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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Blu-ray/HD DVD... Who is winning?

View Poll Results: Which do you have? (Choose only ONE. Includes stand-alones and game consoles.)
Poll Options:
HD DVD 34 votes (17.09%)
Blu-ray 87 votes (43.72%)
Both 14 votes (7.04%)
Neither 70 votes (35.18%)
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 199. You may not vote on this poll
Blu-ray/HD DVD... Who is winning? (Page 149)
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Eug
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Feb 27, 2008, 03:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Fine. Lets say it is old news but for some reason you still call a direct admission from the head honcho a "rumor".

But out of interest... where did someone else post that direct quote admitting the pay off?
He admitted an exclusivity deal (which we already knew existed anyway), not a $150 million payoff.

You posted the article as confirmation of the $150 million number, and that is not confirmed. As such, it remains a rumour. Yeah, it's probably true (or something close to that), but nonetheless the number is still a rumour.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Feb 27, 2008, 03:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
He admitted an exclusivity deal, not a $150 million payoff.

You posted the article as confirmation of the $150 million number, and that is not confirmed. As such, it remains a rumour. Yeah, it's probably true (or something close to that), but nonetheless the number is still a rumour.
Ya i figured ""As you know, we have been well-compensated for our support." means that they got a a iTunes gift certificate and not millions of dollars.

Although I have to wonder what "as you know" means cuz I don't remember hearing any rumors of a iTunes gift card pay off so he couldn't possibly have been talking about that rumor that everyone knows of 150 mil.

Does the exact amount matter either way? The point is this CONFIRMS the "Rumor" that they were paid off when there was arguments that none of it was true.
     
Eug
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Feb 27, 2008, 03:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Ya i figured ""As you know, we have been well-compensated for our support." means that they got a a iTunes gift certificate and not millions of dollars.

Although I have to wonder what "as you know" means cuz I don't remember hearing any rumors of a iTunes gift card pay off so he couldn't possibly have been talking about that rumor that everyone knows of 150 mil.
Except that Toshiba already denied the $150 million claim last year.

Does the exact amount matter either way?
Yes, because you were trying to make it look like he was confirming the $150 mil number, which is false.

The point is this CONFIRMS the "Rumor" that they were paid off when there was arguments that none of it was true.
Arguments from whom? Not me. Toshiba had already confirmed the existence of "incentives" for an exclusivity deal in 2007. They just denied it was $150 million.
     
Eug
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Feb 27, 2008, 04:09 PM
 
RE: Flash memory pricing, as of yesterday:

32 Gb NAND $11.35
16 Gb NAND $5.37
8 Gb NAND $2.88
4 Gb NAND $2.18
1 Gb DDR2-667 $2.00
512 Mb DDR2-667 $0.99
512 Mb DDR2-533 $0.96

That's even less than I had thought. (Note these are Gb not GB prices.)
     
icruise
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Feb 27, 2008, 04:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Arguments from whom? Not me. Toshiba had already confirmed the existence of "incentives" for an exclusivity deal in 2007. They just denied it was $150 million.
It was probably more.
     
Eug
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Feb 27, 2008, 04:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
It was probably more.
They claimed it was significantly less than that, and did not include cold cash. (Not that it really matters if it was cold cash or something else.) No actual numbers though, so for all we know it could have been $130 million.
     
turtle777
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Feb 28, 2008, 12:04 PM
 
"DreamWorks Animation SKG Inc (DWA.N: Quote, Profile, Research) said on Tuesday it was locked in an exclusive deal to distribute DVDs on Toshiba Corp's (6502.T: Quote, Profile, Research) HD DVD format even though the Japanese electronics maker plans to quit the technology."

DreamWorks waiting for cue from Toshiba on Blu-ray | Technology | Reuters



I can't believe they're not getting out of it.

I'm sure that contract lawyer is going to be fired.

-t
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Feb 28, 2008, 01:43 PM
 
     
Shaddim
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Feb 28, 2008, 08:50 PM
 
Today I wandered by the CompUSA going out of business sale and they had several Samsung and Sony BR players for $250 and under. Not sure what models they were.
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Feb 28, 2008, 09:35 PM
 
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Feb 29, 2008, 12:40 AM
 
     
Eug
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Feb 29, 2008, 11:18 AM
 
I'm the idiot who bought an HD-DVD player. - By Josh Levin - Slate Magazine

In retrospect, it might've been smarter not to buy either player. But alas, I have a strange affliction that left me susceptible to HD-DVD's limited charms: I'm a gadget-loving cheapskate. The typical early adopter opens his wallet first and asks questions later; he doesn't care how many gigs of RAM are inside the MacBook Air, just that it slides into a Manila envelope. The HD-DVD player, however, appealed to a different group, electronics fetishists too imprudent to wait out a format war yet stingy enough to base their purchasing decisions entirely on price.
     
turtle777
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Feb 29, 2008, 12:00 PM
 
So, point in case: "Being cheap doesn't pay" ?!?!

-t
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Feb 29, 2008, 01:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
So, point in case: "Being cheap doesn't pay" ?!?!

-t
Or.. "Cheapest doesn't mean you will win".
     
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Feb 29, 2008, 01:17 PM
 
Apparently Blu-Ray drives reduce laptop batteries to about an hour. Guess people won't be expecting to watch an entire movie on a laptop unless it's plugged into a wall.

Edit: Nevermind, SWG posted a link.
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Feb 29, 2008, 01:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post

They still have 1 minute turn-on times? This crap will never fly with your average consumer. The loadup time on my HD-A2 feels like an eternity, and it's only about 40 seconds.

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Eug
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Feb 29, 2008, 01:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
How much of it actually due to the laser? The CPU requirements I can understand, but I'm surprised the laser is such a power drain.

P.S. The best part of the article is the future Blu-ray-based fashion trends.

     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Feb 29, 2008, 01:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
They still have 1 minute turn-on times? This crap will never fly with your average consumer. The loadup time on my HD-A2 feels like an eternity, and it's only about 40 seconds.
Ya I know I don't understand how anyone can push stand alone players and hate the PS3 with those rediculous startup and load times. As I have said before my PS3 from over a year ago takes seconds to turn on and play a movie. I'll take no IR over 1 min for it to eject thanks.

As for the BR in laptop battery drain... I think most of it is just FUD. I mean who the hell would put one in a device if it can't even get though one movie?

In other news...
Electronista | DreamWorks set free from HD DVD in March

Hd Dvd: Paramount Kills Entire HD DVD Release Schedule, But No Blu Flicks 'Til Summer
     
ort888
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Feb 29, 2008, 01:30 PM
 
My big PS3 turnoff is the lack of an IR port.

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Eug
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Feb 29, 2008, 01:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
I'll take no IR over 1 min for it to eject thanks.
I'll take neither.

As for the BR in laptop battery drain... I think most of it is just FUD. I mean who the hell would put one in a device if it can't even get though one movie?
Apparently, Sony and its friends.

P.S. I didn't hear the same for HD DVD laptops, but I wouldn't be surprised if the battery life was also a concern with those too.

P.P.S. It was not uncommon for early DVD-endowed laptops to run out of juice before a 2 hour DVD movie was finished.

Glad I kept my Star Trek box set. Mind you it's moot, cuz the earliest I'd get a Blu-ray player would have been summer anyway. Probably more like Q4 though (or possibly even 2009), judging by the way things are going in terms of standalone player technology.
     
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Feb 29, 2008, 01:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I'll take neither.
We know we know
     
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Feb 29, 2008, 01:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
How much of it actually due to the laser? The CPU requirements I can understand, but I'm surprised the laser is such a power drain.
Seems so.

"The laser that runs the show [in Blu-ray players] is a very high-power laser," notes Mercury Research analyst Dean McCarron. That laser is one of the main things that conspire to raise power consumption."


It seems the big power hit issue was with first generation laptop hardware designs.

"That process is actually well underway, according to the Blu-ray Disc Association. "In the first generation of laptops that had Blu-ray drives, [power drain] was an issue," a Blu-ray spokesperson said, "but that's been resolved."
The solution has come by offloading some of the decode process onto other system hardware, namely the graphics processing unit, according Dell's Zucker, who also sits on a committee of the Blu-ray Association."
     
Eug
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Feb 29, 2008, 01:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
Seems so.

"The laser that runs the show [in Blu-ray players] is a very high-power laser," notes Mercury Research analyst Dean McCarron. That laser is one of the main things that conspire to raise power consumption."


It seems the big power hit issue was with first generation laptop hardware designs.

"That process is actually well underway, according to the Blu-ray Disc Association. "In the first generation of laptops that had Blu-ray drives, [power drain] was an issue," a Blu-ray spokesperson said, "but that's been resolved."
The solution has come by offloading some of the decode process onto other system hardware, namely the graphics processing unit, according Dell's Zucker, who also sits on a committee of the Blu-ray Association."
That's what I was getting at. I can understand the issue about CPU power, but it's not as if they're totally out of the woods yet in terms of battery life (according to others), and I'm just a bit surprised it's because Blu-ray's laser sucks so much juice. If I had guessed, I would have guessed that part of the reason was due to GPU power. As they take more of the work, they eat more power. ie. GPU handoff solves the CPU usage and machine sluggishness issue, but it doesn't completely solve the power issue, especially if a good chunk of that is because of the laser itself.
     
exca1ibur
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Feb 29, 2008, 03:09 PM
 
According to the article offloading to the GPU is what is helping to save the power, by at least half. The GPU wasn't being used in the first generation drives. It was mostly CPU and the laser eating the battery, which is why it was only on high end laptops. They can spread it to the GPU reducing CPU cycles, like assisted MPEG2 was when DVD was new.

Of course that is theoretical, real world is always a different story.
     
Eug
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Feb 29, 2008, 03:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
According to the article offloading to the GPU is what is helping to save the power, by at least half. The GPU wasn't being used in the first generation drives.
Except the drive has nothing to do with the GPU handoff. It's purely software driven (if the hardware is in place), and even last year's laptops had GPUs capable of software assist, with versions of PowerDVD to support that.

It was mostly CPU and the laser eating the battery, which is why it was only on high end laptops. They can spread it to the GPU reducing CPU cycles, like assisted MPEG2 was when DVD was new.

Of course that is theoretical, real world is always a different story.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. The person may just be oversimplifying things here.
     
icruise
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Feb 29, 2008, 03:22 PM
 
John Gruber quoted this line from the above article as an example of someone being very misinformed about iPhone battery life:

“If you bought an iPhone and you couldn’t watch a two-hour movie, which you barely can now, that would be a huge problem,” [Yankee Group analyst Josh] Martin continued.
But I think the guy meant "If you bought an iPhone and you could barely watch a two-hour movie, that would be a huge problem. And that's the state of things with Blu-ray now."

It's vague, but it makes little sense to assume that he was bashing the iPhone (in a wildly inaccurate way, since the iPhone obviously gets several times that much battery life).
     
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Feb 29, 2008, 03:44 PM
 
There are some Blu-ray laptops that have sufficient battery capacity for playback of two movies back-to-back on one charge, Zucker says, declining to give specifics. Two models might be Dell's XPS M1530 and Inspiron 1420, which the company claims will support 4½ hours of Blu-ray playback.
That line from the article interested me.
That's a lot of battery life for a laptop to get with a continuously spinning drive, especially if all these Blu-Ray sucking battery life claims are correct.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Feb 29, 2008, 04:22 PM
 
Until apple ships a laptop with BR I think it is pointless to talk about. We all damn well know Steve would never have a keynote that says "we now offer BR on MacBooks, although you can't watch a full movie on it".

I mean common.

Electronista | Apple, Dell planning new Blu-ray notebooks?
( Last edited by analogue SPRINKLES; Feb 29, 2008 at 04:34 PM. )
     
icruise
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Feb 29, 2008, 04:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
I mean common.
You mean "come on."
     
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Feb 29, 2008, 04:35 PM
 
Weren't there problems watching a whole movie on the first DVD laptops?

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Feb 29, 2008, 04:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
How much of it actually due to the laser? The CPU requirements I can understand, but I'm surprised the laser is such a power drain.

P.S. The best part of the article is the future Blu-ray-based fashion trends.

That poor woman.
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turtle777
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Feb 29, 2008, 04:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
You mean "come on."
LULZ

-t
     
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Feb 29, 2008, 05:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
That poor woman.
I wonder how much complete loss of dignity costs an hour.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Feb 29, 2008, 05:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
You mean "come on."
Fine just don't "come on" me.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Feb 29, 2008, 05:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Weren't there problems watching a whole movie on the first DVD laptops?
Apple ones?
     
turtle777
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Feb 29, 2008, 05:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Fine just don't "come on" me.
Is that a common request ?

-t
     
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Feb 29, 2008, 05:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Is that a common request ?

-t
Yup but that's also my common response
     
turtle777
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Feb 29, 2008, 05:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Yup but that's also my common response
I see, you got "come on" sense

-t
     
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Feb 29, 2008, 06:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
I see, you got "come on" sense

-t
Just ask icruise.
     
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Feb 29, 2008, 06:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Until apple ships a laptop with BR I think it is pointless to talk about. We all damn well know Steve would never have a keynote that says "we now offer BR on MacBooks, although you can't watch a full movie on it".

I mean common.

Electronista | Apple, Dell planning new Blu-ray notebooks?
Apple offering Bluray on a notebook before offering it on the Mac Pro? Color me skeptical.
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Feb 29, 2008, 06:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
Apple offering Bluray on a notebook before offering it on the Mac Pro? Color me skeptical.
If you like but I think it will clash with the colour of always wrong.
     
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Feb 29, 2008, 09:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
My big PS3 turnoff is the lack of an IR port.
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I'll take neither.
Reallly, you guys still don't want to run out and buy PS3's??? I totally forgot since you haven't posted that since last page! Make sure that at least every fifth posting on this thread repeats that so we won't think you ran out and bought one. And keep repeating the nonsensical reasons over and over again too.

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Feb 29, 2008, 09:31 PM
 
The #1 title on the hidef charts is American Gangster on HDDVD, beating out other Blu-ray titles. What?!!
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Feb 29, 2008, 09:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
The #1 title on the hidef charts is American Gangster on HDDVD, beating out other Blu-ray titles. What?!!
What's HD-DVD? Isn't it like Laserdisc or somethin'?
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Feb 29, 2008, 09:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Ya I know I don't understand how anyone can push stand alone players and hate the PS3 with those rediculous startup and load times. As I have said before my PS3 from over a year ago takes seconds to turn on and play a movie. I'll take no IR over 1 min for it to eject thanks.
My universal remote was more expensive than a PS3. So, yes, I care.
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Feb 29, 2008, 10:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
My universal remote was more expensive than a PS3. So, yes, I care.
How about a link so we can take a look at that puppy?

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Feb 29, 2008, 10:18 PM
 
can OS X be loaded onto the PS3?
     
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Feb 29, 2008, 10:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
can OS X be loaded onto the PS3?
No.
     
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Feb 29, 2008, 10:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
What's HD-DVD? Isn't it like Laserdisc or somethin'?
If you don't know, why are you here?
( Last edited by hyteckit; Feb 29, 2008 at 10:31 PM. )
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
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June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
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Feb 29, 2008, 10:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by mrtew View Post
How about a link so we can take a look at that puppy?
Royal Philips Electronics - Pronto

It's not bad at all, and the damned thing can be programmed for just about anything... except bluetooth.
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