upgrade to a MacBook. Only way to go is MBP. :-\