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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Blu-ray/HD DVD... Who is winning?

View Poll Results: Which do you have? (Choose only ONE. Includes stand-alones and game consoles.)
Poll Options:
HD DVD 34 votes (17.09%)
Blu-ray 87 votes (43.72%)
Both 14 votes (7.04%)
Neither 70 votes (35.18%)
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 199. You may not vote on this poll
Blu-ray/HD DVD... Who is winning? (Page 146)
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climber
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Feb 21, 2008, 05:35 PM
 
What cracks me up is that HD-DVD is significantly more "obsolete" than any profile 1.0. player... using his definition of the term that is. I would not use the term on either. I would only caution those who do not know better that one has recently been discontinued and has no long term future. I would also hope they understand that is why it is selling for less than $100 rather than $400. Most times you do tend to get what you pay for.
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Feb 21, 2008, 05:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by climber View Post
What cracks me up is that HD-DVD is significantly more "obsolete" than any profile 1.0. player... using his definition of the term that is. I would not use the term on either. I would only caution those who do not know better that one has recently been discontinued and has no long term future. I would also hope they understand that is why it is selling for less than $100 rather than $400. Most times you do tend to get what you pay for.
Well on the plus side for HD-DVD I guess they finally hit that "magic $99 price point".
     
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Feb 21, 2008, 05:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Well on the plus side for HD-DVD I guess they finally hit that "magic $99 price point".


I'll pick one up as well as a Beta deck and laserdisc player.
     
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Feb 21, 2008, 06:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post


I'll pick one up as well as a Beta deck and laserdisc player.
I have a couple items in my stack of obsolete electronics. A Laserdisc player, Phono, VHS. I just do not have the desire to hood them up. Kind of sad, I have a nice Grado cartridge going to waste with a reasonable collection of vinyl. The few I would still listen to I could buy cheaper on CD then it would cost me for a phono preamp.

I might even wait on my Blu-ray player until high end 2nd generation player is available. I think I am going to order my rear speakers instead (B&W custom series that match my 803's). That would give me 7.1. I will also have to get another amp (probably an Anthem P2).
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Feb 21, 2008, 06:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by climber View Post
What cracks me up is that HD-DVD is significantly more "obsolete" than any profile 1.0. player... using his definition of the term that is. I would not use the term on either. I would only caution those who do not know better that one has recently been discontinued and has no long term future. I would also hope they understand that is why it is selling for less than $100 rather than $400. Most times you do tend to get what you pay for.
I agree that HD DVD players are obsolete... just like Profile 1.0 BD players.

The difference here is that HD DVD players are now $99 with 7 free movies, and BD 1.0 players are $399 with no free movies. It wouldn't be so bad if those BD 1.0 players were only $149 or something, but they aren't.


Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
obsolete |ˌäbsəˈlēt|
adjective
1 no longer produced or used; out of date


Wrong. Profile 1.0 players are still being produced and will be in use for a long time. They play the movie of all upcoming BluRay discs just fine. The only thing you are missing is some extras you may or may not care about.
Out of date for sure. Produced, only because of the grandfather clause. I will note again that even the BDA itself specifically states that no new BD players are allowed to use this crippled 1.0 profile. And I applaud them for that. Because of this rule, as of next year there will be no 1.0 players produced at all.

P.S. What amuses me is that some were so quick to announce the PS3's new found 1.1 support when it came out, when they spent so much time saying just how unnecessary 1.1 support is.
( Last edited by Eug; Feb 21, 2008 at 06:53 PM. )
     
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Feb 21, 2008, 06:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I agree that HD DVD players are obsolete... just like Profile 1.0 BD players.
One thing you are missing... in 6 months or less no more HD-DVD movies. THAT is called obsolete.

BR 1.0 players. Still play the old and upcoming movies just fine just might not be able to play some newer disks special features like PIP. Big whoop.
     
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Feb 21, 2008, 06:54 PM
 
     
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Feb 21, 2008, 06:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
One thing you are missing... in 6 months or less no more HD-DVD movies. THAT is called obsolete.
Of course it is obsolete. I completely agree... and had already said so... in the very post you quoted.


BR 1.0 players. Still play the old and upcoming movies just fine just might not be able to play some newer disks special features like PIP. Big whoop.
I find it strange that some are so quick to claim that 1.1 doesn't matter when it clearly matters to the BDA itself, for good reason.

P.S. Out of those promoting BD 1.0 players, how many of you actually own one? I suspect the majority (but not all) of you own PS3s, which just happens to be the only player in existence today that we know for sure will eventually be BD 2.0 compliant, and which is already 1.1 compliant. Something doesn't jive here.
     
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Feb 21, 2008, 07:41 PM
 
Well, to be fair, HD DVD players are some of the best upscalers on the market.

That's why I still feel good about my $100 HD DVD player. Since I needed one anyway.

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Feb 21, 2008, 07:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Of course it is obsolete. I completely agree... and had already said so... in the very post you quoted.
So then you agree that the HD-Players are a vastly more obsolete. Glad we are clear on that one

Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I find it strange that some are so quick to claim that 1.1 doesn't matter when it clearly matters to the BDA itself, for good reason.

P.S. Out of those promoting BD 1.0 players, how many of you actually own one? I suspect the majority (but not all) of you own PS3s, which just happens to be the only player in existence today that we know for sure will eventually be BD 2.0 compliant, and which is already 1.1 compliant. Something doesn't jive here.
Just becouse you and as you claim the BDA thinks profile 1.1 is important does not mean it is important to most. Especially when they find out that it really means PIP extras. Unfortunately many of the ill-informed just hear from those like you that the current players are "obsolete". Please tell me how it would be so for someone who does not care about those features.

As far as not owning a 1.0 player, please show me any player that supports all of the audio codecs. I will buy the first one that is available regardless of profiles. Funny thing is the BDA was more concerned with matching that particular feature of HD-DVD they neglected the audio. It's the quality of the main feature that matters most.
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Feb 22, 2008, 02:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
Sorry, but what do you base your opinion off of? It's just your gut feeling? Because the HDCP requirements exist. You can look them up.

Their are only two ways Blu-Rays will ever play on OS X:
1) The current system is left unchanged and all movies will be down-scaled to SD quality.
2) The OS X kernel, which is open source, will be forked and the source will be closed. HDCP required pathways will be added and full Blu-Ray functionality will be available.

The only other option would be if the Blu-Ray consortium gets rid of the HDCP requirement, and that just isn't going to happen.

Edit - none of this precludes Apple from including Blu-Ray drives for authoring and backup purposes. This only speaks to playback of DRM'd Blu-Ray movies. But the chance of Apple including a gimped system is very slim. You can already buy external Blu-Ray drives if you want that functionality.
Like I said, I'm not an engineer. But if they can put all of f'ing YouTube in somebody's pocket, I'm pretty sure they can make Mac run BD. Yes, that's my gut, but I'd put money on you guys who are nay-saying Apple--a frickin' member of the consortium--being able to implement Blu Ray being about as dead wrong as all the guys who said HD DVD was going to win this format war.

Wait and watch it happen.
     
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Feb 22, 2008, 02:00 AM
 
Oh, and I think we should all be able to agree this is now the stupidest argument ever known to man.

And I say again, all I want to know is when I'll be able to get Bourne and Serenity on my PS3 in hi-def.
     
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Feb 22, 2008, 09:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by Helmling View Post
Like I said, I'm not an engineer. But if they can put all of f'ing YouTube in somebody's pocket, I'm pretty sure they can make Mac run BD. Yes, that's my gut, but I'd put money on you guys who are nay-saying Apple--a frickin' member of the consortium--being able to implement Blu Ray being about as dead wrong as all the guys who said HD DVD was going to win this format war.

Wait and watch it happen.
Hilarious. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The technical ability to add the playback is different from what we're talking about. We're talking about problems with the design of the OS that precludes the addition of HD playback, and the fact that it can't be added without a drastic change to Apple's software philosophy.

It's a riot that you can be so confident about something you know nothing about.

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Feb 22, 2008, 11:55 AM
 
So when are all the Paramount/Universal movies coming to Bluray?
With all the sales of HD-DVD players going on and the fire sales on HD-DVDs, I'm getting this crazy idea to pick one up for the HD-DVDs that won't come out for a while on BR, and then using the HD-DVD player as an upconverter on a second TV later.
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Feb 22, 2008, 12:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by cjrivera View Post
So when are all the Paramount/Universal movies coming to Bluray?
With all the sales of HD-DVD players going on and the fire sales on HD-DVDs, I'm getting this crazy idea to pick one up for the HD-DVDs that won't come out for a while on BR, and then using the HD-DVD player as an upconverter on a second TV later.
There hasn't been any kind of announcement on when previously released titles will be coming out. Rumors are that Transformers is close, but I haven't heard anything else.

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Feb 22, 2008, 01:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Helmling View Post
Like I said, I'm not an engineer. But if they can put all of f'ing YouTube in somebody's pocket, I'm pretty sure they can make Mac run BD.
No, what you're missing is that it's a political issue, not an engineering issue. Yes, there is no technical reason why Apple couldn't add a secure path to the kernel for HDCP, but there are political reasons why they can't.
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Feb 22, 2008, 01:12 PM
 
That's bullshit.
     
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Feb 22, 2008, 01:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
That's bullshit.
That's not a valid argument against their position.
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Feb 22, 2008, 01:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
That's bullshit.
A company called Digital Content Protection is in charge of handing out HDCP keys, which are needed to play back Bluray content. They won't give them to OS vendors who have open source kernels, because then the key would be exposed to the public. I'm very sure Apple's engineers are more than competent enough to implement Bluray support, but without an HDCP key they can't do it. Linux doesn't get HDCP support either.

Again, the situation could change later, if Apple changes how they license their kernel, but in the short term, I don't think it will happen. Apple's displays don't even support HDCP, which is another requirement for playing Bluray.

The only Apple device that does support HDCP is the AppleTV. I think the reason that the AppleTV supports HDCP is that it is not an open device, and therefore could probably use a less secure path.
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Feb 22, 2008, 01:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa View Post
That's not a valid argument against their position.
He says they can't do it, I say they can. One is as valid as the other.

Apple is known to make changes to open source software to accomodate digital rights management. DTrace and iTunes is the example. So they have no "political" objection against doing something like that.
But goMac hasn't even substantiated his claim that this mystical closed source kernel would be required for BluRay playback. If that was the case how come that HD DVD players were based on Linux?
     
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Feb 22, 2008, 01:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
Apple is known to make changes to open source software to accomodate digital rights management. DTrace and iTunes is the example.
This is not nearly the same situation. They didn't have to close DTrace's source, they just modified it. Their modifications are known and available to the open source community.

Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
So they have no "political" objection against doing something like that.
Again, you misunderstand. Digital Content Protection, LLC is the one with the objection, not Apple.

Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
But goMac hasn't even substantiated his claim that this mystical closed source kernel would be required for BluRay playback. If that was the case how come that HD DVD players were based on Linux?
Because the HDDVD players were closed boxes and probably didn't require as secure a path, much like the AppleTV.

To use your own example against you, if Linux is what powers the HD DVD players, why hasn't HDCP support come back to Linux proper on the PC?

Here, do some reading.
High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Feb 22, 2008, 02:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
But goMac hasn't even substantiated his claim that this mystical closed source kernel would be required for BluRay playback. If that was the case how come that HD DVD players were based on Linux?
HD-DVD is not Blu-Ray. They aren't owned by the same people, and their owners don't place the same restrictions on their use.
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Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
HD-DVD is not Blu-Ray. They aren't owned by the same people, and their owners don't place the same restrictions on their use.
Actually, any high def playback requires HDCP. Bluray, HD-DVD, XBox Live, AppleTV, and so on...

The lack of HDCP on the Mac is actually the reason we don't have iTunes HD downloads, so the lack of HDCP is not even a good thing for the digital download people.
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Originally Posted by goMac View Post
Actually, any high def playback requires HDCP. Bluray, HD-DVD, XBox Live, AppleTV, and so on....
Regardless, just because HD-DVD did something doesn't mean it necessarily follows that Blu-Ray will be the same.
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Feb 22, 2008, 02:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
Actually, any high def playback requires HDCP. Bluray, HD-DVD, XBox Live, AppleTV, and so on...

The lack of HDCP on the Mac is actually the reason we don't have iTunes HD downloads, so the lack of HDCP is not even a good thing for the digital download people.
So please tell me if I have this right. The current Macs do not have an OS that allows for the HDCP. So that is why we can not or will not have Blu-ray. Apple would have to make drastic changes to the OS X that they are NEVER going to make. This same limitation will prevent us from having HD downloads on our desktop through itunes. Apple will never make these changes!

So please explain how the apple TV works. It must have this HDCP stuff, otherwise it could not play those HD movies. Do I have this right? What operating system is on that device? That is right OS X, who wouda thunk! It seems they already have a version of OSX that has this HDCP stuff!

This is NOT a technical problem. It may be difficult, but the only thing preventing Apple from Blu-ray playback is their desire. You were better off when that was your argument (It is not in their long term plan). At least that made some sense. But this technical reason cracks me up. Not because I understand the technical aspects better than you, but I see through your transparent arguments. Your just desperately looking for anything that is against Blu-ray.
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Feb 22, 2008, 02:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
There hasn't been any kind of announcement on when previously released titles will be coming out. Rumors are that Transformers is close, but I haven't heard anything else.
I wouldn't be surprised if Transformers had already been finished, and even possibly some copies already pressed, before they went HD DVD exclusive.

So it would seem likely that Transformers on Blu-ray is indeed close.


Originally Posted by climber View Post
So please tell me if I have this right. The current Macs do not have an OS that allows for the HDCP. So that is why we can not or will not have Blu-ray. Apple would have to make drastic changes to the OS X that they are NEVER going to make. This same limitation will prevent us from having HD downloads on our desktop through itunes. Apple will never make these changes!

So please explain how the apple TV works. It must have this HDCP stuff, otherwise it could not play those HD movies. Do I have this right? What operating system is on that device? That is right OS X, who wouda thunk! It seems they already have a version of OSX that has this HDCP stuff!

This is NOT a technical problem. It may be difficult, but the only thing preventing Apple from Blu-ray playback is their desire. You were better off when that was your argument (It is not in their long term plan). At least that made some sense. But this technical reason cracks me up. Not because I understand the technical aspects better than you, but I see through your transparent arguments. Your just desperately looking for anything that is against Blu-ray.
That doesn't make sense. I don't claim to understand all this either, but your only argument is that you don't understand the technology but your gut tells you his DRM reason can't possibly be correct. Huh?

In any case, I've heard the same thing said before for Linux, that its open-sourceness is the major obstacle here. Whether that's true or not (and for OS X) is something we'll have to find out from others.


Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
HD-DVD is not Blu-Ray. They aren't owned by the same people, and their owners don't place the same restrictions on their use.
? These players are closed boxes, regardless of the OS used. The restrictions are similar however in some ways. Both require HDCP, and both require AACS. However, Blu-ray also has BD+ as well, as well as region coding.

Just like HD DVD, there is no Blu-ray playback software on Linux, nor is there Blu-ray playback software on OS X.
( Last edited by Eug; Feb 22, 2008 at 03:08 PM. )
     
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Feb 22, 2008, 02:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by climber View Post
So please tell me if I have this right. The current Macs do not have an OS that allows for the HDCP. So that is why we can not or will not have Blu-ray. Apple would have to make drastic changes to the OS X that they are NEVER going to make. This same limitation will prevent us from having HD downloads on our desktop through itunes. Apple will never make these changes!
Did I say Apple will never make these changes? Are you not reading what I'm writing? I said for now this is the position we're in, and with Apple's displays not even supporting HDCP, it doesn't look like it's going to change that soon. I even specifically said it could change in the future.

This isn't just about software. If I installed a new copy of OS X with HDCP support on my Mac Pro at home it still wouldn't play Blurays because I have an Apple Display, and Apple Displays don't support HDCP.

Originally Posted by climber View Post
So please explain how the apple TV works. It must have this HDCP stuff, otherwise it could not play those HD movies. Do I have this right? What operating system is on that device? That is right OS X, who wouda thunk! It seems they already have a version of OSX that has this HDCP stuff!
Do you have reading difficulties? I specifically mentioned the AppleTV twice now and both times I specifically said why I think it has HDCP.

Originally Posted by climber View Post
This is NOT a technical problem. It may be difficult, but the only thing preventing Apple from Blu-ray playback is their desire.
No open source OS on the PC has HDCP. This is not a situation at all unique to Apple. In fact, Windows is the only OS with HDCP support.

Originally Posted by climber View Post
Not because I understand the technical aspects better than you
That much is obvious...

Originally Posted by climber View Post
Your just desperately looking for anything that is against Blu-ray.
Did I not just mention that the lack of HDCP is bad for digital downloads too? Jesus Christ and Later Day Saints...
( Last edited by goMac; Feb 22, 2008 at 03:05 PM. )
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Feb 22, 2008, 03:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by climber View Post
So please tell me if I have this right. The current Macs do not have an OS that allows for the HDCP. So that is why we can not or will not have Blu-ray. Apple would have to make drastic changes to the OS X that they are NEVER going to make. This same limitation will prevent us from having HD downloads on our desktop through itunes. Apple will never make these changes!

So please explain how the apple TV works. It must have this HDCP stuff, otherwise it could not play those HD movies. Do I have this right? What operating system is on that device? That is right OS X, who wouda thunk! It seems they already have a version of OSX that has this HDCP stuff!

This is NOT a technical problem. It may be difficult, but the only thing preventing Apple from Blu-ray playback is their desire. You were better off when that was your argument (It is not in their long term plan). At least that made some sense. But this technical reason cracks me up. Not because I understand the technical aspects better than you, but I see through your transparent arguments. Your just desperately looking for anything that is against Blu-ray.
Just stop. You have said yourself that you have no idea what you're talking about. Continuing an argument on a position that you have no basis of is useless.

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Feb 22, 2008, 03:06 PM
 
So then you admit that Apple can support blu-ray if they choose to. And it means they would have to incorporate this with a new tower (and display). Glad we are clear now.
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Feb 22, 2008, 03:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by climber View Post
So then you admit that Apple can support blu-ray if they choose to.
Yes, if they made substantial changes to how they license the kernel. Yes, they could chose to make these changes, so yes, they could add Bluray support if they wanted...

(The other obvious option is that the HDCP folk stop being so lame and they allow Apple to implement HDCP in a less secure fashion.)

Originally Posted by climber View Post
And it means they would have to incorporate this with a new tower (and display). Glad we are clear now.
Yes, I'm glad you're on the same page now...
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Feb 22, 2008, 03:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by climber View Post
So then you admit that Apple can support blu-ray if they choose to. And it means they would have to incorporate this with a new tower (and display). Glad we are clear now.
Full hardware support doesn't mean full overall support... unless you're talking about running Windows on a Mac.
     
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Feb 22, 2008, 03:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Full hardware support doesn't mean full overall support... unless you're talking about running Windows on a Mac.
No that is not what I was thinking. I believe Apple will add the a blu-ray drive to their computers. My personal guess the first step will be via an update via software like final cut and disk authoring. Basically so we can author blu-ray disks similar to the DVD capabilities that exist now. That only makes sense unless long term Apple is considering abandoning that part of their software suite.

The second step will be to add playback support for blu-ray. Apple has stood on the sidelines during the format war. But as this capability is more prominent in the windows world, they will have to respond. But that depends on the adoption rate of blu-ray.
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Feb 22, 2008, 03:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by climber View Post
No that is not what I was thinking. I believe Apple will add the a blu-ray drive to their computers. My personal guess the first step will be via an update via software like final cut and disk authoring. Basically so we can author blu-ray disks similar to the DVD capabilities that exist now. That only makes sense unless long term Apple is considering abandoning that part of their software suite.
This is possible because you do not need an encryption key or HDCP to create non commercial content.

Originally Posted by climber View Post
The second step will be to add playback support for blu-ray. Apple has stood on the sidelines during the format war. But as this capability is more prominent in the windows world, they will have to respond. But that depends on the adoption rate of blu-ray.
Again again, this is not at all a simple thing. I have a feeling the primary reason Apple would want to add HDCP is to get HD content from iTunes working on the Mac.

According to the rumor mills, Apple tried to get an HDCP key for OS X a few months ago and were shot down. So, if the rumor mills are to be believed, it's not like Apple isn't trying.
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Feb 22, 2008, 03:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
Again again, this is not at all a simple thing. I have a feeling the primary reason Apple would want to add HDCP is to get HD content from iTunes working on the Mac.

According to the rumor mills, Apple tried to get an HDCP key for OS X a few months ago and were shot down. So, if the rumor mills are to be believed, it's not like Apple isn't trying.
I never suggested it was simple. But it is necessary if Blu-ray becomes the dominant HD format that Toshiba hope for with it's format.
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Feb 22, 2008, 03:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
Actually, any high def playback requires HDCP. Bluray, HD-DVD, XBox Live, AppleTV, and so on...

The lack of HDCP on the Mac is actually the reason we don't have iTunes HD downloads, so the lack of HDCP is not even a good thing for the digital download people.
Apple has 1080p movie trailers on their website. That looks like high def playback to me, and I'm pretty sure none of my iMacs have HDCP.
     
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Feb 22, 2008, 03:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by climber View Post
No that is not what I was thinking. I believe Apple will add the a blu-ray drive to their computers. My personal guess the first step will be via an update via software like final cut and disk authoring. Basically so we can author blu-ray disks similar to the DVD capabilities that exist now. That only makes sense unless long term Apple is considering abandoning that part of their software suite.
Actually what I would much prefer is Apple include Blu-ray disc authoring capability in iDVD sooner rather than later, for making discs that support the Blu-ray format but on DVD media.

I understand the spec allows for this, just as the HD DVD spec allows for it on DVD as well. The benefit of this is that any Mac with a DVD burner can make Blu-ray compliant discs that would play on standalone players (and the Mac). Yeah, the storage space limit is a significant issue, but it's good enough for our HD home movies. It's not as if I want to watch 3 hours of HD home movies anyway.

The problem though is that while it was easy to do on HD DVD (and I've tried it myself to confirm it, albeit using other software, not iDVD), it was my understanding that it wasn't easy on Blu-ray because of some weird restrictions and player incompatibilities. Hopefully they've sorted that out, or will soon.


Originally Posted by awaspaas View Post
Apple has 1080p movie trailers on their website. That looks like high def playback to me, and I'm pretty sure none of my iMacs have HDCP.
There is no HDCP requirement for Quicktime trailers. However, there is most definitely an HDCP requirement for Blu-ray, for 1080p playback.
     
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Feb 22, 2008, 04:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by awaspaas View Post
Apple has 1080p movie trailers on their website. That looks like high def playback to me, and I'm pretty sure none of my iMacs have HDCP.
goMac is right about the HDCP issues. The HD trailers are not copy protected the same as a Blu-ray movie needs to be. In order for commercial playback to come the a mac we need new hardware. This is not new. It was essentially the same for DVD as well. Although not for the copy protection reasons.

I think it is possible that an authoring solution from Apple will work on a 3rd party drive on current hardware. But Apple tends to like to encourage us to upgrade our hardware from time to time. But unless blu-ray fall flat on it's face it will be incorporated into future hardware.
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Feb 22, 2008, 04:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Actually what I would much prefer is Apple include Blu-ray disc authoring capability in iDVD sooner rather than later, for making discs that support the Blu-ray format but on DVD media.

I understand the spec allows for this, just as the HD DVD spec allows for it on DVD as well. The benefit of this is that any Mac with a DVD burner can make Blu-ray compliant discs. Yeah, the storage space limit is a significant issue, but it's good enough for our HD home movies. It's not as if I want to watch 3 hours of HD home movies anyway.

The problem though is that while it was easy to do on HD DVD, it was my understanding that it wasn't easy on Blu-ray because of some weird restrictions and player incompatibilities. Hopefully they've sorted that out, or will soon.
I think you are right. That is what I hope for as well. I have not done many movies, but I have done some. I mostly like to shoot digital stills.

As you probably remember, many incompatibles existed with DVD disks pressed with a desktop burner. If their is a market for it, future players might support it. If it is technically not possible, hopefully full blu-ray pressing is not that far away.
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Feb 22, 2008, 07:20 PM
 
Isn't NAB coming up in a few months? Might be possible for the Pro Towers and Studio Displays to get updated. Having a full authoring turnkey solution for Final Cut creating Blu-ray masters would be helpful for major Studios now that the war is over.
     
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Feb 22, 2008, 07:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
Isn't NAB coming up in a few months? Might be possible for the Pro Towers and Studio Displays to get updated. Having a full authoring turnkey solution for Final Cut creating Blu-ray masters would be helpful for major Studios now that the war is over.
I think Apple has decided to bail out.
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Feb 22, 2008, 07:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
I think Apple has decided to bail out.
Well, scratch that theory.
     
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Feb 22, 2008, 07:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by climber View Post
I never suggested it was simple. But it is necessary if Blu-ray becomes the dominant HD format that Toshiba hope for with it's format.
Whichever way the format war went or goes, HDCP may be necessary for OS X. Considering HD-DVD, Bluray, and digital downloads all require it, the lack of HDCP will be a problem.

I think Apple might just be stubborn and try and force the studios to drop HDCP for online downloads. Steve was originally a huge advocate for stuff like HDCP, and I think he's realized how much it's come back to bite him in the ass. At least I hope he's realized that.
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Feb 22, 2008, 08:14 PM
 
Ok so they new topic of discussion is that Macs are never going to be able to play BR movies? Are you serious?
     
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Feb 22, 2008, 08:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Ok so they new topic of discussion is that Macs are never going to be able to play BR movies? Are you serious?
I don't know about "never" - but I can guarantee OS X 10.5.2 never will.

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Feb 22, 2008, 08:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Ok so they new topic of discussion is that Macs are never going to be able to play BR movies?
Where are people getting the word "never" from? It's like I'm arguing with Captain Hyperbole.

It's not likely that Macs are going to get Bluray playback in the near future. The hardware just isn't there, and neither is the software. The software is held back by political issues with getting an HDCP key, and I don't know why the hardware is being held back.

Bluray authoring support is more likely this year, but Apple pulling out of NAB wasn't exactly a positive sign.
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Feb 22, 2008, 08:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Ok so they new topic of discussion is that Macs are never going to be able to play BR movies? Are you serious?
Didn't you hear? Physical media are doomed in favor of downloads, HD movies will never play on the Mac, Sony made a colossal blunder by ignoring the gigantic video game market in favor of the tiny home video market, and there is no point in creating a video standard because you don't make any money from it anyway. For some reason all of these things have only come to light since HD-DVD lost...
     
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Feb 22, 2008, 09:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
I don't know about "never" - but I can guarantee OS X 10.5.2 never will.
Gee, then do you suppose they may support it via updates to OS9 ?

I pretty much bet apple is working on a solution right now, and of course it would require an hardware and software update.

Originally Posted by goMac View Post
Where are people getting the word "never" from
Did you not say that HDCP required changes in the OS that Apple would not consider?
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Feb 22, 2008, 10:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by climber View Post
I pretty much bet apple is working on a solution right now, and of course it would require an hardware and software update.
The Linux crowd has been at it longer than Apple, and they still don't have a solution that doesn't conflict with their licensing...

HDCP would probably be a 10.6 sort of thing, if they manage to get a license worked out.

Originally Posted by climber View Post
Did you not say that HDCP required changes in the OS that Apple would not consider?
Originally Posted by goMac
Again, the situation could change later, if Apple changes how they license their kernel, but in the short term, I don't think it will happen. Apple's displays don't even support HDCP, which is another requirement for playing Bluray.
Originally Posted by goMac
Did I say Apple will never make these changes? Are you not reading what I'm writing? I said for now this is the position we're in, and with Apple's displays not even supporting HDCP, it doesn't look like it's going to change that soon. I even specifically said it could change in the future.
Boy, do I ever feel like I'm just repeating myself over, and over, and over... Maybe this time someone will read what I actually wrote.

It's a political problem, not a technical problem. Politics can change. As of now, if both Apple and the HDCP folk stick to their guns, there will be no HDCP on the Mac. If either side relaxes their positions on their licensing, then we'll see HDCP on the Mac. That's the situation as it stands. It's not a "never ever" sort of situation, but it doesn't look like something that will get resolved in the near future.

Besides, if Apple wants to get HD digital downloads working on the Mac, they need HDCP, or they need to get the studios to drop the requirement.
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Feb 22, 2008, 10:46 PM
 
Even Windows XP supports the playback of HDDVD and Bluray. It's not a problem for MacOS X 10.5 to support HDDVD and Bluray.

Three layers need to support HDCP in order for HDDVD or bluray to work. The software application, the video card, and the display. If all 3 have HDCP support then HDDVD or Bluray should play fine.

Problem right now is that there is no software on Mac OSX to play HDDVD or Bluray, and most video cards on the Mac are not HDCP compliant.

MacOS X is not the problem here.
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