[thibaulthalpern]

Originally Posted by amazing 

Let's face it: The "Pro" in MBP is marketing speak. It's a device used to drive sales.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with "amateur" vs "pro."

Yeah, it is pretty much marketing speak. I mean, they're not going to sell much computers if they call their other line of computers "MacBook Amateur" *guffaw*

-or-

Would that be MacBook Pro Poseur? MacBook Pro Po?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

I agree, but let's not forget that Apple sometimes really is waaayyy ahead of everyone else.

Remember the original iMac, introduced 11 years ago w/o a floppy (*gasp*).
Well, you heard al those people whine, complain, belittle Apple for the decision.

It is possible that Apple once again took a look into the future.

That's all nice and probably true, but professional markets are quite conservative.

Consumer markets are driven by devices now aimed at a two-to-three-year lifespan.

Setting up a $300,000 recording operation needs to be a rather less short-lived affair, and that includes the necessity of being able to replace any component.

[EndlessMac]

Originally Posted by iampivot 

It's not hard to see that SD sticks easily stores more data than both CDROMs and DVDs, even double layer DVDs.

They do have the ability to hold more data but until the prices match DVDs per gig then it's not really a benefit to me. I use DVDs to send files to clients and also as an affordable redundant backup option. I can get a 100 pack of DVDs for about $30 so it comes out to about $0.06 per gig.

Right now memory cards are still too expensive to just give away to clients. They are great for temporary storage and then reuse but I don't consider them cheap enough to be use as a one time storage item.

Until prices for SD or any other memory card become as cheap as DVDs then I don't see optical drives going anywhere. The price of Blue Ray disc is what is keeping me from using them even though I would like a larger capacity storage per item so it's not like I have any loyalties to optical drives.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

I think this is a very good point.

5-10 years from now, who will still use physical media ?

* Audio CDs - nobody, all digital downloads
* DVDs - probably not, digital downloads or smaller memory media
* software CDs - again, probably not, digital downloads or smaller memory media

Spheric, it's like asking musicians 10 years ago if they could live w/o minidisk. The answer would have been no. Nevertheless, MD died. And so will CD and DVD.

-t

To be fair, any musician would have told you that they could have lived without minidisk. No one used them professionally. You couldn't even record in uncompressed PCM until 2004.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

To be fair, any musician would have told you that they could have lived without minidisk. No one used them professionally. You couldn't even record in uncompressed PCM until 2004.

That's not true, it just depended on what kind of musician you are, and what you wanted to achieve.

-t

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

That's not true, it just depended on what kind of musician you are, and what you wanted to achieve.

-t

Let me rephrase then, no recording professional seriously used the format.

[freudling]

I disagree with the fact that Apple is "looking into the future" with the SD card reader. Who wants to continue using media in the future anyway?

It's all about the web and the air. For example, I have clients telling me all the time that they want to send some DVD via courier, etc. I just point them to yousendit.com, and they can send their stuff that way. Much easier and reliable.

Then there is the air. Wifi is here to stay, and anyone wanting to transfer things should start looking to the air... and in the future, everything will be wireless...

Additionally, USB memory sticks do what everyone here states that SD cards are supposed to do. Why would Apple now add an SD card slot for file transfer purposes when USB memory sticks have been doing this job for years?

One reason I can think of is it is cleaner, since the memory stick does not stick out of the machine. The other reason is for photographers and the like to quickly swap in their media into the laptop, but they normally use CF?

So, this SD card slot thing just makes no sense to me.

[starman]

Um, nobody's going to be booting off the 'net anytime soon. No.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Let me rephrase then, no recording professional seriously used the format.

That I agree with. For performing musicians, MD was great.
Well, sort of like how performing musicians nowadays want EC slots.
Because recording musicians are very likely to have a Mac Pro anyways.

-t

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by starman 

Um, nobody's going to be booting off the 'net anytime soon. No.

Correct, plus there's always going to be those odd moments where you don't have internet access, or limited bandwidth. You always need to have some physical data media at your disposal.

-t

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

That I agree with. For performing musicians, MD was great.
Well, sort of like how performing musicians nowadays want EC slots.
Because recording musicians are very likely to have a Mac Pro anyways.

a) Performing musicians aren't the ones using EC slots. Sound engineers are.

b) If you're working at the level where MD players were sufficient, you'd NOT be in EC/Mac Pro territory.

c) Please don't confuse studio equipment with road gear. People who use a Mac Pro in the studio are fairly likely working at a level where they'd want a MacBook Pro with EC slot for the road.

[turtle777]

So, if I understand correctly, only sound engineers on the road would need EC.

Is there any reason why they couldn't use the 17", other than the higher price ?
It would seem to me that a sound engineer is maybe not as restricted in size of the laptop than a musician on stage would be.

-t

[Spheric Harlot]

They are subject to the exact same airline seats and carry-on formats as every other tour crew member.

In the end, people will use whatever tools are available to them for their work. If the only machine that allows them to do their job is the 17", then that's what they'll use.

Again: The people most in need of professional tools are the ones who don't have the time to argue about them on the web.

[SierraDragon]

I do not consider the "pro" in Macbook Pro to be just a marketing gimmick, and IMO loss of EC is a very bad thing. eSATA and other (important to pro users) EC connected-protocols are very necessary for many folks that perform professional work of various kinds in the field.

Apple should provide pro capability on their pro laptops. Adding SD is just a toy and already available via third party EC/34 cards. Another USB (talk about slow) port would be even sillier, even more low end. Personally I will always have at least 17" size so as long as the 17s remain EC-capable its all good with me.

-Allen Wicks

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Eug 

So, Class 6 SD is probably sufficient (minimum 6 MB/s, but often much higher), but does the Apple slot support Class 10?

Class ratings apply to cards, not readers. The reader in the MacBooks is USB, so figure the max transfer rate is 20-25MBps.

Originally Posted by starman 

Um, nobody's going to be booting off the 'net anytime soon. No.

I can't wait to PXE boot over cellular data!

[Brien]

I'm willing to bet even if Apple replaced the EC slot with an additional FW800 port and an eSATA port people would still be complaining.

[CharlesS]

Well, the extra FW800 port wouldn't do much for you since FW is daisy-chainable anyway.

[Brien]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Well, the extra FW800 port wouldn't do much for you since FW is daisy-chainable anyway.

It would if you wanted a second FW bus.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Class ratings apply to cards, not readers. The reader in the MacBooks is USB, so figure the max transfer rate is 20-25MBps.

You're right, but some readers are better than others. One would hope though that Apple's reader can max out the bus. 20 Mbps would be great.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Brien 

It would if you wanted a second FW bus.

Which you wouldn't get. Even when the MBPs had a FW800 and FW400 port, they were both on the same bus, which made the FW400 even more useless since using it would slow down the FW800 port.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Brien 

It would if you wanted a second FW bus.

When MacBooks had two ports, they shared the same bus.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Brien 

I'm willing to bet even if Apple replaced the EC slot with an additional FW800 port and an eSATA port people would still be complaining.

Sure they would. And rightly so.

EC offers that and more. Why take away something versatile and replace it with less? Why take away options and replace them with what to many is ballast? Options are good. SD is a toy.

[Brien]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Sure they would. And rightly so.

EC offers that and more. Why take away something versatile and replace it with less? Why take away options and replace them with what to many is ballast? Options are good. SD is a toy.

Surely it'd have been preferable to an SD slot though?

@CharlesS, can't we all just pretend I implied that Apple added a second FW bus along with the port? I know the old MBP's shared the bus between the two ports (and the slowdown it caused).

[calverson]

Vote

And people opinions on this thread may actually have some sort of backing behind them.

[P]

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

I do not consider the "pro" in Macbook Pro to be just a marketing gimmick, and IMO loss of EC is a very bad thing. eSATA and other (important to pro users) EC connected-protocols are very necessary for many folks that perform professional work of various kinds in the field.

Examples of "other EC-connected protocols" that are important to pro users? I don't say that they don't exist - in fact, I'm certain they DO exist, and my pet request to Apple is an EC slot on the iMac to build a market for such devices - but I'm getting insanely tired of eSATA being mentioned as the most important thing ever when there is no market to support that claim.

If the only thing anyone can mention using EC for is eSATA, Apple could much more easily add that port. They don't. My explanation for that is that their preferred way of working is to buy a laptop with a big enough HD that you fit your working set on it, and then use a slower external drive for backup or transfers to other machines or whatnot. That not your preferred way of working? Too bad. Apple works like this all the time - it's why there's no xMac. It's infuriating as hell on occasion, but it seems to be working for them.

My point here is this: If you want that EC slot back, you need to come up with a better argument than "I want eSATA", because that won't cut it. If you have audio interfaces that need it or you need FC connections on the road or something: fine. As long as it's something that you cannot (easily) access some other way, I think it might work. But you're hurting your argument if the only thing you mention is eSATA.

Personally, I want to use it for one of these.

[Spheric Harlot]

I've already posted this more than once in these various "Pro" book threads:

Magma Home Page

These guys build ExpressCard-connected PCI / PCI-X expansion chassis, and it's the ONLY way to get something like the ubiquitous UAD2 DSP card hooked up to a MacBook Pro - at least, it used to be possible.

[schalliol]

I'd really like to see a dock-type connection, which can be done through the slot, like Belkin has done for Windows. People have complained of a lack of such a slot (all Dells have docking connectors, etc.), and this slot is at least a non-BookEndz way to do that.

[webraider]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Umm, storage is what I was talking about.

Even if USB3 reaches 400 MB/s real-world throughput it still won't necessarily be the ideal bus for external storage. And eSATA might still be desirable. And if that's the situation we actually arrive at, I won't be the least bit surprised if Apple goes USB-only.

This is WHY they added Firewire 800 back! the Ideal Storage. Being able to boot off the SD card slot does have some advantages though. Especially for the Apple Technicians.

[schalliol]

For Apple Techs, I assume they'd just use a USB stick with something like ProToGo on it, since all Intels can be booted from USB. Otherwise, I think you could do the same with a EC SSD or memory adapter/card.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by webraider 

This is WHY they added Firewire 800 back! the Ideal Storage. Being able to boot off the SD card slot does have some advantages though. Especially for the Apple Technicians.

FW800 involves a bridge chip. That means additional cost and a performance hit. IOW it's not "ideal storage".

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Simon 

I'm really wondering if Laptop Hunters was more powerful than everybody thought. The economic situation was known to Apple long before LH and they had ample time to react but they didn't. Only now -- after LH -- we finally see them budge. I guess we'll never know what eventually made their blood pressure go up.

Well at least Apple legal seems to be making the same connection.

Originally Posted by Microsoft COO on Laptop Hunters

And you know why I know they're working? Because two weeks ago we got a call from the Apple legal department saying, hey -- this is a true story -- saying, "Hey, you need to stop running those ads, we lowered our prices." They took like $100 off or something. It was the greatest single phone call in the history that I've ever taken in business. (Applause.)

I did cartwheels down the hallway. At first I said, "Is this a joke? Who are you?" Not understanding what an opportunity. And so we're just going to keep running them and running them and running them.

This is coming from a MS executive, but still it made me laugh.

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/new...unters-ads.ars

[ApertureValue]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

just wondering. i have a digital camera, i plug it in to usb, and copy my pictures and videos to my macbook. simple.

so...what's the benefit of an sd slot? anyone?

I could have used another USB port, actually.

[0157988944]

Originally Posted by ApertureValue 

I could have used another USB port, actually.

this.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by adamfishercox 

this.

i SO agree...

[colourfastt]

Originally Posted by thibaulthalpern 

*LOL* This is so funny. I love your insight MacBook Semi-Pro...guffaw!

Comparing the new unibodies with my early '08 15" MPB, the new ones are MacBook BARELY-Pro.

[colourfastt]

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

I do not consider the "pro" in Macbook Pro to be just a marketing gimmick, and IMO loss of EC is a very bad thing. eSATA and other (important to pro users) EC connected-protocols are very necessary for many folks that perform professional work of various kinds in the field.

Apple should provide pro capability on their pro laptops. Adding SD is just a toy and already available via third party EC/34 cards. Another USB (talk about slow) port would be even sillier, even more low end. Personally I will always have at least 17" size so as long as the 17s remain EC-capable its all good with me.

-Allen Wicks

Apple seems to be in a race to the bottom with its laptop features. It seems that the "Pro" models are being designed to appeal to the lowest-end consumer rather than "prosumers" or professionals.