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The Case Against Trump: Restocking swamp gators! (Page 9)
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Chongo
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Sep 13, 2016, 04:35 PM
 
Ok, enough is enough. Someone has to stop these people. The're not even going to eat it.

( Last edited by Chongo; Sep 14, 2016 at 09:52 PM. )
45/47
     
andi*pandi
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Sep 14, 2016, 03:47 PM
 
Trump to announce medical records on episode of Dr. Oz! He'll find out when you do! Full disclosure!

Er, sorry, Trump and Dr. Oz will just discuss general medical topics.

Meanwhile, Gary Johnson has climbed Everest, run Iron Man competitions... yeah, I think Johnson wins the fitness round.
     
OAW
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Sep 14, 2016, 05:53 PM
 
We'll see what kind of traction this gets. One thing is for sure. If one is critical of the financial dealings of The Clinton Foundation and at the same time is quite alright with the financial dealings of The Trump Organization then well .... do I really need to spell it out?

If Donald Trump is elected president, will he and his family permanently sever all connections to the Trump Organization, a sprawling business empire that has spread a secretive financial web across the world? Or will Trump instead choose to be the most conflicted president in American history, one whose business interests will constantly jeopardize the security of the United States?

Throughout this campaign, the Trump Organization, which pumps potentially hundreds of millions of dollars into the Trump family’s bank accounts each year, has been largely ignored. As a private enterprise, its businesses, partners and investors are hidden from public view, even though they are the very people who could be enriched by—or will further enrich—Trump and his family if he wins the presidency.

A close examination by Newsweek of the Trump Organization, including confidential interviews with business executives and some of its international partners, reveals an enterprise with deep ties to global financiers, foreign politicians and even criminals, although there is no evidence the Trump Organization has engaged in any illegal activities. It also reveals a web of contractual entanglements that could not be just canceled. If Trump moves into the White House and his family continues to receive any benefit from the company, during or even after his presidency, almost every foreign policy decision he makes will raise serious conflicts of interest and ethical quagmires.
The Trump Organization is not like the Bill, Hillary & Chelsea Clinton Foundation, the charitable enterprise that has been the subject of intense scrutiny about possible conflicts for the Democratic presidential nominee. There are allegations that Hillary Clinton bestowed benefits on contributors to the foundation in some sort of “pay to play” scandal when she was secretary of state, but that makes no sense because there was no “pay.” Money contributed to the foundation was publicly disclosed and went to charitable efforts, such as fighting neglected tropical diseases that infect as many as a billion people. The financials audited by PricewaterhouseCoopers, the global independent accounting company, and the foundation’s tax filings show that about 90 percent of the money it raised went to its charitable programs. (Trump surrogates have falsely claimed that it was only 10 percent and that the rest was used as a Clinton “slush fund.”) No member of the Clinton family received any cash from the foundation, nor did it finance any political campaigns. In fact, like the Clintons, almost the entire board of directors works for free.

On the other hand, the Trump family rakes in untold millions of dollars from the Trump Organization every year. Much of that comes from deals with international financiers and developers, many of whom have been tied to controversial and even illegal activities. None of Trump’s overseas contractual business relationships examined by Newsweek were revealed in his campaign’s financial filings with the Federal Election Commission, nor was the amount paid to him by his foreign partners. (The Trump campaign did not respond to a request for the names of all foreign entities in partnership or contractually tied to the Trump Organization.) Trump’s financial filings also indicate he is a shareholder or beneficiary of several overseas entities, including Excel Venture LLC in the French West Indies and Caribusiness Investments SRL, based in the Dominican Republic, one of the world’s tax havens.

Trump’s business conflicts with America’s national security interests cannot be resolved so long as he or any member of his family maintains a financial interest in the Trump Organization during a Trump administration, or even if they leave open the possibility of returning to the company later. The Trump Organization cannot be placed into a blind trust, an arrangement used by many politicians to prevent them from knowing their financial interests; the Trump family is already aware of who their overseas partners are and could easily learn about any new ones.

Many foreign governments retain close ties to and even control of companies in their country, including several that already are partnered with the Trump Organization. Any government wanting to seek future influence with President Trump could do so by arranging for a partnership with the Trump Organization, feeding money directly to the family or simply stashing it away inside the company for their use once Trump is out of the White House. This is why, without a permanent departure of the entire Trump family from their company, the prospect of legal bribery by overseas powers seeking to influence American foreign policy, either through existing or future partnerships, will remain a reality throughout a Trump presidency.


Moreover, the identity of every partner cannot be discovered if Trump reverses course and decided to release his taxes. The partnerships are struck with some of the more than 500 entities disclosed in Trump’s financial disclosure forms; each of those entities has its own records that would have to be revealed for a full accounting of all of Trump’s foreign entanglements to be made public.
Newsweek bombshell: How the Trump organization’s secretive global financial ties are ‘a national security nightmare’

Hillary Clinton hammers Trump over bombshell Newsweek report: How can Americans trust you?

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Sep 15, 2016 at 01:24 AM. )
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 15, 2016, 12:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
We'll see what kind of traction this gets. One thing is for. If one is critical of the financial dealings of The Clinton Foundation and at the same time is quite alright with the financial dealings of The Trump Organization then well .... do I really need to spell it out?
That one is a NPO, and held to a higher standard of transparency and integrity, while the other isn't? We expect the latter to do business with virtually anyone, as long as they aren't the worst of the worst, and the former we expect to be much more selective regarding whom they take money from (or give it to). Hillary has taken tens-of-$Millions$ from people who are known to practice slavery, endorse the murdering of gays, and keep women as chattel. Trump isn't a good person, but you think Trump Enterprises is as bad as that? The Clintons took $$ from Qatar, FFS.
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Chongo
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Sep 15, 2016, 12:33 AM
 
45/47
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 15, 2016, 01:02 AM
 
^^ Indeed.
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OAW
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Sep 15, 2016, 01:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
The Clintons took $$ from Qatar, FFS.
And the US government has had military bases in Qatar since 1992. It is a key ally in the Persian Gulf. And there has been a diplomatic relationship including economic, educational, and cultural exchanges since 1973.

Qatar–United States Relations

Additionally, the Qatari government donated $100 million in direct assistance for healthcare, education, and housing after Hurricane Katrina. Are you suggesting those helped should have refused the donations?

Qatar Katrina Fund

Are there serious issues with human rights abuses in Qatar? It would appear so. But the same can be said for the good ole US of A. Including human trafficking.

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Sep 15, 2016 at 02:02 AM. )
     
Waragainstsleep
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Sep 15, 2016, 06:35 AM
 
I was listening to an interview about the Trump Foundation last night.

Some practices look very shady, some just make him look like an awful person.

BBC Radio 5 live - Up All Night, 15/09/2016

Starts just before the 7 minute mark.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Chongo
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Sep 15, 2016, 07:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I was listening to an interview about the Trump Foundation last night.

Some practices look very shady, some just make him look like an awful person.

BBC Radio 5 live - Up All Night, 15/09/2016

Starts just before the 7 minute mark.
uh uhhh, besson says this sort of stuff is
( Last edited by Chongo; Sep 15, 2016 at 07:38 AM. )
45/47
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 15, 2016, 09:43 AM
 
Ivan's walked out of a Cosmo interview? Maybe she doesn't have the political chops after all.
     
subego  (op)
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Sep 15, 2016, 12:03 PM
 
I thought "Ivan" was Paul Manafort's code name.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 15, 2016, 12:11 PM
 
The level of proofreading needed not to look like an ass in an iPhone just adds to my hatred of the platform.

Kudos to you not even giving a hint of the fact that it's your main platform in the quality of your posts.
     
Chongo
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Sep 15, 2016, 09:05 PM
 
Swag now available at the peoples cube


45/47
     
subego  (op)
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Sep 15, 2016, 09:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
The level of proofreading needed not to look like an ass in an iPhone just adds to my hatred of the platform.

Kudos to you not even giving a hint of the fact that it's your main platform in the quality of your posts.
Why, thank you!
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 16, 2016, 12:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
And the US government has had military bases in Qatar since 1992. It is a key ally in the Persian Gulf. And there has been a diplomatic relationship including economic, educational, and cultural exchanges since 1973.

Qatar–United States Relations
False equivalence. We'd accept land for a military base in N Korea too, given the chance. It helps when keeping an eye on the locals in dangerous areas.

Additionally, the Qatari government donated $100 million in direct assistance for healthcare, education, and housing after Hurricane Katrina. Are you suggesting those helped should have refused the donations?
Yes, we should have turned it down. It's a terrible place, one of the worst in that region.

Are there serious issues with human rights abuses in Qatar? It would appear so. But the same can be said for the good ole US of A. Including human trafficking.
"It would appear so"? Then you throw out more false equivalence, comparing the actions of criminals in the USA with state-sanctioned slavery, the protected religious practice of openly murdering of homosexuals, and the blatant disregard for anything even remotely resembling sexual equality. You need to stop watching The Young Turks Turds. Next you'll be denying the Armenian Genocide ever happened, like they do, I guess.
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Waragainstsleep
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Sep 16, 2016, 05:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
uh uhhh, besson says this sort of stuff is fluffy

I dunno, spending charity money on a 6 foot portrait of himself sounds exactly like the sort of thing I'd expect of Trump. As does reneging on donation pledges.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Chongo
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Sep 16, 2016, 06:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I dunno, spending charity money on a 6 foot portrait of himself sounds exactly like the sort of thing I'd expect of Trump. As does reneging on donation pledges.
45/47
     
Waragainstsleep
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Sep 16, 2016, 09:43 AM
 
Give it a rest, its getting old.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
starman
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Sep 16, 2016, 10:03 AM
 

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BadKosh
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Sep 16, 2016, 10:13 AM
 
Keith (In Clinton's Pocket") Overbite?
     
subego  (op)
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Sep 16, 2016, 10:17 AM
 
Now there's an insufferable douchebag I've not heard in a long time.

A long time.
     
subego  (op)
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Sep 16, 2016, 10:26 AM
 
We're such a welcoming bunch.
     
OAW
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Sep 16, 2016, 11:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Yes, we should have turned it down. It's a terrible place, one of the worst in that region.

"It would appear so"? Then you throw out more false equivalence, comparing the actions of criminals in the USA with state-sanctioned slavery, the protected religious practice of openly murdering of homosexuals, and the blatant disregard for anything even remotely resembling sexual equality. You need to stop watching The Young Turks Turds. Next you'll be denying the Armenian Genocide ever happened, like they do, I guess.
So since you are critical of accepting humanitarian donations from Qatar on this basis you must also be critical of such business deals within Qatar?

Trump Hotel Collection in the Middle East: Ivanka Trump, the business tycoon's daughter and executive vice president of development & acquisitions for the Trump Organization, told the Hotelier Middle East that the company's luxury line of hotels, Trump Hotel Collection, plans to build hotels in Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Qatar and Saudi Arabia in an exclusive interview in May.

"Dubai is a top priority city for us," Ivanka Trump said. "We are looking at multiple opportunities in Abu Dhabi, in Qatar, in Saudi Arabia, so those are the four areas where we are seeing the most interest. We haven't made a final decision in any of the markets but we have many very compelling deals in each of them."

Qatar Airways: The international airline Qatar Airways has had a New York office in the Trump Tower on Fifth Avenue in Manhattan. The airline's logo is a variation of the state flag of Qatar and is based there, where Islamic law, or Sharia, serves as the governing legislation.

Listings for office space in the building start at almost $19,000 and can cost more than $106,000.

Trump was a guest at the airline's 2007 gala to celebrate flights to New York and posed for pictures with the company's CEO Akbar Al Baker.

Trump Home partnership in the Middle East: In February, the Dubai-based, Landmark Group-operated, retail brand Lifestyle announced that it would partner with Trump Home, the Trump Organization's line of home decor and furniture, exclusively in Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia and Qatar.
Here Are Some of Donald Trump's Middle East Business Ventures | Mic.com

OAW
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 16, 2016, 12:32 PM
 
Sounds like Trump played the press and the press may punish him for it.
     
OAW
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Sep 16, 2016, 03:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Sounds like Trump played the press and the press may punish him for it.
Absolutely. He just got himself a free informercial for his new hotel. And another opportunity to lie and said that birtherism originated with the Hillary Clinton 2008 campaign. Then didn't even take questions.

OAW
     
Chongo
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Sep 16, 2016, 04:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Absolutely. He just got himself a free informercial for his new hotel. And another opportunity to lie and said that birtherism originated with the Hillary Clinton 2008 campaign. Then didn't even take questions.

OAW
Actually, it did.

Hillary Clinton Campaign Manager Admits 2008 Birther Link

Patti Solis Doyle, who was Hillary Clinton’s campaign manager in 2008 until the Iowa caucuses, admitted on Friday that a Clinton campaign staffer had, in fact, circulated the Birther conspiracy theory that Barack Obama was born outside the U.S. and therefore potentially ineligible to serve in the presidency.
Doyle made the admission on Twitter, as she responded to former George W. Bush spokesman Ari Fleischer. Fleischer said that Clinton’s staff had spread the rumor. Doyle said that was a “lie” — but admitted, in the same tweet, that she had fired the “rogue” staffer who had used email to spread the Birther conspiracy theory.
Birther row began with Hillary Clinton supporters - Telegraph
“Barack Obama’s mother was living in Kenya with his Arab-African father late in her pregnancy,” it said. “She was not allowed to travel by plane then, so Barack Obama was born there and his mother then took him to Hawaii to register his birth.” Then in August 2008 Phil Berg, an ex-deputy attorney general for Pennsylvania and a renowned conspiracy theorist, filed a lawsuit alleging that Mr Obama was ineligible to be a candidate.
45/47
     
OAW
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Sep 16, 2016, 05:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
No it did NOT. Even your own sources say as much.

Blitzer: Someone supporting Hillary Clinton was trying to promote this so-called Birther issue? What happened?

Doyle: So we — absolutely, the campaign nor Hillary did not start the Birther movement, period, end of story there. There was a volunteer coordinator, I believe, in late 2007, I believe, in December, one of our volunteer coordinators in one of the counties in Iowa — I don’t recall whether they were an actual paid staffer, but they did forward an email that promoted the conspiracy.

Blitzer: The Birther conspiracy?

Doyle: Yeah, Hillary made the decision immediately to let that person go. We let that person go. And it was so, beyond the pale, Wolf, and so not worthy of the kind of campaign that certainly Hillary wanted to run.
And from another article ...

On Friday, Clinton’s former senior aide Patti Solis Doyle acknowledged that a volunteer coordinator in Iowa forwarded a birther-related email. “Hillary made the decision immediately let that person go,” she said. “We let that person go. It was so beyond the pale of the campaign Hillary wanted to run and that we as a staff wanted to run that I called David Plouffe who was managing Barack Obama to apologize to say this is not coming from us, that this was rogue volunteer.”

“The campaign nor Hillary did not start the birther movement, period,” she said.
No, Clinton didn't start the birther thing. This guy did. - POLITICO

And for good measure what do all these other news outlets have to say about it?

Did Hillary Clinton start the birther movement? - CNNPolitics.com

Fact Checker: Donald Trump’s ridiculous claim that Hillary Clinton started the birther movement - WashingtonPost.com

Birtherism: Where it all began - POLITICO

No, Hillary Clinton did not start the 'birther' movement

Hillary Clinton Wasn’t a ‘Birther’

Did Hillary Clinton start the Obama birther movement? | PolitiFact

You see this is why it's a good idea to not just go by the headlines and actually read the article. The Breitbart headline trumpets this supposed "Birther link" .... because a rogue volunteer (i.e. NOT an official campaign staffer) forwarded (i.e. NOT originated) an email and was immediately sent packing. But the actual Breitbart article ... and all the other ones for that matter .... makes it clear that Hillary Clinton herself and her campaign operation were NOT behind it. That is the issue. Even this article you linked to ....

Originally Posted by Chongo
Birther row began with Hillary Clinton supporters - Telegraph
“Barack Obama’s mother was living in Kenya with his Arab-African father late in her pregnancy,” it said. “She was not allowed to travel by plane then, so Barack Obama was born there and his mother then took him to Hawaii to register his birth.” Then in August 2008 Phil Berg, an ex-deputy attorney general for Pennsylvania and a renowned conspiracy theorist, filed a lawsuit alleging that Mr Obama was ineligible to be a candidate."
.... says it was anonymous SUPPORTERS ... not the 2008 Hillary Clinton Campaign itself ... that were circulating such emails. And this is precisely what Trump has REPEATEDLY LIED about.

I mean jeez man ... you are citing an article talking about Phil Berg ... a disbarred Philadelphia attorney, random Clinton supporter, and conspiracy theorist ... who sued to get Obama kicked off the ballot in Pennsylvania over this BS. But how in the hell would the 2008 Clinton Campaign be behind such foolishness when per your own source the lawsuit was filed in Aug. 2008 .... and Clinton had already lost the primary and was actively campaigning for Obama by that time? As in 3 months prior to the general election.

This article lays out the timeline of Trump's downright mendacity on this topic quite nicely.

Trump fanned a conspiracy about Obama's birthplace for years. Now he pretends Clinton started it. | Vox.com

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Sep 16, 2016 at 05:45 PM. )
     
besson3c
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Sep 16, 2016, 06:10 PM
 
OAW, it's pretty obvious that Hillary forgot that she didn't actually fire the guy because of her concussion.
     
OAW
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Sep 16, 2016, 06:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
OAW, it's pretty obvious that Hillary forgot that she didn't actually fire the guy because of her concussion.
You know I think you may be onto something right there.

OAW
     
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Sep 16, 2016, 11:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
So since you are critical of accepting humanitarian donations from Qatar on this basis you must also be critical of such business deals within Qatar?

Here Are Some of Donald Trump's Middle East Business Ventures | Mic.com
"Hillary's no worse than Trump!" Wow... That's one of the reasons I'm not voting for Trump, he's been very indiscriminate WRT whom he's done business with. While that isn't as bad as taking cash handouts from slavery-endorsing, gay-murdering misogynists as a NPO, it's bad enough. It's the same as a church accepting tithes from the Mafia, no amount of laundering will make that money clean. It's soaked in the blood of the millions they actively oppress, slaughter, and enslave.

You go on about "systemic racism" in the USA, while going to bat for Qatar, where true bigotry is going on. It's like feminists protesting the imaginary Patriarchy in the West, when practically the entire Middle East (which they also defend) is the real thing. WTF?
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Chongo
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Sep 17, 2016, 07:25 AM
 
It looks like Trump has been shopping at The People's Cube


45/47
     
Waragainstsleep
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Sep 17, 2016, 10:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
"Hillary's no worse than Trump!" Wow... That's one of the reasons I'm not voting for Trump, he's been very indiscriminate WRT whom he's done business with. While that isn't as bad as taking cash handouts from slavery-endorsing, gay-murdering misogynists as a NPO, it's bad enough. It's the same as a church accepting tithes from the Mafia, no amount of laundering will make that money clean. It's soaked in the blood of the millions they actively oppress, slaughter, and enslave.

You go on about "systemic racism" in the USA, while going to bat for Qatar, where true bigotry is going on. It's like feminists protesting the imaginary Patriarchy in the West, when practically the entire Middle East (which they also defend) is the real thing. WTF?

Seems to me that a church taking money from the Mafia is a tricky question of who should feel dirtier. You do realise that
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
slavery-endorsing, gay-murdering misogyny
is an accurate description of the bible?



You criticise OAW for forgiving Hillary or preferring her over Trump (like any sane person would) all while either defending or denying that your own government kills people home and abroad, tortures people too I think. How many women presidents have you had again? How many senators or congresswomen are there? I didn't look but I'm sure it isn't 50%. State governors? Thats not 50% either. I'm sure its because they all prefer staying home having babies all over the place. No misogyny here.

You seem to be confusing worse with true or real. Qatar might be worse than the USA on many of these negative traits but you just denied them altogether using quote marks and calling patriarchy imaginary. Maybe Hillary only takes money from Qatari people who want to change their country for the better? I don't know. Maybe she doesn't know. She's taking that money and trying to improve things for women and minorities while you perpetuate your own country's common refusals to even adhere to its own stated principles of equality because it favours you to do so.

You don't get to say that racism and sexism aren't a problem as a white man. And you don't even understand why you don't get an opinion because you're so used to having yours listened to that you can't imagine what it might be like to be ignored or dismissed.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Waragainstsleep
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Sep 17, 2016, 10:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
It looks like Trump has been shopping at The People's Cube


Ah America, the only country on Earth where people are proud to be assholes.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 17, 2016, 12:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Seems to me that a church taking money from the Mafia is a tricky question of who should feel dirtier. You do realise that
is an accurate description of the bible?
The Old Testament? Absolutely. The New? Not so much.

You criticise OAW for forgiving Hillary or preferring her over Trump (like any sane person would)
I'm saying that taking buckets of $$ from one of the worst countries on Earth is deplorable, no matter the circumstances. In some ways they are literally worse than N Korea.

all while either defending or denying that your own government kills people home and abroad, tortures people too I think. How many women presidents have you had again? How many senators or congresswomen are there? I didn't look but I'm sure it isn't 50%. State governors? Thats not 50% either. I'm sure its because they all prefer staying home having babies all over the place. No misogyny here.
The false equivalence there is truly awe-inspiring. If the women are voting for the men, over women, that's not misogyny. In fact, it's not "misogyny" if men vote for men over women. You clearly don't understand what actual misogyny is. Here's a visual clue:



As for "preferring to stay at home and having babies", what if they do? There's evidence to show that they're biologically hardwired to be that way (and it's no doubt one of the reasons overall female happiness has steadily dropped as women became more integrated with the workforce). Likely that will continue until biology catches up with society.

You seem to be confusing worse with true or real. Qatar might be worse than the USA on many of these negative traits but you just denied them altogether using quote marks and calling patriarchy imaginary. Maybe Hillary only takes money from Qatari people who want to change their country for the better? I don't know. Maybe she doesn't know. She's taking that money and trying to improve things for women and minorities while you perpetuate your own country's common refusals to even adhere to its own stated principles of equality because it favours you to do so.
Absurd, every bit of it. Didn't know? She was SoS, FFS. A child with Google can figure that out in seconds.

"while you perpetuate your own country's common refusals to even adhere to its own stated principles of equality because it favours you to do so"

Complete bullsh*t. Evidence? At my office I personally employ 4x more women than men (~half of whom are minorities), and that's not because men don't apply for the jobs. The women were simply more experienced and qualified.

You don't get to say that racism and sexism aren't a problem as a white man.
Actually, I AM part of the minority in the USA, I'm Latino. So take your SJW rhetoric and stuff it. Even if I wasn't, I have eyes and can see for myself, and will continue to do so, despite the regressive admonishments from your ilk.

And you don't even understand why you don't get an opinion because you're so used to having yours listened to that you can't imagine what it might be like to be ignored or dismissed.
I certainly do get an opinion, as an employer, a taxpayer, and a resident of this country. It's YOU who don't, bubba. You have no idea what my life has been like, especially when I was much younger, growing up as poor and underprivileged as anyone in the USA today. Get yourself sorted out before making such ignorant assumptions.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
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Sep 17, 2016, 01:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep
You don't get to say that racism and sexism aren't a problem as a white man.
Actually, I AM part of the minority in the USA, I'm Latino. So take your SJW rhetoric and stuff it.
Funny how I was just posting about CTP's penchant for argumentative deflection around here. And true to form he does it again!

Waragainstsleep was making a point in the context of RACE and GENDER. You can't "counter" that with your particular identification with respect to ETHNICITY. "Latino" is an ethnic group based upon Latin American ancestry. But that region of the world is populated with various racial groups. Primarily the descendants of European colonizers, African slaves, and Amerindian natives. And various combinations thereof. You can be a blond-haired and blue-eyed white man and still be a "Latino"! IIRC you've said you are Cuban on one side of your family. A grandfather or what not. And that's cool. But just cut it out with this nonsensical "argument". You do realize that you've posted pictures of yourself around here right? And your pasty ass is a white man any way you slice it just like Waragainstsleep said. All day everyday! Moreover, you know good and damned well that on any official form you check "Caucasian". FOH!! Yeah you might also check "Latino/Hispanic". But you don't get to dismiss Waragainstsleep's point on that basis alone. Not even a little bit.

OAW
     
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Sep 17, 2016, 01:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Funny how I was just posting about CTP's penchant for argumentative deflection around here. And true to form he does it again!

Waragainstsleep was making a point in the context of RACE and GENDER. You can't "counter" that with your particular identification with respect to ETHNICITY. "Latino" is an ethnic group based upon Latin American ancestry. But that region of the world is populated with various racial groups. Primarily the descendants of European colonizers, African slaves, and Amerindian natives. And combinations thereof. You can be a blond-haired and blue-eyed white man and still be a "Latino"! IIRC you've said you are Cuban on one side of your family. A grandfather or what not. And that's cool. But just cut it out with this nonsensical "argument". You do realize that you've posted pictures of yourself around here right? And your pasty ass is a white man any way you slice it just like Waragainstsleep said. All day everyday! Moreover, you know good and damned well that on any official form you check "Caucasian". FOH!! Yeah you might also check "Latino/Hispanic". But you don't get to dismiss Waragainstsleep's point on that basis alone. Not even a little bit.
More drivel from our resident purveyor of it, I see. On government forms, under minorities, it clearly lists "Hispanic", I'm Hispanic (aka. Latino) because my mother is full Cuban. Period. (Her family name is Naranjo, FFS.) This is how I've always presented myself, this is the culture I grew up in at home, this is how I'm formally recognized by the gov't and society. Your shitty perception based on a couple pics of me is irrelevant. I'm not "Caucasian" (not that there's something wrong with being one) aka. predominantly of White European descent, the fact you're too dim to understand there are Hispanics with light skin isn't my problem.

However, your racist comment about my complexion is worth noting, and one of the reasons why you're the most detestable of people around here. You love to scream about racism while handing some out yourself... adding "hypocrite" to your dossier, along with liar, instigator, and general ignoramus. You are one of the lowest of the low, I'm just glad you've finally shown your own true colors.

Now, apologize.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
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but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
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Sep 17, 2016, 02:39 PM
 
^^^

On government forms RACE is listed as ...

- White or Caucasian
- Black or African-American
- American Indian or Alaska Native
- Asian
- Native American or Other Pacific Islander

... and GENDER is listed as ...

- Male
- Female

And the point that has yet to be addressed because you are all up in your feelings trying your best to duck it is ...

People who identify their origin as Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish may be of any race.
About Race - US Census Bureau

Perhaps you thought I just made that up?

So again you can't "counter" Waragainstsleep's point about RACE and GENDER with a point about ETHNICITY because they are NOT mutually exclusive.

OAW

PS: And for the record since you are really trying to duck the point ...

pasty: 1. of or like paste, as in texture or color: a pasty complexion.
( Last edited by OAW; Sep 17, 2016 at 02:53 PM. )
     
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Sep 17, 2016, 02:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
^^^

On government forms RACE is listed as ...

- White or Caucasian
- Black or African-American
- American Indian or Alaska Native
- Asian
- Native American or Other Pacific Islander

And the point that has yet to be addressed because you are all up in your feelings trying your best to duck it is ...



About Race - US Census Bureau

Perhaps you thought I just made that up?
Make it up? Yeah, you distort a lot of things, you're well practiced at it.

Race and ethnicity are still used to identify minority groups, which is my ****ing point to begin with. I am still part of, and have always been part of, a minority group, and that is recognized by the gov't and society. To say I don't understand that, or have no experience with it, is BS. YOUR diversion (and bigoted comment) in this is pointless... again.

Now apologize.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
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Sep 17, 2016, 03:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Make it up? Yeah, you distort a lot of things, you're well practiced at it.

Race and ethnicity are still used to identify minority groups, which is my ****ing point to begin with. I am still part of, and have always been part of, a minority group, and that is recognized by the gov't and society. To say I don't understand that, or have no experience with it, is BS. YOUR diversion (and bigoted comment) in this is pointless... again.
But again. His point was rooted in RACE and GENDER. Not ETHNICITY or even MINORITY status. And therein lies my point. The whitest of white people are officially considered to be "minorities" by the US gonvernment if they have Hispanic ancestry. Still doesn't mean that they aren't WHITE!! This is why when the Anglo-Saxons want to include them the term is "white" or "Caucasian". And when they don't the term is "non-Hispanic white". Moreover, women are officially considered to be "minorities" by the US gonvernment even though they actually outnumber men. And that is why they have historically been the primary beneficiary of affirmative action programs. But I digress.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words ...



Saul Alvarez - Mexican professional boxer



Cameron Diaz - Cuban-American actress

Both of these individuals are "Hispanic" and officially a member of a "minority" group per the US government. But clearly their status as such doesn't refute Waragainstsleep's point that such individuals simply aren't in a position to pontificate that racism isn't a problem. And neither are you.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
Now apologize.
I suggest you start breathing before you keel over and pass out.

OAW
     
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Sep 17, 2016, 03:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post

The false equivalence there is truly awe-inspiring. If the women are voting for the men, over women, that's not misogyny. In fact, it's not "misogyny" if men vote for men over women. You clearly don't understand what actual misogyny is. Here's a visual clue:



As for "preferring to stay at home and having babies", what if they do? There's evidence to show that they're biologically hardwired to be that way (and it's no doubt one of the reasons overall female happiness has steadily dropped as women became more integrated with the workforce). Likely that will continue until biology catches up with society.

The 'traditional' role of women in society probably has been bred into them since it was the case that they had little choice for many generations. One could argue that any maintenance of that stature quo is misogynist.

I won't try to say that misogyny in then west is anything close to that of radical Islam, of course it isn't but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Its no stretch to imagine that radical Christians (in particular) in the US might tell their wives and daughters how to cast their votes in elections.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Absurd, every bit of it. Didn't know? She was SoS, FFS. A child with Google can figure that out in seconds.
Ultimately I'm not going to pretend this election isn't turd sandwich Vs giant douche again, but even the accusations against Hillary, most of which are at the very least exaggerated, are typical political fare. They are all doing that kind of stuff, its baseline. Taking money from scumbags and using it to keep another scumbag out of a powerful office is a good thing. Orders of magnitude better than spending charity cash on self portraits or a man famous for being rich taking credit for the charity donations of others. In other words the turd sandwich has much less turd than advertised in it but the giant douche really is the most giant douche of all time.


Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Complete bullsh*t. Evidence? At my office I personally employ 4x more women than men (~half of whom are minorities), and that's not because men don't apply for the jobs. The women were simply more experienced and qualified.
Are you sure its not because they are cheaper

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Actually, I AM part of the minority in the USA, I'm Latino. So take your SJW rhetoric and stuff it. Even if I wasn't, I have eyes and can see for myself, and will continue to do so, despite the regressive admonishments from your ilk.
Its not like I could have known that. Dakar has forbidden me from asking personal questions remember?
Aren't Latinos basically the majority in the US now anyway?


Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I certainly do get an opinion, as an employer, a taxpayer, and a resident of this country. It's YOU who don't, bubba. You have no idea what my life has been like, especially when I was much younger, growing up as poor and underprivileged as anyone in the USA today. Get yourself sorted out before making such ignorant assumptions.
This just makes your behaviour less forgivable. If you know what its like to endure such hardships you shouldn't be so quick to shit on those who still endure them. Or maybe you just understand thats the fastest and easiest way to get out of hardship like Trump does.

And however poor you were, you've been bragging about how great your life is on this forum for at least a decade. More than enough time to forget what its like to be ignored.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Sep 17, 2016, 04:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
But again. His point was rooted in RACE and GENDER. Not ETHNICITY or even MINORITY status.
It absolutely was. To say I didn't encounter, nor can talk about, bigotry is absurd. You're absurd.

Both of these individuals are "Hispanic" and officially a member of a "minority" group per the US government. But clearly their status as such doesn't refute Waragainstsleep's point that such individuals simply aren't in a position to pontificate that racism isn't a problem. And neither are you.
It's the same issue, you've even used some yourself a few posts ago. Aren't you proud? You're on the level of Gazi Kodzo now, talking about us "pasty" complected types. How did you get to this?

I suggest you start breathing before you keel over and pass out.
Just trying to help you with your bigotry, speaking as someone who was on the receiving end of it.

Apologize.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
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Sep 17, 2016, 04:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
The 'traditional' role of women in society probably has been bred into them since it was the case that they had little choice for many generations. One could argue that any maintenance of that stature quo is misogynist.
They could, but it would be stupid.

I won't try to say that misogyny in then west is anything close to that of radical Islam, of course it isn't but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Its no stretch to imagine that radical Christians (in particular) in the US might tell their wives and daughters how to cast their votes in elections.
Complete fabrication and supposition with no evidence.

Ultimately I'm not going to pretend this election isn't turd sandwich Vs giant douche again, but even the accusations against Hillary, most of which are at the very least exaggerated, are typical political fare. They are all doing that kind of stuff, its baseline. Taking money from scumbags and using it to keep another scumbag out of a powerful office is a good thing. Orders of magnitude better than spending charity cash on self portraits or a man famous for being rich taking credit for the charity donations of others. In other words the turd sandwich has much less turd than advertised in it but the giant douche really is the most giant douche of all time.
The ends do not justify the means, no matter how you try to convince yourself. If you have to dig through shit to get a pound, there's still shit on your hands, and for nothing more than money. Keeping a scumbag out of office, but the process turns you into what you're fighting in the first place. That's only if her motivations are pure to begin with, and considering the Clintons' track record, that's entirely unlikely. Colin Powell completely nailed her down, and I think few in politics would know her better.

Are you sure its not because they are cheaper
Everyone there starts at the same rate.

Its not like I could have known that. Dakar has forbidden me from asking personal questions remember?
Aren't Latinos basically the majority in the US now anyway?
No we aren't.

This just makes your behaviour less forgivable. If you know what its like to endure such hardships you shouldn't be so quick to shit on those who still endure them. Or maybe you just understand thats the fastest and easiest way to get out of hardship like Trump does.
Yep, giving away the vast majority of what I've ever made, giving my professional life to support charity, is "unforgivable". You don't know what you're saying, do you, because that was vile. I think OAW and Paco have rubbed off on you.

And however poor you were, you've been bragging about how great your life is on this forum for at least a decade. More than enough time to forget what its like to be ignored.
Making conversation is "bragging"? Yeah, I work with the poor and underprivileged all the time, it helps me to forget what it's like to be ignored and desperate. For real? Back up and rethink that.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
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Sep 17, 2016, 05:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
It absolutely was.
No. It wasn't. Not that reading comprehension is your strong suit but I'll try this again ....

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep
You don't get to say that racism and sexism aren't a problem as a white man.
"Racism" is discrimination and/or mistreatment on the basis of RACE. "Sexism" is discrimination and/or mistreatment in the basis of GENDER.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
To say I didn't encounter, nor can talk about, bigotry is absurd. You're absurd.
Now you see what you did right there? It's called argumentative deflection. With a little deliberate obtuseness tossed in the mix for good measure. Just refusing to address the ACTUAL POINT that was made and instead arguing a DIFFERENT POINT that is NOT in dispute! "Bigotry" is intolerance and prejudice towards members of other groups outside your own ... especially on the basis of race, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, religion, political ideology, language, etc. IOW "racism" and "sexism" are not SYNONYMOUS with "bigotry" ... they are but two of MANY different manifestations of it. A white guy in Britain can be bigoted against a white guy from Turkey. On the basis of ethnicity, culture, religion, language, etc. But it's not based on race. Similarly, no one is saying you have never faced "bigotry" in your life on the basis of your ethnic background, language, culture, etc. But as a white man in America it damned sure ain't on the basis of RACE or GENDER. Certainly not in any SYSTEMIC sort of way. Which is why you aren't in a position to dictate to those who are on the other side of the color and gender line that "racism" and "sexism" aren't a problem in this society. The sh*t ain't rocket science.

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Sep 17, 2016 at 06:09 PM. )
     
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Sep 17, 2016, 09:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
They could, but it would be stupid.
Men have told women they can't do certain jobs right up until this century, even in the west. Despite examples to the contrary dating back thousands of years. Its definitely sexism and its had enough time to affect evolution a little too so no, its not stupid.


Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Complete fabrication and supposition with no evidence.
Once again, it is in the rule book:

“Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, His body, of which He is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.” Ephesians 5:22
And we know America has plenty of people who follow the rule book as closely as they can.

Are the Amish big on voting?

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
The ends do not justify the means, no matter how you try to convince yourself. If you have to dig through shit to get a pound, there's still shit on your hands, and for nothing more than money. Keeping a scumbag out of office, but the process turns you into what you're fighting in the first place. That's only if her motivations are pure to begin with, and considering the Clintons' track record, that's entirely unlikely. Colin Powell completely nailed her down, and I think few in politics would know her better.
I'm afraid there is at least as much supposition here as when I suggested that some men might instruct their wives how to vote. There is also a similar lack of evidence.
In all likelihood these guys probably made more of their money selling oil to Americans than they ever did by oppressing their own citizens. Since you think so little of the Clintons regardless of these donations, I really don't see that it makes much difference. The Qataris almost certainly have more in common with Trump though. They do love their shiny shiny gold in the middle east.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Yep, giving away the vast majority of what I've ever made, giving my professional life to support charity, is "unforgivable". You don't know what you're saying, do you, because that was vile. I think OAW and Paco have rubbed off on you.

Making conversation is "bragging"? Yeah, I work with the poor and underprivileged all the time, it helps me to forget what it's like to be ignored and desperate. For real? Back up and rethink that.
The unforgivable part was where you see fit to deny the claims of millions of people that they are treated unfairly or oppressed, even when there is substantial evidence to back them up. Way to take the opportunity to brag though.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Sep 18, 2016, 12:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
No. It wasn't. Not that reading comprehension is your strong suit but I'll try this again ....
You're not helping yourself, not at all. Whatever is wrong with you needs to be worked out in private, preferably with a therapist.

"Racism" is discrimination and/or mistreatment on the basis of RACE. "Sexism" is discrimination and/or mistreatment in the basis of GENDER.
Pedantic much? I was talking about minorities, that can be either due to race or ethnicity. Keep up.

Now you see what you did right there? It's called argumentative deflection.
No, it isn't. But your juvenile, aggressive bullshit sure is.

With a little deliberate obtuseness tossed in the mix for good measure. Just refusing to address the ACTUAL POINT that was made and instead arguing a DIFFERENT POINT that is NOT in dispute! "Bigotry" is intolerance and prejudice towards members of other groups outside your own ... especially on the basis of race, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, religion, political ideology, language, etc. IOW "racism" and "sexism" are not SYNONYMOUS with "bigotry" ... they are but two of MANY different manifestations of it. A white guy in Britain can be bigoted against a white guy from Turkey. On the basis of ethnicity, culture, religion, language, etc. But it's not based on race. Similarly, no one is saying you have never faced "bigotry" in your life on the basis of your ethnic background, language, culture, etc. But as a white man in America it damned sure ain't on the basis of RACE or GENDER. Certainly not in any SYSTEMIC sort of way. Which is why you aren't in a position to dictate to those who are on the other side of the color and gender line that "racism" and "sexism" aren't a problem in this society. The sh*t ain't rocket science.
So, because I'm a "white male", born into an often maligned ethnicity, I can't know what the bigotry of racism or sexism is like? Again, that's stupid. Go rethink this idiocy, your flavor of oppression isn't special nor better than anyone else's, nor does it earn you extra points in life.
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Sep 18, 2016, 12:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Men have told women they can't do certain jobs right up until this century, even in the west. Despite examples to the contrary dating back thousands of years. Its definitely sexism and its had enough time to affect evolution a little too so no, its not stupid.
Let's move up to current year, why you're obsessed with what happened long ago, and not what's going on today, isn't typical for a "progressive", is it? Want to truly be progressive? Find out why young men aren't getting into college now.

Once again, it is in the rule book:
"Omg, there's something in the Bible I can take out of context to prove a point." It's a good thing that society has changed and we don't live in that culture anymore. The marital traits of ancient peoples is an interesting topic, but not so relevant today, where the women work alongside the men, together.

And we know America has plenty of people who follow the rule book as closely as they can.
Not in the ways you think, get with the program and move up to current times.

Are the Amish big on voting?
The Amish?

I'm afraid there is at least as much supposition here as when I suggested that some men might instruct their wives how to vote. There is also a similar lack of evidence.
In all likelihood these guys probably made more of their money selling oil to Americans than they ever did by oppressing their own citizens. Since you think so little of the Clintons regardless of these donations, I really don't see that it makes much difference. The Qataris almost certainly have more in common with Trump though. They do love their shiny shiny gold in the middle east.
they love their slaves, brutalized women, and gay-killing in the Middle East too, and that's what's so heinous about a supposed charity accepting $$ from the fruits of that cruelty and subjugation.

The unforgivable part was where you see fit to deny the claims of millions of people that they are treated unfairly or oppressed, even when there is substantial evidence to back them up. Way to take the opportunity to brag though.
Again, you don't know what "bragging" is, your delusion has really gotten out of hand. You get to call me things that aren't true, and then bash me for defending myself? That's rather scummy, isn't it? Go on and "brag" about your "superior culture" though, we love to hear that. What's truly unforgivable is you adhesion to identity politics, it's made you less of a person than you were before and only helps prop up the bigotry of low expectations.
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Sep 18, 2016, 12:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
So, because I'm a "white male", born into an often maligned ethnicity, I can't know what the bigotry of racism or sexism is like? Again, that's stupid. Go rethink this idiocy, your flavor of oppression isn't special nor better than anyone else's, nor does it earn you extra points in life.
As a "white male" you can only know what the "bigotry of racism or sexism" is like only in the most "academic" sense of the terms. Personal experience? Not so much. It has about as much credibility as a virgin trying to write a book about having sex. Period. Dot. End of sentence.

OAW
     
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Sep 18, 2016, 01:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
As a "white male" you can only know what the "bigotry of racism or sexism" is like only in the most "academic" sense of the terms.
Garbage, and it's garbage evident by your own bigotry, "Pasty-skinned Latino, lol", on this very forum. Good job.

Now apologize.
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Sep 18, 2016, 01:34 AM
 
^^^

First of all I didn't say "pasty-skinned Latino". I said "your pasty ass". And given how pale your broken ANKLE was when you posted that picture it's certainly not a stretch to conclude that your ASS falls in the same category. I'm sure your "two wives" would agree.

In any event ... you can call it "garbage" all you want. I mean what else can you do since you have no actual rebuttal? But the point stands nonetheless. A "white male" in America trying to contend that "racism" and "sexism" are not a problem in our society has about as much credibility as a virgin trying to write a book about having sex. As your ongoing commentary around here makes abundantly clear.

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Sep 18, 2016 at 02:04 AM. )
     
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Sep 18, 2016, 01:25 PM
 
I've already "rebutted" it, now I'm just mocking you and calling you out on your hypocrisy, if you had any self-awareness you'd realize that. I'd pity you, if you weren't so basic.

Racism and sexism in this country, and the vast majority of the West, is a warm Summer breeze compared to what it was, to the point it's already been overcorrected in most ways. But I know you like your victimhood, it's a badge you enjoy wearing.

Apologize.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
 
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