[SuvsareRetarded]

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ

Dudes, if you have the kind of cash to be buying a PLASMA TV, THEN DO YOU REALLYCARE ABOUT YOUR ELECTRIC BILL?

Dudes if you have the cash to buy one maybe you'll buy the more efficient version that's a bit friendlier towards the environment.

[JoshuaZ]

As we all know, the Dude has like no cash, and is probably bowling.

That rug really brought the room together.

[Drakino]

I would fall in that quoted 60% of people who see rainbows in DLPs. However, I own a DLP and love it. Why? The only way I see rainbows is if I rapidly start moving my eyes around a lot, to the point of looking about several feet around the screen. I don't normally do this, nor do I know anyone else who does while watching TV. I went to a local dealership and watched several DLP systems for a while, and decided I definitely wasn't one of the people who see them all the time. Odds are, most people won't ever see them, or will only do so when moving their head around a lit.

For the price, I really couldn't complain either. Any plasma that works at 7,000 ft and also does 720p minimum would be probably 2-3 times what I paid for my DLP. I also don't have any burn in issues to worry about.

Rear projection LCDs are ok as well, but none were in the price range I was looking at. Got a Samsung unit with a DLP2+ chip in it, right before the DLP3 chips came out in force.

[Warung]

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ

Dudes, if you have the kind of cash to be buying a PLASMA TV, THEN DO YOU REALLYCARE ABOUT YOUR ELECTRIC BILL?

Errrr, YES YOU DO, if you live over here at least. Energie effeciency is one of the main criteria for buying any larger electrical appliance, since the price for electricity is pretty much completely outta hand by now.

That's also why I went with a LCD instead of a plasma.

[analogika]

Dude, everybody knows that Americans don't have to pay for energy - look at their gas prices and their electricity prices.

They have an abundance of everything.

Except in california.

[kikkoman]

Well, I've had my 50" plasma for about a year and it really has not made a noticeable difference in my electric bill. Of course it would depend on usage. I rarely watch TV on a regualr basis and mostly view DVDs rented from Netflix. I'd probably watch more TV if someone made a decent OTA HTDV receiver with a built in DVR. As for heat I'm sure the LCD runs cooler but my plasma seems to produce much less heat than smaller conventional CRTs I've owned in the past. My plasma did have an Energy Star sticker on it thought I'm not sure what that means when it comes to TVs.

[Warung]

Originally Posted by analogika

Dude, everybody knows that Americans don't have to pay for energy - look at their gas prices and their electricity prices.

Oh, right I forgot. Black Baby Jeebus™ supplies teh US with all the energy they need. That's why he told their Führer to invade Iraq.

Hheheheheeee

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by analogika

Dude, everybody knows that Americans don't have to pay for energy - look at their gas prices and their electricity prices.

They have an abundance of everything.

Except in california.

Huh? You obviously haven't seen this months gas bill.

[ghporter]

I stand and watch my refrigerator frequently. But it still doesn't fill itself... Darn!

I do not like ANY projection technology-and in particular, I do not like most DLPs. Not because of visual artifiacts, but because ALL projectors that I've seen have lousy viewing angles. Brightness off axis seems to drop exponentially, and iwth it color saturation and detail. Plus, the thin ones seem to distort the picture as you move off axis. Maybe some DLPs do better than that, but all of 'em I've seen do very poorly.

I'm not really in the market for a big TV right now, but I'm not going to go with any rear projection set. I may eventually build a home theater with a FRONT projector, but that's a different issue.

[jebjeb]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

That is sorta pointless to mention as there are no affordable 3chip DLP sets. Actually ZERO as far as I know.

Also I took a poll with DLP users and 60% of all owners said they saw rainbows.

I know, bit of a late reply here.

Depending on one's definition of affordable, the entry price into the 3-chip DLP front projection market basically more than halfed only a few months ago with this. http://www.avland.co.uk/sim2/ht300e/ht300e.htm

As far as I was aware, one was looking at about £13,000 + for a 720p native 3-chipper instead of the £6k now.

EDIT: Also, one would expect the 60% figure (regardless of how accurate it is) would be higher if you included the people who didn't buy a DLP because they noticed the rainbow effect. Not good if 60% of the people who made the decision to buy a DLP set notice the rainbox effect. Pretty bad buying decision if that is the case.

[Eug Wanker]

Indeed. I don't like rear projection TVs in general, but I especially don't like DLPs. The first thing I noticed was the rainbow effect, and I found it quite irritating.

As for LCDs and black levels... I don't mind current higher end LCD TVs. The black levels look reasonably good actually IMO, and much better than they did 2 years ago. Two years ago an LCD TV wouldn't even have been on the radar for me, but now they are. Plasma TVs are also in the running.

I haven't decided yet which to get, and won't decide until I'm a lot closer to buying. I'm still satisfied with my 34" widescreen CRT for the time being. I'll probably buy a new TV in 2008 (or 2007 at the earliest) once the HD war sorts itself out. I'll probably need a new TV for the new HD formats because my four year-old HDTV does not have DVI or HDMI.

It will be interesting to see what I can do with my current TV. It will be hard to sell then, and it's something like 175 lbs. I'm not worried about not getting a lot of money for it in 2008 though, cuz both plasma TVs and LCD TVs will be much cheaper to buy then. ie. I'll save a heluvalot more on a new TV by buying then than I'll lose by waiting to sell my current TV.

[Warung]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

As for LCDs and black levels... I don't mind current higher end LCD TVs. The black levels look reasonably good actually IMO, and much better than they did 2 years ago

I have absolutely 0 problems with the black levels on my LCD, and yes, a lot of the ones I looked at had a really good picture.

A lot has changed in terms of front projection as well, since new LCD projectors are entering the market at the moment.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Warung

I have absolutely 0 problems with the black levels on my LCD, and yes, a lot of the ones I looked at had a really good picture.

A lot has changed in terms of front projection as well, since new LCD projectors are entering the market at the moment.

You do, you just haven't noticed yet. Whatever you do don't hold it against a properly configured CRT. Your blacks will be bright and lack shadow detail.

[Dark Helmet]

Yoink

[Timo]

I can't believe no one's posted this yet:

Plasma TVs use more energy than your fridge

Yes, but I don't like watching my fridge

[SuvsareRetarded]

Originally Posted by Timo

I can't believe no one's posted this yet:

Yes, but I don't like watching my fridge

Tooki did on page 1.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Huh? You obviously haven't seen this months gas bill.

Sorry, I forgot.

****ing literalists don't do sarcasm.

*grumble*

[Warung]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

You do, you just haven't noticed yet.

OMFG, not in this thread as well. I spent quite some time checking that the black levels weren't off. LCDs have come a long way, and in terms of picture quality, resolution and black levels the TV I picked was the best in its price-range.

And that's not just my "opinion", it's a fact.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Warung

OMFG, not in this thread as well. I spent quite some time checking that the black levels weren't off. LCDs have come a long way, and in terms of picture quality, resolution and black levels the TV I picked was the best in its price-range.

And that's not just my "opinion", it's a fact.

Can you show us a review that agree's with you?

[Warung]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Can you show us a review that agree's with you?

Sure, I'll try and dig one up for you.

[SuvsareRetarded]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Can you show us a review that agree's

[removed ginormous image --tooki]

[Timo]

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

Tooki did on page 1.

maybe tooks isn't who you think he is

[Eug Wanker]

While rear-projection DLP has superior blacks, they're still projection TVs, and the rainbow effect is annoying to me. I find the blacks on high end LCDs (in 2005) Good Enough™, but these LCDs don't have the viewing angle drawbacks of rear projection DLP, nor do they have the rainbow effect.

Everything is a compromise, but for me a single-chip rear-projection DLP just won't be in the running. YMMV. My next TV will probably be a 45" direct view LCD, or perhaps a plasma. But like I said, I probably won't be buying another TV until 2007 or 2008, so everything may be different by then.

P.S. I think I might just have to give away my second fridge. I never have anything in it anymore. Thanks guys for reminding me. In the meantime I'll just unplug it.

[Dark Helmet]

Samsung said they are working on some new technology possibly using lasers that eliminates the colour wheel from DLP sets. Still wouldn't touch em till they are 3 chip.

[residentEvil]

Originally Posted by tooki

Why "confuse" the issue? Because what you said is not true. Single-chip DLP -- and ONLY single-chip DLP -- has the potential for rainbow effect (which many people do not see). Whether or not three-chip DLP is common does not change this fact.

Besides, what is "consumer" any more? The amount of money people have been willing to spend on TVs has skyrocketed as of late, much blurring the line between consumer and prosumer/videophile.

tooki

Up into your 'point' that my statement is false (which it isn't by the way, it is a valid statement in the context of the question Kilbey asked) the conversation was about consumer electronics (because all examples given where about technology you can go out and buy/touch/see at store). Not what movie houses use or what is now starting to come available to the public by special order or thru specialty shops. Kilbey was asking a question, was it DLP. And I said yes it is. He didn't ask if it was a single or 3 chip DLP that causes the rainbows.

You make it sound like I'm a liar, I wasn't lying to anyone.

Your statement is correct too, but it wasn't in the context of the question I was answering so butt out, or say/add to it...but don't imply i'm lying.

[tooki]

The fact remains that 3-chip DLP a) does not exhibit rainbow effects and b) is sold to consumers (admittedly, only those with with very fat wallets).

tooki

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by tooki

The fact remains that 3-chip DLP a) does not exhibit rainbow effects and b) is sold to consumers (admittedly, only those with with very fat wallets).

tooki

yes but as nobody here is buying one the point is irrelevant is what he is saying.

3 Chip DLP that only theatres have = Good
Consumer DLP = Sucks

[residentEvil]

Originally Posted by tooki

The fact remains that 3-chip DLP a) does not exhibit rainbow effects and b) is sold to consumers (admittedly, only those with with very fat wallets).

tooki

Yes, I know.

[tooki]

No, 3-chip DLP isn't in just in theaters, it's being sold for home theater. While $20,000 is far more than I could ever spend on a projector, that is less than the first plasma TVs sold for. Considering the AV setups some of the members here have shown off, a $20,000 projector is not "irrelevant".

And besides, irrelevance does NOT suddenly make false statements true.

tooki

[residentEvil]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

yes but as nobody here is buying one the point is irrelevant is what he is saying.

3 Chip DLP that only theatres have = Good
Consumer DLP = Sucks

I assumed mass/consumer in my response as that what the general discussion was about. Yes, consumer DLP right now, ack single chip, has more cons then pros at this point and time.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by residentEvil

I assumed mass/consumer in my response as that what the general discussion was about. Yes, consumer DLP right now, ack single chip, has more cons then pros at this point and time.

yup, I had one for 10 months. I should know.

[Cadaver]

I have two 42" HD plasmas and a 55" LCD RPTV (yeah, I know, RPTVs are not really the focus of the thread). While its pretty obvious that the plasmas through off way more heat than an LCD, it still seems much less to me than a large CRT would.

But heat-wise and energy efficiency-wise, LCD wins. My 30" Cinema Display barely gets warm, and its bigger than most LCD TVs.

[Persephone]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Can you show us a review that agree's with you?

I looked and couldn't find a review anywhere (positive or negative). Do you know of a site like "dpreview" for TVs?

-----

Sorry for the new handle, I needed to create a new one to continue here.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Persephone

I looked and couldn't find a review anywhere (positive or negative). Do you know of a site like "dpreview" for TVs?

-----

Sorry for the new handle, I needed to create a new one to continue here.

I don't want to say your LCD TV isn't good but I have done about 100+ hours on research on the matter and so far not one LCD TV has come out for being as good as other technologies.

I have had an HD-TV since 1999.

Here is my own experience:
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=223497

[kikkoman]

http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/artic...29,pg,2,00.asp

Some quotes relative to this thread:

"Today, vendors rate the life expectancy of high-quality plasma TVs at 60,000 hours. That works out to more than 20 years of use if you watch 8 hours a day, 365 days a year; it's also about the same lifetime claimed for LCDs and CRTs (the latter are similarly prone to burn-in because, like plasma TVs, they depend on phosphor-based displays)."

"What changed? Phosphors and gas mixtures in the new plasma panels greatly reduce the risk of burn-in, and some sets use burn-in prevention software. "If you're not worried about burn-in for your CRT, you shouldn't worry about it for your plasma TV," says the Society for Information Display's Larry Weber."

"As for power consumption, a study by Japan's Green Purchasing Network--an organization dedicated to promoting environmentally friendly purchasing by consumers, business, and government--concluded that the power consumption of similar-size plasma, CRT, and traditional LCD displays in real-world viewing situations is practically the same. However, the coming generation of LCDs that use LED backlighting, while expected to deliver significantly better color, will consume roughly twice as much power as traditional LCDs of the same size."

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

I don't want to say your LCD TV isn't good but I have done about 100+ hours on research on the matter and so far not one LCD TV has come out for being as good as other technologies.

I have had an HD-TV since 1999.

Here is my own experience:
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=223497

And you ended up buying a crappy TV. Sure, we should listen to you.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Railroader

And you ended up buying a crappy TV. Sure, we should listen to you.

Actually it was a lemon. Couldn't know that before I bought it. Now I got an amazing one so

What you got?

[SuvsareRetarded]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Actually it was a lemon. Couldn't know that before I bought it. Now I got an amazing one so

What you got?

The ability to try to bring everybody down so he feels better about his factory job and pointless life?

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Actually it was a lemon. Couldn't know that before I bought it. Now I got an amazing one so

What you got?

A TV I am very satisfied with.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

The ability to try to bring everybody down so he feels better about his factory job and pointless life?

I think this is a classic example of what Kevin calls projection.

If you feel bad, that is your own fault. I don't make you do anything.*


























* In the off chase I do: Go Do My Dishes.

[SuvsareRetarded]

Nah, I feel fine, but I recognize you take pleasure in trying to put me down as much as possible, like the good christian you are.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Railroader

* In the off chase I do: Go Do My Dishes.

He can wash, Ambush can dry.

[gofridge]

Originally Posted by The Windozer

The heat generating issue with plasma TVs can be solved by placing the TVs in the fridge. This will also solve the problem with the plasma TVs using more power than the fridge, because the fridge now will require more power to stay as cool.

There. Problem solved.

gofridge thanks you for the suggestion. His refrigerator door is constantly open so it should not raise his electricity bill much.

With gofridge's television set in his refrigerator, he will never have to leave his refrigerator to watch television again!

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Railroader

A TV I am very satisfied with.

In other words... your secret POS.

[Macpilot]

The color and sharpness of my Sony 42" CRT HD TV beats the pants off any LCD or Plasma.

Don't know how much energy it uses.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

In other words... your secret POS.

You keep thinking that.

I am sure it makes you feel better.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

Nah, I feel fine, but I recognize you take pleasure in trying to put me down as much as possible, like the good christian you are.

Actually, I am not the one putting you down. Hmmm... who's the one who always posts about me working in a factory and making fun of it? Who the one who called my children ugly demons? Hmmm... Oh yeah... YOU!

You seem to react very outraged and start spewing profanity whenever someone points how you made a mistake or were wrong in some way. You call peopl names at the simpliest provacation.

Those are the actions of an insecure person.

I am not "putting you down". I am pointing out your errors.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Macpilot

The color and sharpness of my Sony 42" CRT HD TV beats the pants off any LCD or Plasma.

Don't know how much energy it uses.

42" CRT!?!?! What does that thing weigh?!?

[Macpilot]

It weighs 300 pounds, but I don't move it very often.

[SuvsareRetarded]

Originally Posted by Railroader

42" CRT!?!?! What does that thing weigh?!?

I had to help a friend move a 30 some inch widescreen CRT HDTV. Holy hell did that suck!