[FireWire]

http://cbs11tv.com/local/dogs.shot.dogs.2.802961.html

A North Texas family is mourning the loss of two of their pets. The nine-month-old pit bulls were shot and killed by a neighbor who says it was self defense.

The shooting happened in a neighborhood off Ten Mile Bridge Road in northwest Fort Worth.

The neighbors never had any problems before. But that all changed over the weekend.

The man who pulled the trigger says he didn't have any choice. But the dogs' owners disagree.

Kristopher Harrison has a six-year-old daughter. He says that's why he was upset when two pit bulls wandered into his backyard Saturday afternoon.

Harrison says he told his next door neighbors, if it happened again, he would shoot the dogs. And that's exactly what he did around 4 a.m. Sunday morning.

[...]

"I wish he just would have went in the house and would have came and told me instead of retaliating that way," dog owner Shaylen Ross said.

One of the animals was found dead in Harrison's backyard. The other was found dead in its own backyard.

[...]

Fort Worth Police are reviewing the case, but they say if the dogs were in the neighbor's yard when they were shot it's unlikely that any charges will be filed.

I don't know what to say. I'm too filled with anger I can't think rationally. I just wish someone will get revenge on this motherfcker

I don't beleive his story a bit.. Come on, he was afraid for his daughter... at 4 am?? Where was she sleeping, on the porch? Just lock the door and call the owner the next morning, sick bastard! This was pure retaliation, and I hope someone will retaliate against him... I wish he has a nice car and nice big bay windows

[Shaddim]

Who lets a pair of pitbulls (or even just one) run loose in a neighborhood? I mean, really.

Can't say what the guy did was nice or decent, but it's always the owner's responsibility to look out for their pets. The owner is as much at fault in this as the shooter.

[Andrew Stephens]

Dogs always suffer if the owner is irresponsible, and plenty are. Big dogs HAVE to be under control, but the neighbour sounds like a real git. Surely a call to the local dog warden would have sufficed.

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by FireWire 

I don't know what to say. I'm too filled with anger I can't think rationally. I just wish someone will get revenge on this motherfcker

Maybe that's how the shooter felt when he discovered two landsharks in his backyard. I'd be tempted to shoot the frankendogs too.

[berkIeestudent84]

The neighbor gave the owner of the dogs a warning about seeing them in his yard. Owner should have known better. Even though the dogs were 9 month old, I'm sure they could have done damage if the opportunity arose.

[Andrew Stephens]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

Maybe that's how the shooter felt when he discovered two landsharks in his backyard. I'd be tempted to shoot the frankendogs too.

Owned responsibly, Pitbulls are not any more dangerous than other large dogs. They just attract unfortunate owners lured in by the image that you are propagating here.

The appropriate way to deal with loose dogs (of any type) is the dog warden or the police, although I guess US police are fairly likely to shoot first themselves lacking the equipment to capture the dogs safely.

Shame all round on this one for owner and neighbour.

[moonmonkey]

Originally Posted by Andrew Stephens 

Owned responsibly, Pitbulls are not any more dangerous than other large dogs.

Thanks for that announcement from the pitbull marketing board.

Would you rather your kids were left in a closed room with a putbull you didn't know or a great dane that you didn't know?

Some breeds are different, its just a fact.

[RAILhead]

He warned the neighbor. End of story for me.

[design219]

Can anyone find that old thread on the merits of such dogs? I seem to remember some lively discussion.

[Mastrap]

If I'd find a pit bull in any proximity to my child I'd do the same.

People who own pit bulls do so for a reason. If they can't be responsible with a dangerous breed then removing these dogs from society probably did everybody a favour. I do feel sorry for the dogs, but the only one to blame here it the owner.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by design219 

Can anyone find that old thread on the merits of such dogs? I seem to remember some lively discussion.

I believe you're referencing this thread, though this looks like a good time, and maybe this as well.

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by Andrew Stephens 

Owned responsibly, Pitbulls are not any more dangerous than other large dogs. They just attract unfortunate owners lured in by the image that you are propagating here.

The appropriate way to deal with loose dogs (of any type) is the dog warden or the police, although I guess US police are fairly likely to shoot first themselves lacking the equipment to capture the dogs safely.

Shame all round on this one for owner and neighbour.

My cousin was mauled by a pit bull at age 10 or 11. The owner assured everyone that it was safe. The owner was in the yard with my cousin's family. One second the dog was playful, the next it had its teeth piercing her cheeks. It took four adults to pull the dog off of her.

I don't know how many stitches it required to put her face back together, and I don't know how many years it took for the scars to fade.

If my children were in danger, you can bet I'd choose to take action over the inaction of calling animal control and police (we call it 'animal control' and not 'dog warden', you see.)

Police aren't there to prevent crimes. Their role is to clean up after one occurs. It's up to individuals to protect themselves and their families.

I grant you that the neighbor's daughter is unlikely to be playing in the yard at 4am. However, it's their yard, maybe she wants to have a sleepover in a tent in the backyard and cannot because the dog owner won't control his dogs? There are lots of things that are unfortunate here, but it all begins and ends with an irresponsible dog owner. The neighbor told the owner what he'd do, and he defended his family against dangerous animals kept by an irresponsible owner.

I hope he doesn't get charged, and I hope more owners act responsibly.

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by FireWire 

http://cbs11tv.com/local/dogs.shot.dogs.2.802961.html



I don't know what to say. I'm too filled with anger I can't think rationally. I just wish someone will get revenge on this motherfcker

This was pure retaliation, and I hope someone will retaliate against him... I wish he has a nice car and nice big bay windows

You need to be very very careful and avoid encouraging people to commit crimes like property damage (your car and windows comment) or attack on his person (revenge on the person.)

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Andrew Stephens 

Owned responsibly, Pitbulls are not any more dangerous than other large dogs. They just attract unfortunate owners lured in by the image that you are propagating here.

Statistics on dog-related human fatalities:

Code:
TABLE 1. Dog breeds and crossbreeds* involved in dog-bite-related fatalities, by 2-year period -- United States, 1979-1996 +
=========================================================================================================================================================================
Category                                  1979-1980    1981-1982    1983-1984     1985-1986    1987-1988    1989-1990    1991-1992    1993-1994     1995-1996    Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Breed
  "Pit bull"                                  2            5            10            9           12            8            6            5             3           60
  Rottweiler                                  0            0             1            1            3            1            3           10            10           29
  German shepherd                             2            1             5            1            1            5            2            0             2           19
  "Husky"                                     2            1             2            2            0            2            2            1             2           14
  Alaskan malamute                            2            0             3            1            0            2            3            1             0           12
  Doberman Pinscher                           0            1             0            2            2            2            1            0             0            8
  Chow Chow                                   0            1             0            0            0            2            3            0             2            8
  Great Dane                                  3            1             0            0            0            0            0            1             1            6
  St. Bernard                                 1            2             1            0            0            0            0            0             0            4
  Akita                                       0            0             0            0            0            1            1            2             0            4

Crossbreed
  Wolf hybrid                                 0            1             1            2            1            4            1            2             2           14
  German shepherd                             0            2             0            2            2            2            0            1             2           11
  "Pit bull"                                  0            1             0            3            2 &          3            1            1             0           10 &
  "Husky"                                     0            1             1            2            1            1            0            0             0            6
  Alaskan malamute                            0            0             0            0            0            2            1            0             0            3
  Rottweiler                                  0            0             0            0            1 &          1            0            1             1            3 &
  Chow Chow                                   0            0             0            0            0            1            0            1             1            3
No. incidents for which breed known          10           20            27           24           22           35           24           25            22          199
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Data shown only for breeds and crossbreeds involved in four or more fatalities. Each breed contributing to the crossbreed is counted only once.
+ For 1979-1994, data obtained from the Humane Society of the United States registry, NEXIS database accounts, and death certificates.
& One fatality also involved a single breed.
=========================================================================================================================================================================

So either pitbull or Rottweiler owners are complete morons, or else the dogs are inherently more aggressive on average, or a bit of both.

Also important to note that neither Rottweilers nor pitbulls are amongst the top three most popular dogs.

Anyways, we briefly had a rescued dog, that was a Rottweiler and bull mastiff mix. We don't consider ourselves morons, but my GF really didn't expect the aggressiveness this dog displayed... to others. After she got used to us, she was sweet as pie with us. Very loving, but very protective. My neighbours were quite afraid of the dog. And I swear, if the dog hadn't been on a leash, I would not have been surprised if she would have EATEN some of the small dogs that walk by from time to time.

Now, every single dog is different, but the bottom line is pitbulls and Rottweilers are overrepresented in severe dog attacks. There are a lot of idiot golden retriever owners out there, and in fact there are more golden retrievers out there than pitbulls and Rottweilers. Apparently a lot of dog bites from golden retrievers do get reported, but fatalities and severe attacks related to golden retrievers are much, much less.

[lexapro]

Look at the "Related Stories" on the website of this news group. It does not set a good tone for pitbulls at all, no sir.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by vmarks 

You need to be very very careful and avoid encouraging people to commit crimes like property damage (your car and windows comment) or attack on his person (revenge on the person.)

He also needs to learn not to get so upset about something that didn't affect him directly. What happened was tragic for the dogs and their owner, but the neighbor was in the right. Our next door neighbor's son owns a pit bull. He doesn't live there, but he's over frequently, and when he comes he usually bring the dog and lets it roam free, and we have no fences. If he sees the dog is not in the yard, he'll call for it, and it usually returns. One night several months ago, there were quite a few sheriff's cars roaming the neighborhood, shining spotlights all over, and one of them pulled into my neighbor's drive, shining spotlights around their yard (they weren't home). I was in the backyard, and the officer asked me if I knew who lived there. It turned out that their son's pit bull had been spotted on the next block and had acted aggressively towards a neighbor's child, and the neighbor had to use a shovel to get the dog to back down. Thankfully, no one was hurt and the dog took off. The problem is, the dogs owner lives about two miles from here, so the dog was where he shouldn't have been. We've been assured that the dog is not violent, and is "gentle as a puppy," which is BS. They didn't find the dog that night, but ticketed the owner the next day, and came over to our neighbor's and warned them about letting their own dog roam the neighborhood (which they also do). It didn't do much good, as I was out on the front porch recently when the son's dog was wandering the block again! Unfortunately, someone may still get hurt by this "gentle as a puppy" dog, and I have a six year old grandson who lives here, so I have reason for concern. The bizarre thing about this is that the neighbor's grandson was recently mauled by a dog, in an unprovoked attack, in my neighbor's own backyard, by one of his friends' dogs, and required stitches on the side of the face, when the dog apparently went for the boy's neck! Some people not only shouldn't breed, they shouldn't be allowed to own animals! Tragically, others often pay the price for their stupidity!

[lexapro]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

He also needs to learn not to get so upset about something that didn't affect him directly. What happened was tragic for the dogs and their owner, but the neighbor was in the right. Our next door neighbor's son owns a pit bull. He doesn't live there, but he's over frequently, and when he comes he usually bring the dog and lets it roam free, and we have no fences. If he sees the dog is not in the yard, he'll call for it, and it usually returns. One night several months ago, there were quite a few sheriff's cars roaming the neighborhood, shining spotlights all over, and one of them pulled into my neighbor's drive, shining spotlights around their yard (they weren't home). I was in the backyard, and the officer asked me if I knew who lived there. It turned out that their son's pit bull had been spotted on the next block and had acted aggressively towards a neighbor's child, and the neighbor had to use a shovel to get the dog to back down. Thankfully, no one was hurt and the dog took off. The problem is, the dogs owner lives about two miles from here, so the dog was where he shouldn't have been. We've been assured that the dog is not violent, and is "gentle as a puppy," which is BS. They didn't find the dog that night, but ticketed the owner the next day, and came over to our neighbor's and warned them about letting their own dog roam the neighborhood (which they also do). It didn't do much good, as I was out on the front porch recently when the son's dog was wandering the block again! Unfortunately, someone may still get hurt by this "gentle as a puppy" dog, and I have a six year old grandson who lives here, so I have reason for concern. The bizarre thing about this is that the neighbor's grandson was recently mauled by a dog, in an unprovoked attack, in my neighbor's own backyard, by one of his friends' dogs, and required stitches on the side of the face, when the dog apparently went for the boy's neck! Some people not only shouldn't breed, they shouldn't be allowed to own animals! Tragically, others often pay the price for their stupidity!

Any chance of calling the police every time you see the dog roaming the streets? I might do just that.

[OldManMac]

I'm not worried about the neighbor's dog, as he is very docile and friendly. If I see the son's dog roaming around anymore, I'm going to call the sheriff.

[FireWire]

Originally Posted by vmarks 

You need to be very very careful and avoid encouraging people to commit crimes like property damage (your car and windows comment) or attack on his person (revenge on the person.)

I know, I normally don't do it. While writing my post, I remembered scolding Cody for doing this a few years ago. As I said, I wrote this post while very upset. And as I read the replies to the thread, I find myself even more angry.

WTF is wrong with you?! Since when giving a warning gives you the right to do anything? What about "If I ever see you kid playing in my garden I will shoot him!" or "If you ever park your car in my parking I'll blow its tires out!". You're not the law, you can't make up punishment yourself. I grant you that the dogs should have been better restrained, but the guy didn't act in self-defense at all. I consider what he did gratuitous murder. And yes I still wish someone will do something, as he will walk away free and certainly doesn't deserve it. For most families, dogs are like kids, or a family member. He has no business doing what he did. And what about the dog who was killed in its own yard? Personally I don't believe the redneck's side of the story at all. He just wanted to give a lesson to his neighbor.

Anyway, nevermind, I just remembered there was an anti-pitbull clique on this forum and thus this is a hopeless thread... Nonetheless, I'm very surprised at the replies we got here. I was expecting a flood of sympathy for the dogs and their owners..

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by FireWire 

Since when giving a warning gives you the right to do anything?

Since when did owning a dog give you a right to let it wander onto other people's private property when it feels like it?

Originally Posted by FireWire 

He has no business doing what he did.

He had every business doing what he did. It's his fsking yard.

[Paco500]

Arrrggghhh... the conflict!!!!

One the one hand- gun control nut. On the other hand, think all pitbulls should be put down and the breed erradicted.

Not sure what side my pinko commie pacifistic ass should be on here.

[FireWire]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Since when did owning a dog give you a right to let it wander onto other people's private property when it feels like it?

He had every business doing what he did. It's his fsking yard

You're right. However, you can't do what you want to "get rid" of the problem. There's a law system for that. Call someone, get the dogs impounded, get the owner ticketed or something. You're not allowed to use lethal means for no apparent reason. Like I said in my example, just giving a warning doesn't give you the right to do what you want, even if it's on your property. Likewise, if your son wanders on the neighbor's driveway with his tricycle, can he legally destroy it? Or worse, kill him? I don't think so...

The moron wasn't in any circumstances under attack or at risk. He should juste have stayed inside. Come on! He even went as far as killing the other dog in its own yard, "just to be sure". What proof do you want that this had nothing to do with self-defense? He just wanted to get rid of the dog, no matter what, and he found an excuse.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by FireWire 

The moron wasn't in any circumstances under attack or at risk.

Well, it's known that dog crap can give you serious diseases. So as far as I'm concerned any dog owner who lets their dog wander onto other people's property is guilty of attempted assault.

Not to mention the inconvenience of such deposits. I paid for my house. I paid for the lawn surrounding the house. So why should have to walk around my own lawn looking at where I'm putting my feet simply because some prat with a dog feels it's OK to let it wander around? Why?

[Eug]

Dunno about the other dog, but:

I didn't think I was going to have to shoot him, because he seemed a little hesitant. But then he looked at the hole in the fence. I thought he was going to go back under, then he turned around and started coming at me and that's when I shot him."

[OreoCookie]

First off, I'm a dog person, I grew up with dogs and I feel comfortable around them. I don't have one now, because I don't have the time to take care of it and keep one properly.

Originally Posted by FireWire 

I know, I normally don't do it. While writing my post, I remembered scolding Cody for doing this a few years ago. As I said, I wrote this post while very upset. And as I read the replies to the thread, I find myself even more angry.

WTF is wrong with you?! Since when giving a warning gives you the right to do anything? [/quote]
vmarks has suggested that people (in this case: you) shouldn't encourage others to commit a crime to ensure that `somebody gets what (s)he deserves.' I absolutely agree with him on this and this was the main part of his statement. Since none of us were involved, we cannot really judge how dangerous that dog was and whether it presented a danger to the daughter of the guy who shot it.

So even if the guy who shot the dog will be charged with something, it's the job of the criminal justice system to figure out if the owner can and should be punished.

Originally Posted by FireWire 

What about "If I ever see you kid playing in my garden I will shoot him!" or "If you ever park your car in my parking I'll blow its tires out!". You're not the law, you can't make up punishment yourself. I grant you that the dogs should have been better restrained, but the guy didn't act in self-defense at all.

A dog is not a person. As much as I love dogs, they are not the same as a child or a human being. I for one think that the guy overreacted by shooting the dog and I don't think it's likely the guy acted in self-defense. On the other hand, the dog (apparently) was on the guy's property (or rather: not on the owner's property) which means the owner hasn't taken good care of them. The dog could have been hit by a car (and yes, dog owners are responsible for the damage), so even in the interest of the dog, it should have been restrained at night (e. g. with a long leash).

Originally Posted by FireWire 

Personally I don't believe the redneck's side of the story at all. He just wanted to give a lesson to his neighbor.

Probably, but that doesn't mean some animal lover should make sure the guy gets retribution.

Originally Posted by FireWire 

Anyway, nevermind, I just remembered there was an anti-pitbull clique on this forum and thus this is a hopeless thread... Nonetheless, I'm very surprised at the replies we got here. I was expecting a flood of sympathy for the dogs and their owners..

This is not quite correct: while many smaller dogs can be equally aggressive, the sheer size and weight of the dog matters. If a Yorkshire bites you, it's probably unpleasant, but unless you're a toddler or a really, really small child, won't be life threatening. Larger dogs can be of the same weight (or heavier) than six-year old children and that makes them potentially more dangerous than smaller dogs.

Our dogs were not allowed near small children and my parents were very lucky that our first dog was very calm and nice. She didn't bite even if we poked her eyes, pulled her hair or tail (when we were really small). Not every dog is so stoic. Many bite back (not surprisingly). If a neighbor doesn't want your dog near his children, you should (as a responsible dog owner!) make sure that it's not near his children.

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Since when did owning a dog give you a right to let it wander onto other people's private property when it feels like it?



He had every business doing what he did. It's his fsking yard.

Since when does a dog in your yard give you the right to shoot it?

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Well, it's known that dog crap can give you serious diseases. So as far as I'm concerned any dog owner who lets their dog wander onto other people's property is guilty of attempted assault.

Not to mention the inconvenience of such deposits. I paid for my house. I paid for the lawn surrounding the house. So why should have to walk around my own lawn looking at where I'm putting my feet simply because some prat with a dog feels it's OK to let it wander around? Why?

So, if a mentally disabled person or person with alzheimers wandered into your yard you'd apply the same logic right? Shoot him. Its my yard.

The question at hand is the value of a dog's life....and i don't believe they should be shot for doing something they don't know is wrong and have no capacity to know its wrong.

[Chuckit]

All I have to say is, don't let your dog wander all around. It's just not a good idea, and it often leads to sad endings.

[design219]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

The question at hand is the value of a dog's life....and i don't believe they should be shot for doing something they don't know is wrong and have no capacity to know its wrong.

The dog is not the problem, the owner is. Some people, people who don't have space for a dog, should probably not have one.

[design219]

Actually, the dog is the problem too. A breed that was designed for aggression is not something that should be kept as a pet. IMO.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

So, if a mentally disabled person or person with alzheimers wandered into your yard you'd apply the same logic right? Shoot him. Its my yard.

The question at hand is the value of a dog's life....and i don't believe they should be shot for doing something they don't know is wrong and have no capacity to know its wrong.

If a paranoid schizophrenic man wandered into my yard and started coming at me trying to bite me, I'd bash him over the head with a shovel. (I don't own a gun.)

The question at hand is the perceived aggression and the potential of danger.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

So, if a mentally disabled person or person with alzheimers wandered into your yard you'd apply the same logic right? Shoot him. Its my yard.

Depends. Is said person threatening my kids or crapping on my lawn?

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

The question at hand is the value of a dog's life....and i don't believe they should be shot for doing something they don't know is wrong and have no capacity to know its wrong.

I somewhat sympathise with this sentiment. However, should the yard owner be made to suffer (worry about his kids being attacked, worry about stepping in dog crap) because the dog doesn't know it's wrong?

Should you let a bear maul you to death because the bear doesn't know that it's wrong for it to be mauling you?

[SpaceMonkey]

Given that one of the dogs was found dead in the owner's yard, the shooter's story seems quite sketchy to me. Unless the article is mangling his explanation, which is certainly possible.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

Since when does a dog in your yard give you the right to shoot it?

Since yards and guns were invented.

It's only the steady erosion of property rights in the last hundred years-odd which leads you to think differently.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

Given that one of the dogs was found dead in the owner's yard, the shooter's story seems quite sketchy to me. Unless the article is mangling his explanation, which is certainly possible.

Could it not be that the dog in question wasn't obliterated instantly and attempted to crawl back home before it finally popped its clogs?

[design219]

That's what Lassie would have done.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Could it not be that the dog in question wasn't obliterated instantly and attempted to crawl back home before it finally popped its clogs?

That's definitely possible. It's a crucial question that the story overlooks.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Should you let a bear maul you to death because the bear doesn't know that it's wrong for it to be mauling you?

One of my friends who doesn't like guns was told that she had to learn how to (safely) use one if she wanted her job, which often had her camping in the woods. So she obliged... Good thing too, cuz later she ended up having to shoot a bear that was charging at her.

[Luca Rescigno]

I don't think we know enough about the exact circumstances leading up to the shooting to judge whether the neighbor was right to shoot the dogs. If it's true that one was charging him, he'd be 100% within his rights to shoot it. On the other hand, it's possible that the guy exaggerated his story in order to give him an excuse to shoot his neighbor's dogs, which he didn't like anyway.

The fact that the neighbors were informed of the problem and still didn't fix their fence gives me very little sympathy for them, though. They should have known better. I would have probably called animal control first, but the moment that thing starts charging me, it's getting shot.

In my experience, dog owners are way overprotective of their dogs and many don't treat them with the necessary level of respect. When I was a little kid, I was out swimming in the lake with my friends when someone's dog jumped in and started swimming around with us. It was fun until the thing started trying to drown me. I think he was really just trying to be friendly, not realizing that jumping on my face and pushing me down with his paws was preventing me from getting air. But anyway, as this dog is weighing me down and scratching up my shoulders and neck, I reach down and pick up a clump of sand. As I surface, I wind up to hurl it at the dog's face, and the owners just started screaming at me, saying he didn't know he was doing anything wrong. I dropped the sand and yelled back at them, "I don't care! He's gonna drown me!" Luckily they called their dog out and left with him but christ, it seems like some dog owners are perfectly willing to deny reality for their dog's sake.

[Luca Rescigno]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

That's definitely possible. It's a crucial question that the story overlooks.

Yeah, unless he shot the thing in the heart, neck, or head, it wouldn't die instantly. It would probably do just that - crawl back a ways before bleeding to death.

[Dakar V]

I have to agree Luca, whenever someone gets upset with someone else's dog, the go to line seems to be that you don't understand the dog.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Luca Rescigno 

I don't think we know enough about the exact circumstances leading up to the shooting to judge whether the neighbor was right to shoot the dogs. If it's true that one was charging him, he'd be 100% within his rights to shoot it.

Yep. It's too easy for some just to say: "Well, he could have just gone in the house and all would be fine. He could just call animal control."

I would have probably called animal control first, but the moment that thing starts charging me, it's getting shot.

Exactly.

As I surface, I wind up to hurl it at the dog's face, and the owners just started screaming at me, saying he didn't know he was doing anything wrong. I dropped the sand and yelled back at them, "I don't care! He's gonna drown me!" Luckily they called their dog out and left with him but christ, it seems like some dog owners are perfectly willing to deny reality for their dog's sake.

You were smart for doing that. Good thinking for a little kid.

Stupid ass dog owner. And that's with a friendly dog. Just imagine if it were an aggressive one. You probably wouldn't be alive today.

BTW, I know someone with an adorable big dog. He does not exhibit aggression to anyone, or to any other dogs. However, the owner still pisses me off, because he lets the dog roam around freely with everyone. We know the dog won't bite, but he consistently knocks people over, just because he wants to play. As far as I'm concerned, a 90 lb dog that jumps all over people and frail little old ladies don't mix. However, the owner just doesn't see that.

[RAILhead]

I pretty much hate all dogs.

/just sayin'

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

I pretty much hate all dogs.

/just sayin'

Well there's one thing we can agree on.

[design219]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

I pretty much hate all dogs.

Dogs have their place. When I lived in a city, I never, ever considered having a dog. Now I'm in the country with LOTS of space I have one. Even so, the first training from puppyhood was socialization with people and especially kids. She's a German Shepherd, but sure no attack dog.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

I have to agree Luca, whenever someone gets upset with someone else's dog, the go to line seems to be that you don't understand the dog.

That even happens with people in the same household. Let's just say some people have a more objective view of their pets than others.

[design219]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Let's just say some people have a more objective view of their pets than others.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Eug 

That even happens with people in the same household. Let's just say some people have a more objective view of their pets than others.

Probably just another symptom of the cat people/dog people divide.

[Andrew Stephens]

Originally Posted by moonmonkey 

Thanks for that announcement from the pitbull marketing board.

Would you rather your kids were left in a closed room with a putbull you didn't know or a great dane that you didn't know?

Some breeds are different, its just a fact.

Anyone who leave a child alone with ANY dog is an idiot, end of story. You should never leave children alone with dogs, you can never tell what either are going to do.

While pitbulls are certainly over represented in the human/dog aggression statistics you only have to look at the population distribution of these breeds to see why this might be. We live in a nice, upper middle class area with a pit bull population of essentially zero. At least I have never seen one out and about. There are hundreds of other breeds. Yet if I go twenty miles into the nearest large town and walk around they are everywhere, often with aggressive young owners who treat them poorly and love the image they represent.

Some dogs are indeed innately more aggressive than others but good training can always overcome this.I would suggest that the vast majority of "dangerous" breed never receive any kind of training, hence the figures.

Certainly any dog that does attack a person should be destroyed but you can't blame a breed for bad ownership.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Andrew Stephens 

Anyone who leave a child alone with ANY dog is an idiot, end of story. You should never leave children alone with dogs, you can never tell what either are going to do.

Some attacks are with kids playing in the park under supervision.

While pitbulls are certainly over represented in the human/dog aggression statistics you only have to look at the population distribution of these breeds to see why this might be. We live in a nice, upper middle class area with a pit bull population of essentially zero.

There are lots of pitbulls in Toronto. I lived in a middle class condo complex and there were a couple just in my complex. The owners were very nice and reasonable people, and kept them muzzled, as the law here requires.

Personally I don't give a damn that pitbulls have been improperly bred to show aggression. The fact of the matter is that they are aggressive, and viciously so, and have the power to do serious damage.