[lpkmckenna]

Ok, time to vent some pent-up frustration.

I just bought a new MBP. I decided to play some of the more graphically demanding games that I owned but was avoiding (Borderlands, The Force Unleashed), and today I bought Arkham Asylum, which I've never played. It seems like yet another solid port from Feral Interactive. But....

Are none of these game devs left-handed? Are they too lazy to check if their controls are any good for left-handed players?

Without exception, every game is configured for WASD to move, with the cursor keys as the alternate settings for left handers. HOW CAN I PLAY A GAME LIKE THAT YOU FNCKING MORONS? With WASD, there are a dozen nearby keys (tab, q, e,r, f, z, x, c, v, 1, 2, 3), and the game helpfully pre-assigns actions to those keys. With the cursor keys, you can't reach sh!t except option, /, and shift.

So every single game requires me to move my controls, and I move them up to PL;' because that's the best spot for me. From there I can reach lots of other keys. I jump with the return key and couch with the shift key. Because I'm a laptop user, I prefer to only point with the trackpad, and I use the spacebar, command, and option instead of click, right-click, and middle-click. This system has worked great for me for many games, like the Unreal Tournament games, Bioshock, anything from Valve, and so on.

So having to move they keys is a minor nuisance, but the fact that the left-hand default controls on every single game is broken at startup somehow never gets noticed by game devs. Are they all blind or stupid or lazy? But it gets worse.

Lots of games now won't let you change the key controls from within the game, requiring you to reboot just to change controls. Both Batman and Force Unleashed require this. I can understand that this can be an issue when porting games, and I can forgive it. But....

So I change the controls for Force Unleashed. But those changes aren't reflecting in the game's UI while you play! So when the game's stupid Quick Time Event sequences happen, it still tells me to push E or Space, when I moved those commands to O and Return! THIS IS FNCKING RETARDED! The game is constantly telling me to hit keys that I had to change because I'm a left-hander.

Batman did something almost as stupid. It lets me assign something to Command, and then it doesn't work. (Windows ports are notorious for not recognizing the Command key). The game won't react at all to the Command key, but it still lets you assign actions to that key? Do these guys do any play-testing at all? And worst of all, the game won't let me move click, right-click, and middle-click actions to space, comd, and option. Argggg!!! And the game requires multi-click actions, like right-clicking to aim your batarang, and left-clicking to then throw it. How am I supposed to do that with a trackpad? And to top it off, I can't assign anything to the ' key, so I have to use OKL: instead of PL;' which would be fine, but now I have to reach over the ' key to press the return key. There's a dead key next to my pinky I can't use.

I'm never buying a game again. Fnck these morons.

[subego]

You're holding it wrong.

[P]

A few reflections on this.

1) Configuring things to non-letter keys makes things very tricky when localizing. The letter keys are more or less fixed, but anything else moves around, making the prompts fail etc. The right side of the letter keyboard is notoriously in flux, because many countries have their own letters or accents that need spot in that area. The left side is better (although the french insist on the AZERTY setup, which confuses things on occasion) and the numeric keyboard is often not there, meaning that the arrow keys it is.

2) Quite a lot of lefties use the mouse in their right hand. I'm righthanded, but with old symmetric mice I sometimes use my left. As I've said before - and completely failed to substantiate, so I'm relying on nothing but memory here - Apple used to recommend using the mouse in your off hand. Especially with console ports (which are the worst offenders, because the PC port is thrown together in two weeks after the console game has gone off to certification), there is usually an aim assist, so you don't even have to be precise. Ever tried it - or is it harder because it's the trackpad? How hard is it to game with the trackpad anyway?

3) Ever considered a controller for games like Batman: AA. Honest question - I used to have one for old 8bit Nintendo games in a emulator, but it broke, and I'm considering getting a new one.

[Waragainstsleep]

You play FPS with a trackpad?

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

You play FPS with a trackpad?

And it works fantastic! But I only aim with the trackpad, I don't click. I activate the weapons using space, comd, and option with the thumb on my other hand. But with Batman, I have to click, which sucks but does work ok, since it's not a precision shooter.

Originally Posted by P 

Configuring things to non-letter keys makes things very tricky when localizing. The letter keys are more or less fixed, but anything else moves around, making the prompts fail etc. The right side of the letter keyboard is notoriously in flux, because many countries have their own letters or accents that need spot in that area. The left side is better (although the french insist on the AZERTY setup, which confuses things on occasion) and the numeric keyboard is often not there, meaning that the arrow keys it is.

I'm not buying this. If they can localize the voices and text, they can localize the keyboard settings.

Quite a lot of lefties use the mouse in their right hand. ... Ever tried it - or is it harder because it's the trackpad?

For ordinary computer use, I can use the mouse or trackpad with my right hand just fine; in fact, I tend to switch back and forth on the trackpad without thinking about it, which nicely lets me switch arms for holding my head up. But I can't precision game with my right hand.

How hard is it to game with the trackpad anyway?

Once I realized I could just aim with my left, and do everything else with my right, it was all over for my enemies.

Ever considered a controller for games like Batman: AA. Honest question - I used to have one for old 8bit Nintendo games in a emulator, but it broke, and I'm considering getting a new one.

I like to game with my laptop on my lap, which I can do on the couch, in bed, on a plane, whatever. The freedom of never, ever needing a mouse is like bliss on tap. I did own a controller once, but it was a lesser experience than even using a mouse. I think I can manage Batman with the trackpad.

[reader50]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

The freedom of never, ever needing a mouse is like bliss on tap.

My experience has been the opposite. It's annoying to troubleshoot someone's system with trackpad or trackball. Give me a good MX518 mouse and I'm so much more productive.

My mouse wheel went out awhile back (fuzz needed cleaning) and it bugged me more than expected. Apparently I use it constantly.

[P]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

I'm not buying this. If they can localize the voices and text, they can localize the keyboard settings.

They don't - but that's not what I meant. I meant the situation when someone plays the US English version on a keyboard that is not US standard.

[olePigeon]

You could try using something like USB Overdrive, then make a profile for the game with unassigned keys in the game assigned to the mouse clicks. That way when you play the game, something like the comma would be left click, period middle click, and forward slash for right click.

[mduell]

Why not move your keyboard over while you're playing games so your right hand is on wasd?

[edddeduck]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Are none of these game devs left-handed? Are they too lazy to check if their controls are any good for left-handed players?

Just under 10% of users are left handed, due to the design of controls you can either have decent controls for right or left users but not both in a single setup, if you think that everything is swapped round you can see one type will be compromised a little.

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Without exception, every game is configured for WASD to move, with the cursor keys as the alternate settings for left handers. HOW CAN I PLAY A GAME LIKE THAT YOU FNCKING MORONS? With WASD, there are a dozen nearby keys (tab, q, e,r, f, z, x, c, v, 1, 2, 3), and the game helpfully pre-assigns actions to those keys. With the cursor keys, you can't reach sh!t except option, /, and shift.

I would have to say that is what customisation is for. People with different control preferences or physical traits can try out their favourites. One of our testers has limited use of both of his arms yet can still test and give valuable feedback so most things are possible with a little customisation.

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Both Batman and Force Unleashed require this. I can understand that this can be an issue when porting games, and I can forgive it. But....

Batman did something almost as stupid. It lets me assign something to Command, and then it doesn't work.

That was a small oversight we do test keyboards in all languages in fact for Batman we needed to support 8 different languages (and their native keyboards). If you have a problem with the cmd key I suggest you email our support and we can patch it, ranting in the forum won't do anything unless someone happens to read it by chance!

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

he game won't let me move click, right-click, and middle-click actions to space, comd, and option. Argggg!!! And the game requires multi-click actions, like right-clicking to aim your batarang, and left-clicking to then throw it.

That was a design decision of the game itself trying to get round it is tricky. We did debate this and look at the best solution overall. In that solution their would be compromises.

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

How am I supposed to do that with a trackpad?

The secondary controls allow you to play using a magic mouse (or trackpad). It's not great but playing with a trackpad that is missing features the game was designed around (like being able to left and right click at once) makes it hard to adapt the controls. We decided the defaults should be for people playing with a standard 2 button mouse (most of our users) and the secondary controls will allow users who don't use a gamepad or fully featured mouse.

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

And to top it off, I can't assign anything to the ' key, so I have to use OKL: instead of PL;' which would be fine, but now I have to reach over the ' key to press the return key. There's a dead key next to my pinky I can't use.

I'm never buying a game again. Fnck these morons.

Again I am surprised that key does not map (we test keyboards in all languages every build) however let us know via support (after updating to 1.0.2) and we can look at improving it if it is still an issue.

Edwin

p.s. We had a lefty working at Feral and ever since then we have tried to make sure the game can be customised for lefties with things like allowing gamepad or mouse buttons to be swapped round where the game permits. Sometimes due to the original code allowing customisation is harder on some games than others.

[lpkmckenna]

I'd like to thank you for responding to my post, edddeduck. I would have thanked you earlier, but I've been spending all my free time playing your port. I just finished it yesterday, and had a pretty good time. I will probably still be playing Challenge maps and Extra Content for a long time.

From a technical perpective, Feral's ports are nothing short of perfect, including this one. I previously bought and played Bioshock, Borderlands, and LEGO SW, and B:AA maintains the high standard that makes Feral my favourite porting company. (The Force Unleashed ensured I will never buy anything from that other company again.) Aside from the annoying customization complaints I brought up - which are endemic to all games and ports especially - B:AA is essentially flawless. The graphics are smooth, gameplay is completely glitch-free, and the extremely quick loading times were very welcome.

By way of comparison to the gaming world paragons at Valve, Source-engine games like Portal 2 are very slow to load, and the audio engine is still creaky with audio-syncing issues. So you guys are definitely doing something right, and I hope you also port Arkham City. I will almost certainly be picking up your Deus Ex port, and Mafia II looks tempting too, even though gangster games are not really my thing.

Originally Posted by edddeduck 

Just under 10% of users are left handed, due to the design of controls you can either have decent controls for right or left users but not both in a single setup, if you think that everything is swapped round you can see one type will be compromised a little.

I really have trouble believing this, but ok.

I would have to say that is what customisation is for. People with different control preferences or physical traits can try out their favourites. One of our testers has limited use of both of his arms yet can still test and give valuable feedback so most things are possible with a little customization.

My main point was the default control scheme for left-handers shouldn't be the arrow keys, because they are a terrible choice. The game is unplayable like that.

That was a small oversight we do test keyboards in all languages in fact for Batman we needed to support 8 different languages (and their native keyboards). If you have a problem with the cmd key I suggest you email our support and we can patch it, ranting in the forum won't do anything unless someone happens to read it by chance!

Of course. I really came here to vent about game devs' treatment of lefties in general, not the specific bugs of your port.

That was a design decision of the game itself trying to get round it is tricky. We did debate this and look at the best solution overall. In that solution their would be compromises.

In the end, it worked out ok. For some reason, B:AA let me assign Space to Attack, which didn't work at all for punching, but still worked for triggering weapons that you activate by right-clicking. It was weird, but it worked out ok.

Again I am surprised that key does not map (we test keyboards in all languages every build) however let us know via support (after updating to 1.0.2) and we can look at improving it if it is still an issue.

Ok. Thanks!

p.s. We had a lefty working at Feral and ever since then we have tried to make sure the game can be customised for lefties with things like allowing gamepad or mouse buttons to be swapped round where the game permits. Sometimes due to the original code allowing customisation is harder on some games than others.

Ok, but ask your lefty if he plays using the arrow keys.

In non-Feral related comment:

B:AA is extremely uneven in its gameplay. I heard the boss fights were bad, but they were much worse than I expected, but the fun of the stealth sections makes up for that. Overall, the normal fights are too easy, the Poison Ivy and Killer Croc sections were completely moronic, and the "juggernaut" boss fights were too hard until I realized that jumping around non-stop like Mario-on-crack made it impossible for the normal dudes to hit you so you can focus on the annoying batarang-wall smash tactic. But like I said, the stealth missions are the real meat of this game.

B:AA also exhibits some really strange design choices.

1) The detective mode thing makes the game unique, but there's almost no reason to turn it off; in fact, I almost never turned it off until I needed to see which dudes were carrying knives or stun-batons.

2) Spend 30 mins or so figuring out how to beat the stealth levels during the game narrative was great, except for listening to the Joker spout the same 3 lines over and over again. Then, when you've finished the game and want to play the Challenge maps, there are exactly 2 intros phrases and 2 death-scene phrases, which you will hear over and over and over again while trying to enjoy the best part of the game.

3) The game explains in detail how to perform most combat moves, but never explains how to use the crypto-breaking device. The controls just seem to say to hold A, D, left click, right click at the same time, which works fine until you need to save two guards from Harley Quinn, which required a web search to explain how to actually use the thing. Plus, in the first third or so of the game, you pass by destructible walls and crypto-locked controls, leaving you no idea that the game will eventually give you the tools to get thru those issues, so I spent a ton of time looking at these walls and locks wondering what the hell I'm supposed to do.

4) The game eventually gives you a Sonic batarang and a remote-control batarang, neither of which is useful for anything other than giving away your position. The game also gives you some combat moves like Takedown or Throw, neither of which I could configure in an accessible way, so I never used and never needed anyway. The batarangs overall were pretty useless, except for the boss fights, when they become essential. (???)

5) The Riddler trophies are just a bunch of game-time padding. If they aren't obvious like "blow up wall to access," they look like game-glitches. There are a bunch of still un-located trophies floating around in my trophy map, apparently hanging invisible in wide-open fields, because I can't see where they could be, and frankly, I'm not inclined to bother with a web search to find out. Except for one or two trophies that required a long-distance wing-glide, the Riddler thing mostly felt like pointless busy-work. But it was better than searching every drawer and closet in Bioshock. In fact, whenever I wandered around in the asylum, I just thanked my lucky stars I didn't have to tediously look in every drawer.

6) How's this for pointless busy-work: prep three batarangs, slowly approach spore-spouting plant, throw the three batarangs at the three spores without any effort, rip out the plant's heart, repeat 50 more times. Then go fight Poison Ivy for the stupidest boss fight design in gaming history.

7) A lot of the dialog is really bad. Batman can walk up to guards and talk to them, and the guard will always say something about being worried about his buddies, and Batman will always say something about "wait here." A few times, spoken dialog by Batman is immediately followed by thoughts from Batman in his own head, which makes you wonder for a second whether the character animators forgot to animate some dialog.

Maybe I'm just a complainer. But really, I do notice the little things too. Batman actually grows five-o'clock shadow as the game progresses, which was a neat little touch.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Why not move your keyboard over while you're playing games so your right hand is on wasd?

I'm having trouble doing that with my laptop keyboard.

[lpkmckenna]

BTW, thanks to Feral for ripping out the Games for Windows Live crap from B:AA. A Mac port might be more expensive than playing in Bootcamp, but an extra $20 is more than worth not having to put up with this crap:

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by P 

Quite a lot of lefties use the mouse in their right hand.

That's me.

[boy8cookie]

WASD => Bad
ESDF => Good

[edddeduck]

Originally Posted by boy8cookie 

WASD => Bad
ESDF => Good

Playing Devils advocate it means that Caps Lock (great for use as a toggle) is out of easy reach. Every control system has compromises build into it. WASD seems to be the one with the least so far. Also as it is a standard it means the learning curve for most people will be much lower.

Edwin

[olePigeon]

Whatever happened to IJKL? Most games on my Apple II always had WASD and IJKL as the two default options.

[P]

The numerical keyboard happened, and we have yet to recover from it.

[Demonhood]

Originally Posted by edddeduck 

Playing Devils advocate it means that Caps Lock (great for use as a toggle) is out of easy reach. Every control system has compromises build into it. WASD seems to be the one with the least so far. Also as it is a standard it means the learning curve for most people will be much lower.

Edwin

But ESDF is where your fingers are already resting for typing. And it gives you access to A (which I use for crouching) and easier access to the space bar. But that's just me.