[coolmac]

I don't mean in speed, we all know that story, I mean in the traditional Mac strengths, ease of use and capatability.

Last night I saw a 3.06gig Pentium 4 Sony Vaio Digital Studio PC.
It looks cool, has some very nice software that would seem to compete well with the iLife applications (Picture Gear, Gigipocket, Direct to DVD,Movie Shaker and Sonic Space).

The Gigipocket software is cool, you can stream live TV to any other computer on your network.

It has all of the ports you could ever need, including firewire and 4 USB 2 hubs.

Not to mention the speed, you could add the Radeon 9700Pro video card and the Soundblaster Audigy 2 Platinum right now to make a killer system.

This is NOT a troll, I love my Mac but would this seem tempting to anyone but me?

I'm just getting a little tired waiting for something big from Apple to be released as well as the delay in the Radeon 9700Pro video card.

[Ken_F2]

coolmac,

The "iLife" type applications on the PC are getting better with each new version; with each new verson, they seem to try to copy Apple's apps a little more. That said, while a few may be getting close, the vast majority of these apps are still well behind those offered by Apple. And Apple is not sitting still; they continue to improve their apps.

[CommonSense]

Wow, I could've sworn I just saw this very post on AppleInsider . . .

[Superchicken]

I don't know all I know personally is our family's Compaq is really just a web browsing terminal and MP3 sterio. My iMac does a lot more. I think perhaps Sony's stuff might be going well but.. yah I dono... ultimately no one's really producing iApp quality and for free on the PC side.

[finalfantasy]

I have one of the Sony systems and I like it.

No reason to hate the good PC.

[mac freak]

PC's have a use: Gaming.
I have a cutting-edge gaming PC, and it's great for its intended purpose. There's no reason to hate PC hardware; it's technically superior to Apple's current offering (minus Firewire 800), though often fugly (and nothing can compete stylewise with an iMac or PBG4).

However, I have issues doing REAL WORK in Windows; just doesn't feel right, no? So I do all my Flash/Photoshop/Fireworks/Writing on the Mac side, on my old dual-450 which I refuse to upgrade until the PPC970s are out (not going to waste money on another G4). I love Mac OS... *sigh of happines*...

Speaking of iApps, NOTHING on the Windows side can really compete, let alone freeware.

[jasonxz]

I second the notion that the PC is a great gaming platform, but I find WinXP is very tedious to do other things in.

Furthermore, I built my own PC (probably a mistake) and have had probs with it since day one. Trying to troubleshoot a PC is torture.

But it was a hell of a lot cheaper than my old G4.

[Cipher13]

In many ways PC's are ahead... and not just hardware wise, either.

I'm sorry, but the iApps are garbage. Really.

[Mac Zealot]

PCs are awesome game machines and cheap servers, but that's about all I like to use them for.

Macs are great 'all around' machines. Despite the fact they are lacking in hardware.

[ApeInTheShell]

But they may never catch up on what makes the macintosh better: design

Let's fact it, the Windows OS is a a pile of crap in that department. I dare you to place WinXP next to Mac OS X and tell yourself that Microsoft put as much time into their OS as Apple did.
I think that shows that people are more productive on their mac because they can stand to look at it in the morning/evening/night.
I used windows 2000 for 6 months without using a mac once and i had frequent migraines. Not because it was difficult to use.
The user interface just didn't click with my brain like OS 8/OS X did.

PC's have a large user base, games, tons of software and probably mouthwash.
But they don't run mac os, so i don't care.

[goldplata]

Another lacking point of MAC, as I stated in another thread, is the ability to convert it to a Home Theater Computer! lack of software, Apple support, and (and that�s a real shame) don�t have a good solution for outputing 5.1 Dolby Digital or DTS out of DVD!!!
I thought Apple was the first to introduce mulimedia feutures.
I remember when Apple introduces Quicktime! We could be proud to have the first computer to alow whatch small movies! And now...

[Apple Pro Underwear]

wrong

90% can't all be totally wrong


it's good enough to get the job done well, especially for office apps. don't be talkin out of your ass just because you like the mac better


<---rolleyes

[ph0ust]

Originally posted by ApeInTheShell:
But they may never catch up on what makes the macintosh better: design

Let's fact it, the Windows OS is a a pile of crap in that department. I dare you to place WinXP next to Mac OS X and tell yourself that Microsoft put as much time into their OS as Apple did.
I think that shows that people are more productive on their mac because they can stand to look at it in the morning/evening/night.
I used windows 2000 for 6 months without using a mac once and i had frequent migraines. Not because it was difficult to use.
The user interface just didn't click with my brain like OS 8/OS X did.

PC's have a large user base, games, tons of software and probably mouthwash.
But they don't run mac os, so i don't care.

hmmm... obvious bias aside; microsoft has put in significantly more time than apple has on any os- it's a simple matter of the largest software company in the world versus just another software company. regardless, apple is certainly more beautiful in aesthetics- both software and hardware. while tight integration with hardware provides much of apple's benefit, it also relegates them to wishfull thinking when their vendors fall behind.

win xp is on par with os x and in some regards way past it, it is a great os. the problem with ms in my opinion is that they are garbage on nearly everything else... the rest of their software is not on par with a company that has a huge pool of incredible developers and unlimited budgets. for christ's sake, you would think that at least a piece of sh*t like word would work properly after like a decade of revision!

i honestly wonder how many people who claim xp sux know much about it... and i don't mean "i tried it out for a few months either." driver support, stability, etc. are non-issues.

btw, no i am not a troll. i use both platforms, i love apple, i think ms sux in general.

[ryju]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
In many ways PC's are ahead... and not just hardware wise, either.

I'm sorry, but the iApps are garbage. Really.

ill forgive you

[coolmac]

I caved in today, I bought the Sony PCV-RZ26G Digital Studio this morning, about an hour ago I installed the ATI Radeon 9700 Pro video card and the Soundblaster Audigy 2 Sound card.

For a PC this is really very sweet, good looking, 3.06gig P4 amazing amount of inputs, 6 USB2 Ports & 2 Firewire Ports, it has the first DVD+-RW drive in a desktop computer, and a sh**t load of software.
The only downside is it runs Windows but I couldn't ignore its positives. It's also extremely quiet.

The last straw was last night my brother in law called me and wanted me to order him a Powermac, he wants the dual 1.42gig but really doesn't want to wait. The dual 1.42gig has a 4-6 week delivery on Apples site that hasn't changed in weeks.

When I checked the dual 1.25gig and saw that Apple reduced the amount of L3 cache, reduced the memory (only 256mgs!) and removed the Superdrive (from the last dual 1.25gig) I could hardly believe it, what were they thinking?

Don't get me wrong, I love my 933Mhz.Powermac, I haven't had a single problem with it since I got it, this is after all the added software, changing the video card, memory and all of it's updates including 10.2.4. Somehow it seems that the dual Powermacs have more problems than the single processor versions from what I've read.

I would have much preferred to buy a new Mac, and I will when Apple really comes along with the new IBM processor.

OS X is a joy to use and look at and I continue to enjoy it, I recently got the 20" Cinema Display and together it's a beautiful system.

I must admit I find it frustrating that we must wait months for graphic cards like the ATI Radeon 9700Pro etc, hopefully this will change soon.

[hadocon]

I bought a Sony Vaio Picturebook a few years ago for java programming. I really liked the hardware, and I really wanted to be able to like th is machine enought to use it, but alas I kept coming back to my mac because teh user experience on the Sony was no where near that of the Mac. This was not Sony's fault. If the Picturebook ran Mac OS I would still have it, but it does not - so I sold it about a year after I bought it.

[cambro]

Originally posted by hadocon:
I bought a Sony Vaio Picturebook a few years ago for java programming. I really liked the hardware, and I really wanted to be able to like th is machine enought to use it, but alas I kept coming back to my mac because teh user experience on the Sony was no where near that of the Mac. This was not Sony's fault. If the Picturebook ran Mac OS I would still have it, but it does not - so I sold it about a year after I bought it.

This pretty much sums it up...you can do everything on a PC that you can do on a Mac. The question is, does the design, flexibility and stability in OS X make the Mac more useful when doing a given task? Personally, I find using a UNIX environment superior to Windows (or even 9) for these reasons and more--the more mainly being that everything "just works." How many times have you seen a PC crumple when some USB/firewire/USB2 device/driver is being used for the first time or when windows-specific MSIE exploits result in pornstar popups and links all over the system and desktop?

Apple really needs to continue to maintain high-levels of quality and quality control on it's products and to continue to push the speed envelope--both in terms of software optimization/design and hardware. When, if, and ever, the disaster that is Motorola and the G4 pass into history, the Mac will emerge as a real leader. Until then, it's just another viable alternative with enough perks to keep it going.

[Hi I'm Ben]

There should be a rule that if you don't know anything about a real area you shouldn't be able to post on it.. like MacNN would instantly go "WRONG" and you'd be booted back to your post to retry and write your post over again.

[BobK]

I tried to install GH on my work PC- It is big and fast! Damm thing will not run!
Just when I start thinking I will build a big fast PC this kind of crap happens! There may not be a ton of stuff for the MAC, but it works! ARG!
By the way I am not just a MAC guy! In my opinon wn2k kills mac OS 9!
OSX on the other kicks wn2k and XP in the ass!

[iChristopher]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
I'm sorry, but the iApps are garbage. Really.

Garbage? Oh please... You are obviously trying to start a flame war to entertain yourself this weekend.

iMovie and iDVD are best of breed, period. Even hardcore PC fanboys will admit to that.

[finalfantasy]

Originally posted by ApeInTheShell:
But they may never catch up on what makes the macintosh better: design

Let's fact it, the Windows OS is a a pile of crap in that department. I dare you to place WinXP next to Mac OS X and tell yourself that Microsoft put as much time into their OS as Apple did.
I think that shows that people are more productive on their mac because they can stand to look at it in the morning/evening/night.
I used windows 2000 for 6 months without using a mac once and i had frequent migraines. Not because it was difficult to use.
The user interface just didn't click with my brain like OS 8/OS X did.

PC's have a large user base, games, tons of software and probably mouthwash.
But they don't run mac os, so i don't care.

They will, theyre just not focusing on it which is a big mistake. I mean there has to be someone that is as good as Ives. right?

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by iChristopher:
Garbage? Oh please... You are obviously trying to start a flame war to entertain yourself this weekend.

iMovie and iDVD are best of breed, period. Even hardcore PC fanboys will admit to that.

Yeah, obviously.

Obviously I have nothing better to do with my weekend.

[IEEE1394]

Originally posted by iChristopher:
Even hardcore PC fanboys will admit to that.

The same PC fanboys who prefer Windows over OS X?

[cube-dude]

Originally posted by Hi I'm Ben:
There should be a rule that if you don't know anything about a real area you shouldn't be able to post on it.. like MacNN would instantly go "WRONG" and you'd be booted back to your post to retry and write your post over again.

And what would we mods and admins do with all that spare time?

Anyway, this post is more general topic than Power Mac specific, so off to the Lounge it goes . . .

[Zimmerman]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
In many ways PC's are ahead... and not just hardware wise, either.

I'm sorry, but the iApps are garbage. Really.

Oh really. Wanna expand on that or should I just chalk you down as a troll?

Originally posted by goldplata:
Another lacking point of MAC, as I stated in another thread, is the ability to convert it to a Home Theater Computer! lack of software, Apple support, and (and that�s a real shame) don�t have a good solution for outputing 5.1 Dolby Digital or DTS out of DVD!!!

VLC will do that on a Mac. There are a couple of cards and USB boxes that will output DD and DTS. Take your pick.

[driven]

I make my living on Windows. I have a vested interest in that platform (and .NET) being a success.

However: every time my XP user profile gets corrupted which causes me a days worth of work to fix (twice now in the past 6 months), I long for my Mac. (Which has been EXTREMELY trouble free.)

Each version of Windows has one issue or another. XP has the profile corruption, 2k had occasional blue screens, etc.

[Mac Zealot]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Yeah, obviously.

Obviously I have nothing better to do with my weekend.

You KNEW you were bored!!!

So anyway, no ONE pc could do all the things I want. I run a dozen and one programs and like the ability to keep them immune from user havoc, on X I can log out and in and 90% of my programs will still be running no matter what happens.

If I had PCs, I'd want to use 2, for lag, stability, and other reasons. Preferably my server would run a build of BSD.

Windows XP, honestly, isn't that bad. It's just the most unintuitive OS in the world and PC laptops are utter crap. I build my own PCs however, so they are quite the opposite.

I *Still* haven't had a crash in about 3 days on my PC now, it's running windows 98 (I scratched up my xp disk beyong recongnition so meh), and that's good considering it's getting solid 18 hour uptimes and running every program I'd have a gut to use.

But it's just not the same. My terminal apps suck and I can't do certain operations as quickly and fluidly on windows as I can on my mac.

If I ever had to buy a desktop again I'd happily buy a vaio, as bar none, they seem to be the better of the bunch, when I was looking at computers long ago I wanted a pen tablet but then saw the g4.

Windows, as an OS, regardless of version (candy enhancements and all), just doesn't work well with me. And as long as that's true I'll be using OS X (or sucessors) as my primary OS

OS 9 was total crap and I still think windows > os 9 for me, but OS X is the true winner

So it's really the way a person's head works and such. Frankly a laggy $2500 LCD and a video card that's worse than some 3 year old cards in that it only gives me 60fps (if you're reading this you know who you are who had to pity me) makes me happier than a PC with a bunch of beige drives on the front and a floppy drive with all the toys a 5 year old could ever dream of.

Except for the fact my quicksilver is noisier than all of my desktop PCs combined.

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by jasonxz:
I second the notion that the PC is a great gaming platform...

If sony released the PlayStation 3 OS for x86 PCs with Windows support libraries, Microsoft would lose about 80% of all their revenue (Office asside since that IS their revenue.)

[Zimmerman]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
If sony released the PlayStation 3 OS for x86 PCs with Windows support libraries, Microsoft would lose about 80% of all their revenue (Office asside since that IS their revenue.)

I highly doubt that. I don't know any numbers, but business buy more OS's, productivity apps (Office), and server software (Microsoft's server software is 37%? last I heard) each year than consumers do. Consumers don't make THAT much difference, though they do count a chunk.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Zimmerman:
Oh really. Wanna expand on that or should I just chalk you down as a troll?

Chalk me down as whatever you like.

iPhoto: slow, clunky, and the brushed metal is awful. So bloated. It reminds me of Luna, but without looking like cheap plastic. It doesn't work half the time since 10.2.4, when it comes to recognising USB devices.

iCal: slow, clunky, brushed metal again. Same complaints as iPhoto, but this has potential. More potential than iPhoto...

iTunes: love it. It's the only iApp I use. However - 30% CPU? Please! What complete crap! WinAMP - 2-3%. That's just horrid, Apple. Other than that, great app.

iMovie: was decent, but the new interface takes it out of my good books. I haven't used it enough to comment, really. Damn slow (the latest version. The others were nowhere near as slow).

iDVD: Haven't used it much. It does it's job, but is DAMN slow.

iChat: HAHA. Seriously. That app is the biggest piece of crap there is.

Any others?

[imaxxedout]

yeah, how about this:

iDVD: 90 minute app? **** YOU APPLE> NOw I have to make everything into 2 discs you stupid f(cks. ARGH

iMovie: Meh. Good, no chapter feature though.

iTunes: The visualizations are about 50% as fast as Macast and it uses 50% more CPU time. How? No idea.....

- Ca$h

[Zoom_zoom]

I personaly would have to say that having only a PC (1ghz, running W2K) it is not all beer and skittles.

Although Pc's do have an open market for programs and hardware, many of the retailers are dodgy and cut corners.

For example: last year i went and brought myself a digital video editing card. Of course i put the baby in, and install all the drivers, only to find out that it didn't work!, all imports were scambled, When i went back to the shop to trade it in for another, they wouldn't do it because it was taken out of it's own box!

Ohh and don't get me stated when my USB stopped working (when my comp was under warrenty)
they blammed it on me because i installed a Cd burner and changed the OS from (windows ME... shudder) to windows 2k.. go figure

So back to the topic Question. Has the Pc caught up to the Mac? for a person like me. No.

[Mastrap]

Originally posted by Cipher13:


I'm sorry, but the iApps are garbage. Really.

No there not. They do the job they were designed to do - give average users the ability to create digital video, listen to mp3s etc.

They work exceedingly well.

Originally posted by imaxxedout:
yeah, how about this:

iDVD: 90 minute app? **** YOU APPLE> NOw I have to make everything into 2 discs you stupid f(cks. ARGH

iMovie: Meh. Good, no chapter feature though.

iTunes: The visualizations are about 50% as fast as Macast and it uses 50% more CPU time. How? No idea.....

iDVD: 90 minute app? Uhm... Ca$h, you do know it's because consumer DVD writers are only single layer-capable? Movies come on dual-layer - twice the capacity. It's possible to make longer DVDs, but the quality would suffer. Apple made the better trade-off. Besides, who makes 90 minute home movies? It's geared at home movie makers, not film students or directors.

iMovie: version 3 has chapter markers, IINM.

iTunes: visualizations - maybe a legit beef, but who cares? iTunes is for listening to music. Do people really stare at visualizations all day? If that's the best critique you can come up with, then iTunes is doing pretty well.

[daydreamer]

I love brushed metal and the iApps are superb. There is no other *free* set as good as the iApps on the wintel platform.
The only slow dog for the moment, is iMovie 3, but the features are awesome. Don't tell me windows movie maker that comes with xp is better, talk about friggin garbage..

About cpu eating.. iTunes takes 8% cpu power here..It increases when using iTunes, wich is obviously normal, and anyway, winamp is complete garbage when it comes to managing, searching mp3s, makin playlists, and it lacks cd burning.

If the PC caught up to the Mac, then I'd have no problem switching to a PC. I could sell all my Macs now and have more than enough for a "kick-a**" PC. But I choose not to because I don't believe it has.

PC users typically value quantitative factors such as number of features, MHz ratings, etc.

Mac users typically value qualitative factors such as look and feel, enjoyability, style because for them, that will bring quantitative results in the end.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

This little Mac vs. PC argument seems to come down to the iApps and if a user is dependant on freeware or not.

For those of us who have moved beyond the iApps, the notion of Mac superiority based on them is negligible.

I wouldn't touch iMovie if my life depended on it. I need real tools like Final Cut Pro, Premiere, Speed Razor, Vegas, After Effects, etc. No freeware garbage on either platform for me could replace the use of real editing/processing apps. In the arena of professional use, Macs and PCs are equally adept at video editing.

I don�t use iPhoto anyway. On the Mac I prefer iView Media Pro hands down, on the PC I use Vallen Jpegger.

Again and Again, so much a big deal is made over the differences between Windows and OSX, yet the fact that many of the staple apps across platforms are virtually identical is often ignored.

Adobe apps- virtually identical on both platforms, err- except for a few key differences. Photoshop 7 for OSX- be honest, it�s slow. Photoshop flies on the PC and looks/feels exactly the same. I�m long past the point of preferring Photoshop on the PC for any number of reasons; speed, no issues of needing carbonized vs. classic plug-ins, etc. I can hardly believe how slow Adobe Illustrator is in OSX, downright sluggish. Same negative plug-in issues.

Macromedia apps- completely identical, certainly with the MX series. I couldn�t possibly care less if Flash and/or Director are running on a Mac or a PC. Also there�s no Swish for Flash creation automation (awesome tool) on the Mac.

Sound editing- the PC wins it hands down with tools like Sound Forge, Cool Edit Pro and Acid. It�s a shame Sonic Foundry doesn�t make products for the Mac. For me, SF is an absolute essential software company up there with Adobe and Macromedia.

What I play MP3s on matters hardly an iota. I can�t really understand making an overly big deal out of iTunes or any other audio player in general. I use it, but WinAmp works fine as well- and as stated with less system overhead. In fact since my PCs generally have far superior audio hardware than my Macs, it could be said that WinAmp is preferable.

iDVD and DVD Studio Pro: Apple does rule the roost in this category, but mainly for Studio Pro, not iDVD.

iCal? Please. Who really cares?


The iApps aren�t bad for what they are, just they aren�t pivotal for a lot of people who use professional commercial software.

[Superchicken]

Personally I hate windows... every bit of software I hear people use they pirate... I dono perhaps I'm just used to Mac OS or something... but it just seems to be needlessly complicated when doing ANYTHING... I hate even touching our family's PC... I dono... I'm not an iApp junky I'm running X.1 I can't even run most of the new ones... I just like mac OS more...

[istallion]

Originally posted by daydreamer:
I love brushed metal and the iApps are superb. There is no other *free* set as good as the iApps on the wintel platform.
The only slow dog for the moment, is iMovie 3, but the features are awesome. Don't tell me windows movie maker that comes with xp is better, talk about friggin garbage..

About cpu eating.. iTunes takes 8% cpu power here..It increases when using iTunes, wich is obviously normal, and anyway, winamp is complete garbage when it comes to managing, searching mp3s, makin playlists, and it lacks cd burning.

Just because you don't know how to use other apps doesn't mean you can trash them.

For instance even with winamp 2.8x, navigate your mp3s with explorer and drag them onto winamp, playlist in seconds. Press 'j' to jump to a song, it'll search filenames and ID3 tags and display results as you type. I don't really care to have integrated cd-burning. It takes 4 clicks to burn a playlist with nero, so it's not a hassle at all.
For me, not having to look at that brushed metal interface and being able to play games and other cpu intensive activities whiling listening to MP3's is a real benefit.

[typoon]

Originally posted by istallion:
Just because you don't know how to use other apps doesn't mean you can trash them.

For instance even with winamp 2.8x, navigate your mp3s with explorer and drag them onto winamp, playlist in seconds. Press 'j' to jump to a song, it'll search filenames and ID3 tags and display results as you type. I don't really care to have integrated cd-burning. It takes 4 clicks to burn a playlist with nero, so it's not a hassle at all.
For me, not having to look at that brushed metal interface and being able to play games and other cpu intensive activities whiling listening to MP3's is a real benefit.

You can still play games and listen to MP3's in OS X as well as being able to do other CPU intesive activities.

[sek929]

If your only grudge with the iApps is the speed than you are overlooking quite a bit of brilliant programming.

I've never had a set of applications work so flawlessly.

However, iChat blows, and iCal is in a field of way to many calendar programs that it really doesn't matter what you use.

iMovie is, quite possibly, the best application to come out on any platform for quite some time. Just go to any school with Macs and iMovie and kids are using it to do school projects and generally teaching themselves it without much tutoring. Though I've since moved on to Final Cut Pro and FCE, I still use iMovie for a lot of small simple stuff...

[istallion]

Originally posted by typoon:
You can still play games and listen to MP3's in OS X as well as being able to do other CPU intesive activities.

Well, I know you CAN. But would you want to? On my gaming system(duron 850), I definitely notice when something is running that uses 10-15% of the cpu. Winamp only spikes above 0% when it crossfades.