[Eug]

http://www.apple.com/xserve

Dual G5 2.0
1U
750 TB hard drive storage
8 GB ECC memory support <-- This is key IMO.

From Macminute:

G5 Xserve announced today. Has two front air vents, 1U form factor, single and dual 2GHZ G5, ECC memory ddr400 - up to 8GB, up to 750GB of storage, full port connectivity, ship with Panther Server (unlimited client license).

Xserve G5 will ship in February in three versions: 2GHz $2,999, Dual 2GHz $3,999, Compute Node Dual 2GHz - $2999.

Also: Xserve RAID -- 3U storage system, added 3.5TB of online storage -- 30% increase, SFP connection RAID set slicing - up to 16 per RAID. Qualification with several fibre channel switching, Certification for Windows 2003 Server, Linux, more. Pricing: 1TB $5999 1.75 $7499 ($3 per GB).

[Lateralus]

ECC... Mmmmm...

[hadocon]

I like the fact that thay are pushing a "compute node" version of the Dual 2Ghz. Will Apple clustering software be far behind?

[hadocon]

Too bad the enclosure is the same as the G4 Server.

[awcopus]

Interesting how Apple is able to fit 3 hard drive bays and dual 2GHz G5 processors in a 1U form factor. Suddenly the G5 desktop computer with its thermal zones and fans....

Looking forward to Apple making more efficient use of the massive G5 enclosure.

[Lateralus]

^^^ Which is one of the things keeping me from even looking at the G5 as a serious purchase option yet. If I am going to buy a computer that is the size of a car (which is fine with me), it had better f*cking hold more than two hard drives and one optical drive. I mean, those crappy Gateway and Dell mini-PCs for $400 are more expandable than that.

[MaxPower]

I am sure that in order to squeeze all that into the same enclosure the fans are mind-numbingly loud. I'd rather have a big box under my desk that is (relatively) quiet than a pizza box screaming at me.

[Eug]

Originally posted by hadocon:
Too bad the enclosure is the same as the G4 Server.

That's the G4 Xserve. This is the G5 Xserve:



Notice the missing hard drive.

[i_wolf]

drool drool
I wonder if these Xserve's are using the rumored 90 nanometer process from IBM or if they are using the same 130 process the powermac's are using.
Its interesting that they managed to get the G5 into a 3u case let alone a 1u !
And ECC memory.... perfect.
Imagine how much higher the scores virginia tech could have achieved with 1100 of these bad boys instead of powermac G5's. Since they would not have had to implement error correction in software since the Xserve supports ECC. Im sure that error correction must have a significant overhead.
However in regular apps on a desktop workstation obviously ECC would be slightly slower ,however, it would be cool to see how much of a diff ECC makes in regular apps to the G5... i.e. run photoshop on a dual Xserve and on a dual PowerMac

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by i_wolf:
drool drool
I wonder if these Xserve's are using the rumored 90 nanometer process from IBM...

According to this PDF, they are.

[Eug]

Originally posted by i_wolf:
drool drool
I wonder if these Xserve's are using the rumored 90 nanometer process from IBM or if they are using the same 130 process the powermac's are using.
Its interesting that they managed to get the G5 into a 3u case let alone a 1u !
And ECC memory.... perfect.
Imagine how much higher the scores virginia tech could have achieved with 1100 of these bad boys instead of powermac G5's. Since they would not have had to implement error correction in software since the Xserve supports ECC. Im sure that error correction must have a significant overhead.
However in regular apps on a desktop workstation obviously ECC would be slightly slower ,however, it would be cool to see how much of a diff ECC makes in regular apps to the G5... i.e. run photoshop on a dual Xserve and on a dual PowerMac

The scores would have been identical with or without ECC. However, with ECC the benchmark would fail less often.

As for the 1U, I don't think it's surprising at all. Dual Xeon and dual Opteron 1U machines are already available. I still don't understand why people were saying 3U. 3U makes no sense at all, esp. given Apple's history.

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
According to this PDF, they are.

Cool! (No pun intended.)

I guess that means 90 nm Power Macs are on their way soon.

[Eug]

Estimated shipping "6-8 weeks".

[Dr Reducto]

Im sure VTech is phoning Apple to ask them why they didn't inform them that they could have had all their G5's racked up. It would have made the cluster WAY smaller.

[Eug]

Originally posted by Dr Reducto:
Im sure VTech is phoning Apple to ask them why they didn't inform them that they could have had all their G5's racked up. It would have made the cluster WAY smaller.

I'm sure VTech new they were coming eventually. However, they wouldn't be coming by Sept., when they needed them, to make the November deadline for the Top 500 supercomputer list.

The dual G5 2.0 Xserve costs more than the dual G5 2.0 Power Mac too.

[Eug]

And in other news... Xgrid is now available.

Imagine waking up one day to find your Mac has solved a vexing scientific problem. While the cure to cancer, super-efficient solar power and ending world hunger are a ways off, you can combine your computing resources using Xgrid � and help usher in a new era of biological breakthroughs, rocket science and advanced models of scientific phenomena.

[Eug]

[Eug]

Apple Workgroup Cluster For Bioinformatics

The Apple Workgroup Cluster for Bioinformatics provides a faster, easier and lower-cost path to scientific discovery. You�ll get rapid access to data analysis with minimal administrative burden in one comprehensive, industry-leading solution. All starting at $27,999.

[Eug]

[Love Calm Quiet]

Very cool. Now if I can just come up with a sufficiently processor-intensive task to warrant this little acquisition

[l008com]

Wow imagine how great my RC5 key-rate would be with even that little short nubby rack on wheels!!! If G5 cores ever come out anyway.

[Thinine]

You can ride it!

[l008com]

Originally posted by Thinine:
You can ride it!

how much processor power does it take to move a rack? Or is that kind of power measured in CFM out the back?

[i_wolf]

was anyone here at the show?
If you were .. how loud are these things?

[Eug]

The 90 nm G5 PPC 970 2.0 still has 512 KB of L2 cache. I wonder if an upgrade to 1 MB is in the works this year.

[tooki]

G4 Xserves were loud.

As for the size... remember that while it's only 1U high, the footprint is HUGE. Its total volume is not likely very much less than a standard G5.

tooki

[l008com]

I think now is the perfect time to introduce an iServer consumer level server based on like a single 700MHz G4, 3 or 4 HD bays, slot load DVD ROM, one pci slot, built in dual ethernet. Headless. Like a larger cube. Even make it smooth and white like an ibook. It would be the perfect thing. I would have bought one in a second when i had my old server but i upgraded to a blue and white G3 so I'm all set for a while. But I think an iServer aka home server would sell great.

[Eug]

Originally posted by tooki:
G4 Xserves were loud.

As for the size... remember that while it's only 1U high, the footprint is HUGE. Its total volume is not likely very much less than a standard G5.

tooki

Time to back off the wacky tabacky my friend.

G5 Power Mac volume: 3045 cubic inches
G5 Xserve volume: 853 cubic inches

In other words, the G5 Power Mac is 3.5X the size.

[l008com]

G5 Xserve is impressive, G5 powerbook is going to take some serious doing!!

[Dr Reducto]

I heard that Apple is letting VTech replace their G5 Towers with XServe Cluster Nodes.

[l008com]

Originally posted by Dr Reducto:
I heard that Apple is letting VTech replace their G5 Towers with XServe Cluster Nodes.

That seems very unlikely for many reasons, like the work it takes to set up that many computer, and what is apple going to do with 1100 used powermac G5's? thats either a big loss for apple, or a big expense for vtech. it would drastically cut down the size of the server room though.

[Dr Reducto]

That seems very unlikely for many reasons, like the work it takes to set up that many computer, and what is apple going to do with 1100 used powermac G5's? thats either a big loss for apple, or a big expense for vtech. it would drastically cut down the size of the server room though.

That's not that big of a loss. The cost for Apple would be about 3.5 million if they gave them free XServes. OR, they could buy back the G5's for half-price, and then give a price break on the XServes. It would cost Apple 1, maybe 2 million to do that. Not much for basically a huge advertisement for Apple.

Plus, I hear the building for the Supercomputer is closed while they replace power lines.

[Eug]

Originally posted by Dr Reducto:
I heard that Apple is letting VTech replace their G5 Towers with XServe Cluster Nodes.

Sez who?

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

What is ECC anyway?

[l008com]

Error Correcting Circuitry right?
So the RAM knows if it made a mistake. And if someone else wants to do better, be my guest :-)

[Eug]

Here's my layman's understanding:

Error checking and correcting (ECC) memory is used when data integrity is paramount. For those of us doing word processing or Photoshop, a rare memory error is pretty much irrelevant.

However, let's say you're running a mission critical server cluster, or a computation that requires 100 computers in parallel for a week. A memory error could cause a crash... Can you imagine getting an unexplained crash at day 5 because of a memory error? Or even worse, no crash at all but an incorrect result after the week is finished without us even knowing about it.

There are single-bit and multi-bit errors possible. ECC can CORRECT single-bit errors on-the-fly, which is a great since the vast majority of errors will be single-bit. They can also DETECT (but not correct) multi-bit errors. These errors are also logged by the system.

Thus, the supercomputer at Virginia Tech really should have ECC, but it doesn't because of the G5 Power Mac - it doesn't support ECC. This has been one of the major criticisms of the VT setup. OTOH, it's probably not a big deal they may be splitting the thing up into smaller clusters to spread the system amongst many simultaneous users. The smaller the cluster, and the shorter time you run stuff, the less risk of a significant memory error. And since you'd probably run your computations twice or more anyway, you'd be checking the integrity of your data that way.

I never did understand why the G4 Xserve didn't support ECC. It may be argued that for a lot of usage, ECC is simply a security blanket of questionable importance. But of course with mission critical stuff, you can never have too many security blankets. I guess the G4 Xserve wasn't really ever aimed at the upper end, and hence its design was adequate for its market. Maybe there simply wasn't much point, since the rest of the hardware had so many limitations anyway. OTOH, the G5 Xserve is superior to the G4 Xserve in so many ways, and it is clearly aiming (partially) at a much more hardcore market than the G4 Xserve ever did. And thus ECC is essential for its success IMO.

[l008com]

right on!

[Socially Awkward Solo]

isn't ecc slower then since it has to check everything?

[Ganesha]

Originally posted by l008com:
That seems very unlikely for many reasons, like the work it takes to set up that many computer, and what is apple going to do with 1100 used powermac G5's? thats either a big loss for apple, or a big expense for vtech. it would drastically cut down the size of the server room though.

Not if Apple resells them as referb units. Which Apple sells for $2400.

[Eug]

Originally posted by Socially Awkward Solo:
isn't ecc slower then since it has to check everything?

I'm not sure if there is a speed loss, but if there is, it's at most 1-2%.

[redJag]

Yes, it is a very small (if any at all, really) speed loss. The speed loss is worth it, when you NEED the error checking, because otherwise you have to devote processor time to error checking.

[Eug]

Pix!

[jeronimo]

Can I use a Xserver as a regular Panther computer? To run audio applications and stuff?
Can I hook up a monitor, keyboard, FW stuff...
And what's the difference btw the cluster and the xserver?

[l008com]

Originally posted by jeronimo:
Can I use a Xserver as a regular Panther computer? To run audio applications and stuff?
Can I hook up a monitor, keyboard, FW stuff...
And what's the difference btw the cluster and the xserver?

The cluster has no optical drive and only one hard drive. You could use an Xserve as a normal computer, but it would cost so much more, and me a lot of hassle, you might have to buy a separate video card for it, which would make it PCI and you would be stuck with an old slow video with no quartz extreme. You're much better off getting a tower.

[CatOne]

Originally posted by tooki:
G4 Xserves were loud.

As for the size... remember that while it's only 1U high, the footprint is HUGE. Its total volume is not likely very much less than a standard G5.

tooki

No, the 1 GHz Xserves were loud. The 1.33's were not all that loud. Sure, they're louder than a desktop G5, but they're not all that loud. And they're not designed to be sitting on your desk, for the most part

And sure, the footprint of the Xserve is large -- it's FLAT. But the dimensions are totally normal for rack-mount hardware -- 1.75" tall and 19" wide. The Xserve, at 30" deep, is on the long side, but most rack-mount servers are between 19" and 31" deep, so nothing extreme.

[jeronimo]

The only reason I was asking about using the Xserver as a regular computer was to "save" space... fit it in a regular outboard FX rack and leave it there... in the studio...

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by Eug:
Pix!

I stopped by there. I was trying to find out a way for us to add/remove 350 user accounts on Panther server every 3 months. Only suggestion Apple had was to use AppleScript/shell scripting to automate it.

Guess I'm learning AppleScript and shell scripting.

I don't think that XServe was running, but if it was, it was really quiet. The G4 XServe sounds like a jet engine.