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The Martian
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subego
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Dec 14, 2015, 02:51 AM
 
Frigging awesome.

It had flaws as a piece of cinema, but the brilliance of the story makes those pretty insignificant.

Where I think the story excelled is building tension out of what could potentially go wrong rather than having things actually go wrong. Fiction of this type will usually keep things going by having dozens of things go wrong, whereas this movie really had only four.

On the other hand, it set up hundreds of things which could have went wrong.




As an aside, this was my first "successful" 3D movie. The only other I saw in IMAX, which doesn't work for me at the normal movie framerate.

I didn't like it. I don't think shallow depth-of-field translates well into three dimensions, at least, not the way it was done here.
     
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Dec 14, 2015, 07:14 AM
 
I enjoyed this movie but I couldn't help but think it was essentially Apollo 13.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego  (op)
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Dec 14, 2015, 09:10 AM
 
I haven't seen it, but definitely heard talk of the parallels. I've heard the book described as "remember that scene in Apollo 13 where they lay all the stuff out on the table and say 'this is what we have, how do we make this work?' It's a whole book of that scene."
     
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Dec 14, 2015, 11:07 AM
 
It's a great movie if you haven't read the book first. A good movie if you have. The book is much better, as they often are, primarily because the move had to eliminate so much for run time. If you enjoyed the what could go wrong aspect of the story, read the book.
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subego  (op)
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Dec 14, 2015, 11:36 AM
 
I saw it with my dad, who read the book, and I get the feeling they're vastly different.

Not in general shape or anything, but in regards to what I said above. I am told the book has hundreds of things go wrong.
     
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Dec 14, 2015, 11:52 AM
 
It does basically follow the book. The first few minutes of the movie made me think it would be almost word for word. I did enjoy the movie, but the format just limits what you can do. The time span of the story was relatively long, and the book allowed for more thoughts, dread, considerations and calculations to be expressed. And, a couple of rather key events where eliminated completely.
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subego  (op)
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Dec 14, 2015, 12:02 PM
 
Didn't a lot more go wrong in the book?

I actually found it very strange nothing really bad happened between him getting stabbed with the antenna and the hab module blowing out.

Once the hab module blows out, and if you don't count the resupply mission exploding, the next bad thing which happens is the chute rips off as he's reaching orbit.

That's only three things.
     
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Dec 14, 2015, 12:08 PM
 
On a slightly different note, I was originally "WTF, why did they cast Jeff ****ing Daniels?"

Imagine my surprise when he knocked it out of the park.
     
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Dec 14, 2015, 03:13 PM
 
I've sadly become that parody where movies just don't measure up to the book anymore. Found myself afterwards in the unenviable position of criticizing Scott's directorial choices. I think the bottom line is you can make something browse appealing or some thing a little nerdier and you know which way Hollywood will go.

Kristen wiig was cast perfectly which is what made it even more frustrating that her role was cut down to almost nothing.

As for Jeff Daniels, I feel like he's been getting that type of role for a while. See: good night and good luck and also looper.
     
subego  (op)
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Dec 14, 2015, 05:51 PM
 
I missed those, so to me, Daniels is the hapless type.

There are definitely things to criticize about it as a piece of cinema. We had to see the Mars Relay Chat on screen, and have the actors give a completely unnatural reading of it?

OTOH, rather than have the rover flip, as I understand happens in the book, they'd have it consistently drive towards pieces of rock you think will flip it. Brilliant economy of storytelling.
     
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Dec 14, 2015, 05:57 PM
 
I enjoyed the book a lot. Made you appreciate the risks and ingenuity that being an astronaut requires.
     
The Final Dakar
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Dec 14, 2015, 06:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I missed those, so to me, Daniels is the hapless type.
I came to know him as the dumb guy from the Dumb and Dumber commercials. It made me scoff when he was in a dramatic role in Pleasantville. Little did I know D&D was the exception.

Not to detract from his abilities, but I really found his performance in the Martian to be a copy/paste of his Goodnight, good luck one. It was just another part of the movie I found uninspired. I know why they gave it to Ridley, but I just don't see a 80 year-old doing science-nerd porn justice compared to someone like a Rian Johnson or a Duncan Jones-type.
     
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Dec 14, 2015, 06:37 PM
 
Also, the using a clear plastic tarp as the hab "canvas" drove me ****ing nuts.
     
subego  (op)
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Dec 14, 2015, 06:46 PM
 
Why?
     
The Final Dakar
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Dec 14, 2015, 06:59 PM
 
Does "plastic tarp" sound as durable as "canvas" to you?
     
subego  (op)
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Dec 14, 2015, 07:07 PM
 
Not as durable, but more air tight.

Did he have a big enough piece of canvas in the movie?

And this goes back to the tension I was discussing. Using a plastic tarp for that is scary.
     
The Final Dakar
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Dec 14, 2015, 07:09 PM
 
Wrong question. That tarp prop was the 'canvas.'
     
subego  (op)
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Dec 14, 2015, 07:30 PM
 
So you're irritated he only had a lesser option available in the movie?

Isn't that sort of change well within the boundaries of an adaptation, or am I misunderstanding something?
     
subego  (op)
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Dec 14, 2015, 08:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I came to know him as the dumb guy from the Dumb and Dumber commercials. It made me scoff when he was in a dramatic role in Pleasantville. Little did I know D&D was the exception.

Not to detract from his abilities, but I really found his performance in the Martian to be a copy/paste of his Goodnight, good luck one. It was just another part of the movie I found uninspired. I know why they gave it to Ridley, but I just don't see a 80 year-old doing science-nerd porn justice compared to someone like a Rian Johnson or a Duncan Jones-type.
You know, I did see Goodnight and Good Luck, and I'd utterly forgotten about him in it.
     
subego  (op)
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Dec 14, 2015, 09:49 PM
 
Can I mention that unlike a certain other movie with Matt Damon and Jessica Chastain, space skype in this movie had macroblocking, not static.
     
subego  (op)
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Dec 14, 2015, 09:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Kristen wiig was cast perfectly which is what made it even more frustrating that her role was cut down to almost nothing.
I was told the character has a real potty mouth, which may have factored into the decision.

The struggle to keep the movie PG-13 was palpable.
     
MisterEqual
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Dec 15, 2015, 03:27 AM
 
It was a good movie. I liked it.
     
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Dec 15, 2015, 08:29 AM
 
It was fine, good effects, the pacing was excellent, and I felt his urgency/despair. Unfortunately, I feel it unraveled at the very end, where it went from being a cool survival movie and turned into a Michael Bay production. All that crazy shit was simply unnecessary and pulled me out of the story.
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subego  (op)
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Dec 15, 2015, 09:29 AM
 
Which part?

I felt the ending, while tension filled, was relatively low key.
     
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Dec 15, 2015, 09:46 AM
 
The whole extended space walk thing where she had to snag him from lower orbit, all at the very last moment. "OMG! He's not gonna make it, I gotta go get him!"
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subego  (op)
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Dec 15, 2015, 10:17 AM
 
Going out on the reel was the plan all along. They discuss it before Damon launches, and plan their orbits based on the length of the reel.

What was last minute was the orbit ending up farther away than the length of the reel.

FWIW, I didn't understand they were talking about the length of the reel during the planning session scene. I was only able to put together that was the subject from later events.
     
The Final Dakar
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Dec 16, 2015, 06:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
So you're irritated he only had a lesser option available in the movie?

Isn't that sort of change well within the boundaries of an adaptation, or am I misunderstanding something?
ACtually it was inconsistent. The Hab was made of Hab Canvas, but the cover on the exploded door was also jab canvas. Most galling, however was when they covered the nose of the escape rocket with the plastic tarp "hab canvas" which was a few orders of a magnitude dumber seeming than the real alternative.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
Can I mention that unlike a certain other movie with Matt Damon and Jessica Chastain, space skype in this movie had macroblocking, not static.
The blogging was done so extremely well.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
I was told the character has a real potty mouth, which may have factored into the decision.

The struggle to keep the movie PG-13 was palpable.
Where I start criticizing Scott's directing again – the message could be conveyed with clever interruptions and cut-aways right when the offending speech were about to occur. This is not the first movie to deal with this hurdle.
     
The Final Dakar
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Dec 16, 2015, 06:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
It was fine, good effects, the pacing was excellent, and I felt his urgency/despair. Unfortunately, I feel it unraveled at the very end, where it went from being a cool survival movie and turned into a Michael Bay production. All that crazy shit was simply unnecessary and pulled me out of the story.
In the book, the captain doesn't go out herself and Damon does not do the james bond glove shit. I don't recall if the guy detethered, either.

---

All my complaints aside, I feel that if you hadn't read the book but love Sci-fi this is probably a great movie. But having read the book, which is damn great, this comes in at very good to just good.
     
subego  (op)
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Dec 17, 2015, 08:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
ACtually it was inconsistent. The Hab was made of Hab Canvas, but the cover on the exploded door was also jab canvas. Most galling, however was when they covered the nose of the escape rocket with the plastic tarp "hab canvas" which was a few orders of a magnitude dumber seeming than the real alternative.
I could be mistaken, but I thought he used the Pathfinder drag chute to cover the escape rocket.

As for the hab module, was there a part of the movie where you saw a piece of undamaged hab canvas large enough to cover the hole?
     
subego  (op)
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Dec 17, 2015, 10:50 AM
 
I'm behind in podcasts, and chance has seen to it I'm at the point where people are talking about the movie.

A complaint I heard, all from people who've read the book, was that Matt Damon was too confident. There was tension lost in the feeling it's Jason Bourne trapped on Mars, not some science nerd.

Likewise with Donald Glover. "Really good looking actor/rapper/comedian isn't the guy to play a JPL nerd".
     
subego  (op)
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Dec 17, 2015, 10:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Where I start criticizing Scott's directing again – the message could be conveyed with clever interruptions and cut-aways right when the offending speech were about to occur. This is not the first movie to deal with this hurdle.
I think this would have just exacerbated the problem. The movie didn't need more examples of trying to keep the rating. It was already painful as is.
     
subego  (op)
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Dec 17, 2015, 03:02 PM
 
I'll see a few more before I set this in stone, but I feel this whole 3D thing won't get anywhere as a medium until people start making works which are meant to be 3D-only.
     
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Dec 17, 2015, 10:16 PM
 
Did anyone see this new show The Expanse? I found four eps so far and its really good.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
The Final Dakar
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Dec 18, 2015, 11:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I think this would have just exacerbated the problem. The movie didn't need more examples of trying to keep the rating. It was already painful as is.
Interestingly for all my gripes about the movie I don't recall this one.
     
subego  (op)
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Dec 19, 2015, 06:24 AM
 
The thing which stood out most was the censor on the Mars Relay Chat.
     
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Dec 20, 2015, 08:55 AM
 
Because it borrowed some cast from INTERSTELLAR ( Jessica someone and Matt Damon ) but didn't travel as far as in INTERSTELLAR, I would describe this obvious NASA advertisement " The Martian" as INTERSTELLAR LIGHT
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subego  (op)
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Dec 20, 2015, 10:39 AM
 
Except for the part where Interstellar sucked goat balls.
     
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Dec 20, 2015, 02:22 PM
 
Did not.
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subego  (op)
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Dec 20, 2015, 08:11 PM
 
1) Okra
2) Dr. Hugh Mann
3) "No, it's necessary!"

The prosecution rests.
     
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Dec 20, 2015, 10:29 PM
 
It wasn't great, but you're just being hyperbolic.
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subego  (op)
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Dec 20, 2015, 11:43 PM
 
I was going to put "Lucifer's dong".
     
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Jan 20, 2016, 03:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
In the book, the captain doesn't go out herself and Damon does not do the james bond glove shit. I don't recall if the guy detethered, either.
Saw it this weekend and totally agree. That was over the top and not where the captain belonged. Iron Man bit was also out of place, as far as the real science Watney did earlier.

The journey between bases was less tense because a) he hadn't exploded the pathfinder link to communicate with NASA, so b) navigation was a cinch; and he didn't roll the rover. That would have been a good scene on film. I would have rather had that then Iron Man.
     
subego  (op)
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Jan 20, 2016, 03:33 PM
 
I heard it mentioned the author really ****ed up some science, but did it too early on to fix it once he made the mistake.

Apparently, there's so little air pressure on Mars, 200 mph winds feel about the same as a light breeze. You only get insane dust storms because the dust is so fine. I'm told cigarette smoke particle fine.

Also, Damon would very likely get cancer. Not enough atmosphere to effectively block radiation, and what he had available was meant for a short(ish) mission. Not a half year.
     
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Jan 20, 2016, 03:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Apparently, there's so little air pressure on Mars, 200 mph winds feel about the same as a light breeze. You only get insane dust storms because the dust is so fine. I'm told cigarette smoke particle fine.
Haven't seen the movie, but I suspect that the idea of dust storms being an issue comes at least in part from Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars. In that novel, Mars is being terraformed in various ways, and at one stage early on has more or less constant dust storms. This passes as the terraforming continues, and I suspect that the author misremembered this passage, because Robinson makes it clear that such storms only happen because terraforming has started, including increasing air pressure.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
Also, Damon would very likely get cancer. Not enough atmosphere to effectively block radiation, and what he had available was meant for a short(ish) mission. Not a half year.
ITYM magnetic fields. Main reason we don't get fried here on Earth is the geomagnetic fields, although the ozone layer helps with some things. Mars of course has neither - the iron in its core is frozen and generates no significant magnetic field, and the what atmosphere there is is mostly CO2, which doesn't form O3. That is an interesting question, because the basic radiation out at Mars would be a quarter of what it is near Earth. I think you could shield yourself decently from that.
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subego  (op)
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Jan 20, 2016, 03:55 PM
 
No, I meant atmosphere, I just don't know what the **** I'm talking about.

And, I'm about to continue in that vein.

FWIU, radiation shielding for a space project comes down to a giant math equation. They can't give you enough shielding to totally block radiation. That would weigh too much. My understanding is they put in enough for it to be highly likely you will be protected for the duration of the mission (plus some emergency overage). If you quadruple the length of the mission, you're out of the "protection is highly likely" band.

Of course, that alpha particle with your name on it can get through anyways, even during a normal length mission. No one ever said space exploration was a cakewalk.
     
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Jan 20, 2016, 03:57 PM
 
Fun fact: solid human waste makes an excellent radiation shield.
     
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Jan 20, 2016, 07:18 PM
 
Oh, I totally bet he'd have all kinds of cancer happening due to sitting next to that "heater" at the very least. This does not detract from a "happy" ending for me though.

I liked the movie, damon was perfect, but it could have been even better.
     
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Jan 21, 2016, 04:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
FWIU, radiation shielding for a space project comes down to a giant math equation. They can't give you enough shielding to totally block radiation. That would weigh too much. My understanding is they put in enough for it to be highly likely you will be protected for the duration of the mission (plus some emergency overage). If you quadruple the length of the mission, you're out of the "protection is highly likely" band.
Did he really quadruple his dose, though? Because the mission is (trip out) + (stay on Mars) + (trip home). Only the middle section is increased, and that is the section with the lowest average radiation (because you are furthest from the sun, and radiation density is proportional to the square of the distance). I expect that the travel time either way is several months, and they have to plan for the risk of a solar flare in their direction, etc.
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Jan 21, 2016, 02:57 PM
 
The Hermes probably had decent shielding. Once it's built, it's never got to escape a gravity well, so they can give it more protection. I'm assuming they have a small section of the ship which is over-shielded, and everyone has to pile in there and live like a sardine for a few days if there's a solar flare.

The surface mission is different.

The hab is somewhat like the Hermes, it doesn't need to leave Mars, so it can be heavier, but they're still not going to be crazy wasteful with shielding mass. The real rub is the pressure suit. That's not going to be very well shielded. I'm guessing it's not shielded at all... and he spent a lot of time outside.
     
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Jan 21, 2016, 05:59 PM
 
Could be. Could also be that the suit has decent shielding (shielding against alfa and beta particles isn't particularly hard) and the dose of high energy photons that far out isn't enough to worry about. I'm just handwaving here - doesn't have to work in detail, I just need to come up with a way to make it reasonably plausible so I can suspend my disbelief. I could even handwave most of how that cannon in The Force Awakens might work.
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