[l008com]

I need a new primary credit card, and I'm looking for suggestions. Here are my criteria:
Must be Mastercard or Visa
Looking for the highest 'cash back' on ALL purchases, not just gas etc

I already have a amex gas card, that also gives 1% cash back on 'all' purchases.
But I still need a visa or master card as a primary card. Many places still don't accept amex. I currently have a fidelity visa card that gives me 1.5% cash back on all my purchases in the form of a deposit into a fidelity account... which you can simply withdraw right from that account as soon as you get it. However dealing with the company that runs that card is just too much. Every single month, they mess up something. I don't have the patience to deal with them any more. So I'm looking for something new. Worst case would be a 1% cash back visa/mastercard, but if you know of any cards that give more than that, spread the knowledge!

I also have a gm mastercard that gives 5% back, but only in the form of a downlpayment towards a new GM vehicle. But what they don't tell you is that most vehicles only let you use $1000 or $1500 of that money you save up, so most of it ends up going to waste anyway. I run a lot of business expenses through my primary card, so that 1.5% i was getting added up quick. It was like a nice little bonus every other month.

[tooki]

The Best Credit Cards - Compare Credit Card Offers and Apply at CreditCardGuide.com

[l008com]

Originally Posted by tooki 

The Best Credit Cards - Compare Credit Card Offers and Apply at CreditCardGuide.com

I think you just lit several spam filters across the internet on fire

[l008com]

I couldn't find any mastercards or visas on that site over 1% on 'all' purchases. Plus that site could learn a thing or two from newegg.com about drilling down!

[Montezuma58]

I have a Visa card from my credit union. It gives 1% back on all purchases for the first $5000/year and 2% back on all purchases above that.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by l008com 

Mastercard or Visa
ALL purchases, not just gas etc
> 1%

There's only one: Schwab 2% Visa. But it's underwritten by the same place as your Fidelity card, FIA Card Services. If you find any other options that meet your criteria, please share them, but I don't think you will.

Edit: Aw crap, I forgot they stopped offering the Schwab card 2 months ago. The answer to you question is no, there aren't any. But you can do a little better than 1.5% on your Fidelity card:
http://www.depositaccounts.com/blog/...n-express.html

There are a ton of 1% cards though. If you're willing to settle for that rate you won't have any trouble finding one.

If you are willing to compromise on categories, I think Chase Freedom is the best, if you can still get it (they're kind of rolling it back), just because they tailor the categories to what you actually have used. It's the only one that actually helps you land in the right bucket instead of helping you into the wrong bucket. But it's limited to $600 per month for the >1% so if you're a big spender you might not like it.

Edit2: actually, it might be worth it to talk to bankers in person. About 3 years ago my HOA got a 2% cashback-on-everything MC from Countrywide and I'm pretty sure that wasn't something Countrywide was publicizing at the time. It's just something we got behind closed doors because we had big accounts with them. We still have that card today.

[l008com]

$600 per month rewards, or $600 per month on the actual spending that gets rewards? i believe that's the card I was looking at earlier. It was 1% on everything, and 5% on 'moving' target categories right?

[Uncle Skeleton]

There's 2 versions, the first is 3% on the 3 or 5 categories (5 categories is if you have a Chase checking account) you spent the most in each month of 15 possibilities, up to $600 in spending ($18 in rewards) each month. 1% back is no limit. The second version is 5% on different set categories each month, just like Discover More card; I don't know about limits. It's confusing, I know. It might not be worth the effort.

[blackstar]

I have the Fidelity / FIA Amex card as well. Would be interested in what kind of stuff they mess up. I haven't noticed anything, but I also probably don't pay attention that closely...

[el chupacabra]

… …

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by el chupacabra 

I suggest you don't use a credit card. Anything related to debt/loans is an immoral practice. You should save your money and pay for things by check or cash.

Internet purchases by cash or check?

And besides, he is talking about his business, and not just spending for his personal consumption.

-t

[l008com]

Originally Posted by blackstar 

I have the Fidelity / FIA Amex card as well. Would be interested in what kind of stuff they mess up. I haven't noticed anything, but I also probably don't pay attention that closely...

They constantly shut off my card for suspected fraudulent charges. It's always crap from newegg, amazon and monoprice, the same places I buy from every week or two. It's a huge hassle to have the card start declining, then you call up only to find out they've shut it off because I bought yet another hard drive from newegg. Meanwhile, I get true fraudulent charges on my card all the time, they never catch THOSE. And I'm still working on getting the last batch of fraud fixed up from March. They ended up double-crediting me. Then they added all teh charges back once to try to even it out. But the charges didn't add up. THen they never sent me my new card after two months of waiting. So they have to subtract all these already wrong charges from one account, add them to the new card they never sent. Then subtract them from that and add them to the NEW, new card. Then they charged me a late fee for an statement that has $0.00 due because internally, each card is a separate account. So the $0.00 was for one of the cards, but one of the OTHER cards has a $742 balance. On a statement they never sent me. I'd been a constant stream of ****-ups since I got this card in 2007. I'd say an average of one every 3 months. And just when I get all of the fraud stuff finally fixed, and I get the surprise late fee removed, then they turn off the card for more suspected fraud. I don't have the will to keep dealing with these retards. That extra 0.5% (or 50% depending on how you look at it) just isn't worth it.

[turtle777]

Dude, all those places you mention take Amex.

There is no excuse for not using Amex. Really.

-t

[l008com]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Dude, all those places you mention take Amex.

There is no excuse for not using Amex. Really.

-t

a) my fidelity visa was giving me 1.5% vs amex's 1%, thats one reason

b) also, tons of other stores don't take it. Even my data center doesn't take amex. Lots of small restaurants only take mastercard and visa. And the ones that do take amex, they prefer you to pay with visa or mastercard anyway since they get to keep more of their money.

[Stogieman]

Who cares about rewards or points? What really matters is do they offer custom pictures on your card?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by l008com 

a) my fidelity visa was giving me 1.5% vs amex's 1%, thats one reason

Amex Blue Cash gives 1.5% after the first $6,500.

Consider the first $6,500 x 0.5% a "fee" for extremely good customer service that Amex provides. You won't regret it.

-t

[SVass]

Originally Posted by l008com 

I need a new primary credit card, and I'm looking for suggestions. Here are my criteria:
Must be Mastercard or Visa
Looking for the highest 'cash back' on ALL purchases, not just gas etc

I already have a amex gas card, that also gives 1% cash back on 'all' purchases.
But I still need a visa or master card as a primary card..... I don't have the patience to deal with them any more. So I'm looking for something new. Worst case would be a 1% cash back visa/mastercard, but if you know of any cards that give more than that, spread the knowledge!

I also have a gm mastercard that gives 5% back, but only in the form of a downlpayment towards a new GM vehicle. But what they don't tell you is that most vehicles only let you use $1000 or $1500 of that money you save up, so most of it ends up going to waste anyway. I run a lot of business expenses through my primary card, so that 1.5% i was getting added up quick. It was like a nice little bonus every other month.

My Visa card was issued by my credit union and gives the 1% cash back AND doubles the warranty on purchases made with the card up to one extra year which is nice if one is buying a computer or an HDTV.
sam

[MacinTommy]

My friends dad got one of these a little while back...

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by el chupacabra 

I suggest you don't use a credit card. Anything related to debt/loans is an immoral practice. You should save your money and pay for things by check or cash.

There is a BIG difference between using a credit card to purchase things you cannot afford (i.e., running up debt) and using a credit card as a convenient method of payment. I for one do not use my debit card for everyday purchases simply because it is MUCH harder to prove fraudulent use with a debit card + fraudulent use of your debit card WIPES OUT YOUR CHECKING ACCOUNT.

Secondly, it's not really too smart to be walking around with a lot of cash on a daily basis.

Lastly, checks? Really? Unless you are paying a bill through the mail, using checks at retailers is so last decade. I HATE IT when some old lady pays for her groceries with a check in front of me.

BTW, debts/loans have been a basis for business transactions for centuries. Even the richest people in the world use debt/loans to their economic advantage.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by el chupacabra 

I suggest you don't use a credit card. Anything related to debt/loans is an immoral practice. You should save your money and pay for things by check or cash.

Have fun buying a house, car, or phone contract without any credit history.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

Lastly, checks? Really? Unless you are paying a bill through the mail, using checks at retailers is so last decade. I HATE IT when some old lady pays for her groceries with a check in front of me.

BTW, debts/loans have been a basis for business transactions for centuries. Even the richest people in the world use debt/loans to their economic advantage.

The way I do my finances, I use my credit card to pay for everything, even my tuition. But as soon as I buy something, I write a check to VISA first thing after getting home. Then I just send everything in at the end of the month. Result: great credit history, especially for someone my age.

But yes, debt/loans are pretty much impossible to avoid. Try running a country without a national debt, it's impossible. The greatest civilizations in history also had the greatest debt. The key is debt and asset management. But that's for the Political lounge.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

The way I do my finances, I use my credit card to pay for everything, even my tuition. But as soon as I buy something, I write a check to VISA first thing after getting home. Then I just send everything in at the end of the month. Result: great credit history, especially for someone my age.

Right, that was my point. That's what the majority of financially responsible people do: use credits cards to make purchases and then pay them off every month. Absolutely nothing "immoral" about that as implied by chupacabra.

Another good point above: chupacabra, try to buy a house, car, etc. having never used a credit card/loan for anything. Your credit is going to SUCK. Might even be worse than someone who carries debt on their cards, but at least pays the minumum on time every month. The fact that you pay with cash/check for everything doesn't show anyone that you are financially responsible. Hell, even people who file for bankrupcy have to use cash/checks for everything for a period of time while their credit gets slowly repaired.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Have fun buying a house, car, or phone contract without any credit history.

If he's morally opposed to debt that means buying a house and car with cash. He won't have any problems. (did you think this through even a little?)

Phones he can use pre-paid if that's his lifestyle choice.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

If he's morally opposed to debt that means buying a house and car with cash. He won't have any problems. (did you think this through even a little?)

Phones he can use pre-paid if that's his lifestyle choice.

How many people can buy a house, or arrive at buying a house, without any sort of loan at all?

[TheoCryst]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

How many people can buy a house, or arrive at buying a house, without any sort of loan at all?

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Have fun buying a house, car, or phone contract without any credit history.

Done. Done. Done.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

How many people can buy a house, or arrive at buying a house, without any sort of loan at all?

Somewhere around 12-40% do it, more could if they wanted to:

Buying a House … in Cash - Economix Blog - NYTimes.com

I answered your question, now you answer mine: how many people would care to finance the biggest purchase of their lives when they are morally opposed to financing the smallest?

[imitchellg5]

How should I know? I don't personally know anybody who is against financing things like homes or cars.

[Railroader]

I wish more people could understand the freedom of not being a slave to their debt.

[The Final Dakar]

Here we go...

[Uncle Skeleton]

I'm glad more people don't understand the advantage of maximizing cash-back from credit cards...

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

Somewhere around 12-40% do it, more could if they wanted to:

Buying a House … in Cash - Economix Blog - NYTimes.com

I answered your question, now you answer mine: how many people would care to finance the biggest purchase of their lives when they are morally opposed to financing the smallest?

Please. That is for THREE specific cities, at least two of which are full of cheap condos being sold at significant discounts, not single family homes. Trust me, the vast majority of Americans purchase homes with loans, not cash, including the wealthiest people in the country. Nothing "immoral" about that.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Here we go...

You should have posted that long before I posted in this thread. I get tired of hearing people justify going deep in life long debt and encouraging others to do so. One of the reason we had this big mortgage crisis was because of inflated prices due to easy access to credit. It is relatively recent that homes are not bought with cash and credit cards being used so extensively.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

Please. That is for THREE specific cities, at least two of which are full of cheap condos being sold at significant discounts, not single family homes.

So what? Large areas of the country are full of cheap condos right now, you don't think the credit-phobes can live in condos? Large areas of the country are like Knoxville too, that's why it was included. Those 3 specific cities are representative samplings of the country, and if you think they aren't representative then you are welcome to show your work. I don't think you'll get very far.

Trust me, the vast majority of Americans purchase homes with loans, not cash, including the wealthiest people in the country.

60-88% is a vast majority. But they don't do it because there is no other option, it's simply the most advantageous option. 90% of computer users don't use Windows because they have to, they do it because it's the lowest hanging fruit.

Nothing "immoral" about that.

I'm not saying that believing credit is "immoral" is objectively right, I'm saying it's a perfectly valid lifestyle among others you might like to subscribe to. And don't rolleyes me; you're the one claiming that someone who abhors credit will suffer the inconvenience of not being able to get credit. Why don't you explain why that would matter to them?

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

It is relatively recent that homes are not bought with cash and credit cards being used so extensively.

Yes, exactly this. It used to be you would save up for something like a house or car. If you couldn't afford it, you rented and took the bus until you could. You might even have to save for more than 10 years (gasp!). People seem to think this isn't even an option anymore, which is a little bit horrifying.

[King Bob On The Cob]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

Yes, exactly this. It used to be you would save up for something like a house or car. If you couldn't afford it, you rented and took the bus until you could. You might even have to save for more than 10 years (gasp!). People seem to think this isn't even an option anymore, which is a little bit horrifying.

Buses don't run in loads of places, and if you're making any form of money the home ownership can be a significant tax break.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

So what? Large areas of the country are full of cheap condos right now, you don't think the credit-phobes can live in condos? Large areas of the country are like Knoxville too, that's why it was included. Those 3 specific cities are representative samplings of the country, and if you think they aren't representative then you are welcome to show your work. I don't think you'll get very far.

I don't know. I've never been in any other places in America quite as flagrant as Knoxville and Orlando...

[torsoboy]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

It is relatively recent that homes are not bought with cash and credit cards being used so extensively.

In the past, home prices were much lower and normal people could actually save up for one if they wanted to. From the 1940s to the year 2000, home prices (adjusted for inflation) quadrupled in price. That means that people living in the 40s only had to save 25% of what a person today would have to save. So, if it took them up to 10 years to save that much, it would take a person 40 years to do so today. link: Historical Census of Housing Tables - Home Values

I'm not saying that people shouldn't buy things with cash, I am just saying that you can't really compare a home purchase today with a home purchase in the past.

I agree that you should live within your means, and avoid debt for most things. There are two area where I believe that debt can be used beneficially though: 1) education, 2) a home purchase. Even for these two things, I don't suggesting maxing yourself out; be wise with what you're spending.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by King Bob On The Cob 

Buses don't run in loads of places, and if you're making any form of money the home ownership can be a significant tax break.

No, the interest you pay can be a tax break, and if you're so eager to spend a dollar in order to save 25¢ then I have a bridge to sell you.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

In the past, home prices were much lower and normal people could actually save up for one if they wanted to.

Easy credit is the cause of this phenomenon, not the solution. If anything, this argues in favor of the credit-phobic worldview. That tax break that was mentioned isn't helping the situation either.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

Easy credit is the cause of this phenomenon, not the solution. If anything, this argues in favor of the credit-phobic worldview. That tax break that was mentioned isn't helping the situation either.

He quoted me out of context to make his point.

My Quote:

Originally Posted by Railroader 

You should have posted that long before I posted in this thread. I get tired of hearing people justify going deep in life long debt and encouraging others to do so. One of the reason we had this big mortgage crisis was because of inflated prices due to easy access to credit. It is relatively recent that homes are not bought with cash and credit cards being used so extensively.

It says a lot that he deleted that when he quoted me.

[torsoboy]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

He quoted me out of context to make his point.
It says a lot that he deleted that when he quoted me.

My point was that you can't compare a home purchase today with a home purchase in the relatively recent past. Regardless of how/why the prices went up, normal wage earners today (~$65k/year, with a family of four) can't really save up for a home with today's home prices like they could in the past (even if they saved for 10 years). For the large majority of the population, the choice is either save for a down payment, or don't buy a home.

That has nothing to do with anything in your post that I didn't quote. Next time I will quote all of the non-relevant stuff too though, if that will make you feel better.

[imitchellg5]

I love you guys.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

My point was that you can't compare a home purchase today with a home purchase in the relatively recent past. Regardless of how/why the prices went up, normal wage earners today (~$65k/year, with a family of four) can't really save up for a home with today's home prices like they could in the past (even if they saved for 10 years). For the large majority of the population, the choice is either save for a down payment, or don't buy a home.

The price of homes hasn't changed (except the usual inflation). Since mortgages are pegged at around 2.5 times annual income, it should still be easy to save for a home and buy cash within 5-7 years (if you're going for it).

What has changed is that in the old days people didn't piss their money away on iPads, Playstations and all the other useless crap which is seen as "essential" in this day and age.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

What has changed is that in the old days people didn't piss their money away on iPads, Playstations and all the other useless crap which is seen as "essential" in this day and age.

This and also the average house is larger than in the past; you generally pay more for more house. And in the past more generations would live together in the house for longer before moving out. Doing it "the old fashioned way" is not as out of reach as the guy trying to sell you a mortgage and a car note would have you believe.

[Person Man]

I have no problem with the people who are able to live completely debt free and pay cash for things like a house, a car, etc. The problem I have is the attitude that many of them have towards people who use debt to accomplish things. Most of them (NOTE: I am *not* attacking anyone specific in here) act as though they are better than the people who use debt. THAT is what I have a problem with. And yes, I have seen that attitude on these boards just about every time this topic comes up.

I only have two long-term debt obligations. My house and my student loans. Yes, I probably could rent my home, but then I'm at the mercy of the landlord for anything major I want to do with the house. For instance, I replaced my furnace and air conditioner last fall. I'm using a third less natural gas and half the electricity I was using before. I paid cash (well, a check) for the furnace and air conditioner.

Saving up for a medical education is impossible, unless you're independently wealthy. By the time you've saved enough money the costs will be double. Part of the reason is that you have to borrow for living expenses as well because there is no way most people can have a job during that time. But I never borrowed the maximum amount and made sure that I didn't spend any more than I had to.

I even financed ("GASP!") my car because there was no public transportation that would take me to where I needed to be. The first year of medical school I didn't need a car, so I rented an apartment close to the school and walked every day. My current car was also financed, but now I have enough saved that I will never need to finance a car again (unless I can save money by doing so. Some sales incentives/discounts are dependent on having financing. Fine. I'll finance the car, and turn around and pay off the loan in full the next day).

I use credit cards (again "GASP!") regularly too. I never carry a balance, so I don't pay interest. If there is not enough money in my bank account to cover a purchase I don't make it. I use the cards for the rewards and for the benefits, like the cash back and double warranties.

There will come a time when my student loans are all paid off, and my house is all paid off and I too will be able to enjoy the benefits of living life debt free. But I'm not going to denounce going in to debt as being evil or a tool of the devil. Nor will I tell people that they are foolish for using debt in the first place. Yes, there are lots of people who rack up huge debt on their credit cards or buy way more house than they can afford, finance 100% on an adjustable rate mortgage and then take out a home equity line of credit on the house before the original mortgage is paid off, but there are still many people who use it responsibly as a tool (not a crutch). Don't make assumptions.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Couldn't have said it better myself Person Man.

Loans and credit cards are TOOLS that can be responsibly used. Can they be abused? Of course. But using them responsibly is not "immoral" as some people seem to think.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

Saving up for a medical education is impossible, unless you're independently wealthy. By the time you've saved enough money the costs will be double.

The debt culture is what causes this. You and I using the tools of debt that are available to us make it harder/impossible for people who don't want to use debt to achieve the same ends. Do you think education (and housing) prices could have gone up so much faster than wages without such easy financing options? I don't.

It's the same problem with credit cards: VISA charges the merchant 2% processing fees, the merchant raises all the prices by 2% extra, and the customer (sometimes) gets 2% cash-back from VISA. But the person who chooses not to subscribe to credit cards (or is unable because of their credit history) gets shafted.

Don't pretend that people who don't want to play aren't affected by those who do.

</devil's advocate>

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

Don't pretend that people who don't want to play aren't affected by those who do.

I'm not saying that people who don't use credit aren't affected by people who do. I'm saying that the people who don't use credit shouldn't act all high and mighty about it.

Every single time there's a thread in the lounge about credit cards, mortgages, loans, etc, there are people whose message basically boils down to: "Wow! Look how dumb you are for using credit! *I* don't use credit ever. Therefore, I'm going to gloat about how I'm better than you." They don't come out and say it, but that's what I hear when I read their messages.

Talking that way is not going to win others over to their side.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

I'm not saying that people who don't use credit aren't affected by people who do. I'm saying that the people who don't use credit shouldn't act all high and mighty about it.

So you admit that you knowingly take actions that disadvantage them, but you don't expect them to object? The same could be said about environmentalists who don't use fossil fuels; yes, we know that our use of fossil fuels harms them, but we're going to keep doing it anyway because it is just a tool that makes our lives easier, and they should just shut up about it. Same for Windows: yes, we know that making Windows a de facto standard makes it easier for hackers and harder for alternative OS users, but we're going to keep doing it anyway because it's just a tool that makes our lives easier, and anyone who doesn't like that should just shut up too. Right?