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iomatic · Oct 15, 2008, 11:20 PM

The old style LCD on my current model is looking muddy.

I have the pre-Santa Rosa 2.33GHz MBP with ... 3GB RAM. What should I get for it, and which model will offer me better performance for the same dollars? I'm looking at graphics apps that work great now (PSD, AI, some FLA, etc.), and the occasional CoD:UO under emulation.

Thanks

mduell · Oct 16, 2008, 01:34 PM

I don't think you're going to get better performance for the resale value.

chipchen · Oct 16, 2008, 02:27 PM

Yea... you're not that far behind the curve with your machine that you're going to notice a big difference. Then again, if you just want the new one for the sake of wanting the new one.... I understand... and that's why I got it.

iomatic · Oct 16, 2008, 04:21 PM

Yeah. The LED light is pretty appealing (although I have a calibrator, I don't want to calibrate every month-- maybe a few months, but come on) over the already-meh screen of the version I have. I think I'll get a good deal ($200 or so difference, call it a rental). What would be a good price gap threshold before holding off on an upgrade.

I REALLY want an Air, but what do I do with my Firewire drives? Actually, one of them is USB/FW-- that wouldn't work would it; as a hub-- that would be too much to ask.

Blah.

analogika · Oct 16, 2008, 04:35 PM

No, that wouldn't work.

iomatic · Oct 16, 2008, 04:51 PM

^I know; I think two of the drives are USB, actually (whew)... I would get pushed over to the MBP for the faster drive option (that did seem to affect performance a few years back, I recall).

I REALLY want the lightweight Air (already have an ACD), rarely ever take it out on its own (maybe on the couch for the occasional freelance, browsing, etc.). Will be traveling more frequently for pleasure also. Work will provide an MBP. I play CoD:UO still.

Thanks for your opinions on the purchase weighing.

mduell · Oct 16, 2008, 09:21 PM

Buy USB(/FW) enclosures for your drives. They're cheap.

iomatic · Oct 16, 2008, 09:51 PM

mark, you missed my post.

analogika · Oct 17, 2008, 03:43 AM

Originally Posted by iomatic

^I know; I think two of the drives are USB, actually (whew)... I would get pushed over to the MBP for the faster drive option (that did seem to affect performance a few years back, I recall).

Don't bother.

Order yourself a faster drive from Newegg for less than Apple's upgrade price.

Installation is a matter of SECONDS.

The faster drive option should NOT influence your purchasing decision.

End of story.

iREZ · Oct 17, 2008, 11:36 AM

the only things that should sway you towards the mbp vs the mb are screen size, fw/express slot, gpu, and processor speed (not really that big a difference but that's if you're looking at the high end mbp which you probably aren't if you're considering the mb to begin with). I also don't understand this "muddy" description you're giving us. I have a first gen mbp and the screen still looks great on it compared to any macbook ever made including the new mb. don't believe me? just check out any viewing angle reviews of the mb and you'll see what i mean.

iomatic · Oct 17, 2008, 12:44 PM

The screen on my MBP (with a calibrator, and without calibrated profiles) look either muddy or too blue, even compared with my wife's 24" iMac, and my 23" Cinema Display (less than a year old, also fried and needs to be taken in-- damn that reminds me-- Apple's quality has been bugging me lately (some 15-year user here!)) it looks bad. I almost feel guilty dumping it on someone else; well I hope it's someone who's perhaps not terribly color-conscious.

Given your reasons, iREZ, I think I'm leaning toward the MBA; though isn't it difficult to upgrade (or even find the smaller form-factor) drive in a faster speed for that?

I understand the MBP can be quickly upgraded, but price : performance vs. Apple's installed one? I recall people had issues with "non" Apple drives (if they weren't OEM brands that Apple installed. analogika, can you explain your rationale again towards faster drive option influencing? I wasn't clear on which direction you were pointing me.

Thanks again.

iREZ · Oct 17, 2008, 01:02 PM

i thought you were deciding between a macbook and macbook pro, you mention mba in your last post which i assume means macbook air. if so disregard everything i posted. if not, then keep reading.

These new mb's and mbp's have made it even easier to exchange the hard drives once the bottom is removed from the machine. I suggest getting a 7200rpm hard drive and an external enclosure; insert 7200rpm drive in mb, take mb hard drive and pop it into the enclosure and now not only do you have the 7200rpm drive you're looking for but an external for possibly a time machine backup drive (if the 7200rpm drive is smaller in capacity than the internal drive that comes equipped with the mb).

As for issues with 3rd party HD's...MYTH. I've had a 3rd party HD in my macbook pro for the last 8 months and it's worked way better than the original hard drive (due to speed and size upgrades).

iomatic · Oct 17, 2008, 01:05 PM

Did I say MB? I meant MBP vs. Air, sorry.

sogbrightlight · Oct 17, 2008, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

Don't bother.

Order yourself a faster drive from Newegg for less than Apple's upgrade price.

Installation is a matter of SECONDS.

The faster drive option should NOT influence your purchasing decision.

End of story.

I'm about to reveal my computer illiteracy here when asking if I can purchase a SSD from NewEgg and pop it into the new pro. That seems like a viable option instead of bombing away hundreds for their upgrade.

Maflynn · Oct 17, 2008, 01:13 PM

yes provided you buy the SSD with the proper interface

iomatic · Oct 17, 2008, 01:22 PM

Forgive this one too, but if you bought the higher-end MBA, wouldn't you be getting a great deal on an SSD for <$700 (less than, because surely the faster processor takes that cost down)?

Thanks.

iomatic · Oct 18, 2008, 06:41 PM

Also, will I be hating the new SSD + 1.83GHz of the MBA

vs.

my 15" MBP 2.33GHz/3GB RAM + Radeon 1600 + Hitachi Travelstar 160GB perpendicular 5400rpm drive (installed by Apple)

?

Honestly, I hardly do any design work any more, and all my photography files are on the external drives. I also have an ACD. I do need to pick up a new CF reader (have a FW800 one), and a new SD reader (or combine both; I have the ExpressCard one now); for my two cameras.

Final thoughts here?

Poll?

marclapierre13 · Oct 19, 2008, 12:06 AM

Personally. I dont like the new MBPs, if i was to upgrade Id get the previous gen ones, maxed out.

iomatic · Oct 19, 2008, 02:55 AM

More rationale?

issa · Oct 19, 2008, 03:36 AM

Originally Posted by iomatic

More rationale?

Only marclapierre13 will be able to offer us his reasoning.

Still, I can tell you what swayed me to order a FEB '08 generation 2.5GHZ MBP over a new 2.53GHz MBP.

• In favour of the early-2008 2.5 GHz:

+ Antiglare LED backlit display without the shiny black bezel
+ Both FW 800 and FW 400 connections
+ Higher capacity battery (60-watt-hour lithium-polymer vs. 50-watt-hour)*1
+ $1,000 cheaper (!) with full one-year warrantee
+ No need to buy the Mini DisplayPort adaptor to connect to my 23" ACD
+ Slightly narrower and shallower dimensions
+ Slightly lighter
+ About the same overall speed
(2.5GHz Penryn with 6MB shared L2 cache; 4GB RAM ceiling; discrete GPU with 512 MB GDDR3 RAM)

*1 Granted, the new MBP should offer close to the same run-time per charge provided one (logs out and)
switches to the slower integrated graphics that shares system memory.

• In favour of the late-2008 2.53 GHz MBP:

+ The sexy appeal and solid build of the new "unibody" chassis
+ Faster FSB and newer chipset
+ (Arguably) the glass trackpad without separate button
+ Ability to use iPhone earphones (stretching it now to find advantages)

I think that about sums it up...

analogika · Oct 19, 2008, 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by issa

• In favour of the late-2008 2.53 GHz MBP:

+ Ability to use iPhone earphones (stretching it now to find advantages)

Not sure that's "stretching it", since it effectively translates to

"microphone input"

which is definitely a very nice addition, and hasn't been seen on a Mac since 1991.

kylef · Oct 19, 2008, 06:58 AM

Before I bought my new MB, I was really having doubts. 15" Pro Penryns were cheaper with arguably more performance in every way. I came this close to buying one, but held out. Now that I've had my MB for <24 hours I don't think I'll be giving it up anytime soon! Everything is seamless, it runs cool and I am a fan of the display.

I bought the top line MacBook and love it.

issa · Oct 19, 2008, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by analogika

Not sure that's "stretching it", since it effectively translates to

"microphone input"

which is definitely a very nice addition, and hasn't been seen on a Mac since 1991.

Well, the MBP already has a built-in microphone that works quite well, as did the PowerBooks that preceded it. So we're not actually talking about an additional function made available by support for the iPhone headset. Unless one wanted to quibble about possible differences in audio quality, or perhaps the ability to click on the switch near your neck as opposed to a key or mouse click.

In light of what I've written above, I don't quite follow the statement about this being something that hasn't been seen on a Mac since 1991.

analogika · Oct 19, 2008, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by issa

Well, the MBP already has a built-in microphone that works quite well, as did the PowerBooks that preceded it. So we're not actually talking about an additional function made available by support for the iPhone headset. Unless one wanted to quibble about possible differences in audio quality, or perhaps the ability to click on the switch near your neck as opposed to a key or mouse click.

In light of what I've written above, I don't quite follow the statement about this being something that hasn't been seen on a Mac since 1991.

The idea that this isn't necessarily limited to Apple's stupid headset mic, but will work with ANY dynamic mic using a simple minijack adapter, has apparently escaped you.

issa · 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

The idea that this isn't necessarily limited to Apple's stupid headset mic, but will work with ANY dynamic mic using a simple minijack adapter, has apparently escaped you.

So, what is different here than the audio input capability that has always been available via the 3.5mm audio input jack on almost every PowerBook (analog) and then on the MacBooks (analog/optical combo)?

Maybe I fail to get your point. But, with the exception of the original Macintosh Portable and the PB 100, support has always been there for dynamic mics.

------------

analogika -- Perhaps I should have been more clear about why I even included the iPhone headset in my original list. I did so under the premise that Apple's main advertising feature in supporting its "four-contact" jack is the added ability to control iTunes playback from the mic switch, (start/stop/skip to next track/skip to previous track), and maybe to chat using the mic in the same manner as when using the iPhone. (This might be handy when chatting quietly while one's significant other is sleeping in the next room, for example.)

iomatic · Oct 19, 2008, 06:39 PM

It seems an advantage; albeit a minor one.

I picked up an Air today (literally, not in the buying sense), and the new MacBook Pro in store. I must say that only made it harder; as for the screens, I'll write up a post about that in the other screen thread. They are both phenomenally well-designed objects that more than likely seem to have the processing power to back it up.

analogika · Oct 19, 2008, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by issa

So, what is different here than the audio input capability that has always been available via the 3.5mm audio input jack on almost every PowerBook (analog) and then on the MacBooks (analog/optical combo)?

Maybe I fail to get your point. But, with the exception of the original Macintosh Portable and the PB 100, support has always been there for dynamic mics.

No, there hasn't.

The input has been a LINE LEVEL input; microphones haven't worked without a pre-amplifier since 1991. The little microphone that Apple had - the PlainTalk mic - actually had a custom plug that gave the damn thing a power supply through the plug to drive the built-in miniature pre-amp.

The new MacBooks have a pre-amplifier and work directly with mic levels.

issa · Oct 19, 2008, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

The new MacBooks have a pre-amplifier and work directly with mic levels.

Ah, now I get your point. Assuming that Apple has added a pre-amp to the new MacBook Pro, it would eliminate the need to attach one to mics that needed it; and that certainly would be handy to some folks. Haven't seen any documentation to suggest that the change was made. But, if the iPhone mic will work, it's easy to figure that it has.

I gladly remove the parenthetical statement about "stretching it" in including the iPhone headset support on my original list.

jonnyz1245 · Oct 19, 2008, 11:55 PM

screen on all my previous MBP have never had a muddy look to them, even after 2-3 years of use as my primary machine!

iomatic · Oct 20, 2008, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by jonnyz1245

screen on all my previous MBP have never had a muddy look to them, even after 2-3 years of use as my primary machine!

Well, the quality just isn't there for me; I feel as though the brightness is extremely dull overall (yes it's turned up). My wife agrees. She's an artist, and I'm a designer/photographer, so I'm pretty sure our subjective statements are somewhat qualified.

kylef · Oct 20, 2008, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by iomatic

Well, the quality just isn't there for me; I feel as though the brightness is extremely dull overall (yes it's turned up). My wife agrees. She's an artist, and I'm a designer/photographer, so I'm pretty sure our subjective statements are somewhat qualified.

You are referring to the old MacBook Pro screens or the new ones?

jonnyz1245 · Oct 20, 2008, 12:48 PM

yes, I guess it is all subjective, isn't it? didn't mean to say you didn't know what you were speaking of, just that I didn't notice it on my previous machines. I do alot of work with photography and have been more that happy with my MBP's!

good luck!

iomatic · Oct 20, 2008, 02:34 PM

^Yeah; older 2.33GHz. They're definitely not as great as the newer models (though I didn't admittedly have them side by side, I'm pretty sure my visual memory was good enough to distinguish the difference, even given the different screen finishes and environments, lux, etc.).

But the MBA is a close second; so I'm already ready to buy that. I guess I was simply fielding ideas from people who may have considered moving (as a pro designer, or likewise, doing less freelance, have an external monitor-- I imagine this is a fairly large group; though whether they frequent Macnn, I've no idea), to see if they are weighing this option. I can see the contradiction in my rationale re: external monitor, worse screen quality (case for the MacBook), but the travel component is now becoming a factor. While traveling.

Ted L. Nancy · Oct 22, 2008, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by sogbrightlight

I'm about to reveal my computer illiteracy here when asking if I can purchase a SSD from NewEgg and pop it into the new pro. That seems like a viable option instead of bombing away hundreds for their upgrade.

I did this to my new MB with a 64GB Patriot. I then took the 150GB 5400RPM that shipped with my 2.0GHz and dropped it into an OWC external USB enclosure for Time Machine backups.

Would recommend doing this.