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You are here: MacNN Forums > Enthusiast Zone > Classic Macs and Mac OS > 9.1 is sweet, better memory handling

9.1 is sweet, better memory handling
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WiseWeasel
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Jan 14, 2001, 01:08 AM
 
I hardly lost memory anymore. With all previous versions of the MacOS, RAM disappears when you open and close apps, but with 9.1, the memory stays constant no matter what I do. The system feels smappier as well. Go 9.1!
I like systems, their application excepted. (George Sand, translated from French), "J'aime les syst�mes, leur application except�e."
     
Tominator
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Jan 14, 2001, 02:36 AM
 
Yay.
     
Camali
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Jan 14, 2001, 11:44 PM
 
My system only eats a little over 50mb of the 768 I have!

And if feels alot snappier too!

     
chris v
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Jan 15, 2001, 12:27 AM
 
I've had 9.1 running about and hour, glitch free.

9.1 does seem to manage memory better, so far. I opened apps until I was down to 34k free memory, and photoshop started to slow down. then I quit everything but PS and netscape. Snapped right back into shape.
Went to about this computer... and memory in use + largest unused block actually added up to 256!

With those apps open, and a large picture covering the desktop (warning! picture may cover the desktop ) 9.1 is using 78 mb of ram- not much different from 9.0.

I'm happy.

When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift.
     
elzinat
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Jan 15, 2001, 02:51 AM
 
speaking of memory management, there is something new in the memory control panel. "Disk Cache" size is no as longer limited! with 196 MB of RAM, my limit is now 32 MB, up from 8 MB.

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jeronimo
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Jan 15, 2001, 04:07 AM
 
Hummm, 9.1 just running... and it's going sweet. Maybe it is nonsense (you guys with more Macxperience tell me), but after a clean install of 9.0.4 and then updated to 9.1, my internet navigations is very good again... and the whole system seems more fast too...

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ginoledesma
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Jan 15, 2001, 04:28 AM
 
It still is a RAM-hungry OS, however.

Even though RAM is cheap, I shudder to think that the Mac seems to take more RAM as you put in more memory. It seem to grow proportionally. What ever happened to the "lean, mean OS" which required somewhere between 16-24MB RAM? The price you pay for features, I guess. Sigh. :
     
chris v
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Jan 15, 2001, 01:03 PM
 
Quote:

What ever happened to the "lean, mean OS" which required somewhere between 16-24MB RAM? The price you pay for features, I guess. Sigh. :

I was thinking about that last night- My first Mac was a centris 610 with 8 mb of memory. It ran system 7.5 & photoshop, although if you wanted a gaussian blur, you had better plan luch around it. I'm a little put off by the fact that my Cube is using more memory for the system than it originally shipped with. I think for the premiuns that Apple is charging for these systems, it would be nice if we didn't have to upgrade them just to use them, but hey, ram IS cheap.

CV

When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift.
     
Koen.
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Jan 15, 2001, 04:41 PM
 
Hmmm, in my experience so far with 9.1, I have the feeling that the free memory is decreasing after opening a few apps, and then closing them all, although it's only 2-3 MB. I never noticed this with 9.0.4.

- Koen.
     
DavidRavenMoon
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Jan 16, 2001, 11:36 AM
 
You should have Virtual Memory on in OS 9... it runs better (hard to believe but true)! And uses far less memory! I notice that apps launch faster and I have less memory fragmentation also.
G4/466, 1 GB RAM, 60 GB, 30 GB, OS X 10.3.5
     
petek
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Jan 16, 2001, 02:28 PM
 
Anyone have experience with VirtualPC 3 and OS 9.1 with Virtual Memory on? VPC has always had problems with VM in OS 9.0.4 and earlier. I've ordered 9.1 but haven't got it yet.
     
TriPhaze
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Jan 16, 2001, 03:20 PM
 
9.1 has given my old 8500/180 (233MHz 604e) a new lease on life. Awesome speed!

Internet got a nice speed boost also.

Looks like I don't need a new machine after all and I can do without DSL for a bit longer.
     
pcurtner
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Jan 16, 2001, 03:48 PM
 
Remember that you can disable a lot of 9.x to save some megs, if you're not using them:

Multiple Users cp & extension
Speech
Remote Access (if you have any type of Ethernet connection)
ColorSync
File Synchronization cp
ATI Radeon extension, if you only have a Rage 128
FireWire extensions
Software Update
etc etc.

I have no trouble creating and using multiple sets in the Extensions Manager; probably saves a few crashes this way, too.

As always, if you're not sure, leave it alone.

-p
     
Kay Autic
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Jan 19, 2001, 03:06 PM
 
well, crap-

I stand alone again. Everyone is enjoying improved memory handling, but me. 9.1 leaks worse than a US Navel warship at dock in port of Aden. I have 256Mb and when I open and quit apps it NEVER adds up to that. M$ and Eudora are the most troublesome, probably because I use them the most-duh. Is there a way to get that memory back without a re-start? Thanks for any info on this. Please resist the urge to suggest I use diff. program. I know M$ is bloatware, but I relish the self-inflicted pain--it's just a thing--you know

Kay Autic
*Advice to Pres.-select Bush: Jot it down.*
     
soul sauce
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Jan 20, 2001, 10:53 AM
 
You've all convinced me. I'm goin to go for it (9.1). But is it neccesary to restore or reinstal 9.0, to ensure a clean upgrade. I'm also suffering with conflicts/crashes, is 9.1 likley to help or hinder

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Soul Sauce
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Soul Sauce
     
Footy
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Jan 21, 2001, 01:28 AM
 
Hey Guys,

OS 9.1 is a big improvment in memory department. I have been losing memeory for years with the other OSs. With 9.1 I lose almost nothing no matter how meany times I open and close an application. Very nice improvement! I prefer not to use virtual memory, but I understand it's much better since OS9 came out. Maybe I'll give it a try.

Lloyd
     
ged
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Jan 21, 2001, 02:31 AM
 
i'm with all of you on this. the system now takes up only (!!!) 70mb of ram, as compared to >90-95mb under 9.04. wake from sleep is faster, apps open a tad faster, general handling is snappier. etc.

my only small problem has been that self mounting images (specifically, those created using stuffit compression) will no longer mount. please see my thread on that subject, and provide insights, if any, there...
http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/Foru...ML/002426.html


[This message has been edited by ged (edited 01-21-2001).]
     
nking
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Jan 21, 2001, 07:41 AM
 
DavidRavenMoon
>You should have Virtual Memory on in OS 9... it runs better (hard to believe but true)! And uses far less memory! I notice that apps launch faster and I have less memory fragmentation also.

I thought that virtual memory was always worse than real memory, or has it improved so much that it's actually better *on* now under 9.1?

Nick
     
MickS
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Jan 21, 2001, 02:26 PM
 
You'll find that older Mac Users (pre-8.0) will usually run with virtual memory off. This is a hangup to the poor VM implementation pre-8.0. It used to cause all sorts of incompatibilities.

Since 8.0 VM has been steadily getting better (I've always run with VM on since 8.5), however the older Mac Users like to cling to the "VM is bad" mantra (it's hard to teach an old Macite new tricks :-) ).

I've always run with VM on on my Pismo PowerBook and have no problems with the performance, even when importing Video from my DV camera (or playing it back).

Mick
     
sushu
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Jan 21, 2001, 06:23 PM
 
I've been using RAM Doubler since System 7. But as you said before, the MacOS VM got better since 8.0 . Is there still any need for RAM Doubler?

[This message has been edited by sushu (edited 01-21-2001).]
g3/315/320mb
     
Jim Retzner
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Jan 21, 2001, 07:39 PM
 
I installed the downloaded 9.1 upgrade this afternoon. After pulling the "OpenTptSerialArbitrator" extention things speeded up. Now it is running with more speed that an hour ago. Right on!
     
nking
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Jan 22, 2001, 04:39 PM
 
"OpenTptSerialArbitrator" what's that do then?

So does anyone have the definitive as to whether it's better with VM or without?

Nick
     
Richard Pinneau
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Jan 22, 2001, 05:45 PM
 
nking...
I think you can forget the idea that there are definitive answers.
You may have to try it both ways on YOUR system/hardware combo.
Some applications' Help Depts may tell you NEED VM on (but my experience has often contradicted it).
Some folks apparently have NO audio/video probs with VM, but in 9.0.4 on MY 400Pismo it disrupts playback of CD's with certain system events.
And if you look at Retzner's experience... the system performance can vary widely with the disabling of one little extension (and you'll not find that hint in any Apple documentation I warrant - and prob not in any Mac book in that'll come out within 6 mos of 9.1).
That's the great thing about the forums... When you have to do some experimenting around with your system to max its performance, here's where you'll get likely places to starts.
Thanks to everybody for sharing yours!
Pismo 400 192M Sys 9.1
     
Fredo
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Jan 22, 2001, 05:53 PM
 
A simple rule of thumb, not the definitive answer, might be: if you have less than 128 MB physical, use VM and double or triple your setting. If you have 256 or more, leave VM off unless you open many memory-hungry programs at once. If you have upward of 512, leave it off, and do anything you want.
Who are the Brain Police?
     
Bissimac
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Jan 22, 2001, 06:35 PM
 
I have found that with VM on, DVD playback is inferior to when it is turned off. I have 192 physical memory, and have VM set to 193, just to keep the amount required by the OS down. (VM reduces OS memory use by 10 -12 mb). As I dont often watch DVDs this isnt a major problem, I just remember to turn it off when I want to see a film.

Other than playing with extensions, are there any other ways of pulling a little more performance out of my iMac DV/400/192/OS9.1?
(Replies including the term 'G4' not accepted ;-)))
     
nextlevel
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Jan 22, 2001, 07:11 PM
 
Can someone help? I upgraded to 9.1, which is great, but only then realized one of my apps won't work with it. What is the easiest way to "down"grade to 9.0.4. I did not make a separate folder for the new one. Yes I know ... "and scarecrow what would you do if you had a brain?"... Thanks.
     
jeffnudi
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Jan 22, 2001, 07:59 PM
 
I had one minor problem when I upgraded to 9.1. EnterNet, the DSL software I use, would not start. I got a message saying the app was not installed. I uninstalled EnterNet, reinstalled it, and everything worked perfectly. No complaints, although I am not sure that there is a big performance increase that many seem to experience. Still takes a long time to start up.
     
alexkent
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Jan 23, 2001, 02:40 PM
 
the memory the macOS uses, does go up proportionaly with available ram, things like disk cache go up the more memory you have installed.

am i the only one to notice this or has 9.1 taken away the 999mb per application limit on alocating ram??

not that i have over 1gb of ram.

wish i did.
     
nking
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Jan 23, 2001, 04:31 PM
 
Richard Pinneau...
Hmmm, maybe I shouldn't have used the word *definitive* there.

Personally, I've always been a tinkerer. I've always had vm off where possible, because it slowed the responsiveness of my various systems noticeably.
Now with a G4 450MP, with 576Mb of ram, I'm not concerned about the memory requirements of my apps, but only with the *speed* of the machine.

My experience, then and now, vm slows yer system

Bye the way, *OpenTptSerialArbitrator* anyone? What is it?

Nick
     
muttfree
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Jan 24, 2001, 08:10 AM
 
>>>>>Bye the way, *OpenTptSerialArbitrator* anyone? What is it?

Well that extension is for use with Remote Access and dial-up connections only. It allows the ARA to take over the internal serial port whenever the modem needs to dial out, and then release it when not connected. If you are not on dial-up, disable it and all the ARA components, but NOT any of the other OpenTransport ext's..
HTH
You can have me mac when u pry me cold, dead fingas off da mothabowd :eek:
     
Richard Pinneau
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Jan 24, 2001, 01:35 PM
 
nextlevel...
You didn't say what software wasn't working, but...
are you sure you haven't given up too early?
There shouldn't be much that's absolutely incompatible if it run under 9.04.
You might want put a query in the Third Party Softoware forum and ask if any user of (whatever application) has found a way for it to work w/ 9.1 (lots of times it just a trashing of preference file)
Good Luck
Pismo 400 192M Sys 9.1
     
moreno
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Jan 24, 2001, 02:33 PM
 
Im using the 9.1 and When my G4 freezes, because the bad handle of applications such Internet Explorer and Outlook Express (ARRG MS), i can't try the force quit... the cursor stops and a white-box (without text, and the ok,cancel buttons) appears.
     
bezoar
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Jan 26, 2001, 02:00 PM
 
i did the downloadable update and it went very smooth. no software conflicts so far, but i have noticed that the memory handling is just as bad as OS 9.0.4 if not worse. with 256mb of ram i had programs open using only 40mb, and yet the OS was using up to 69mb. not only that but when i quit those programs, not only did the ram not free up, but i was left with only 100mb free, with the OS now using 56mb (total:156!). how did 100mb suddenly go missing in action? much worse fragmentation than 9.0.4!
     
Richard Pinneau
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Jan 26, 2001, 07:09 PM
 
With such diverse experiences, we need a tally of experiences for different hardware and software. MacFixit seems also to report generally positive experiences but with a few sufferers. Go figure...
Pismo 400 192M Sys 9.1
     
Cipher13
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Jan 26, 2001, 07:44 PM
 
OS 9.1 is less stable than 9.04. A tiny bit faster. I haven't noticed a difference in memory management.
OS 9.1f6 was much much faster. Zero crashes. Dunno about memory for it either... I don't pay much attention.
So far theres still some work to do with it...

PowerMac G4 400 (Sawtooth), 128 RAM (250 with VM). I'll chuck it on the Dual 500 soon and see what differences there are on a duallie...

Cipher13

[This message has been edited by Cipher13 (edited 01-26-2001).]
     
bezoar
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Jan 27, 2001, 06:41 PM
 
using b/w G3 400mhz 256kb ram, fragmentation is same if not worse, but not much instability.

cipher13 - what is 9.1f6?
     
Cipher13
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Jan 27, 2001, 06:52 PM
 
It was a pre release of 9.1 - final candidate 6.
Its a fairly old one. Not released to the public.
Like a beta, sort of. Except not the beta stage. Know what I mean?

Cipher13
     
bezoar
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Jan 27, 2001, 07:15 PM
 
aha, i see, thanks. (damn these double posts)

[This message has been edited by bezoar (edited 01-29-2001).]
     
Footy
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Feb 3, 2001, 05:15 PM
 
Hello All,

Well, time will tell! It did for me anyway.

As it turns out, memory is the same as before under 9.0.4.

When I first installed the 9.1 update my memory seemed to not be fragging after opening and closeing applications. However, now that I've been up for a couple weeks now, memory is the same.

Damit!

Don't know what is was at first that my free memory was doing great. I had an issue with my cable internet provider and thought maybe it was my browser or my system a few days after installing OS 9.1. So, it reinstalled both and zapped the PRAM. Guess what, it was the internet providers server (which had been fixed now) and not my system.

Did a new clean install of OS 9.1 after I got my CD and things are still the same with free RAM dissapearing. Guess I'll give VM a try and see if it help to prevent this loss.

Lloyd Francis
     
Footy
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Feb 3, 2001, 11:55 PM
 
Hey Guys!

OK, after turning on virtual memory things seem to be just fine and just as fast.

The free memory does not seem to be disappearing anymore either after opening and closeing applications.

So, I'm going to be running on for a while.

I'm happy,

Lloyd Francis

6500/225 Sonnet L2 G3/400, OS 9.1, 128 RAM (with VM on now)
     
MikeM32
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Feb 4, 2001, 04:33 PM
 
I just noticed this...........It actually seems that Virtual Memory actually WORKS now under OS 9.1

I had a system at work upgraded, and it was running sweetly for several weeks before I noticed that I'd not turned VM OFF as I would normally do

I noticed that My own mac here was hogging-up alot of RAM for OS 9.1, but with VM on it's at a steady 30-32 MB, and the VM seems to handle very very well now (which could also be partially due to the addition of a 19 GB Hard Drive as-well).

It's funny that Apple has finally fixxed the VM problems of old with thier possibly last "Classic" OS. Of course maybe it's also due in part because the new Macs aren't "sporting" 1-4 GB hard drives anymore

But then there's the Photoshop versus Virtual memory ON issue. They've never played very well together from what I've heard anyway. Supposedly this is due to the fact that Photoshop has a sort of "Built-in" virtual memory system, that conflicts with having VM on in the OS

Also I have 352 MB Physical RAM on here, but OS 9.1 seems to hog up wayy too much without VM on

Mike


[This message has been edited by MikeM32 (edited 02-04-2001).]
     
MikeM32
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Feb 4, 2001, 04:45 PM
 
I just noticed this...........It actually seems that Virtual Memory actually WORKS now under OS 9.1

I had a system at work upgraded, and it was running sweetly for several weeks before I noticed that I'd not turned VM OFF as I would normally do

I noticed that My own mac here was hogging-up alot of RAM for OS 9.1, but with VM on it's at a steady 30-32 MB, and the VM seems to handle very very well now (which could also be partially due to the addition of a 19 GB Hard Drive as-well).

It's funny that Apple has finally fixxed the VM problems of old with thier possibly last "Classic" OS.

Mike

     
Footy
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Feb 4, 2001, 11:31 PM
 
Hello again,

Well, as it turns out, I loose free memory even with VM turned on. Now I don't know what to do. Probable an Internet Explorer thing, but damit I like Internet Explorer. Not to mention I just spent all this time converting over to IE and trashing Netscape. Sounds like I'll be puting a daily restart on my to do list.

Lloyd Francis
     
   
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