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Jawbone54 · Jun 11, 2007, 07:29 PM

Is there anything about the new Safari that is going to make you switch if you're a Firefox/Opera/Camino user? Is it really that much faster? Is it just another Safari with the typical yada, yada, yada?

Speak, I say unto thee!

[EDIT] Forgot to add an option for "I use Safari, and will continue to do so." If that's the case, click on "Other (discuss)."

Rumor · Jun 11, 2007, 07:34 PM

I use Safari with Camino and Firefox as backup. I'll probably check out the new version of Safari.

besson3c · Jun 11, 2007, 07:38 PM

I'm very happy that it is doing what I was requesting in allow designers to stylize form controls with CSS. Speed is nice, and Safari finally has dragable tabs (this is not a new feature if you're a Firefox user). I haven't really ran its paces to determine whether it will live up to its claims in the speed department, but I will say that compatibility issues will be a deal breaker here, at least for me.

Unfortunately, if you're a web developer that for whatever reason cannot or will not get your application to work on all browsers, chances are the priority list will be IE, and then Firefox in that order. Safari on Windows will surely help improve matters here though, giving developers much less of an excuse to blow off Safari. Still, Safari needs to be as compatible as Firefox as possible.

nonhuman · Jun 11, 2007, 07:43 PM

I've already switched to the new Safari. I've preferred Safari since about Firefox 1.3. Every time there's a new Firefox release I check it out, but I find Safari to suit me better.

I love the new text search.

BlueSky · Jun 11, 2007, 08:02 PM

I only use Firecrotch for backup when Safari doesn't work on a specific page or site. Safari by far has a more Mac-like GUI and some of the little deviations in Firefox are too Windows-like.

I'm using Safari 3 now and I like the movable tabs, long overdue. I will definitely use that feature a lot. Resizable text fields, nice.

Overall seems faster than before. Couple things that suck are the reload to top of the page, and the alert I get when I reload after making a post here:

Are you sure you want to reload this page?

You have entered text on “The Offical WWDC 2007 Thread - Page 5 - MacNN Forums”. If you reload the page, your changes will be lost. Do you want to reload the page anyway?

peeb · Jun 11, 2007, 08:11 PM

How do you use adblock with Safari? I'd switch, but not if it means ads on the internet again.

CharlesS · Jun 11, 2007, 08:18 PM

I like the new Find feature, a nice touch from Firefox.

The one question I have is, is it possible to hit some key to follow a link that you find with a search like you can with Firefox's QuickFind?

- - e r i k - - · Jun 11, 2007, 08:20 PM

I use Safari already, but without SAFT I feel crippled in the UI department with Safari 3. It's great in any other respect and still miles above anything else.

Hurry up Haoli!

- - e r i k - - · Jun 11, 2007, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by BlueSky

I'm using Safari 3 now and I like the movable tabs, long overdue. I will definitely use that feature a lot.

I've had movable tabs for years in Safari. I didn't even realize this was not built in

And double click the empty bar to create a new tab seems to have gone with disabling SAFT too. Aaaaargh.

TheoCryst · Jun 11, 2007, 08:43 PM

Using it already, and loving it. Faster than 2.0, and moveable tabs are pretty damn spiffy.

Hmm... does this mean that the final 3.0 will be available for Tiger, and not just Leopard?

Scifience · Jun 11, 2007, 09:47 PM

I've been using the WebKit betas for a while, so it was only natural that I switch to Safari 3. Not sure if the Windows version is quite ready for primetime yet, though. It seems to still seem a bit out of place in Windows - it doesn't use Windows' native text smoothing, for example. Not that Apple's isn't better, but it just makes it fit in rather poorly.

Lateralus · Jun 11, 2007, 10:12 PM

Camino FTW.

shinykaro · Jun 11, 2007, 10:26 PM

Mostly Camino for me but I use both. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE tabs I can drag.

Shogun1026 · Jun 11, 2007, 10:27 PM

Will Safari 3 display RSS feeds any differently, Currenty using Vienna and I like the layout. Just wish it would run inside the brower. Maybe it does, don't know only been using it for a couple weeks.

Jawbone54 · Jun 11, 2007, 10:55 PM

I've been using the beta, and it's pretty nice so far. They fixed a few things that aggravated me in the past.

Does anyone know of a plugin that allows me to search Wikipedia from the search bar, a la Firefox? That's the only thing I would miss.

peeb · Jun 11, 2007, 11:08 PM

Am I the only one with three browsers in their dock?!

- - e r i k - - · Jun 11, 2007, 11:26 PM

No. I'm a web developer too. I just vastly prefer Safari to anything else. Compatibility checking is all they are used for.

- - e r i k - - · Jun 11, 2007, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

I've been using the beta, and it's pretty nice so far. They fixed a few things that aggravated me in the past.

Does anyone know of a plugin that allows me to search Wikipedia from the search bar, a la Firefox? That's the only thing I would miss.

http://www.inquisitorx.com/safari/

CatOne · Jun 11, 2007, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by peeb

How do you use adblock with Safari? I'd switch, but not if it means ads on the internet again.

You don't use AdBlock, per se. But you can just use a custom cascading style sheet which blocks adds. For example, download this file:

http://www.gozer.org/mozilla/ad_bloc...serContent.css

And in Safari's preference, specify to use it. Voila, 90% of all ads are gone, and you don't need to run anything.

CatOne · Jun 11, 2007, 11:36 PM

I already use Safari. Of course, this 3.0 public beta just makes it very easy for web developers (on Mac AND on PC) to test their apps to see that they run perfectly on the exact same browser that ships with the iPhone.

torsoboy · Jun 11, 2007, 11:50 PM

I tested out Safari on Windows today at work and the first time it loaded it crashed

Second time it took 10-15 seconds or so to start up and then seemed to run fine, but the text looks quite a bit different in Safari than in any other browser and the pages and images were darker than other browsers as well. Since it has never had super compatibility with a lot of websites I haven't used it in the past... I'm not sure there is enough draw in it to bring me over.

peeb · Jun 12, 2007, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by CatOne

You don't use AdBlock, per se. But you can just use a custom cascading style sheet which blocks adds. For example, download this file:

http://www.gozer.org/mozilla/ad_bloc...serContent.css

And in Safari's preference, specify to use it. Voila, 90% of all ads are gone, and you don't need to run anything.

Thank you!

:dragonflypro: · Jun 12, 2007, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

No. I'm a web developer too. I just vastly prefer Safari to anything else. Compatibility checking is all they are used for.

Ditto. I use FF with the Web Dev plug-in when the need arises, otherwise Saf is where it is at. I probably use IE6/7 in Parallels as much as an alternate Mac browser.

T

(I gave up on OW ever getting back in the game)

wataru · Jun 12, 2007, 05:15 AM

Firefox is still the only one with proper plugins.

- - e r i k - - · Jun 12, 2007, 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by wataru

Firefox is still the only one with proper plugins.

What more do you require in a plugin that a combination of SAFT + Inquisitor doesn't give?

Here's some other cool plugins too:
Pimp My Safari: PicLens Beta 1
Schubert|it - Word Browser Plugin
Pimp My Safari: Cooliris Previews 1.3b
Pimp My Safari: BoPeepers 1.0.1

Heck, there's even a bunch of web developers plugins:
Pimp My Safari: Web development

Really, what specialized plugin for Firefox can't you really live without?

besson3c · Jun 12, 2007, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Really, what specialized plugin for Firefox can't you really live without?

A session manager (this exists in Saft, but you have to pay for Saft), Foxmarks, Web Developer would be nice...

Horsepoo!!! · Jun 12, 2007, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

A session manager (this exists in Saft, but you have to pay for Saft), Foxmarks, Web Developer would be nice...

Session manager exists in 3.0. You can revert to the last session or open the window you closed last.

What else can you ask for? You can create any number of 'sessions' by putting the bookmarked pages in tab blocks in the bookmarks bar.

zro · Jun 12, 2007, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by peeb

Am I the only one with three browsers in their dock?!

I've got five...

Safari 3 has made me a believer in my need for an ad blocker. Hopefully PithHelmet gets an update soon. Might shift to Camino or OmniWeb 'till it does.

Jawbone54 · Jun 12, 2007, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Inquisitor 3. Spotlight for the web.

Thank you. I actually bumped into Inquisitor last night by accident. I like it so far. It's snappier than I thought it would be.

I have both Safari and Firefox in my dock. I used to have Camino as well, but really didn't need it. I'm a 2 browser guy now.

peeb · Jun 12, 2007, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by zro

I've got five...

Safari 3 has made me a believer in my need for an ad blocker. Hopefully PithHelmet gets an update soon. Might shift to Camino or OmniWeb 'till it does.

Oh. My. God. I love the browser, but it's unusable right now. The style sheet hack works a bit, but not anything like enough. It's sitting in my dock, waiting to be made usable by an ad-blocker.

imitchellg5 · Jun 12, 2007, 11:49 AM

I like it right now. I haven't touched Firefox since it came out. It does seem to have a few little bugs here and there, and it seems a bit faster than Firefox to me. I might just stay with it. I think it will be even better with Leopard.

Mithras · Jun 12, 2007, 02:12 PM

Experimenting with switching from OmniWeb. Not too shabby, though I miss workspaces and per-site preferences.

lavar78 · Jun 12, 2007, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Does anyone know of a plugin that allows me to search Wikipedia from the search bar, a la Firefox? That's the only thing I would miss.

Do you use a launcher like LaunchBar or Quicksilver? They are excellent at searching any site very quickly.

dn15 · Jun 13, 2007, 05:34 AM

I installed the Safari 3 beta and it seems nice. I'm using SeaMonkey the most right now because I find it performs slightly better with more complex sites, and it seems like the most reliable of the Gecko-based browsers available today. (Last time I used Firefox regularly it was still forgetting how to copy and paste after being open long enough. And yes, that was as of 2.x.) Voted "I have no opinion right now. I like what I currently use, but I'll think about it."

Graviton · Jun 13, 2007, 05:56 AM

I switched to Firefox because of some weird flash problems I was having with Safari, but whatever it was it's fixed in version 3, so I've switched back to Safari again.

I like Firefox, but it's a bit like wading through porridge in a dress.

Luca Rescigno · Jun 13, 2007, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Camino FTW.

QFT.

Safari has always been buggy and rather slow. They always talk up the speed (what other feature is even important in a browser?), but I've never found it to be that fast. It also slows down my entire computer by sucking away all my RAM when it's in use, even if I don't have any windows open.

To top it all off, the Beta installer forced me to do an archive install. Stupid stupid stupid.

Camino is great - it's a light browser that actually feels light. Safari tries to play itself off as being "light" and therefore fast, but I don't think it's quite true.

shinykaro · Jun 13, 2007, 09:31 AM

Luca, I think you've hit the nail on the head about Camino. It does feel light and swift, which Safari doesn't most of the time.

The more time I spend with the beta though, it does feel faster and seems much less crash-prone, which makes me hopeful.

besson3c · Jun 13, 2007, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

Session manager exists in 3.0. You can revert to the last session or open the window you closed last.

What else can you ask for? You can create any number of 'sessions' by putting the bookmarked pages in tab blocks in the bookmarks bar.

I don't understand. Does it actually have a session manager, or just the ability to save bookmarks like you are describing?

TETENAL · Jun 13, 2007, 10:10 AM

What is a "session manager" in your opinion?

- - e r i k - - · Jun 13, 2007, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

A session manager (this exists in Saft, but you have to pay for Saft), Foxmarks, Web Developer would be nice...

OK, so I am willing to pay for my features instead of having to use them on a slower windows-like browser for free. *sigh*

SAFT, .Mac and WebDeveloper plugins (even though I prefer the X-ray inspector of CSSEdit for that, seeing as that's what I'm actually using while developing) does all you ask for and more. It comes with a price, but for me it's plenty worth it.

- - e r i k - - · Jun 13, 2007, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

What is a "session manager" in your opinion?

The ability to restore the last opened web pages upon quit and relaunch, or by saving a session (not just a folder of bookmarks). Even when Safari crashes. This alone makes SAFT more than worth it.

besson3c · Jun 13, 2007, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

OK, so I am willing to pay for my features instead of having to use them on a slower windows-like browser for free. *sigh*

SAFT, .Mac and WebDeveloper plugins (even though I prefer the X-ray inspector of CSSEdit for that, seeing as that's what I'm actually using while developing) does all you ask for and more. It comes with a price, but for me it's plenty worth it.

Well, if I really wanted an alternative to Foxmarks, I would simply rsync my bookmarks file between machines. In fact, I might just do that. I'm not so sure how I feel about having my bookmarks saved on a remote server.

zro · Jun 13, 2007, 10:28 AM

So, besson, have you tried it? It renders styled widgets...

besson3c · Jun 13, 2007, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by zro

So, besson, have you tried it? It renders styled widgets...

Briefly.. I haven't had much chance to put it through its paces though.

I did notice that it still does not respect CSS styles for form controls. What widgets are you referring to?

TETENAL · Jun 13, 2007, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

The ability to restore the last opened web pages upon quit and relaunch, or by saving a session (not just a folder of bookmarks). Even when Safari crashes. This alone makes SAFT more than worth it.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/...es/safari.html

You can even bookmark a set of tabs or revert to the tabs that were open when you last closed or quit Safari.

besson3c · Jun 13, 2007, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Apple - Mac OS X Leopard - Features - Safari

Nice... I'll have to play around with Safari some more, see how this feature was implemented.

I do hope they release Safari 3 for Tiger.

TETENAL · Jun 13, 2007, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

I did notice that it still does not respect CSS styles for form controls. What widgets are you referring to?

I googled this site that talks about styling form controls, and the latest Webkit nightly (I don't have Safari 3 beta installed any more) seems to respect CSS styling. For example the push buttons

http://www.456bereastreet.com/lab/fo...trols/buttons/

Webkit r22084 to the left and Firefox 2.0.0.4 to the right.

Do you have an example of what is missing in Webkit's form styling?

mr. burns · Jun 13, 2007, 01:10 PM

so what about 2.0's notorious memory leaks. have those all been addressed in the 3.0 beta?

besson3c · Jun 13, 2007, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

I googled this site that talks about styling form controls, and the latest Webkit nightly (I don't have Safari 3 beta installed any more) seems to respect CSS styling. For example the push buttons

Styled submit buttons | Differences in rendering of form controls | 456 Berea Street

Webkit r22084 to the left and Firefox 2.0.0.4 to the right.

Do you have an example of what is missing in Webkit's form styling?

It's a start, I just noticed that it doesn't adhere to CSS styles in <select> input types. I guess this is a work in progress.

EndlessMac · Jun 13, 2007, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by Luca Rescigno

They always talk up the speed (what other feature is even important in a browser?), but I've never found it to be that fast.

That's the point I was going to make. Speed isn't the only thing I want in a browser. Also on my DSL connection just about all my browsers are fast. I guess some people are more impatient. Speed is just ONE criteria I want in a browser. I also found that Safari has problems with some webpages but that problem might be fixed with version 3.

I like Firefox and Camino 1.5 because they have features I like already built in so I don't have to find any plugins. From my experience browsers are more stable when the features you want are already built in and officially supported. If Safari had these features built in then I probably would use it more.