[Hash]

Quote TP (unregisered):

"Take this for what its worth:

I was just speaking to my local Apple reseller, inquiring about the HP 960cxi - I am tired of waiting for Epson to come out with drivers for my Photo 870. After I told him that I had an 870 and was running X, he said the drivers should be available with 10.1 - which he claimed will be available 0n 7/15.

I asked how sure he was on that info, and he claimed it was in their order system (10.1, that is), and said that he hoped it would be in-store on the 15th. "

wow

[Craig R. Arko]

Well, now that would be nice wouldn't it? That would mean it gets released to manufacturing in, what, about 2 weeks. That would agree with what people are saying about 9.2, as well.

This would be a reasonable explanation for the lack of 10.0.4, etc.

Can anybody find a second loose-lipped dealer to confirm this?

[RAILhead]

This is more disinformation, and chances are -- it's totally made up.

1) There is no reason to believe Apple will be repackaging "OS X 10.1" and shiping it out to resellers as though it's a new product. It's FAR to early in OS X's life to start doing that.

2) "10.1" is still a rumor, and there's no hard evidence that it will or will not surface on or around MWNY in July. "10.1" is pure speculation and want-ware.

3) All updates will be downloadable, save major milestone releases (which will require a purchase fee). "10.1" IS NOT going to be a milestone release simply because, again, it's FAR too early in the game for that.

You'll (we'll) all be better off if we just sit tight and wait to see what Stevie has up his sleeve. *IF* something gets announced, it will make it's debut during the MWNY Keynote address -- not a couple of days before.

My 2 cents...

Maury

[idjeff]

Severed Hand of Skywalker, I believe that you might have something to say.............

[NeilCharter]

Bollocks

That's all I have to say

[madra [again!]]

want-ware

like it!

[Drizzt]

3) All updates will be downloadable, save major milestone releases (which will require a purchase fee). "10.1" IS NOT going to be a milestone release simply because, again, it's FAR too early in the game for that.

Well.. we do have 9.1 boxes on the shelves. How do I know that, on of my friend bought a pack of it for where he is working.

I believe if there is 10.1, we will have a downloadable version and a CD version (that will be 10.0 + 10.1 update).

MacOS X Server is 10.0 + 10.0.2 update + 10.0.2 Server update + 10.0.3 update + server pakages, so why not a 10.0 + 10.1 update?

my 2 cents

Originally posted by RAILhead:
<STRONG>This is more disinformation, and chances are -- it's totally made up.
</STRONG>

Yeah, *you* should be talking about disinformation and totally made up crap?

<STRONG>
1) There is no reason to believe Apple will be repackaging "OS X 10.1" and shiping it out to resellers as though it's a new product. It's FAR to early in OS X's life to start doing that.

</STRONG>

Yet that is *exactly* what is going to happen. Do you think Apple wants people who just buy OS X to have to spend 8 hours online updating their system right after they install it? No. There will be 3 updated discs: 10.1, dev tools, 9.2. Bank on it.

<STRONG>

2) "10.1" is still a rumor, and there's no hard evidence that it will or will not surface on or around MWNY in July. "10.1" is pure speculation and want-ware.

3) All updates will be downloadable, save major milestone releases (which will require a purchase fee). "10.1" IS NOT going to be a milestone release simply because, again, it's FAR too early in the game for that.
</STRONG>

Apple may make the update downloadable, but it will be large enough to put a lot of people off. Look at the developer disk for an example. They will offer a upgrade to registered users for a nominal fee (like $19.99) for the three new discs.

There is a clear differentiation between the bugfix releases (4k78 and the rest of the 4xxx builds) and the Puma (5xxx) builds.

<STRONG>

You'll (we'll) all be better off if we just sit tight and wait to see what Stevie has up his sleeve. *IF* something gets announced, it will make it's debut during the MWNY Keynote address -- not a couple of days before.
</STRONG>

It wouldn't surprise me if it made it to stores before the keynote, but it won't be for sale until afterwards. Just like the retail release. There is no Santa Jobs who comes 'round at midnight dropping off new versions of the operating system the night before he delivers a keynote.

Just to add fuel to the fire...

According to the naked mole rat Puma's feature set was supposed to be frozen on June 1 and user interface features frozen by June 8 in order for the update to be completed by Macworld next month...

[edddeduck]

If 10.1 is going to be released then.....

They will *not* ship 10.0 any more they will ship 10.1 so...

It could be true that 10.1 will be avail to buy...

You have to think of the people who are waiting for 10.1they have not bought X yet. All the people at the moment who are waiting will not want to have to download an update.....

They will buy 10.1...

BUT I still could be wrong its not impossible so lets wait and see....

cheers Edd

[mumble]

Originally posted by RAILhead:
<STRONG>This is more disinformation, and chances are -- it's totally made up.</STRONG>

Well I guess you're the expert there

<STRONG>1) There is no reason to believe Apple will be repackaging "OS X 10.1" and shiping it out to resellers as though it's a new product. It's FAR to early in OS X's life to start doing that.</STRONG>

There are clear indications on the box that Apple will need to at least revise the current packaging. How do you suppose resellers will identify it, unless as a new product - as is the case with the recent 2nd tier release?

<STRONG>2) "10.1" is still a rumor, and there's no hard evidence that it will or will not surface on or around MWNY in July. "10.1" is pure speculation and want-ware.</STRONG>

Nope, although Apple hasn't actually stated a release date, 10.1 is no longer just a rumour and there have been some very clear indications that it is frozen or extremely close to frozen and will be released soon - I'm not talking about rumour sites, leaked builds, or special friends in high places here

<STRONG>3) All updates will be downloadable, save major milestone releases (which will require a purchase fee). "10.1" IS NOT going to be a milestone release simply because, again, it's FAR too early in the game for that.</STRONG>

I don't know what woolly definition of "milestone" you are referring to, but in Apple terms 10.1 is definitely a milestone, but this has nothing to do with upgrade fees.

[RAILhead]

Well I guess you're the expert there

I think you're getting me confused with the kids at Apple Onlooker! The only info I've posted that hasn't come into fruition as originally thought, is the release of the 10.0.4 and the Pro Mouse II -- both of which moved well beyond Apple's initial plans for release. So yeah, I screwed up those two items and I've stood up and admitted it, long, long ago.

There are clear indications on the box that Apple will need to at least revise the current packaging. How do you suppose resellers will identify it, unless as a new product - as is the case with the recent 2nd tier release?

My wording didn't come through as I intended on the original comment -- sorry for the confusion. What I was getting at, was that I doubt we will see the same preparation for stocking like we saw with OS X 10.0 or OS 9. Sure, if you go buy "OS 9" now, you'll be getting OS 9.1 -- but you didn't see any fanfare about resellers stocking the new version, did you? The resellers just stocked the shelves with the new version. The lack of fanfare and hullabaloo was what I was getting at -- so calling up every Apple reseller *may* not be the best way to get info regarding the next update.

Nope, although Apple hasn't actually stated a release date, 10.1 is no longer just a rumour and there have been some very clear indications that it is frozen or extremely close to frozen and will be released soon - I'm not talking about rumour sites, leaked builds, or special friends in high places here

My first thought is: "So *I* don't have any real sources and *I* dont have any inside info, but this guy 'mumble' actually does. Okay, I'm not going to listen to anything anyone says but 'mumble.'"

This was AppleOnlooker's problem: they acted like getting "inside info" was a game and a way to build status. It's also what made them look foolish. I say, if you heard something you think is trustworthy, post it. Your attitude in presentation -- as well as your track record -- will help others decide if you really know anything.

But I digress... You're right -- 10.1 *itself* isn't a rumor (it will surface eventually), but the release of 10.1 at MWNY *IS* a rumor. Crap, I'd like it as much as the next guy -- but we don't know for sure. Hence my stating: "there's no hard evidence that it will or will not surface on or around MWNY in July. '10.1' is pure speculation and want-ware."

10.1 at MWNY is speculation. It would be great though, but let's no get our hopes up lest we be disappointed...

I don't know what woolly definition of "milestone" you are referring to, but in Apple terms 10.1 is definitely a milestone, but this has nothing to do with upgrade fees.

A milestone in development is a point that represents a change in course or a turning point in the direction taken originally. OS 7.6 was a milestone release. OS 8 and then 8.5 were milestones, as well as OS 9. These OS updates contained major shifts in the OS's function and features.

OS X 10.1, however, will be the culmination of playing catch-up in the areas the original release fell short -- but there will be no change in course due to these changes. Hence, 10.1 won't be a milestone release and it will, initially, be availabe via download and not strictly available for purchase like the OS 8, 8.5, 9, and 10 releases were. Obviously, if you order "OS X" the day after 10.1, 10.2 or 10.6 (hypothetically), you'll be getting a CD with the latest major release version -- this is a no brainer -- but we won't be downloading any major milestone releases.

So, I have to disagree with you: OS X 10.1 won't be a milestone in Apple's development terms. It may be a milestone for all of us users (fraggin Disc Burner in OS X!!!) simply because we will finally (hopefully) get the features we've been waiting on -- but it won't be a milestone from the technical standpoint.

[ 06-18-2001: Message edited by: RAILhead ]

[Mr_Solar_Wind]

Originally posted by RAILhead:
<STRONG>
1) There is no reason to believe Apple will be repackaging "OS X 10.1" and shiping it out to resellers as though it's a new product. It's FAR to early in OS X's life to start doing that.
Maury</STRONG>

Um, I don't know what you've been smoking but if you go to your local Mac reseller right now and purchase Mac OS X, you'll notice that the CD contains a copy of 10.0.3-- even though the update was released only 2 months after the original product shipped. And guess how much time will have elapsed between the release of 10.0.3 and MWNY?

About 2 months.

[Oneota]

Originally posted by &lt;jethro&gt;:
<STRONG>
Apple may make the update downloadable, but it will be large enough to put a lot of people off. Look at the developer disk for an example. They will offer a upgrade to registered users for a nominal fee (like $19.99) for the three new discs.

There is a clear differentiation between the bugfix releases (4k78 and the rest of the 4xxx builds) and the Puma (5xxx) builds.</STRONG>

Aren't you forgetting the update coupons that came in the box w/OS X? Why would Apple include them if they had no intention of providing at least one or two point releases between paying upgrades? 10.0.1 and 10.0.3 aren't it, since we had some folks who just bought X last week, and they got 10.0.0.

10.1 will be freely downloadable, and/or available for nothing (except for a shipping fee, which will likely be less than the $20 you quoted) on CD to those who bought 10.0.0.

Maury, why do you keep on mentioning Apple OnLooker? It's like your obsessed with it or something .

[JB72]

If they make any real milestone features over 10.0x, they're going to want to make a CD version of that to ship with new Macs, especially if the Summer 2001 Macs require new code not in 10.03. Of course, that doesn't mean they'll immediately have it packaged and ducumented for a seperate purchase. No biggie, I'm sure it will be on their servers by 7/17. It can't be that big a d/l. After all, how much progress could they have made, considering what little improvements they've made since 3/24.

[NeilCharter]

It makes sense that Apple will update the CD's with the most up to date version. The point that no-one will want to run a number of updates to get to the shipping version is valid.

The thing is when will 10.1 happen? Who knows. All this talk of 10.0.4 and nothing happened. Apple updated the system so it didn't run so slow that it seriously pissed everyone off. My guess is that nothing will happen till MWNY. A bummer, but that's how it goes.

Neil

[seb2]

wow, sounds like a busy week...

7/14 -- declaration of world peace
7/16 -- abolition of all taxes world wide

i can't tell you how often my reseller had my pb g4 in is order system.
do i really have to go on with the story?

[mumble]

Originally posted by RAILhead:
<STRONG>I think you're getting me confused with the kids at Apple Onlooker!</STRONG>

hmm, let's see, they posted stuff about Update 4 that turned out not to be true, and they admitted it; while you on the other hand posted stuff about Update 4 that turned out not to be true, glossed over it, and proceeded to gripe about them here _and_ on their own site, and know you've taken to insulting them at every opportunity. Grow up.

<STRONG>The only info I've posted that hasn't come into fruition as originally thought, is the release of the 10.0.4 and the Pro Mouse II -- both of which moved well beyond Apple's initial plans for release. So yeah, I screwed up those two items and I've stood up and admitted it, long, long ago.</STRONG>

Friday, May 4, 2001 "What a surprise I received when two people (and I think they�re the same person) said that the Mac OS�s Keychain application does the same thing as PasswordMaster! What a load! If the Keychain could do what PasswordMaster does, I never would have made it. Oh well, you�ve gotta love people like �pmag� and �MacUser772� � you have to wonder what color the sky is in their world�" - total nonsense, I suggest you read up on the Keychain Manager API.

Saturday, May 12, 2001 "This really isn�t �breaking news,� but my sources have told me that we�re supposed to get another OS X update next week, as early as Wednesday. This update will feature the items not included with the 10.0.3 update (since that one was rushed out to fix a majorly annoying bug) like Finder windows refreshing content properly, moving to item when its name is typed, etc."

and

Thursday, May 24, 2001 "OS X 10.0.4 was pulled because there were additional Finder improvements the team wanted to implement to really get the Finder �up to speed� as it should be. Minor tweaks and optimizations were (are) being made for things like faster column view drawing, moving to the item selected by a keystroke, proper content updating in folders, etc." - strange then that the even leaked 4Q4 (which postdates these comments) doesn't appear (from the BOM, as posted in this forum) to include any changes to the Finder, isn't it?

<STRONG>Sure, if you go buy "OS 9" now, you'll be getting OS 9.1 -- but you didn't see any fanfare about resellers stocking the new version, did you? The resellers just stocked the shelves with the new version. The lack of fanfare and hullabaloo was what I was getting at -- so calling up every Apple reseller *may* not be the best way to get info regarding the next update.</STRONG>

9.1 was hardly a major release, nevertheless I still expect it had a new product code, as would any reboxed X version, which would of necessity need to be known to resellers prior to release.

<STRONG>My first thought is: "So *I* don't have any real sources and *I* dont have any inside info, but this guy 'mumble' actually does. Okay, I'm not going to listen to anything anyone says but 'mumble.'"</STRONG>

Nope, I don't know or care whether your sources are real or imagined, and I state no opinion either way, nor do I claim to have special inside sources, the information is plain and public for all to see somewhere on 17/8.

<STRONG>This was AppleOnlooker's problem: they acted like getting "inside info" was a game and a way to build status. It's also what made them look foolish.</STRONG>

Here we go again. This is your problem too.

<STRONG>I say, if you heard something you think is trustworthy, post it. Your attitude in presentation -- as well as your track record -- will help others decide if you really know anything.</STRONG>

I don't think it's trustworthy I know it's true. You're the one who claims inside sources, surely they must know if whether 10.1 is imminent?

<STRONG>10.1 at MWNY is speculation. It would be great though, but let's no get our hopes up lest we be disappointed...</STRONG>

...again.

<STRONG>A milestone in development is a point that represents a change in course or a turning point in the direction taken originally. OS 7.6 was a milestone release. OS 8 and then 8.5 were milestones, as well as OS 9. These OS updates contained major shifts in the OS's function and features.</STRONG>

7.6 was a cash generator, while 8.6 was a significant architecture change - built-in PMT&SMP, for free.

<STRONG>So, I have to disagree with you: OS X 10.1 won't be a milestone in Apple's development terms.</STRONG>

If 10.1 is Puma, then it's an Apple milestone, just like Titan, Atlas, Beaker, Bunsen, Gonzo, Kodiak, Cheetah, and Bagheera, simple as that.

[juanvaldes]

am I the only one who remembers jobs saying that we will have a DVD player in X by the end of spring? Well by my calender he has 3 days left...

[macmicke]

I do not understand why mumble uses such harsh language... Maybe we should rename MacNN forums to MacNN flame wars....

[JB72]

Originally posted by NeilCharter:
<STRONG>The thing is when will 10.1 happen? Who knows.</STRONG>

I'm starting to agree. I have felt that 10.1 would be a MWNY release, but I'm starting to doubt it. If they do release an update as 10.1, I suspect many people will feel that it should have a lesser version number (10.05?) I'm not even sure we'll see an update before MWNY. If it's big, it might just be shown there, and released soon after.

On the bright side, they may be concentrating on something big, and foregoing the smaller updates until just before MWNY. Who knows. I just hope they do it right and kill Classic once and for all.

[Group51]

Originally posted by JB72:
<STRONG>I just hope they do it right and kill Classic once and for all.</STRONG>

Kill Classic? I don't want them to kill it, just make it optional. How else am I going to access the Star Trek Encyclopedia CD-ROM, or my other multimedia CDs?

[malvolio]

Interesting side note - July 15 is (was?) Saint Swithin's Day (I'm not up on who is or is not an official saint any more). And an old expression meaning something would *never* happen was: "It'll happen next St. Swithin's Day."

[naden]

Well something just came to my mind ...

No one has mentioned NECC - the education conference for which Steve Jobs is keynoting.

National Educational Computing Conference (NECC)
June 25-27 at McCormick Place, Chicago, IL
Keynote address by Steve Jobs
http://www.neccsite.org

Surely a new iMac would go down a treat there. Bring on the Hypercolour iMac. Now that's an idea.

But June 25-27 is my date for fun.

-- Naden
"Whip it. Whip it good"

[OoklaTheMok]

the information is plain and public for all to see somewhere on 17/8.

Err...what's "17/8" supposed to mean?

[MacBiXo]

10.1 in july 15?

It's pure speculation!

Friday, May 4, 2001 "What a surprise I received when two people (and I think they�re the same person) said that the Mac OS�s Keychain application does the same thing... blah blah blah...

May 4, 2001?
Hmm get over it?

[Gregory]

Mac OS 9.2 is getting close. There already is a 10.03 which is not the same as the 10.03 update we use. The 9.1 download updater was crap while the full install didn't have any of the issues and bugs - even when a clean 9.0 was updated to 9.0.4. Messy.

You need a CD to use the updated Disk Utility (1.0).

The installer on the 10.0 is likely improved and as to July... I think Apple feed the idea that there would be such an update.

Developers are climbing the walls with differences in assembly code, kernel panics, memory problem in IOKit drivers, documentation and more.

10% of households may be lucky enough to have DSL, for the rest, 100MB downloads are out of the question.

With 9.2, 10.1, and new Dev Tools, I'd be happy to pay $30 for a new set of CDs...

jethro, did you smoke the carpet ?

The 10.1 is a bug fix release ! Till 10.9, it will just be fix releases.

There are so many bugs in Mac OS X currently that it's going to keep Apple busy for a year.

Don't expect any release of new software technology during this year...

[mumble]

Originally posted by OoklaTheMok:
<STRONG>Err...what's "17/8" supposed to mean?</STRONG>

Apple holds all the addresses 17.0.0.0 - 17.255.255.255, this is a Class A network, aka a /8 since only the first 8 bits specify the network, hence 17/8 is the whole *.apple.com hierarchy.

[foobars]

Originally posted by &lt;nobody for anyone&gt;:
<STRONG>jethro, did you smoke the carpet ?

The 10.1 is a bug fix release ! Till 10.9, it will just be fix releases.
</STRONG>

Hoho! Sarcasm guys! Get it?

Look 10.0.x releases are specifically bug fixes. "Point" releases (10.x) generally add new features. Thats the convention.

<STRONG>

There are so many bugs in Mac OS X currently that it's going to keep Apple busy for a year.
</STRONG>

Like what?

<STRONG>

Don't expect any release of new software technology during this year...</STRONG>

What does that even mean? No new features? Sorry but OSX has a lot of updates coming it's way in the next SIX months and you can bet on hundreds of new features...

[Richard Clark]

10.1 will be a milestone for Apple.

It has to be. The most obvious is the FULL coming out of OS X. If Apple doesn't kick start this puppy it'll be dead in a matter of a year.

Marketing is going to need to be very bold.

10.1 will need to differentiate itself from X. The public knows the misgivings, problems and lack of options/interface etc.

Now, I realize what I just wrote but in all reality will the packaging change? I doubt it. That will be subtle like they did with 10.0.3.

10.1 will be needed to show validity and vast improvement. If this is not done there will be a lack of confidence from the public which could impact X emensly.

[DannyVTim]

Originally posted by Gregory:
<STRONG>There already is a 10.03 which is not the same as the 10.03 update we use. ...</STRONG>

How do you substanciate this claim?

<STRONG> The 9.1 download updater was crap while the full install didn't have any of the issues and bugs - even when a clean 9.0 was updated to 9.0.4. Messy. ...</STRONG>

Again, how do you substantiate this claim

<STRONG> The installer on the 10.0 is likely improved and as to July... I think Apple feed the idea that there would be such an update. ...</STRONG>

No they didn't.

<STRONG> ... Developers are climbing the walls with differences in assembly code, kernel panics, memory problem in IOKit drivers, documentation and more. ...</STRONG>

Climbng the walls is an over statement. I think all of this is quite normal so far. What do you mean by differences in assembly code?

[spike]

jethro: are you a jethro tull fan?

[SpeedRacer]

10.1 in the middle of July? Not unless Apple makes some rather major changes to its standard OS development cycle. Apple traditionally delivers a "point update" every 6 mo's, a major overhaul update every 12 mo's. Given a 10.0 release in late March, we would not expect to see 10.1 coming out till around September.

I think we're a lot closer to 9.2 than 10.1.

Speed

Lets put it this way, MacOS 9.2 is at the end of the beta testing as we all know from the reports everywhere and the images floating around hotline, where as I know, from personal experance, that 10.1 is due to start testing within the next few months, and with something like MacOS X, it isnt going to be a quick test. Maby they wont call it MacOS 10.1, maby it will be 10.2, but if it is big enough to do a large scale test then its going to be a big one.

Mafoo

[DannyVTim]

Originally posted by &lt;Mafoo&gt;:
<STRONG>Lets put it this way, MacOS 9.2 is at the end of the beta testing as we all know from the reports everywhere and the images floating around hotline, where as I know, from personal experance, that 10.1 is due to start testing within the next few months, and with something like MacOS X, it isnt going to be a quick test. Maby they wont call it MacOS 10.1, maby it will be 10.2, but if it is big enough to do a large scale test then its going to be a big one.

Mafoo</STRONG>

Endless conjecture and your reaching pretty badly too!

[foobars]

Originally posted by DannyVTim:
<STRONG>Endless conjecture and your reaching pretty badly too!</STRONG>

No actually he's right, 10.1 is huge and it's won't be a small test. 9.2 has been in development for nearly a year. Apple is very methodical with point releases and there's no reason to believe they'd change thier ways. It think his is a logical point.

Then again, X and 9 are at the opposite ends of the development spectrum. 9.2 is going to be the last point release for 9 (most likely) and 10.1 will be the first for X.

My guess is we see some early 10.1 builds before the end of the month. 10.1 WILL be at MWNY.

[blah]

Originally posted by spike:
<STRONG>jethro: are you a jethro tull fan?</STRONG>

spike: are you a spike jonze fan?

[gralem]

Why would Apple release 10.1 on 15 July, when OS 11.5 is slated to be released on 1 July? (This is according to a palm reader who used to live next door to a kid who grew up and bought a Macintosh computer).

---gralem

Some of you are setting yourselves up for a major disappointment. 10.1 will not be released at MacWorld. Look for it later in the year, possibly September or October.

[Vader's Robotic Stump]

Originally posted by foobars:
<STRONG>9.2 is going to be the last point release for 9 (most likely) and 10.1 will be the first for X.
</STRONG>

9.3 is already in the planning stage.

[spike]

Originally posted by blah:
<STRONG>

spike: are you a spike jonze fan?</STRONG>

no...

[frawgz]

Originally posted by malvolio:
<STRONG>Interesting side note - July 15 is (was?) Saint Swithin's Day (I'm not up on who is or is not an official saint any more). And an old expression meaning something would *never* happen was: "It'll happen next St. Swithin's Day." </STRONG>

"Is it St. Swithin's Day already?"
"Tis!" said Aunt Helga.

[dfbennett]

Originally posted by frawgz:
<STRONG>

"Is it St. Swithin's Day already?"
"Tis!" said Aunt Helga.</STRONG>

Wasn't there a Colonel character in his play too?

[BuonRotto]

spike is a spike lee fan.

Considering that 10.1 was likely targeted for MWNY, and the fact that no software maker in the history of the human condition has ever released software on time, apple will likely hold off on 10.1 until Seybold or so.

[Spirit_VW]

Originally posted by Vader's Robotic Stump:
<STRONG>

9.3 is already in the planning stage.</STRONG>

Ohh, you is always eating thine me choppies, Stumpy! Har! Har! Stumpy eating the choppies! Bust leg to the wall groove platter!

[dfbennett]

Originally posted by BuonRotto:
<STRONG>spike is a spike lee fan.

Considering that 10.1 was likely targeted for MWNY, and the fact that no software maker in the history of the human condition has ever released software on time, apple will likely hold off on 10.1 until Seybold or so.</STRONG>

If this is true, that's gonna be a real problem for Apple. Jobs has said that MWNY will be OS X's "coming out" party. I've been using 10.0.3 about 90% of the time and while it's usable it needs speed, software, hardware support, and a few other things. If it's not out around MWNY, Apple is gonna get reamed by the press and mac users. They've got alot of work ahead of them and I for one hope it works out well.

[BuonRotto]

I'm just saying don't be shocked if it's not ready.