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Any Sane Functioning Adult 2020: The Democratic Primary
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andi*pandi
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Jun 14, 2019, 04:21 PM
 
Dems:
Biden - No. I used to like him but he's missed the boat and is campaigning like it's the 80s and he can just cakewalk.
Bernie - I still like some of his ideas, but man is he old.
Pete - Run for governor or senator, Pete. Run for president in 8 years.
Beto - Ditto.
Kamala - I like her. Tough, knows the law.
Warren - I also like her. Got an issue? She has a plan for that. She has prepared for this.

Others - meh.

Reps:
I've heard rumors some will challenge Trump in the primary, and the republican base is trying to distance themselves from his antics... who would run?
     
OreoCookie
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Jun 15, 2019, 04:20 AM
 
Honestly, I would not elect Sanders or Biden based on their age alone. Being President is a tough job, and if you are close to crossing the average life expectancy during the term, you are way too old.

I like Warren and the fact that she really does her homework. I don't agree with some of the details, but honestly, as soon as you propose something specific, you'll get people disagreeing about the hows even if you agree on the whats. So I don't hold it against her.

Mayor Pete seems like a solid choice for VP, me thinks. Extremely smart, bipartisan pedigree but like you wrote, a bit young.

Beto needs to grind a bit more, losing an election is not the best of qualifications. I don't think he should be running for president at this stage. Charisma is not a qualification.
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ghporter
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Jun 15, 2019, 09:26 PM
 
Beto's biggest asset is that he almost beat Cruz, without any PAC money, without even real support from the state party until late in the game, just real grassroots support. He nearly beat an obscenely well funded, party supported incumbent. From out of nowhere.

He's "hungry" for the challenge, and though he may seem unseasoned from someone who didn't watch his whole senate race, he IS getting lots of attention, exceeding fundraising goals, and getting plenty of local activism going.

Bernie no longer looks like "the outsider with new ideas." He kinda looks like the uncle that should have been put in an assisted living center years ago.

Joe is affable, has plenty of actual experience, but has no direction - and no agenda. He needs both or he just flounders around.

Elizabeth has experience, had chops, and has an agenda. But I can see the Dems having issues with going to bat for her, mainly because she's not "some other woman" we shouldn't name.

I'm afraid that Kamala is also going to have to deal with that, plus she's black and the Dems are pretty psychotic about this whole "logic" thing when it comes to candidate selection...

Someone to watch is Julian Castro. Former San Antonio mayor (a coworker went to high school with him and his twin brother Joaquin), he was only 40 when he was named HUD secretary and was the youngest member of Obama's cabinet. Between him and his congressman-brother, there's a ton of smarts, savvy and great ideas.

The field is way too big right now, and if they are smart, the Democratic Party will start winnowing soon. And if they are really smart, they'll figure a way to redirect support from "former candidate" campaigns into the smaller field's candidates, ultimately funneling all support to their chosen candidate.

I'll also point out this caution: the reason Nixon won in 1968 was that the Democrats split between Humphrey and Wallace. (Yes, a big chunk of then-Democrats supported Mr. Segregation and his newly minted "American Independent" party). If the Democrat vote hadn't been split, it wouldn't have taken a lot of Wallace supporters' votes added to Humphrey's to beat Nixon's vote. Nixon only got about 500,000 more votes than Humphrey (31,783,783 vs. 31,271,839). The Democratic Party needs to keep this little history lesson in mind for 2020, get their act together, and get a single candidate out there, one who's drive is not just "get Don out of the Oval Office."

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Thorzdad
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Jun 15, 2019, 11:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
...the Democrats split between Humphrey and Wallace. (Yes, a big chunk of then-Democrats supported Mr. Segregation and his newly minted "American Independent" party).
Yeah...that would be my parents. To my lifelong shame.
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OldManMac
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Jun 16, 2019, 01:05 PM
 
Biden; everybody's old uncle. Like the guy personally, but he's got lots of neoliberal baggage, and his image still comes across as that creepy uncle who just can't help himself when he's near the ladies, even though I don't think he has any harmful intent.

Beto; not progressive enough for me, and too early in his political life.

Buttigieg; same as Beto, and doesn't support a single payer health system, which every other developed country has, and which we can afford, if we'd stop playing Imperial Master of the Universe.

Harris; Ok, but nothing stands out for me.

Warren; My choice. The people's person. We have to return this country to the people, and get rid of the oligarchs/plutocrats/kleptocrats. No one "earns" a billion dollars a year.

Bernie; similar to Warren, but he's too old, and, once again, the Democrats (who seem to want to lose, as they just can't get away from Wall Street) are going to to do everything they can to keep him out.

Others; grasping at straws.

I'll vote for whomever the Democratic nominee is, but I hope I don't have to hold my nose like I did in 2016.
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Thorzdad
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Jun 16, 2019, 02:02 PM
 
The thing about Buttigieg is, if it weren’t for being gay, he’s probably the one in the field who’s moderate enough to maybe capture some edge-case conservative votes. I mean, you don’t get elected mayor of Notre DameSouth Bend by being a commie librul.
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OreoCookie
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Jun 17, 2019, 04:54 AM
 
@Thorzdad
I agree, and this is clearly Buttigieg's play to differentiate himself from Warren and Sanders. What is your feeling, do you think the Democrats will opt for a moderate like Biden or Buttigieg? Or will they go for someone who is more clearly differentiated from the GOP?
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andi*pandi  (op)
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Jun 26, 2019, 02:06 PM
 
Debates start tonight: thunderdome 2020!
     
andi*pandi  (op)
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Jun 27, 2019, 10:55 AM
 
Apparently, while Warren of course did great, Castro got a lot of attention last night. Beto is also a pretty good spanish speaker for a white guy.
     
Brien
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Jul 7, 2019, 11:42 AM
 
Can this trend of both parties moving to the extremes please stop? I don’t really subscribe to uber-right or uber-left. If this goes on will it be a vote for neo-feudalism vs. socialism?
     
Doc HM
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Jul 7, 2019, 04:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Brien View Post
Can this trend of both parties moving to the extremes please stop? I don’t really subscribe to uber-right or uber-left. If this goes on will it be a vote for neo-feudalism vs. socialism?
Is it though?

Here in the uK the common portrayal is that the Labour Party have morphed into some kind of neoStalinist ultra left clique. Except that when you look at actual policies they are stood broadly where the Conservative party was before Thatcher and neoliberalism came in,

From here it looks that 90% of the dems polices would have been happily campaigned for by mid 70s republicans.
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turtle777
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Jul 7, 2019, 10:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
From here it looks that 90% of the dems polices would have been happily campaigned for by mid 70s republicans.
Definitely NOT in the US.

-t
     
OreoCookie
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Jul 8, 2019, 12:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Definitely NOT in the US.
It doesn't look this way now, but in substance it is correct. Have a look at Reagan's stance on immigration, no way he'd pass the GOP primary now. The GOP has consistently moved further and further to the right over the last few decades.
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OreoCookie
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Jul 8, 2019, 12:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by Brien View Post
Can this trend of both parties moving to the extremes please stop? I don’t really subscribe to uber-right or uber-left. If this goes on will it be a vote for neo-feudalism vs. socialism?
It has helped me to unplug from the daily whirlwind of news and look at news stories in aggregate after they have cooled. A lot of the claims that position xyz is left-wing/right-wing extremist is perpetuated from someone from the right/left — it is their marketing spin. To take one example, AOC: she is one out of several hundred representatives who happens to come from a very liberal district, but she doesn't represent the Democratic Party. In much the same way a Republican from, say, rural Alabama is probably very, very conservative and nobody would be surprised by that either.

The other thing, which helps, is to actually check what policies parties have advocated for in the past, and see how their official stance has evolved over the years. Focus on the policies that made it into law. Take the GOP's opinion on immigration from, say, Reagan to Trump, or the Democrat's official party position on criminal law reform over the same period.
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turtle777
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Jul 8, 2019, 10:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
It doesn't look this way now, but in substance it is correct. Have a look at Reagan's stance on immigration, no way he'd pass the GOP primary now. The GOP has consistently moved further and further to the right over the last few decades.
I was more evaluating his statement that “if you look at actual policies [of the left,] they are [...] broadly where the Conservative party was before”.

-t
     
andi*pandi  (op)
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Jul 31, 2019, 02:24 PM
 
Good lines from the debates:

Bernie: I do know. I wrote the damn bill!
<throws hands up>

Pete: "It's time to stop worrying about what the Republicans will say. It's true that we embrace a far left agenda, they're going to say we're a bunch of crazy socialists. If we embrace a conservative agenda, you know what they're going to do? They're going to say we're a bunch of crazy socialist. Let's stand up for the right policy, go up there and defend it."

Warren: “I don’t understand why anyone goes through all the trouble of running for president of the United States to just talk about what we can’t do and what we shouldn’t fight for.”
     
OAW
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Jul 31, 2019, 04:03 PM
 
^^^^

Agreed.

OAW
     
Chongo
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Aug 6, 2019, 02:28 PM
 
Are there sane adults here?
     
andi*pandi  (op)
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Aug 7, 2019, 12:46 PM
 
Hmm, that doesn't look like it has anything to do with the democratic debates, or in fact anyone running for president.
     
Chongo
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Aug 8, 2019, 07:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Hmm, that doesn't look like it has anything to do with the democratic debates, or in fact anyone running for president.
No, but theses are the people that are driving the Democrats to the left via AOC and Sanders.
     
Laminar
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Aug 8, 2019, 09:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
No, but theses are the people that are driving the Democrats to the left via AOC and Sanders.
Chongo - in another thread you implied that Democrats/The Left are using hot-button topics - ones that get Liberals riled up, but are actually meaningless - to distract people from real issues.

What hot-button topics do you believe are being used to distract Republicans/conservatives?
     
andi*pandi  (op)
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Jan 17, 2020, 10:43 AM
 
In case you are still on the fence, the washington post has made a survey of 20 questions that you can compare yourself to the candidates on:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...eJ3Pwr_TBlhdTM

I got Warren and .... Steyer(?) tied for most agreement, with bernie, amy, and bloomberg (?) tied for second. Bloomberg is peppering my airwaves and social media with ads but I wish he would just spend his money elsewhere. Steyer at least seems to have policy positions.
     
Thorzdad
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Jan 17, 2020, 12:07 PM
 
I'd love to play, but WaPo links are paywalled,
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andi*pandi  (op)
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Jan 17, 2020, 12:31 PM
 
it wasn't for me? I don't subscribe. Maybe clear your cookies and try again, or in private mode. They probably only allow 5 free views per month or something.
     
subego
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Jan 17, 2020, 02:26 PM
 
     
Laminar
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Jan 20, 2020, 10:03 AM
 
Bloomberg - 12
Steyer - 12
Klobuchar - 11
Yang - 11

A Steyer ad popped up while we were watching something on YouTube and my 7 year old said, "Oh, he's lying." I'm sorry...how to you know that? "Grandma and Grandpa told me that everyone running for president except for Donald Trump is a liar."

     
andi*pandi  (op)
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Jan 22, 2020, 04:14 PM
 
Thought the family discussion merited its own thread. Carry on about candidates.

NYTimes endorsed both Warren and Klobuchar? I don't think an all women ticket will fly in the flyovers, but it's nice. Amy is growing on me.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...sultPosition=2
     
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Jan 22, 2020, 04:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Thought the family discussion merited its own thread. Carry on about candidates.

NYTimes endorsed both Warren and Klobuchar? I don't think an all women ticket will fly in the flyovers, but it's nice. Amy is growing on me.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...sultPosition=2
I don't think that's what they did. It's not a a POTUS and VPOTUS endorsement for a unity ticket. They are endorsing both for POTUS depending upon if one is more "progressive" or "pragmatist".

OAW
     
andi*pandi  (op)
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Jan 22, 2020, 04:57 PM
 
they didn't endorse as potus/vp, but that's where the mind jumped. Any good ticket balances the party lines, regions, etc.
     
OreoCookie
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Jan 23, 2020, 11:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
they didn't endorse as potus/vp, but that's where the mind jumped. Any good ticket balances the party lines, regions, etc.
Also, I don't think they seem like they want to be on the same P/VP ticket. Right now, Warren has a natural choice of VP in Castro, who seemingly has joined her campaign. Warren's campaign even had Warren/Castro signs, as if Castro was her running mate. Castro seems like a decent choice for Warren, and they already have chemistry from what I can tell.
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andi*pandi  (op)
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Feb 4, 2020, 06:07 PM
 
Iowa caucus might be its own thread, but the summary from twitter is either: a) haha, olds can't use apps, or b) dems are stupid. Regardless the votes are still being counted.

Warren, Bernie, or Pete? It's all good, as long as we don't eat our own.
     
reader50
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Feb 4, 2020, 06:13 PM
 
They didn't test their reporting app at scale before the polls. Must have done limited testing, with an idle server. Turns out it didn't scale well, and the single phone line for manual backup wasn't able to handle everyone using it.

I wonder if they went over bandwidth on an "unlimited" cell plan, and got slow-laned. Like those California firefighters. The choke point may not have been the app server.

Ars has some details. Each vote result uploaded included a tally (text basically) and a photograph to verify the head count. Odds are the photos were the bandwidth hogs on both network and server.
( Last edited by reader50; Feb 4, 2020 at 06:23 PM. )
     
Waragainstsleep
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Feb 4, 2020, 06:15 PM
 
While its obvious that any inanimate object should be preferably to more Trump, America clearly doesn't see things that way. Who has the best chance of these three to beat him?

I think the Dems best strategy might be to get Dwayne Johnson with a chainsaw to run as VP for whoever they pick.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
andi*pandi  (op)
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Feb 4, 2020, 06:29 PM
 
I... would vote for that.
     
OreoCookie
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Feb 4, 2020, 07:48 PM
 
Can someone explain to me why nobody in the US seems to believe in paper ballots? They just work.
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subego
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Feb 4, 2020, 08:39 PM
 
We still use paper ballots here.

The polling places I’ve been to will usually have a pair of electronic booths, which IIRC, are meant to accommodate people with disabilities, and the law requires them for this. The vast majority are still paper though, and I’ll only use paper.
     
turtle777
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Feb 4, 2020, 10:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Can someone explain to me why nobody in the US seems to believe in paper ballots? They just work.
Oh don’t be so naive.

Paper is harder to manipulate.
Fortunately, the DNC is too dumb to even rig a state Caucus, so I’m not worried about the general election.

-t
     
reader50
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Feb 4, 2020, 11:08 PM
 
My answer is the same as subego's. It's all paper here, except for an electronic booth or two. For those who request it.

Mail-in ballots (also paper) have gotten big in California. The vast majority of votes are mail-ins today. But if something important comes out right before Election day, those votes are already cast. For this reason, I always vote on Election day.
     
reader50
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Feb 6, 2020, 09:08 PM
 
OK, there was a bit more to the Iowa Dem result delays than previously reported. It seems Trump supporters flooded the backup phone line with pro-Trump calls, to disrupt the caucus results.
Donald Trump’s legion of followers flooded a vital telephone hotline used to share Iowa Democratic caucus results after the number was shared online.
...
Officials say the hotline’s phone number went public after photos of caucus paperwork were posted online. Users on the popular fringe internet message board, 4chan, then shared the phone number along with instructions on how to disrupt the caucus process.
...
Rick Hasen, a professor of election law at the University of California at Irvine, said any evidence of a coordinated attempt to thwart the hotline’s election reporting “could well be a crime”.
My take is there's no need to worry. Even if the pranksters are arrested, Trump stands ready with pardons. No need to convict anyone of any election crime.
     
turtle777
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Feb 6, 2020, 11:14 PM
 
You forgot to mention Russia. Surely they were involved. Putin personally directed the effort.

-t
     
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Feb 7, 2020, 01:08 AM
 
4chan is enough of an explanation for me. But if anyone famous did a prank call, that would indeed be news. I imagine the line is recorded for accuracy.
     
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Feb 8, 2020, 08:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post

My take is there's no need to worry. Even if the pranksters are arrested, Trump stands ready with pardons. No need to convict anyone of any election crime.
Given the dictatorial fangirling, hiring of sycophants, pardoning all his mates and shamelessly breaking laws and wishing to rig elections, are the press there screaming about his utter disdain for your democracy?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
andi*pandi  (op)
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Feb 12, 2020, 05:00 PM
 
Bernie and Pete take NH... Amy with the surprise 3rd. I'm not counting Warren out, but Biden appears to be fading. Yang, Bennet, and Patrick have dropped out. Lots of nice tweets to those guys from Liz and Amy.

But this is 2 down, 57 to go.

In other news, Bloomberg gets the republican vote in the tiny NH town of Dixville Notch.
     
andi*pandi  (op)
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Feb 23, 2020, 01:50 PM
 
Bernie wins Nevada, and seems to be taking that as a mandate. Biden still hanging on, Pete in there, Warren 4th, Amy 5th. Warren got a lot of steam from the Nevada debates after eviscerating Bloomberg on stage. Twitter approved.

News comes forth that in addition to pushing for Trump, Russia has also tried to tamper with Bernie's campaign. Odd.

Bloomberg blatantly paying surrogates to tout him on twitter for $2500 a month. Nice work if you can get it.

I think we already have a thread to track all the illegal and preposterous things Trump and his pals are doing... hard to keep a running tally.
     
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Feb 23, 2020, 02:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
News comes forth that in addition to pushing for Trump, Russia has also tried to tamper with Bernie's campaign. Odd.
I haven't come up with an angle on this. In 2016, Russia supported Sanders to weaken Hillary. Which didn't make sense either - polling suggested Sanders would have won against Trump in 2016. Hillary was pretty much the only Dem candidate who could lose to Trump, so Russia should have supported Hillary instead.

Today they're supporting Trump and the Dem front-runner, with polls again suggesting Sanders can beat Trump. Definitely weird.
     
turtle777
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Feb 23, 2020, 03:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
News comes forth that in addition to pushing for Trump, Russia has also tried to tamper with Bernie's campaign. Odd.
.
How is that surprising ?
Crying wolf Russia is a standard practice for establishment Democrats to deflect from their own incompetence.

-t
     
andi*pandi  (op)
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Mar 4, 2020, 01:35 PM
 
I wish to hell Bloomberg had dropped out before Tuesday. All he's been is a spoiler. I wonder how many early votes for Pete or Amy would have changed their vote if they'd known they'd drop out before Tuesday.

I am going to move the above general discussion to its own thread, and keep this about the democratic primary season, if y'all don't mind.
     
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Mar 4, 2020, 01:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I am going to move the above general discussion to its own thread, and keep this about the democratic primary season, if y'all don't mind.
I will only not mind if the title is snappy enough.
     
subego
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Mar 4, 2020, 03:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I am going to move the above general discussion to its own thread, and keep this about the democratic primary season, if y'all don't mind.
     
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Mar 4, 2020, 03:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
I will only not mind if the title is snappy enough.
The challenge is on!
     
 
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