Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > New Lion preview available

New Lion preview available
Thread Tools
TETENAL
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: FFM
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2011, 02:11 PM
 
A new Lion preview is now on Apple's website as well as a developer preview.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/lion/

New since the last preview are Versions, Resume and AirDrop.
     
Big Mac
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2011, 02:32 PM
 
I love this branding how Lion is so "iPad like." Not like iOS, like iPad.

A lot of thought provoking changes. It seems the release is shaping up, but I bet many of these new features are going to be somewhat controversial among established users. For example, I'm not too sure about the way Autosave and Versions will effect workflows. In general it's probably a good step, but there are exceptions in which autosave can be a killer.
( Last edited by Big Mac; Feb 24, 2011 at 02:41 PM. )

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
Moose
Senior User
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2011, 02:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
A lot of thought provoking changes. It seems the release is shaping up, but I bet many of these new features are going to be somewhat controversial among established users.
Oh well. "Established users" got used to Mac OS X's controversial changes ten years ago. They'll get used to Lion's changes this year.

Or they won't.

Regardless, I really doubt Apple cares much about the delicate UX sensibilities of the MacInTouch set.
     
Salty
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2011, 03:01 PM
 
AirDrop is gonna be really useful for a lot of people. And I'm very excited about the Mail UI being overhauled (finally getting rid of those gaudy buttons.)
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2011, 03:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
A lot of thought provoking changes. It seems the release is shaping up, but I bet many of these new features are going to be somewhat controversial among established users. For example, I'm not too sure about the way Autosave and Versions will effect workflows.
As far as I understand, developers need to alter their code to take advantage of these new features and then I'm totally fine with that. TextMate, for instance, already offers an Auto Save option when it loses focus (I don't use it, though). Versions will be great, because it makes the Time Machine interface a lot more useful.

I currently use git to do version control (something infinitely more powerful than Time Machine's Versions, but also something much, much more advanced).
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
P
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2011, 03:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
A lot of thought provoking changes. It seems the release is shaping up, but I bet many of these new features are going to be somewhat controversial among established users. For example, I'm not too sure about the way Autosave and Versions will effect workflows. In general it's probably a good step, but there are exceptions in which autosave can be a killer.
I think it's autosave in the sense that MS Office does it: If the app did not close correctly, opening it again will show the latest autosave for all open documents. Versions is probably just a way to browse (some of) these periodic autosaves.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
TETENAL  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: FFM
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2011, 03:32 PM
 
According to MacRumors resolution independence has been replace by the option to double the resolution. That's quite disappointing.
     
imitchellg5
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Washington + Colorado
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2011, 03:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
I think it's autosave in the sense that MS Office does it: If the app did not close correctly, opening it again will show the latest autosave for all open documents. Versions is probably just a way to browse (some of) these periodic autosaves.
No, it autosaves if you close it correctly too.
     
Big Mac
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2011, 03:37 PM
 
I guess autosave is okay as long as you can use Versions to revert to a pre-auto save state if you need to.

Uniting Mac OS X Server with the desktop version is notable. Makes sense that something like that would happen after the death of the Xserve, but the other option was just to kill the server tools outright.
( Last edited by Big Mac; Feb 24, 2011 at 04:00 PM. )

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
P
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2011, 04:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
I guess autosave is okay as long as you can use Versions to revert to a pre-auto save state if you need to.
If it works like the Office feature does, you don't have to. Any file you find in the Finder, you saved yourself. You'll have to use a special app to dig up the autosaved ones - or they're presented as options when you start the app.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Big Mac
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2011, 04:59 PM
 
Full screen apps seem very much like an unwanted iOS feature being forced on us. Many of us have traditionally derided Windows users for demanding constantly maximized windows, but now we'll have a feature that takes that request to the extreme and even seems to do away with the app's menu bar.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
TETENAL  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: FFM
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2011, 05:06 PM
 
It's an option.
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2011, 06:44 PM
 
Another great option that users get: OS X Lion Server is now part of 10.7, so any computer can be a server! I really start to take a liking to 10.7

@BigMac
What's wrong with optional features?
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
P
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2011, 06:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
@BigMac
What's wrong with optional features?
Developers designing around them making them not so optional. Considering what Adobe did with the interface in the latest CS, I bet they would make it mandatory so they can inflict their "Adobe interface" without distractions.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
0157988944
Professional Poster
Join Date: May 2007
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2011, 07:05 PM
 
Looks like we're still stuck with the weirdo green zoom button, as the fullscreen button is now on the other side. I can only assume the green button either still does random crap or maximizes a la Windows.
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2011, 07:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Developers designing around them making them not so optional. Considering what Adobe did with the interface in the latest CS, I bet they would make it mandatory so they can inflict their "Adobe interface" without distractions.
I think you should blame the developer for effing up the user interface, not Apple.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
olePigeon
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2011, 07:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Another great option that users get: OS X Lion Server is now part of 10.7, so any computer can be a server! I really start to take a liking to 10.7
As long as I can still use the Server Admin Tools.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2011, 07:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
AirDrop is gonna be really useful for a lot of people. And I'm very excited about the Mail UI being overhauled (finally getting rid of those gaudy buttons.)

Maybe Mail 5 will finally include some useful features so that it sucks less for people with large mailboxes.
     
indigoimac
Senior User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2011, 08:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
As long as I can still use the Server Admin Tools.
This.

Also, I'm looking forward to what they do with the mini now that they can't justify jacking the price of the server version.
     
Nassifer
Forum Regular
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2011, 11:17 PM
 
It seems to me that this is made for the mobile world, I did not see anything that talked about desktops. Maybe I missed it.

Abdi
     
Doc HM
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: UKland
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 25, 2011, 04:27 AM
 
Airdrop sounds interesting. Hopefully it wont have the usual shambolic Apple approach to actual functioning that Back to My Mac et al suffered from. It could easily be another one of those ideas Apple get instantly bored with.
This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
     
Doc HM
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: UKland
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 25, 2011, 04:29 AM
 
Given that OSX Server runs to £400 I wonder what rolling it into the OS will do for the price. I can't see them giving a server OS away for £25 unless it retains the current limitations on connected users, with a Pro version that maybe comes bundled with actual server hardware (mini)
This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
     
TETENAL  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: FFM
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 25, 2011, 08:27 AM
 
This cover-flow-like view still needs work:



A little bit ugly, if you ask me.
     
Oisín
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Copenhagen
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 25, 2011, 08:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Full screen apps seem very much like an unwanted iOS feature being forced on us. Many of us have traditionally derided Windows users for demanding constantly maximized windows, but now we'll have a feature that takes that request to the extreme and even seems to do away with the app's menu bar.
My general thought when reading through the new Lion page on Apple’s web site was that there were a lot of these fancy new functions that were really just functions that have been present in most other OSes for years, and which Mac users have staunchly derided as being bad UI design or just plain unnecessary; but which Apple have now suddenly decided are in with the cool kids.

The App Store (already been there for ages in Linux, Mac users only now suddenly realising it’s actually a good concept); Launchpad (optional, more useful, and a bit different from it—but still terribly reminiscent of Windows desktops cluttered app shortcut icons all over the place); full-screen apps (been an option in most other OSes for fifteen years …); Mission Control (revamped Exposé?); Conversations in Mail (been the default for at least Gmail for, what, four years?) … All these things will be useful, but they’re hardly new, and there hasn’t really been any reason for them not to be there before now.

And much of the other stuff is just bug/flaw fixing that should have been done ages ago, like the Mail overhaul (which we can only hope goes further than just a new design, but also addresses some of the rather astonishing flaws in the program itself) and Resume.

The only really new stuff to me seems to be the inclusion of Lion Server (to whatever degree it’ll be included), AirDrop (which sounds very useful), and Versions (which will be very welcome!). Not terribly impressive.
     
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 25, 2011, 08:57 AM
 
TRIM support is finally in!
     
Lateralus
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 25, 2011, 10:21 AM
 
Why has Apple turned monochrome happy with the UI? I don't think I can stomach it full time. I can't even stand it with iTunes; I reapply one of the iTunes 9~ UI hacks every time Apple releases an update.
I like chicken
I like liver
Meow Mix, Meow Mix
Please de-liv-er
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 25, 2011, 04:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
Given that OSX Server runs to £400 I wonder what rolling it into the OS will do for the price. I can't see them giving a server OS away for £25 unless it retains the current limitations on connected users, with a Pro version that maybe comes bundled with actual server hardware (mini)
Why not, it's not as if they're making a ton of money with OS X Server.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
lpkmckenna
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 25, 2011, 04:12 PM
 
The View buttons are now backwards? Push a button and it sticks out, and the non-selected buttons stick in? That's just stupid.



Here it is again, with the view buttons in iCal...



Here they've mixed it up, with the tool buttons on the left working normally, and the View buttons on the right working backwards.

     
TETENAL  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: FFM
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 25, 2011, 04:40 PM
 
Maybe those are not push buttons, but slide controls. Like the one that turns Time Machine on and off.
     
Big Mac
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 25, 2011, 05:20 PM
 
Yuck.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
Art Vandelay
Professional Poster
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: New York, NY
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 25, 2011, 05:22 PM
 
Yes, they behave like sliders.
Vandelay Industries
     
Luph
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Feb 2011
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 26, 2011, 12:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
Yes, they behave like sliders.
I don't get it. Why make them sliders? Wouldn't it take more effort to move a slider than to just click a button?
     
AKcrab
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 26, 2011, 01:01 AM
 
I think they are buttons that behave like sliders. Either way, it seems stupid.
     
imitchellg5
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Washington + Colorado
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 26, 2011, 01:33 AM
 
Depending on what input device you're using, it actually makes sense in some cases.
     
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 26, 2011, 06:20 AM
 
Wait - slider mean that the icons would have to slide around, as well.

Oh yeah, here:

YouTube - Inside Mac OS X Lion: New window controls

They don't.

So the thing DOESN'T behave like a slider.

Um. Weird. Why?
     
PhilCat
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Mpls Mn
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 26, 2011, 07:36 AM
 
It's about time we get to resize the window from any edge.
I always though that was a cheap shot from one corner only.

Try to line up multiple views for a screen shot.
     
Oisín
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Copenhagen
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 26, 2011, 07:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Wait - slider mean that the icons would have to slide around, as well.

Oh yeah, here:

YouTube - Inside Mac OS X Lion: New window controls

They don't.

So the thing DOESN'T behave like a slider.

Um. Weird. Why?


Are we watching the same video here? They look like they slide back and forth to me … (e.g., around the 1:11 mark, they’re sliding back and forth).
     
TETENAL  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: FFM
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 26, 2011, 09:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
How do you know there is more to see in a view, when the scrollbar hides?
     
cgc
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Down by the river
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 26, 2011, 09:11 AM
 
Yet another stupid GUI decision by Apple (YASGDBA)...wonderful. Let's hope it's at least snappy, eh?
     
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 26, 2011, 10:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by Oisín View Post


Are we watching the same video here? They look like they slide back and forth to me … (e.g., around the 1:11 mark, they’re sliding back and forth).
If you give something a physical appearance, it does well to have it BEHAVE like a physical device.

Yeah, the prominence whips back and forth as you click on it.

What happens to the images? What happens to images printed on physical sliders when you move the slider back and forth?

The animation, pretty though it is, is gratuitous bullshit and detracts from the graphical concept (and before anybody goes off on this tangent - very little of the animation in OS X is actually gratuitous. Most of it serves informative or associative purposes.
     
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 26, 2011, 10:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
How do you know there is more to see in a view, when the scrollbar hides?
I'm holding my judgement on that.

It's never bothered me on iOS - plus, there's an option to always show the scroll bars.
     
chabig
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 26, 2011, 05:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
According to MacRumors resolution independence has been replace by the option to double the resolution. That's quite disappointing.
Why is that? The Dock zooms quite elegantly. Let's base judgement on how effective it is, not how it's implemented under the hood.
     
TETENAL  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: FFM
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 26, 2011, 06:04 PM
 
It's disappointing because depending on your vision, screen size, and screen resolution some would like to freely adjust the size of user interface elements. Double sharp fonts don't help, if you can't read them due to their size.
     
chabig
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 26, 2011, 07:20 PM
 
Considering that the dock can be freely resized, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to freely resize UI elements. Fonts are completely different, and will always be rendered at maximum resolution, so reading should never be an issue.
     
freudling
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 27, 2011, 01:13 AM
 
I've got Lion Developer installed. It's sick!!!!!!! Mail kicks butt, the new scrolling, new launchpad, responsiveness, gestures and animations. It's just going to push Apple even further ahead. Reliability aside, best OS X eva.
     
Big Mac
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 27, 2011, 01:29 AM
 
Wow, mixed response from most of us except from freudling who is stoked. I'm surprised.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
turtle777
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: planning a comeback !
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 27, 2011, 01:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Wow, mixed response from most of us except from freudling who is stoked. I'm surprised.
Has anyone else actually "tried" Lion ?

It seems like most here just responded to what they read about it.
(Dunno if lpkmckenna and TETENAL just posted those pics, or took em themselves.)

-t
     
freudling
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 27, 2011, 01:45 AM
 
I've got the real deal here, using it right now, typing this in full-screen Safari mode. The iPad style scrolling is very good.
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 27, 2011, 10:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Wow, mixed response from most of us except from freudling who is stoked. I'm surprised.
I'm just cautious, because I haven't used it yet and I'm sure Apple is trying certain things just to get user feedback. They do have a record of rolling back changes that aren't popular with the users (e. g. when they introduced Chrome-style tabs in Safari).

I very much like the general direction they are headed: adding options for auto save, full screen apps (although I only use Aperture in full screen mode every once in a while), versions. Launch Control seems interesting, but I'd like to try it before I form a definite opinion.

Regarding `resolution independence,' I'm with chabig: it's a matter of how well it works. I think we can all agree that a true vector-based approach is technologically superior, but it seems very hard to implement. Apple's decision to scale the resolution by 2^2 gives the end user almost the same thing, but is a lot easier to implement.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
freudling
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 27, 2011, 10:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I'm just cautious, because I haven't used it yet and I'm sure Apple is trying certain things just to get user feedback. They do have a record of rolling back changes that aren't popular with the users (e. g. when they introduced Chrome-style tabs in Safari).

I very much like the general direction they are headed: adding options for auto save, full screen apps (although I only use Aperture in full screen mode every once in a while), versions. Launch Control seems interesting, but I'd like to try it before I form a definite opinion.

Regarding `resolution independence,' I'm with chabig: it's a matter of how well it works. I think we can all agree that a true vector-based approach is technologically superior, but it seems very hard to implement. Apple's decision to scale the resolution by 2^2 gives the end user almost the same thing, but is a lot easier to implement.
Oreo baby:

Man, just stop the hand waving and go try it already! Them come back and tell us what you think. Mmmmkay?
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:49 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,