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Remember the 'Zune'?
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iomatic
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Dec 8, 2006, 02:23 PM
 
Heh, that was pretty funny.
     
Gossamer
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Dec 8, 2006, 02:30 PM
 

I had forgotten.
     
design219
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Dec 8, 2006, 02:31 PM
 
I thought that was a myth.
     
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Dec 8, 2006, 02:35 PM
 
100 random Zunes will be pink.

I feel sorry for those people, though I guess it's better than brown.
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demograph68
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Dec 8, 2006, 02:37 PM
 
I own one and it is pretty awesome!
     
design219
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Dec 8, 2006, 02:42 PM
 
Is it pink?
     
Eriamjh
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Dec 8, 2006, 02:42 PM
 
Never heard of it....

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Chuckit
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Dec 8, 2006, 02:47 PM
 
Microsoft is so cute when it tries to expand its monopoly.
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IceEnclosure
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Dec 8, 2006, 02:48 PM
 
Why teh hell did they make it in BROWN? and randomly PINK?

PINK and BROWN?!

there's a joke in there somewhere.

perhaps if I had 3 songs and two zunes, I could put two in the pink and one in the stink.
ice
     
design219
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Dec 8, 2006, 02:49 PM
 
Haaaaaaaaaaaa
     
Chuckit
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Dec 8, 2006, 02:51 PM
 
Oh, incidentally, John Gruber's take on how Steve Jobs will react to the Zune: Daring Fireball: Conjectural Transcript of the Upcoming Negotiations Between Apple and Universal Music
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ort888
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Dec 8, 2006, 02:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by IceEnclosure View Post
Why teh hell did they make it in BROWN? and randomly PINK?

PINK and BROWN?!

there's a joke in there somewhere.

perhaps if I had 3 songs and two zunes, I could put two in the pink and one in the stink.
See, now that is funny. You should start a web comic.

You could squirt into the pink or the stink.
( Last edited by ort888; Dec 8, 2006 at 03:22 PM. )

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scaught
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Dec 8, 2006, 02:54 PM
 
I LIKE the brown zune. It's a pretty good color.
     
demograph68
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Dec 8, 2006, 02:56 PM
 
YouTube - zune

Put away that iPod! You simply cannot resist buying one.
     
design219
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Dec 8, 2006, 02:59 PM
 
That's almost as disturbing and the zune itself.
     
Y3a
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Dec 8, 2006, 03:40 PM
 
HEY!! Zune is as good as Microsofts other innovative products like Windows...The Mouse....and work groups!
     
olePigeon
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Dec 8, 2006, 03:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by demograph68 View Post
YouTube - zune

Put away that iPod! You simply cannot resist buying one.
Is that SFW? I cut the video really quick when I saw the walking penis.
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demograph68
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Dec 8, 2006, 03:52 PM
 
it's rather Freudian, NMS at worst.
     
Kerrigan
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Dec 8, 2006, 04:05 PM
 
I love work groups
     
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Dec 8, 2006, 04:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by demograph68 View Post
YouTube - zune

Put away that iPod! You simply cannot resist buying one.
Did I just have a flashback?
I like my water with hops, malt, hops, yeast, and hops.
     
design219
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Dec 8, 2006, 04:37 PM
 
Oh, now I remember, the zunes all disapeared after three days. Or was it three plays?
     
bradoesch
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Dec 8, 2006, 06:40 PM
 
It was fun while it.
     
Gossamer
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Dec 8, 2006, 06:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
Is that SFW? I cut the video really quick when I saw the walking penis.
I think that's an actual ad...weeeeird.
     
design219
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Dec 9, 2006, 08:31 AM
 
No possible way. That would be taking "join the social" too far.
     
Super Mario
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Dec 9, 2006, 08:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by IceEnclosure View Post
PINK and BROWN?!

there's a joke in there somewhere.

perhaps if I had 3 songs and two zunes, I could put two in the pink and one in the stink.
MS got two in the stink and none in the pink
( Last edited by Super Mario; Jan 10, 2018 at 04:03 PM. )
     
TheoCryst
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Dec 9, 2006, 02:17 PM
 
No, as a matter of fact I don't. Is that an 80s band or something? Cuz it's a pretty terrible name for a band.

Any ramblings are entirely my own, and do not represent those of my employers, coworkers, friends, or species
     
SpaceMonkey
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Dec 9, 2006, 02:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by TheoCryst View Post
No, as a matter of fact I don't. Is that an 80s band or something? Cuz it's a pretty terrible name for a band.
Zwan? No, they sucked too.

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lamewing
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Dec 20, 2006, 11:07 AM
 
Sorry folks. Sarcasm with no actual information to back it up is pretty worthless and makes Mac folks look stupid and immature. /sigh

I have owned the following DAPs (yes I have tried many): 2x 1st Gen iPod, 2 x 2nd Gen iPod, 1x 4th Gen iPod, 1x 5th Gen iPod, 1x 1st Gen iPod mini, 1x 2nd Gen iPod mini, 1x 1st Gen iPod nano, 1x 2nd Gen iPod nano, 1x 1st Gen iPod Shuffle, 1st Creative HDD-based DAP (pre iPod), Cowon A2 (PMP), iAudio X5, iAudio X5L, iAudio 6, 15x Sony/Sharp minidisc and HiMD players and recorders (since 1995) and now a Zune.

I think I have a bit of experience with various portable music devices...and no I didn't include anything from transistor radios through walkman cassette players and PCDPs.

Anywho, I can clearly say the Zune needs a few more features, but this is to be expected since it is a first generation unit. The build quality is TOP NOTCH...something I miss from Cowon/iAudio and 1st/2nd generation iPods. The construction quality of the iPods over the last couple of years has fallen significantly. The hardware is based on the Toshiba Gigabeat S DAP, which means it has solid hardware.

Sound quality is better than the iPod via the headphone amp. I need to get a dock to test line-out as the iPod has excellent line-out capabilities.

The GUI is fantastic and easy to use. Naysayers might attack the click button navigation versus the iPod scroll wheel, but nothing can be done as Apple has a patent on the thing. Plus the scroll wheel has become too senstive in the last iteration of iPods. I really miss the 1st gen mechanical wheel, but hey....

The current weakness of the Zune can be squarely placed on the software and MS insistance on using the MTP transfer protocol versus UMS. I don't expect true drag-and-drop (I love Cowon/iAudio for that purpose) from a large company, but it would be nice to use the unit as a UMS drive without modifying the registry and multi-platform support would be nice. Luckily the software can be ignored for purposes other than syncing to the Zune. I use iTunes and just point the Zune software to my iTunes folder for syncing.

The video support is a bit weak and needs more codec support, especially native Divx and Xvid. Of course Apple also ignores these codecs and doesn't even provide conversion capabilities in iTunes...grrrr. MS isn't any better in that the Zune software won't convert Divx and Xvid....grrrr again.

The stores are unimportant to me as I buy my music on CD and will continue to do so until the online stores provide for true PCM/WAVE/AIFF/lossless files. The 128K AAC are just not up to snuff for anyone with halfway decent ears...and mine are almost 40 years old.

Overall, both devices have their strengths and weaknessess, but for folks here to act like children and fling metaphorical mud and make fecal jokes about the color of a DAP is pretty illuminating in regards to the type of folks who post here. I hope that these people are merely a vocal minority versus the majoirty.

edit.... Oh those pink Zunes are seen as collectors' items and are selling for up to $900.00 on ebay since there are only 100 in the world. Weird huh.
Cheers.
( Last edited by lamewing; Dec 20, 2006 at 11:09 AM. Reason: Forgot a comment)
     
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Dec 20, 2006, 11:12 AM
 

All glory to the hypnotoad.
     
lamewing
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Dec 20, 2006, 11:17 AM
 
I like Leo and have been a fan since Tech TV, but Leo is an over-the-top Apple fanboy so anything he says has to be taken with a grain of salt.

Also, how about folks try a product first (Beast Buy is great for the take-home-and-test option) instead of listening to the media. Who here really buys anything the media says a face value, especially when they try to sensationalize so much of the news?
( Last edited by lamewing; Dec 20, 2006 at 11:17 AM. Reason: error in post)
     
olePigeon
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Dec 20, 2006, 11:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post
I like Leo and have been a fan since Tech TV, but Leo is an over-the-top Apple fanboy so anything he says has to be taken with a grain of salt.

Also, how about folks try a product first (Beast Buy is great for the take-home-and-test option) instead of listening to the media. Who here really buys anything the media says a face value, especially when they try to sensationalize so much of the news?
You sound like you're trying to rationalize your purchase of a Zune.
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Dec 20, 2006, 11:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post
Sorry folks. Sarcasm with no actual information to back it up is pretty worthless and makes Mac folks look stupid and immature. /sigh
Cheers.
Well, what do you expect from a Mac site? I think a lot of people here are hoping the Zune ultimately fails because they own hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of music they bought on itunes which wont play on the Zune or any other player. It's also the case where Mac people still think they are buying their stuff from this rebel underdog company that stands up to huge Microsoft like Luke Skywalker did against the Empire. Personally, I hope the Zune survives and give Apple a little competition. The video ipod has been resting on its laurels for some time now.

The Zune needs to get smaller with better battery life and the "zune marketplace" needs some work. Then, I might consider one instead of an ipod--assuming the ipod doesn't change much until then, which could be a big assumption. Jeez, the fact that the Zune has an FM tuner catches my interest. God forbid I should be able to listen to music I bought OR listen to a radio program on one device--what a concept!

Wouldn't it be a hoot if Microsoft made the Zune OS X compatible? Would MacNN add an "alternative music player" section?
     
Chuckit
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Dec 20, 2006, 12:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Zeeb View Post
It's also the case where Mac people still think they are buying their stuff from this rebel underdog company that stands up to huge Microsoft like Luke Skywalker did against the Empire.
Yeah, now that Apple is all the way up to 5% marketshare with Microsoft still holding a monopoly and trying to extend that to other markets, the situation is completely different from…oh, wait.

Originally Posted by Zeeb View Post
Jeez, the fact that the Zune has an FM tuner catches my interest. God forbid I should be able to listen to music I bought OR listen to a radio program on one device--what a concept!
You must be the last person on earth who still believes the radio is worth listening to. Why would I want to listen to 15 crappy Justin Timberlake and Fergie songs when I've got thousands of songs that I actually like sitting at my hip?
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Dec 20, 2006, 12:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Zeeb View Post
Jeez, the fact that the Zune has an FM tuner catches my interest. God forbid I should be able to listen to music I bought OR listen to a radio program on one device--what a concept!
It has a FM tuner because you can't download podcasts.
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Dec 20, 2006, 12:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
Yeah, now that Apple is all the way up to 5% marketshare with Microsoft still holding a monopoly and trying to extend that to other markets, the situation is completely different from…oh, wait.
Maybe 5% of the PC market but you know the ipod absolutely dominates mp3 players. I'm just saying Apple is hardly an underdog company anymore--not nearly as big as Microsoft, but not the same as it was.

Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
You must be the last person on earth who still believes the radio is worth listening to. Why would I want to listen to 15 crappy Justin Timberlake and Fergie songs when I've got thousands of songs that I actually like sitting at my hip?
Excuse me, but I hope you are not inferring that Justin and Britney make distasteful music?

As for the radio there are some cool talk shows that come on the air that I like to listen to. Also, in a city where planes have crashed into buildings and the power suddenly goes out either in the whole city or just your block the radio suddenly becomes a little more useful.
( Last edited by Zeeb; Dec 20, 2006 at 12:58 PM. )
     
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Dec 20, 2006, 12:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post
Sorry folks. Sarcasm with no actual information to back it up is pretty worthless and makes Mac folks look stupid and immature. /sigh


I think I have a bit of experience with various portable music devices...

The GUI is fantastic and easy to use. Naysayers might attack the click button navigation versus the iPod scroll wheel, but nothing can be done as Apple has a patent on the thing. Plus the scroll wheel has become too senstive in the last iteration of iPods. I really miss the 1st gen mechanical wheel, but hey....

edit.... Oh those pink Zunes are seen as collectors' items and are selling for up to $900.00 on ebay since there are only 100 in the world. Weird huh.
Cheers.


First off, anyone who uses the term DAP is a dufus.

I used a Zune for a day just for sh!ts and giggles.
The screen: Excellent. Everything else: ****ing horrible.

The UI is wonderful, if you're a retard. Counter intuitive. And the layout for how song information is displayed is cluttered.
It sounded fine but nothing that marked an audible improvement over current iPods.
DRM.... is there really a need to go into how asinine and overly restrictive it was implemented in the Zune?
Lastly, how much worse can integration be if they couldn't even get it to work with MS's own existing media player?

Preach its graces all you want. It doesn't make you insightful or correct. In 3 weeks when the sales numbers are in we'll see if you can tell me how successful the Zune is.
And again, DAP? Dufus.

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cybergoober
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Dec 20, 2006, 01:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post
Also, how about folks try a product first (Beast Buy is great for the take-home-and-test option) instead of listening to the media. Who here really buys anything the media says a face value, especially when they try to sensationalize so much of the news?
How about I would try it if I could even use the damn thing on my Mac. At least Apple made the iPod Mac/PC compatible.
     
jokell82
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Dec 20, 2006, 01:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by cybergoober View Post
How about I would try it if I could even use the damn thing on my Mac. At least Apple made the iPod Mac/PC compatible.
Not until the second generation...

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mitchell_pgh
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Dec 20, 2006, 01:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post
Sorry folks. Sarcasm with no actual information to back it up is pretty worthless and makes Mac folks look stupid and immature. /sigh

How about this for actual information:
- The Zune isn't even in the top 3 music players
- It accounted for less than 2% of the market UPON RELEASE and it's DECLINING in sales.
- SanDisk sold nearly 10X as many hard drive based players as compared to the Zune.
- The Zune is receiving VERY mixed reviews from many reputable sources (non Mac-Fanboys)

NOTE:
For those that cry "but the Zune has a radio!" I say "Well, that's great, but you can buy one for an iPod if you want it..."

And perhaps I'm the only one that thinks the sharing of songs feature is:
- Annoying
- Lame

I can't name a single time that I've been with someone where I've wanted to share a song. Not one time. My friends have iPods, but we don't share music. It might be a little cool if you had a public area (like the way you could share songs with anyone on the local network with iTunes) but having to ask someone to see their songs, obtain a song is simply lame and geeky to the extreme.

I'm not saying the Zune isn't technologically appealing, I find many of the features interesting, but I'm also a bit nerdy. The viral feature of the Zune seems forced and unnatural.

Even Paul Thurrott didn't care for it!
( Last edited by mitchell_pgh; Dec 20, 2006 at 01:30 PM. )
     
mitchell_pgh
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Dec 20, 2006, 03:37 PM
 
WOW, not even people that like porn like the Zune.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/20/w...ith-more-porn/
     
lamewing
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Dec 20, 2006, 05:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh View Post
How about this for actual information:
- The Zune isn't even in the top 3 music players
- It accounted for less than 2% of the market UPON RELEASE and it's DECLINING in sales.
- SanDisk sold nearly 10X as many hard drive based players as compared to the Zune.
- The Zune is receiving VERY mixed reviews from many reputable sources (non Mac-Fanboys)

NOTE:
For those that cry "but the Zune has a radio!" I say "Well, that's great, but you can buy one for an iPod if you want it..."

And perhaps I'm the only one that thinks the sharing of songs feature is:
- Annoying
- Lame

I can't name a single time that I've been with someone where I've wanted to share a song. Not one time. My friends have iPods, but we don't share music. It might be a little cool if you had a public area (like the way you could share songs with anyone on the local network with iTunes) but having to ask someone to see their songs, obtain a song is simply lame and geeky to the extreme.

I'm not saying the Zune isn't technologically appealing, I find many of the features interesting, but I'm also a bit nerdy. The viral feature of the Zune seems forced and unnatural.

Even Paul Thurrott didn't care for it!

How about this:
1. It has been out barely a month. Do you clearly remember the status of the 1st gen iPod after one month? I can clearly remember carrying it around my university and folks looking at it and asking what the heck the white brick was. It will take time for ANY product to become known to the general public. Heck yesterday at Best Buy I overheard a conversation between a Mom, her daughter and a sales person. The (seemingly) well-educated woman had no clue how to get the iTunes software, nor how to load music files on to the iPod. She also had no clue that CDs could be ripped to the player.

2. Once again it has been one month. The iPod took two years before it began to seriously make itself known, especially outside the U.S.

3. Sandisk is a much more well known product, so of course they are going to sell more HDD based DAPs in the one month the Zune has been on the market.

4. I have read those reviews and then I compare those reviewers understanding of a DAP to what I mine and I conclude that most have very limited experience with such a device and instead rely upon opinion, news sensationalism, and FUD.

5. A radio....why would I need one? Well, I use an FM radio to listen to talk radio when I cannot access the podcast. Yes, yes, I am oooolllllllddddd. Don't worry, you will be there in another 20 years. Also, the idea of an external component to provide radio support is just silly. Would it not be simpler to buy one of those extremely tiny FM radios and carry it with you as well versus relying upon nothing more than an iPod's battery and headphone amp?

6. The current wifi capabilities, I freely admit, are limited, but not limited by MS, but instead limited by the RIAA and the media franchises. I see no advantage to MS to neuter the wifi sharing capability to the 3 day/3 play limitations currently imposed. I do expect future firmware upgrades to allow for wifi syncing, etc. ONCE AGAIN...it has been one month!!!! Why do you feel it is annoying and lame? How about a bit more meat to your argument.

7. Wow, aren't you lucky. I seem to clearly remember growing up in an community where I was always interested in others' music choices. Mix tapes were common as dirt and provided a wonderful opportunity to try out new bands and singers. I commend you on your obviously vast monetary resources which allow you the opportunity to own every bit of music you will ever need. It is nice you don't have to worry about other peoples' music tastes, nor do you have to ask another person to try out a song.

It is funny to see how people and societies change. I lived in Korea ten years ago and most music players...cassettes, CD players and minidisc units had two headphone outputs to share your music with. I often was able to merely point at a stranger's player and they would offer to let me "plug in". It seems that this type of friendliness doesn't exist here in the U.S. nowadays. That is too bad that folks seem ready to trounce anything they cannot wrap their minds around.
     
lamewing
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Dec 20, 2006, 05:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
You sound like you're trying to rationalize your purchase of a Zune.
I don't need to rationalize my purchase of anything, thank you. I also still use a HiMD recorder and a Cowon A2 PMP. Do you feel I am rationalizing those purchases too. Did I have to rationalize every iPod I have owned in the past..nope. But thanks for your concern.

     
lamewing
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Dec 20, 2006, 06:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Zeeb View Post
Well, what do you expect from a Mac site? I think a lot of people here are hoping the Zune ultimately fails because they own hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of music they bought on itunes which wont play on the Zune or any other player. It's also the case where Mac people still think they are buying their stuff from this rebel underdog company that stands up to huge Microsoft like Luke Skywalker did against the Empire. Personally, I hope the Zune survives and give Apple a little competition. The video ipod has been resting on its laurels for some time now.

The Zune needs to get smaller with better battery life and the "zune marketplace" needs some work. Then, I might consider one instead of an ipod--assuming the ipod doesn't change much until then, which could be a big assumption. Jeez, the fact that the Zune has an FM tuner catches my interest. God forbid I should be able to listen to music I bought OR listen to a radio program on one device--what a concept!

Wouldn't it be a hoot if Microsoft made the Zune OS X compatible? Would MacNN add an "alternative music player" section?

You are 100% right about the Zune marketplace being in the need of improvement....MUCH improvement. It really does stink, but at least it gives better support for indie bands. It is too bad I listen to jpop and use the iTunes Japan store to buy jpop. Neither Zune MP, Sony Connect, or the others can provide the service that Apple has and I will definitely give Apple credit.

Your comment about the size and battery life are interesting. We will see what happens when Apple gives rise to an iPod video device. My Cowon A2 gets about 14 hours of audio playback and 8 hours of video playback. The tradeoff is the thickness of the Cowon unit. I don't see Apple being able to keep the size down on a video iPod with today's technology. It looks like Apple is playing the waiting game until they can get the right tech to keep it small, but then that is comparing apples to oranges.

The fact that the Zune cannot record radio really bothers me as ALL of my Cowon units can do so. I guess the RIAA doesn't have arms long enough to reach Korea...

I don't see why MS didn't provide the OSX support. Of course neither does Sony in regards to their DAPs. It would be wise to provide such support very soon, but I think they are stuck on the MTP idea.
     
lamewing
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Dec 20, 2006, 06:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
First off, anyone who uses the term DAP is a dufus.

I used a Zune for a day just for sh!ts and giggles.
The screen: Excellent. Everything else: ****ing horrible.

The UI is wonderful, if you're a retard. Counter intuitive. And the layout for how song information is displayed is cluttered.
It sounded fine but nothing that marked an audible improvement over current iPods.
DRM.... is there really a need to go into how asinine and overly restrictive it was implemented in the Zune?
Lastly, how much worse can integration be if they couldn't even get it to work with MS's own existing media player?

Preach its graces all you want. It doesn't make you insightful or correct. In 3 weeks when the sales numbers are in we'll see if you can tell me how successful the Zune is.
And again, DAP? Dufus.

Ouch a Dufus huh. Hmmm, so what term should I use? Digital Audio Player seems too work for me, but hey I can live with being called a dufus by a 14 year old punk.

How is the DRM restrictive? Are you referring to the wifi limitation. Then I agreee. The time frame should be longer than it currently is. Otherwise you have no clue what you are talking about. The Zune software eaisly allows the owner to copy non-DRMed music (ie your ripped CD music) BACK to their PC. The iPod doesn't NOT allow for this function, but instead obfuscates the song info on the iPod making copying songs back exceedingly difficult without 3rd party software.

The lack of intergration with Playforsure was intentional to provide a simple experience with the Zune. Just like Apple did with iTunes.

Preaching. Hardly. Merely providing non-sarcastic level-headed information that folks can use versus Apple-fanboy silliness. If you read a serious article and use your head and then decide the XXXXX product isn't for you then cool. But please don't provide worthless opinions without at least providing your reasoning.

Also, I think that the sales figures need to be checked in a couple of years, not three weeks. In addition so what if the Zune isn't #1, it doesn't need to be. As long as sales make a profit (in the long run - ie the Xbox franchise) then all is good and people can be happy.
     
sek929
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Dec 20, 2006, 06:13 PM
 
Everyone I know owns iPods, and most of them are PC users.

I doubt they even know what a Zune is.

M$ muscled its way into gaming consoles, and actually did it very well. I doubt they are due for any more real innovative success for at least another 5 years.
     
Jim Paradise
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Dec 20, 2006, 06:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post
Sound quality is better than the iPod via the headphone amp. I need to get a dock to test line-out as the iPod has excellent line-out capabilities.
I haven't heard much in the way of complaints about the iPod's sound-producing capabilities. In fact, I remember reading a site last year that did comparisons between various iPods and other mp3 players, and showed that the iPod reproduced sound quite accurately in most cases (especially with the Shuffles).
     
lamewing
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Dec 20, 2006, 06:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jim Paradise View Post
I haven't heard much in the way of complaints about the iPod's sound-producing capabilities. In fact, I remember reading a site last year that did comparisons between various iPods and other mp3 players, and showed that the iPod reproduced sound quite accurately in most cases (especially with the Shuffles).
Jim,
Sound reproduction is a messy business, and either people love the iPod sound or hate it. The only problem I have with the iPod sound comes from its rather flat, neutral sound and more importantly the lack of an adjustable EQ. Too bad MS follow suite and didn't provide an adjustable EQ. The Zune (really a Toshiba Gigabeat internally) has a sound quality that just has a bit more "life" too it IMHO. Of course so does the Cowon and Sony.
You are right about the shuffles. They use a different sound processor that is significantly better than the ones in the larger units. I have NO CLUE why Apple didn't choose to use this processor in their other models as it does sound incredible....my wife and I share a new shuffle when we take turns at the gym.
     
Gossamer
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Dec 20, 2006, 06:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post
Jim,
Sound reproduction is a messy business, and either people love the iPod sound or hate it.
I'm indifferent.
     
lamewing
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Dec 20, 2006, 06:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Gossamer View Post
I'm indifferent.
okee dokey
     
xi_hyperon
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Dec 30, 2006, 11:26 PM
 
     
 
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