[U n i o n 0015]

Reporting in after almost a week of use with my new Rev. D 12".

Fans are extremely quiet. Even during heavy gaming, I find the fans barely audible and certainly tolerable. I am running the computer on a flat wooden table. So not exactly the coolest surface, but it's all I got.

The fans are much, much, MUCH better than my 1GHz TiBook which had some very loud fans. Those were annoying when I was trying to sleep at night and the fans were still running. I'd say the 12" fans are around 80% quieter. I can't imagine anyone complaining about them...they must demand almost silence from a fan because I think they're perfectly quiet!

[Fiete5401]

I really would like to post the numbers for my new 17"-'Book but Temperature Monitor doesn't work. It simply doesn't refresh the temperature data or the data is simply wrong.

Any ideas?

[Simon]

Originally posted by U n i o n 0015:
Reporting in after almost a week of use with my new Rev. D 12".

Fans are extremely quiet. Even during heavy gaming, I find the fans barely audible and certainly tolerable. I am running the computer on a flat wooden table. So not exactly the coolest surface, but it's all I got.

The fans are much, much, MUCH better than my 1GHz TiBook which had some very loud fans. Those were annoying when I was trying to sleep at night and the fans were still running. I'd say the 12" fans are around 80% quieter. I can't imagine anyone complaining about them...they must demand almost silence from a fan because I think they're perfectly quiet!

I think your report is consistent with quite a few other rev D 12" reports. Apple must have changed the fan design because it seems to be definitely more quiet than the rev A or rev B fans. As soon as I can get my hands on the technical manuals for disassembly, I'll check if design and part numbers have changed.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Fiete5401:
I really would like to post the numbers for my new 17"-'Book but Temperature Monitor doesn't work. It simply doesn't refresh the temperature data or the data is simply wrong.

Any ideas?

I'm afraid TM is (currently) broken on the new PowerBooks. But you could report on fan noise. Is the fan running when your PB is idling? What does it take to get it to ramp up? How loud is it (comparison with other noise maybe), etc. That would be very interesting. The 17" should be the most quiet of them all...

[wingnut16]

Had my Rev D 12" PB since the 7 of Feb and the fan noise is barely audible. The case temp when running is a little warm but not bad.

[duffyanneal]

My 15" 1.67 is ultra quiet. I've only heard the fans once and that was when I was running a memory checker. Even when they were running I could barely hear them over the quiet whoosh of my hard drive. Much quieter than my Rev D 12" PB.

[osxisfun]

are any of you in a hot environment.. it is winter and i noticed that when summer comes around fans kick in unless you are in an air conditioned environment.

[fisherKing]

my 12" revC was really quiet when i first got it:768meg ram.
when i moved to 1.25g ram, the fan started coming on...a lot.

currently, i am running energy saver at automatic instead of highest, and the fan comes on less often.

the revD i saw at the applestore:

1.looked the same (screen, etc)
2.was hot left of the trackpad
3.had it's fan on low.

not worth moving from a C to a D (imho); otherwise, it is a great machine.

[Simon]

Originally posted by duffyanneal:
My 15" 1.67 is ultra quiet. I've only heard the fans once and that was when I was running a memory checker. Even when they were running I could barely hear them over the quiet whoosh of my hard drive. Much quieter than my Rev D 12" PB.

Thank you! That's a very interesting comparison.

[philc]

Simon,

I will try to download the temperature utility this weekend and run some tests. Here are some comments on the fan, under normal usage it does not come on. This machine is extremely silent.

I copied my entire MP3 library via ethernet to the powerbook and did not hear the fan once. Then when importing the 4700 MP3's into iTunes the fan came on and stayed on until it was done.

The machine got hot but only where the HD is but it makes sense.

Phil

[Fiete5401]

Originally posted by Simon:
I'm afraid TM is (currently) broken on the new PowerBooks. But you could report on fan noise. Is the fan running when your PB is idling? What does it take to get it to ramp up? How loud is it (comparison with other noise maybe), etc. That would be very interesting. The 17" should be the most quiet of them all...

Ok, this will be a short report:
I haven't heard the fans yet!
I slowed down this beast to the level of an iMac G3/350 and there were still no fans. I opened 6 QuickTime-Movies (all looped and playing) with a lot other programs running PLUS an external 19" CRT.
This babie is incredibly quiet! (specs in my sig.)
My old 12" PB would scream under these circumstances!

The only annoying noise is the processor: I found some discussions about the NAP-topic in this forum and on Apple Discussions.
When the speed is set to 'Highest' the processor makes a high frequent noise. Set to 'Automatic' or 'Reduced' I can only hear the HD spinning.
I don't think that it will drive me crazy.

Jesus! Get this beast!
I already forgot that laptos can be that quiet! *dancing around the table*

[bleee]

I play World of Warcraft on my 12 inch 1.5Ghz PowerBook with 1.25GB ram and the fan is always going, it's noticeable at first but you phase the sound out after 10 minutes. I dont' have a utillity for temperature but I can tell you it gets quite warm.

[TailsToo]

After running Photoshop for about an hour, and doing other tasks about 3 hours before, here's my readings:

Processor Bottomside 135.9�F
Processor/Controller Bottomside 131.4�F
Power Supply Bottomside 128.8�F
SMART Disk ST9100823A 102.2�F
TRACK PAD 102.2�F

One of the fans is running, but it's really quiet anyway.

I'm not sure that the numbers are right, however. While I can believe the processor is that hot, the trackpad sure doesn't feel like it's 102�.

[osxisfun]

Originally posted by Simon:
Well, for one thing, most people don't like loud fan noise in quiet environments. It's legitimate to find out before you buy a computer if it will have this problem or not. You don't have to worry about it if you don't like and you may ignore this thread as well, but I don't think you have to tell others what to care about and what not.

And precisely because fan noise depends on many factors, it's important to get reports from many different people with different setups and different use on order to get an idea of the fan noise to be expected. Although the meaning of 'noisy' can vary among different people, there are many hard facts that can be used to adequately compare setups: Fans can be on or off, computers can be idle or not, temperatures can be below or above temperature thresholds, etc.

I'll give you a simple example. My 12" rev B has a nasty fan. It's not whisper-quiet when it's on. It's a pain. When my 12" is idle in a room temperature environment its temperature is at roughly 46C/115F and since that's below the fan's temperature threshold, there's no fan motion and the PowerBook is perfectly silent. As soon as I hook up my PowerBook to a 20" ACD this idle temperature climbs up to roughly 50C/122F well above the fan's temperature threshold (which is identical for all rev B 12" PowerBooks with the same system version btw), i.e. the fan is always on (even when the PowerBook is doing nothing at all) and there's always considerable fan noise. Now there are very many people with a 20" ACD and a 12" rev B PowerBook. And an idle Finder is fairly reproducible. Had people reported about this problem before I bought the hardware, I'd have bought something else (probably a 15" PowerBook with a 20" ACD because, as I found out later, people weren't having the same problem with that combo). Unfortunately, this thread didn't exist back then - the reports starting popping up later, well after I had already bought the hardware. So, to try to prevent that from happening again to me and others, there's this little thread.

simon,

I may be selling my dual 2.0 g5 and getting a PB rev D (the latest) 1.67 stock machine...

I plan on, using my dvi -adc connector to hook it up to my pinstripe 20" apple lcd...

do you know if this will cause my fans to kick in? or was this only on the ibook?

thanks


PS:
I'm a a fan hater and had a rev b powerbook but sold it because the fans would kick in too much and too loud..

are you guys saying that the fans problems have been solved with the rev D?????

any of you guys live or work in a warm environment?

thanks

[danny_gasperini]

My new 17" 1.67GHz/1Gb/100Gb/Super is amazingly quiet compared to my previous 17" 1.5GHz model.

The previous model would kick the fan in when the CPU hit 58 degrees celcius, and you could definately here it. It was a loud buzzing droning noise.

With the new 1.67GHz unit I have yet to here the fans come on. I cannot confirm the CPU temperature as Temperature Monitor doesn't update properly on this new machine. Playing games on Highest Enegy Saver, for over an hour and then trying to stress the CPU by opening GarageBand, QuickTime, iTunes (with visualiser turned on) all running at the same time to try an max out the CPU, I still didn't hear the fan. I could feel warm air exhausting from the grille at the back of the PowerBook and the bottom was about as warm as on the 1.5GHz machine.

I actually though maybe the fans werent working and so I booted up from the Hardware Test DVD, and ran the logic board test. All was normal, but as part of the test it switches on the left and then the right fan to maximum boost. Once this happens you can definately hear the fans, but it is more of a whooshing of air noise rather than a buzzing or humming like with the older unit.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[osxisfun]

thanks danny_gasperini


good info!

[markponcelet]

Rev D 17" Powerbook Noise and Temperature Report


Modifications from stock configuration:

Hard Drive The internal Seagate momentus 100 GB was replaced with a Hitachi 7K60 7200 RPM (60 GB) drive.

RAM 1 GB was added to the second slot, bringing the laptop to 1.5 GB.


Hard Drive Noise

Just as reported, the Seagate drive did make a tiny noise every so often that sounded like a ping pong ball being dropped on a desk from a low height. I was surprised at how quiet that nose was -- after reader complaints, I had assumed it would be a distraction. I could hear it clearly in my quiet living room, but it was still very quiet. This is probably not enough to distract, mostly because it is a rare sound.

Operation sounds were eerily quiet. I could hear the drive operate only when I moved my head close to the keyboard. Coming from an old IBM travelstar 20 GB drive, this is amazing. I could not hear the drive when it was idle.

I have the Seagate drive in an OWC plastic enclosure now. If it didn't have a blue light to tell me that it was writing, I probably wouldn't know. It makes a quiet hiss, but even out in the open, it's much quieter than a shell held to your ear.

The faster drive, the 7K60, is even quieter. I can barely hear the drive when it is writing and reading. When idle, I woulndn't even hear this thing if I had my ear pressed to the keyboard. Simply amazing. (And yes, it's extremely fast. It cut my bootup times in half even on a fresh install of Panther.)


Fan Noise

I have run this powerbook at maximum settings now for a couple of days. I've played games, installed programs, and run iPhoto to import and edit movies and pictures from my camera. Despite being very sensitive to noises, I haven't heard the fans yet. I can just barely detect a low rushing noise, but again I have to put my head close to the keyboard. Maybe three inches away. At one foot distance, I lose the sound. (Right now I'm in an office with only two people quietly talking and the clicks of my old 20 GB hard drive making any noise.)

Since the fans are so quiet, I've had trouble noting when they're coming on. But I am fairly certain that they've been on quite a lot.


Temperature

Since posters are reporting that temperature monitoring programs aren't being updated, I've delayed installing one. What I can tell you is this: This puppy gets warm and stays that way. The keyboard and the area where my wrists lie are both warm. It's enough to make you sweat lightly. If you want to know how warm, put your hand on the vents of a typical fifteen-inch CRT monitor.

There's a thin strip of metal at the top of the keyboard -- the border between the screen and the keyboard -- that gets extremely warm. I would actually call that hot. It's warm enough that I don't like to touch it for very long.

The 7K60 does not transfer much heat to the case. I've heard people tell me that the 7K60 actually runs cooler than the Apple OEM drive, so that would make some sense to me. When running, the superdrive generates more heat than the hard drive does.

[tkmd]

Dont the new (1.5/167 Ghz) machines run a cooler chip then the 7447A that was in the 1.25/1.5 models? Or is it the same? That could be why the computer as a whole is cooler.

[Simon]

osxisfun,

I have a 20" ACD that I hook up to my rev B 12" PowerBook and I plan on doing the same with my 1.67 GHz 15" (I guess that's rev C for the 15") as soon as it arrives (see footer).

With the 12" rev B it's fan horror, but from what I have managed to gather on the internet, the 15" should be much nicer in this respect. It's got a different CPU, a different GPU, supposedly a new fan design and it's got a bigger case, i.e. a bigger heatsink, but, it's also clocked higher. I'm anxious to see. I will report on temperature (if the tool works again by then) and on fan noise as soon as I get my hands on the hardware. You'll read it right in this thread.

[osxisfun]

thanks simon!

[Simon]

Originally posted by osxisfun:
thanks simon!

Anytime.

[hallvard]

I've followed this thread with great interest since I'm seriously looking into buying one of the new 15" Powerbooks: the 1.5GHz "combo" drive version.
I didn't see any mention of this particular model's noise levels -anyone have any experiences with it?

I've always had problems with noise when using computers except with my Atari STe before I connected a hard drive to it. Those were the days!
So when spending this amount of money I want to make sure I'm getting something I will really enjoy using. I won't be able to afford it and buy something else a few months later just because I haven't done my homework
(and noise really is a big issue when trying to concentrate on whatever you're working on).

So, what's the overall noise level of this machine? A lot has been said about fan noise here, but little mention of the hard drive which of course is a big contributor (at least in my experience, but perhaps this isn't as big an issue any longer, compared to my old SCSI drives)

[Simon]

For those of you having problems with measuring temperatures on the new PowerBooks, you might want to give Temperox a try. It works fine on my rev B 12".

[jzdziarski]

Hmm if OSX can't report the temp on the new powerbooks (after boot) then how do we know that the reason the fans are so quiet is because they're not being turned on at all?

[jzdziarski]

The new 12" powerbooks dont seem to have the same problem as the 15" and 17", temperature monitor actually confirms this problem on their 'what's new' page. I just ran temperox to see if it was any better, and it's still reporting the startup temperature:

CPU Bottomside: 25c 77f
CPU Intrepid Bottomside: 26c 78.8f
Power Supply Bototmside 24.75c 76.55f

Clearly startup temperatures, and not those that would reflect the system's real temp after being on for 5 hours.

[Simon]

What did it report on fan speeds and CPU voltage?

[jzdziarski]

CPU voltage was 0.9, fan RPMs showed 0 on both, even after I set my power manager to 'high' for a while.

[Simon]

Originally posted by jzdziarski:
CPU voltage was 0.9, fan RPMs showed 0 on both, even after I set my power manager to 'high' for a while.

I guess that's also a reason the newer PowerBooks stay cooler and are less noisy - the core voltage is only 0.9 V! My rev B 12" 1GHz has a core voltage of 1.12 V at 'reduced' settings. Good to know.

[jzdziarski]

ya the 0.9 was at "Automatic". It cranked up to 1.3 IIRC for "High"... but who knows if it's accurate; none of the other information is.

[Simon]

I finally got my own 15" 1.67 GHz PowerBook (1 GB RAM, 8xSD, 80 GB HD, 128 MB VRAM), so here's my take on fan noise and heat.

� Temperature Monitor doesn't work properly with the new 15" PowerBook indeed. But in the newest version it at least tells you so. Temperox also just gives you boot temperature values, but OTOH it can display current fan speeds and CPU core voltage - these values are correct.

� With automatic CPU setting and just an idle Finder after booting, you'll see a core voltage of 0.98 V. With CPU set to high, you'll see 1.28 V.

� Under load the 15" can indeed become rather hot, especially on the bottom and towards the hinge. But it's in no way too hot to touch or uncomfortable.

� With just an idle Finder the PowerBook has fan speed zero and thus it's very quiet. Apart from the HD (more on that later) it's absolutely silent. The wonderful part is that it stays that way even with an external 20" ACD attached. With my 12" rev B 1 GHz PowerBook the fan would come on an make a lot of noise just because of an attached ACD. With the new 15" this no longer happens. Even with the ES setting 'high' and both the PB's internal screen and the 20" ACD running, the fans stay off and therefor make zero noise. Just the way it should be. Wonderful! Much nicer than on my 12".

� The fans indeed come on when you put the PowerBook under heavy load. According to Temperox I have been able to push the fans to about roughly 1000 RPM. That's much lower than the fan speeds I have on my 12" (3000-6000 RPM!) and even at 1000 RPM the fans were so quiet that I couldn't distinguish them from the HD purr. That's a very welcome change compared to the nasty fan I had in my rev B 12" (although I've been told and I read here as well that the rev D 12" fan is supposed to be more quiet too).

� I haven't been able to really push the PowerBook to its limits and I haven't tried any 3D games yet, so I guess I haven't got the fans up to their highest speeds. I'll try that later on and report on fan speeds and noise under extended highest load conditions here when I'm done.

� So, all in all, the noise is almost zero and fan motion is negligible under day to day use conditions. The reason that it's not absolutely silent is however not due to the fans, but the HD. The 80 GB 5400 RPM Fujitsu is a bit noisy. It purrs, but it's well audible. Compared to the 5400 RPM Hitachi I had installed in my old rev B 12", it is really noisy, since the Hitachi was absolutely silent. I've heard that on some new PowerBooks Apple used Hitachi 80 GB drives, but others like me got Fujitsu drives. I don't know if Hitachi disks are morte quiet than Fiujitsus in general, but I'd sure be tempted to get rid of that last bit of noise in order to get the absolutely silent PowerBook. I'm wondering if there are maybe even silent 7200 RPM disks. I'd like to put one in if they're really silent; even more now that I see that my 80 GB 5400 RPM Fujitsu is not as fast as the 40 GB 5400 RPM Hitachi I had built into my 12" PowerBook.

Conclusion: The 1.67 GHz 15 " PowerBook is a godsend. It's fast, but very quiet at the same time. It stays quiet under load and with an attached external display.
If you're looking for a quiet mobile solution, this is it.

[guywithFX]

ok, so i got my rev d 12" last night and i must say that the fans never came on while surfing the net or using ichat, but when i booted up unreal 2004 the fans were blaring at full blast but there was absolutely no lag in the game, whereas on my old quicksilver 2002 powermac with an nvidia ti4600 it was a lot slower. i love the powerbok so far, but from what i've heard the 15s and 17s are a lot quieter. i was definately not dissapoited when purchasing my new baby, and i must add the the gig and a quarter of ram makes all the difference.

[osxisfun]

simon,


have you ever ripped a DVD using Popcorn or mac the ripper? I was wondering if that long intensive CPU process turned on your fans to a loud degree.


thanks

[Simon]

Originally posted by osxisfun:
have you ever ripped a DVD using Popcorn or mac the ripper? I was wondering if that long intensive CPU process turned on your fans to a loud degree.

Yes, I have. I use MTR from time to time. The fan does indeed come on and rev up, but even at its maximum speed, it's nowhere near as loud as the one I had in my rev B 12". The 15" rev C fan is very quiet - even when it's running at high rpm.

[osxisfun]

Originally posted by Simon:
The 15" rev C fan is very quiet - even when it's running at high rpm.

You mean rev D? or are the latest versions called rev C. its all so confusing.






thanks!

[Simon]

Originally posted by osxisfun:
You mean rev D? or are the latest versions called rev C. its all so confusing.

The latest 15" (1.5 and 1.67 GHz) are rev C because the 15" was still a Ti when the rev A 12" and 17" came out. Aluminum 15" revisions are one behind the others. While the 12" and 17" are now at D, the 15" is at C.

Code:
     12"          15"          17"
A    867 MHz      1.0/1.25     1.0 GHz
B    1.0 GHz      1.33/1.5     1.33 GHz
C    1.33 GHz     1.5/1.67     1.5 GHz
D    1.5 GHz                   1.67 GHz

[osxisfun]

wow. almost makes you wish apple used calendar years for their models.


2005 Nissan Sentra
2005 Powerbook 15"

[olePigeon]

I have a Rev D 15" PowerBook (1.67/768/128) and either the fans never come on for the few months I've owned it, or the fans are extremely quiet.

My PowerBook's at 32.5 C after a few hours use.

[Simon]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
I have a Rev D 15" PowerBook (1.67/768/128) and either the fans never come on for the few months I've owned it, or the fans are extremely quiet.

My PowerBook's at 32.5 C after a few hours use.

Hmm, how did you measure that temp? The new 15"/17" PowerBooks don't give updated temperature values back to the tools we used to use. All you now normally get to see is the temperature at boot time.

But, yes, the fans are very quiet. And they only come on when you put it under high load for sustained periods of time.

[Pierre B.]

Thanks for the detailed temperature report, Simon. Could you try some games and tell us what you see in regard to fan activity and temperature? I don't mean the latest of the FPS genre, but something like those:

Hardwood Solitaire III

or some of the Big Bang Board Freeverse Games, for example Big Bang Chess

What about DVD playback? What are the temperatures and fan activity? And for how long the battery lasts when viewing a DVD?

EDIT: how much fan noise do you have when you run the iTunes visuals for some time?

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by Simon:
Hmm, how did you measure that temp? The new 15"/17" PowerBooks don't give updated temperature values back to the tools we used to use. All you now normally get to see is the temperature at boot time.

But, yes, the fans are very quiet. And they only come on when you put it under high load for sustained periods of time.

In the very first thread someone provides a link for a program to check your temperature.

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/12381

[Simon]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
In the very first thread someone provides a link for a program to check your temperature.

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/12381

Well, yeah, duh, I provided that link myself, but the app doesn't work with the new PowerBooks and btw it mentions that when you start it on a new PowerBook.

The problem is, the temp reading you get with TemperatureMonitor are the temps at boot time, not up-to-date temp readings.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Pierre B.:
Thanks for the detailed temperature report, Simon. Could you try some games and tell us what you see in regard to fan activity and temperature? I don't mean the latest of the FPS genre, but something like...

The only way I got the fans to rev up with games was using 3D shooters like MoH or CoD. There I get the fans to speed up quickly. I'm wondering if it has to do with the GPU and OpenGL, as I've seen the same behavior also with XPlane.

But, as I have mentioned in the past, when the fans are running, it's more like a purr than like a blower. It's much less noisy than the rev B 12" fan and it blends into the background much better, I guess due to less higher frequencies, but I haven't hooked up a spectrum analyzer to a microphone (yet) to verify this.

What about DVD playback? What are the temperatures and fan activity? And for how long the battery lasts when viewing a DVD?

No fan during DVD playback or at least nothing that could be heard beside the DVD drive. Not even when the PowerBook is lying on the bed. Again, completely different compared to the rev B 12". The PowerBook can get hot (especially on the underside), but not hotter than the 12". OTOH it's definitely much more quiet.

The battery lasts well over three hours with screen brightness dimmed down somewhat and AP/BT off. The capacity of my new 15" battery is 4540 mAh (?).

how much fan noise do you have when you run the iTunes visuals for some time?

I'll have to try that first, but I'm at the lab right now and the servers in the rack next to me and under the table are much to loud to do such testing. I'll have to do it at home in my quiet library.