[Gametes]

Supposedly, the eject key was moved to avoid accidental ejections. Let's do a comparison, shall we? In two years of use:
# of times I've accidentally hit the F12 key: 893
# of times I've accidentally hit the hardware eject key: 0

morons.

Also, I think the implementation of two apple keys instead of two option keys is a good idea, but the enter key should have stayed on the left. Now I am going to constantly hit Apple when I mean enter. It is good right next to the space bar.

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you are not your signature

[geek77]

a) learn how to type

b) The f12 key has to be held down for a second or two. So unless you "accidentally" hold it down for 1-2 seconds, nothing will happen.

[Skywalkers new Hand]

I agree with the change. I have pulled iBooks out of bags only to find that the eject key was hit somehow and now the tray is full of bag grud.

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Originally posted by Gametes:
Supposedly, the eject key was moved to avoid accidental ejections. Let's do a comparison, shall we? In two years of use:
# of times I've accidentally hit the F12 key: 893
# of times I've accidentally hit the hardware eject key: 0

morons.

Also, I think the implementation of two apple keys instead of two option keys is a good idea, but the enter key should have stayed on the left. Now I am going to constantly hit Apple when I mean enter. It is good right next to the space bar.

youre an idiot

everyone complained about the enter key now you want it back?

and the f12 key must be held down... unless you are really stupid it wont eject on accident

[RoofusPennymore]

I just realized that this could be a problem for those of us who use want to use it with the lid closed (external monitor). If we don't already have a CD in the tray then we will have to upen the lid to get the tray to eject.

I just realized that this could be a problem for those of us who use want to use it with the lid closed (external monitor). If we don't already have a CD in the tray then we will have to upen the lid to get the tray to eject.

<sarcasm> Wow, that's a huge problem. Do you need a shoulder to cry on? I think there is support group for this... </sarcasm>

[Skywalkers new Hand]

Originally posted by RoofusPennymore:
I just realized that this could be a problem for those of us who use want to use it with the lid closed (external monitor). If we don't already have a CD in the tray then we will have to upen the lid to get the tray to eject.

OH THE HUMANITY!

P.S. The new iBook also has a fan!!!! IT IS THE END OF THE WORLD! Ahhhhh!

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[rjsweb]

Forgive my ignorance... I don't have a Mac yet but I'm planning on buying an iBook as soon as my local reseller gets one in.

On a PC running Windows 2000 (I hate Windows, but that is beside the point), you can right-click on the drive, and a little menu pops down. In the menu is an item that says "Eject". You click on it, and the drive slides open, without pressing the button on the front or pressing the F12 key.

Will the Mac do this? In either 9.1 or X? If it would, the lid could be closed and you could eject the CD without opening it up and hitting the F12 key. I know Apple wanted to simplify the design, but it seems to me a little tiny eject button wouldn't have messed up the look at all.

[c0rvette]

drag to trash, or select eject from menu

[jmatero]

Yes, in both 9.1 and osx you hold the control key down and click and the option will pop up to eject the disk.

(control click - mainly in os9.1 - is like right-clicking on a pc)

[Skywalkers new Hand]

Originally posted by rjsweb:
you can right-click on the drive, and a little menu pops down. In the menu is an item that says "Eject". You click on it, and the drive slides open, without pressing the button on the front or pressing the F12 key.

Yup, Mac's have done that for at least 4 years.


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[Gametes]

Whether you choose to behave civilly or not has no bearing on the argument at hand, except perhaps to diminish your own. I think if you had anything valid to say you would have.

The fact remains that, moron or not, I sometimes hit the F12 key when intending to delete. Maybe I'm typing too fast and it's dark, but the reason is less relevant than the effect, which would be to eject the cd tray unintentionally. Delaying the machine's reaction is a good counterbalance, but I think it would be innefective because I wouldn't realize my mistake until the cd tray ejected, as I also keep my key-delay on a second or so.
Additionally, I put my iBook in my backpack many times during the day, every day. Never once have I accidentaly hit the eject button, because of it's position on the side of the machine and it's submersion relative to the rest of the skin. What's more, I can't see this being a problem since anything hitting the button would have to be on it in the first place, thus holding the tray in the machine. Nonetheless I acknowledge that this happens. Why can't you acknowledge that my experience does?

The question before us then is, which is more common?
One such as yourself would probably try and purport that since Apple has removed the hardware eject key, that is conclusive and irrefutable evidence that that problem is the greater.
I refute this by saying:
1) It seems much more likely that Apple has chosen -- because they always do, as has been seen many times in the past -- form considerations of functional ones. I don't find it difficult to accept that the "accidental ejection" story is an excuse for Ives and Jobs to remove this blemish from the casing, in favor of an "elegant" and reductionist solution, especially since this makes better use of the F-keys to boot.
2) Since this is a new method, there has been no time for complaints such as the ones that supposedly prompted this change in the first place to accumulate. We will therefore have to wait and see which proves to be a worse alternative for the customer: on-case eject button, or F-key.

I suspect that even though Apple will receive much more flak and many more complaints over this new design "innovation", such feedback will be deemed negligable, and -- in light of Apple's hardware design philosophy (see #1) -- they will continue to adopt this flaw, perhaps even across their desktop line.

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you are not your signature

[geek77]

I hope my "learn how to type" comment didn't set that one off. It's a joke, lighten up.

[JLannoo]

Originally posted by geek77:
I hope my "learn how to type" comment didn't set that one off. It's a joke, lighten up.

Well I dont think he was talking about you,However...

On message boards I always find it useful to use a Emoticon like the razz one or JK (just kidding) when joking around. Sometimes its hard to read if someone is serious or not. Reading your post with out the above makes you come off as a Smart@ss IMO. No biggie though

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-JLannoo
TiVo Zealot

G4 Cube 450
448MB RAGE 128 Pro

Athlon ThunderBird 800
256MB GeForce 2 GTS

[This message has been edited by JLannoo (edited 05-08-2001).]

[Gametes]

Nah that was ok. You get used to that kind of "playful flaming" after your first few days on the fora.
It was your mom and therapy I was referencing to in the first paragraph, not you. I got used to their kind a long time ago.
The rest was just me going on with business as usual .

[RoofusPennymore]

Originally posted by Gametes:
...Additionally, I put my iBook in my backpack many times during the day, every day. Never once have I accidentaly hit the eject button...

Me too and Me either. But I can see the issue that someone might have. I have accidently ejected PC cards and stuff from the media bays.

Originally posted by Gametes:
...It seems much more likely that Apple has chosen -- because they always do, as has been seen many times in the past -- form considerations of functional ones. I don't find it difficult to accept that the "accidental ejection" story is an excuse for Ives and Jobs to remove this blemish from the casing, in favor of an "elegant" and reductionist solution, especially since this makes better use of the F-keys to boot...

I dunno abou that. You would think that they would have put in a slot loader if that was the case. More likely it was a cost savings thing, lot easier to use the buttons that are already on the keyboard. Look at the transition from the Wallstreet to the Lombard.

Originally posted by rjsweb:
Forgive my ignorance... I don't have a Mac yet but I'm planning on buying an iBook as soon as my local reseller gets one in.

On a PC running Windows 2000 (I hate Windows, but that is beside the point), you can right-click on the drive, and a little menu pops down. In the menu is an item that says "Eject". You click on it, and the drive slides open, without pressing the button on the front or pressing the F12 key.

Will the Mac do this? In either 9.1 or X? If it would, the lid could be closed and you could eject the CD without opening it up and hitting the F12 key. I know Apple wanted to simplify the design, but it seems to me a little tiny eject button wouldn't have messed up the look at all.

haha poor windows users

command -y or command-e its that simple

[RoofusPennymore]

Originally posted by your mom:
haha poor windows users

command -y or command-e its that simple

Only works if there is a disk in the drive. For poor mac users, they have to press a button. Where as poor windows users always have the drive showing.

Let me clarify some stuff. You have to option of setting fn+F key or F key alone to eject CDROM. You can set fn+F12 to eject you CDROM. Pressing F12 alone would not eject CDROM. Your problem solved!

Second issue: can't eject cdrom when your iBook is close. Since you can't type on the keyboard when your iBook is close, you would need an external keyboard. Get an Apple Pro keyboard with eject button. Problem solved!

Any other realistic problems?

--Kit

[geek77]

Reading your post with out the above makes you come off as a Smart@ss

I guess it worked then

From what I've heard the f12 key has to be held down a LONG time. So long that it is annoying, but that was only one person's description of it. I guess we'll have to wait and see...

[Gametes]

Oh good, Fn+F12. That's much better than the solution I had in mind.

[RoofusPennymore]

Originally posted by Kit2:
Second issue: can't eject cdrom when your iBook is close. Since you can't type on the keyboard when your iBook is close, you would need an external keyboard. Get an Apple Pro keyboard with eject button. Problem solved!

The Pro keyboard doesn't have a Power button. You could get another brand with a power button, assuming that F12 would still work as an eject key.

[This message has been edited by RoofusPennymore (edited 05-08-2001).]

[skeedog98]

Ok, I am getting lost in this conversation. Possibly I am experiencing some mental burnout from exams.
If one is using the iBook closed then an external keyboard I figure would be in use, and the Pro Keyboard has an eject button that could possibly work, I don't know since I have never used the Pro keyboard with the new iBook.
What has me really lost is if the iBook is being used closed, I figure it is hooke up to an external monitor and keyboard/mouse. What ever happened to drag the CD to the trash? Or the Eject command in the special menu? I don't see the problem here.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by RoofusPennymore:
The Pro keyboard doesn't have a Power button. You could get another brand with a power button, assuming that F12 would still work as an eject key.

Yes it does.
Hit CONTROL and EJECT when the computer is on.


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Gametes, this is the greatest post I have ever read...I find it rather unnerving that you actually kept count

[OverclockedHomoSapien]

The fact remains that, moron or not, I sometimes hit the F12 key when intending to delete.

Uhhh, no. The fact remains that you have to press and hold the f12 key for several seconds for the CD tray to open. Even if you were a moron, it would be very, very unlikely that you could "accidently" open the cd tray while typing. Do you normally hit random keys and hold them down for several seconds while in the midst of typing?

What is it with you people? It's like no matter how good of a product Apple releases, you just HAVE to find something to bitch about. Who gives a sh!t about holding down a function key to eject a disk? How often do you switch disks on an iBook? WHAT IS THE PROBLEM HERE?!?!?!

[zeltrio]

Originally posted by RoofusPennymore:
I dunno abou that. You would think that they would have put in a slot loader if that was the case. More likely it was a cost savings thing, lot easier to use the buttons that are already on the keyboard. Look at the transition from the Wallstreet to the Lombard.

I'm glad apple didn't put a 'slot loader' cdrom in the new iBook..no matter what the reason was. There are many new 'innovations' lately with CD-ROM designs. Most are for kiddy stuff or AOL(blah) but some business users are using the smaller rectangular shaped ones as business cards and stuff. I don't think the 'slot loader' ones can take them. Slot loading is cool...but.....y'know! just like the first iMac mouse..good aesthetics isn't always the better choice ;o)

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"Fight and fear not for the gates of paradise lie under the shade of the sword!"

[Gametes]

OverClocked, I am not one of those unwashed masses reaching for something to bitch about. I like the new model, and sympathise with your instinct to defend what is good from irrational attacks.

It isn't my intention for this to come across as some big huge flaw that ought to warrant a "no one buying iBooks ever!", "Macs sux!" kind of thing. I want this treated as it is: a small, but annoying, mistake in Apple's design.

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you are not your signature

[Bugs Bunny]

I know it's not related to the iBook, but using the F12 key to eject CD's on my Ti is actually second nature now. Having owned 4 other PowerBooks with the tray loader, I found it somewhat annoying to try to depress that little button on the DVD/CD drive to open the drive. And having owned the Ti for 3 months now, I have yet to hit and hold down the F12 key while typing I thinks it's more convenient to just press the F12 key, probably because I'm lazy I was somewhat skeptical about the slot loading CD drive, but I find it to be better than a tray hanging off the side. Sorry, back to the PowerBook forum I go.

[itai195]

Not to play devil's advocate or anything but... on my TiPB at least I've hit the F12 key to accidentally eject a disk many times. Maybe my fingers just haven't accepted the switch from BACKSPACE to DELETE yet, having just come over from the Windows world... You don't have to hold F12 down long at all in order to eject a disk. In fact, I can just quickly tap it with a finger and the disk ejects. Oddly, I don't remember it happening to me so much when I was using OS 9 but it seems I accidentally eject disks all the time in OS X... maybe the delay they're using is decreased. I don't consider this a design flaw or anything... it can be annoying at times but I live with it personally, nothing is perfect.

Originally posted by Gametes:
<STRONG># of times I've accidentally hit the F12 key: 893
# of times I've accidentally hit the hardware eject key: 0

Also, I think the implementation of two apple keys instead of two option keys is a good idea, but the enter key should have stayed on the left. Now I am going to constantly hit Apple when I mean enter. It is good right next to the space bar.

</STRONG>

I think you're right in both points. Setting the F12 to the eject is a mistake but with the new iBook the few seconds needed to open the drive help. The problem exists in my Pismo though; it immediately opens when the F12 key is pressed.

The enter key should be next to the space bar. Enter should be there for quick hits (for instant message conversations, etc.) and the apple key is needed on both sides. The enter can be hit in a second but the apple on the right side is there for those that need to use a key combination with one hand. You can use either side and not need a huge hand.

Good observations. I agree.

[Leaping Gnome]

Wow, old thread

I still don't understand how somebody can accidentally push the F12 key and hold it for 2 seconds. I have never had this problem. OTOH, I would prefer to have a separate button for it because I don't like having to wait 2 seconds for the thing to eject.

As for the closed iBook discussion, how do you close it and not have it go to sleep? Does having a VGA connector attached keep it awake? Just wondering - since I've never tried it myself.

I dislike slot loading. Not all my CDs (ie. 3" CD singles) will work with them.

Oh, and I wish there was in addition to the standard delete key, there was also a separate forward delete key.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by &lt;Eug&gt;:
<STRONG>
As for the closed iBook discussion, how do you close it and not have it go to sleep? Does having a VGA connector attached keep it awake? Just wondering - since I've never tried it myself.
</STRONG>

With OSX and 9.2.1 you cannot close the lid and have it stay awake. With 9.1 you could but Apple saw that too much heat was coming from the unit into the screen so they took that feature out.

[mudzilla]

Originally posted by jmatero
:
<STRONG>Yes, in both 9.1 and osx you hold the control key down and click and the option will pop up to eject the disk.

(control click - mainly in os9.1 - is like right-clicking on a pc)</STRONG>

while you've all chimed in with answer like this, his problem isn't getting a disk out... its ejecting the cd tray if there is no cd in the drive!. I can see that being a bit tricky with the lid shut hey?

but didn't Apple have a tech info about not using them with the lid shut?

[jokell82]

Originally posted by &lt;Eug&gt;:
<STRONG>I still don't understand how somebody can accidentally push the F12 key and hold it for 2 seconds. I have never had this problem. OTOH, I would prefer to have a separate button for it because I don't like having to wait 2 seconds for the thing to eject.
</STRONG>

You don't have to hold it for two seconds. I just tried it out on my iBook 500 DVD in OS 10.1.1 and all you have to do is tap it. I've done this numerous times as well, and it is kind of annoying, but I don't consider it a major design flaw.

[Eug]

Originally posted by jokell82:
<STRONG>

You don't have to hold it for two seconds. I just tried it out on my iBook 500 DVD in OS 10.1.1 and all you have to do is tap it. I've done this numerous times as well, and it is kind of annoying, but I don't consider it a major design flaw.</STRONG>

OK, not 2 seconds, but you still have to press and hold. Merely tapping it will not open it, at least on my iBook 600.

[Gametes]

Well now that they've instituted this across the board, it's even more of a problem. I don't have to hold it at all on my blueberry iBook for the CD to eject. Not major, but an annoyance with no gain.

[anim8ing]

well, I guess i'll put my 2 cents in. I just "tapped" the F12 key and nothing happened, so it must be on the older iBook, and the older PB. I have yet to hit the F12 while typing on the book, but the one thing i DID notice is that the left side of the keyboard seems to push in a little bit when I type, and no I am not mashing the keys down. I think that If there was an airport card installed, this would help a bit. If that is the case and the airport card would help stiffen (mind the spelling) the keyboard why didn't apple put in a dummy card (i.e. plastic) for those of us that don't have airport. This may not be the case, and the airport card may not stiffen the keyboard. Anyway, i'm rambling now. Take care.


Anim8r

[Chimpmaster]

I have an indigo ibook, and I can verify that in osx, tapping the f12 does make the cd drive eject.

I seem to do it all the time. Its a pain in the ass, but kind of funny to in a way.

Sometimes when I put my ibook to sleep it will pop out inside my bag, and then it wont let me reclose the damn thing until i wake it from sleep.

My ibook is such a baby sometimes, but I love her!

[loz_kendall]

Not that I like to endorse this type of bickering amongst users of great machines but after reading your replies I tried the eject "tap" test myself.

When I tap the eject (F12) button on the iBook in OS 10.1.0 nothing happens. But, when I tap the F12 key on my external keyboard (Blueberry one from before Pro keyboards) it opens every time. Note: F12 on my external keyboard is not actually marked as an eject button.

I'm not saying that everyone who says theirs opens when tapping F12 on in built keyboard is lying. I'm just saying that there does seem to be a great discrepency between systems and software among the replies here alone. I think that is a much bigger find and far greater issue than the eject phenomenon itself.

How many other features work on your machine but not on mine (and visa versa)?

[Chimpmaster]

Keep in mind that the function keys are hotkeys which can be set to perform various tasks. It just so happens that f12 is by default eject in osx.

On a new ibook or powerbook, it is a critical key because there is no manual eject button.

I assume that is why it translates over to older model ibooks running osx. I havent tried redefining the key. Maybe i should.....

Just my opinion. I think Apple did this because they're planning to eventually put a slot-loader in the current iBook case. Also it keeps the keys the same as the ones on the Ti, for whatever thats worth

[CubeWannaB]

Originally posted by RoofusPennymore
:
<STRONG>I just realized that this could be a problem for those of us who use want to use it with the lid closed (external monitor). If we don't already have a CD in the tray then we will have to upen the lid to get the tray to eject.</STRONG>

This is stupid: all you need is an external keyboard with an F12 key!

[CubeWannaB]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
:
<STRONG>

Yes it does.
Hit CONTROL and EJECT when the computer is on.


</STRONG>

Got a trick like that to make my MS Natural KB have a power button?

This post is on par with:

''All i did was smack a crow bar into my ibook screen and it broke''

[TonyRado]

After reading this thread (which apparently started back in May) I feel I have earned the right to add my two cents:

1st cent: Dude you picked a horrible 1,000th post! Was this your first post as a moderator or something? - I guess that'll teach ya
2nd cent: I thought that the F12 key on my Ti was broke this whole time b/c having "accidentally" hit it about a 2 x's a week for the last 9 months, the damn disk never ejected! Ok, have been running OS9. I am also away from home on a PC, w/ a dead battery & no external ps on my Ti, so I can't test mine in 10.1, but I'm still a little skeptical that a mis-que on the F12 is going to spit the disk out.

[IUJHJSDHE]

I agree that the <font color = blue> F12 </font> key thing is a bitch.

But I would hate to have the enter key on the left!!
That would Suck!