[Ted L. Nancy]

Ok.. I'm finally going to cave and get a Blu-ray drive for my Mac Pro. Does Apple's DVD Player app support Blu-ray? What is the best application for playing Blu-ray discs?

Apologies for slipping my next question into the software forum, but does anyone have any recommendations in terms of which brand / model I should purchase? I don't need a burner, just a good, reliable drive for my Mac Pro's lower bay.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Ted L. Nancy 

Does Apple's DVD Player app support Blu-ray?

what? No, Apple thinks you should buy their low bitrate half resolution content from iTunes.

Originally Posted by Ted L. Nancy 

What is the best application for playing Blu-ray discs?

If you want to do it in OS X, rip the disk with MakeMKV then play it in VLC/mplayer/maybe even QuickTime with Perian. If you want to do it in Windows there are a couple commercial options (PowerDVD, WinDVD, etc) that sometimes come free with the drive.

Originally Posted by Ted L. Nancy 

Apologies for slipping my next question into the software forum, but does anyone have any recommendations in terms of which brand / model I should purchase? I don't need a burner, just a good, reliable drive for my Mac Pro's lower bay.

It's tough to beat the $50 Lite-On 4x for value although if you're going to have to rip you may want to splurge for the $80 Samsung 8x or even the $85 LG 10x. Burners aren't much more, $110 for an LG that writes at 10x and reads at 8x.

[Big Mac]

How could anyone think that an app called DVD Player could support Blu-ray?

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

How could anyone think that an app called DVD Player could support Blu-ray?

OTOH it greatly amused me that the Blu-ray playing apps are called PowerDVD and WinDVD.

[AKcrab]

I had the pleasure of receiving some training from three apple guys recently. I made the mistake of asking them about blu-ray.

If you hadn't heard my question and only their response, you would have thought I had asked them the best way to kill a puppy.

We'll never see blu-ray in a Mac.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Burners aren't much more, $110 for an LG that writes at 10x and reads at 8x.

Only for Windows.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by AKcrab 

I had the pleasure of receiving some training from three apple guys recently. I made the mistake of asking them about blu-ray.

If you hadn't heard my question and only their response, you would have thought I had asked them the best way to kill a puppy.

We'll never see blu-ray in a Mac.

What kind of Apple guys were they?

Apple store Apple guys? I don't think they know too much what's going on in the board rooms.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

How could anyone think that an app called DVD Player could support Blu-ray?

Well, DVD Player does play my home made HD DVDs. ie. DVD Player will in fact play H.264 discs. You need the version that came with OS X 10.4.8 or later.

It won't play Blu-ray though, home made or not.

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

Only for Windows.

Not true. Just don't expect to play back commercial Blu-ray video discs. I'm considering getting a Blu-ray burner for my iMac too, to burn Blu-ray data discs. That's fully supported in OS X with Toast for example. I've held off though so far, since good quality BR media is still expensive, even if the recorders are now cheap.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by AKcrab 

I had the pleasure of receiving some training from three apple guys recently. I made the mistake of asking them about blu-ray.

If you hadn't heard my question and only their response, you would have thought I had asked them the best way to kill a puppy.

We'll never see blu-ray in a Mac.

Oh I wouldn't say never. I remeber when Steve was asked about video on the iPod and he lauged and said no one would ever want to watch video on such a tiny screen.

Besides, "Apple-guys" are much like our own Spheric Harlot here, who vehemently defend Apple's official stance ... until the moment Apple changes its policy and then they act as if they were for it all along.

Other than that, I can just applaud mduell's post. Well said mduell.

[Ted L. Nancy]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

How could anyone think that an app called DVD Player could support Blu-ray?

That's just tongue-in-cheek, I'm sure... Nevertheless, how could anyone figure that software called iTunes would play movies, and be the central management system for my cellular telephone?

Due to their size, I'm really not interested in ripping Blu-ray discs. It seems my best option is to get a regular Blu-ray player.

Thanks.

-Ted

[mduell]

Yea, the $1.50/movie in disk space is a real bummer.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Besides, "Apple-guys" are much like our own Spheric Harlot here, who vehemently defend Apple's official stance ... until the moment Apple changes its policy and then they act as if they were for it all along.

[AKcrab]

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

What kind of Apple guys were they?

Apple store Apple guys? I don't think they know too much what's going on in the board rooms.

One was some sort of official trainer out of Florida, the other was the Regional Manager for the Northwest, and the third was a guy that focusses on sales to small business.

Not Apple Store guys.

I'm going to stick with "Never" on this one, but will be happy to be proven wrong.

[Veltliner]

The low read speed of the current DVD drives make them outdated.

Have you ever installed Final Cut Studio? It takes hours to read all that date from the discs.

We need a faster drive, and why not Blu-Ray?

Not as the super movie burning machine, but as a replacement for the outdated DVD drives. They look just as bad now as Floppy Drives did at the end of their life span.

[Spheric Harlot]

Have you noticed that Apple has snuck SD card readers into all its machines save the Mac Pro, MB Air, and white MacBook?

That's a move that makes no sense at all unless they're planning on doing *exactly* what you suggest - minus the Blu-Ray part.

[Veltliner]

Software still comes on DVDs.

That's not a problem with programs with a small amount of data. Even Photoshop is fairly small.

In Final Cut Studio the actual software is loaded quickly. It's all those extras (about 55 Gb) that take hours to transfer.

Maybe we'll get our software on SD cards in the future.

I myself have no use for SD card slots. My cameras use CF cards, and the thumb drives plug into USB. But all lower end cameras use SD cards (some upscale ones, too, for sure), so these people might have an advantage in not having to attach a card reader to their probably cramped USB port.

Come to think of it, I'd really welcome a CF slot. And add a dust cover.

[Spheric Harlot]

The Optical drive is next to go. Maybe not next year, but the year after that, I'd expect it will start to become optional.

[Veltliner]

Not sure if the software companies are ready to say "Adios!" to those fancy software packages.

It's probably a bit harder to charge $ 1000 for a download than for a nicely designed disc set in a shiny cardboard box.

[Spheric Harlot]

"SD SLOT", Veltliner.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

The Optical drive is next to go. Maybe not next year, but the year after that, I'd expect it will start to become optional.

Not going to happen Nostradamus. You'll be the first one to cheer when BD Macs will be released. As ironic as that may be.

[Spheric Harlot]

Misrepresenting me to get me riled up isn't working too well, is it?

[AKcrab]

Meanwhile...
Microsoft joins Apple in stance against Blu-ray

I'm sticking with my "never" prediction.

[Big Mac]

Not much of a surprise. I still like the format, minus all the DRM.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Misrepresenting me to get me riled up isn't working too well, is it?

It's only misreprenation if it isn't true, and since what I said was true, it's no misrepresentation, and I hardly care whether some person in Hamburg gets riled up or not - I was merely stating the obvious.

--

As for Microsith's stance on BD for XBOX, well.. they were all hot for HD-DVD. Now they'd rather try the online model for movies and when that fails, they'll support BD like PS3 does already.

Meanwhile Microsoft supports BD 100% on Windows and seems to be just a-ok with that. While one might see it as a "stance against" BD for MS to exclude it on XBOX, well that's not in competition and market with the Mac. Only Windows is and Windows supports BD. While on the console market PS3 supports BD and XBOX doesn't - at least not yet.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

It's only misreprenation if it isn't true, and since what I said was true, it's no misrepresentation, and I hardly care whether some person in Hamburg gets riled up or not - I was merely stating the obvious.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

I'm still waiting for downloaded movies and Apple TV to become something more than a moderate flop - Not holding my breath for actual success or profitability. There simply isn't interest for that service.

(lulzor)

[Veltliner]

So far, anything you get with iTunes is lower resolution and somewhat compressed.

And the movies have an expiration date. You rent, but do not buy, and the pricing is quite high. Reminds me of the sky high rates Blockbuster used to charge for videos before they finally and deservedly filed for bankruptcy.

I don't buy on iTunes. I don't like MP3, and I won't buy their compressed TV shows.

If Sony could get a bit more realistic, this would be a great format to buy movies in.

As long as we don't get the same quality as we can find on a Blu-Ray disc for download, the disc is still an option.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

I'm still waiting for downloaded movies and Apple TV to become something more than a moderate flop - Not holding my breath for actual success or profitability. There simply isn't interest for that service.

(lulzor)

I'm still waiting for you to call me a microsoft apologist for basically saying that I can understand their take on it.

I'm actually going to bother explaining my stance on Apple products (rather than my understanding of their business politics, which are a rather different matter): Every once in a while, Apple makes a product that fits my budget and my needs. My current main machine is a four-year-old MacBook that's falling apart, but Apple's current offerings aren't compelling me to upgrade.

I suppose that makes me a total fanboy because I don't start thread after thread on this forum complaining how Apple is missing the needs of consumers and/or professionals. Because, you know, I can live with the fact that they don't sell an i5 13" MacBook pro with hi-Rez matte screen for $1100. I'm an apologist for accepting that their reasons are probably good ones, and that their need to run a business probably trumps my desired specs.

Or maybe you're a total loser for thinking that you have me all figured out from the three posts of mine that you read when you pop in here once every three months.

At any rate, I think you're needlessly offensive, and I'd appreciate if you could just leave me alone rather than act all cool, like you've seen somebody play asshole cop on TV or something.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

I'm still waiting for you to call me a microsoft apologist for basically saying that I can understand their take on it.

I'm actually going to bother explaining my stance on Apple products (rather than my understanding of their business politics, which are a rather different matter): Every once in a while, Apple makes a product that fits my budget and my needs. My current main machine is a four-year-old MacBook that's falling apart, but Apple's current offerings aren't compelling me to upgrade.

I suppose that makes me a total fanboy because I don't start thread after thread on this forum complaining how Apple is missing the needs of consumers and/or professionals. Because, you know, I can live with the fact that they don't sell an i5 13" MacBook pro with hi-Rez matte screen for $1100. I'm an apologist for accepting that their reasons are probably good ones, and that their need to run a business probably trumps my desired specs.

Or maybe you're a total loser for thinking that you have me all figured out from the three posts of mine that you read when you pop in here once every three months.

At any rate, I think you're needlessly offensive, and I'd appreciate if you could just leave me alone rather than act all cool, like you've seen somebody play asshole cop on TV or something.

Look Spheric, I actually appreciate your posts here - many times you've helped me out of a problem - I don't mean offense. - And as you say, you're pretty pleased with your Mac, it suits your needs - but I'm not pleased. I'm not pleased because the lack of a BD drive in a Mac is an arbitrary and unnecessary, not to mention braindead policy decision, made by Steve Jobs.

That it is a braindead policy decision isn't really up for debate - this isn't the floppy or the CRT, because only in Steve's fantasyland does the internet provide any workable solution in leu of optical media.

We'd all benefit from being able to burn 25/50 GB optical discs and when using the 27" iMac or the new 27" cinema display it sure would be nice to be able to watch *real* 1080p HD video with uncompressed sound. Now you might not be interested in these things, but I'd be hard pressed to believe that the mere availability would offend.

Apple has in fact decided with Apple TV not to compete directly with BD anyway, since it's an all-rental model anyway now and BD and optical media is really just for those who want to own and keep the media portable. Thus this policy of no BD in Macs is more and more inane with every passing day.

(oh and I was watching Miami Vice season 1, but that was a lucky guess on your part)

[Spheric Harlot]

I honestly don't care about Blu-Ray support, but I've made pretty clear that - and why - I believe it's basically a dead format. Apple and Microsoft appear to agree, so I think it's safe to say that that's the reality, and anything else is a geek's wishful thinking.

'Twas only in Steve's fantasy that the internet proffered a useable alternative to the killed floppy drive in 1998, but in retrospect, nobody ever *really* gave a shit that didn't have copious amounts of time to waste on the internet.

Same here: In the Real World, nobody gives a shit about Blu-Ray. For data storage, it's a joke, and for media delivery, nobody's gonna care.

The optical drive hasn't been eliminated yet. But I work in audio, and I've just last week burned my SECOND CD this year, last week. It's much faster to use iDisk or other webspace. The optical drive will be a relic, and a mere third-party option by 2015 at the very latest. I'm thinking it will be phased out in the next two years. By that time, a 30-gig SD card will probably be under $10.

At that point, who is gonna care if I can get hi-res media either via interweb - it won't be iTunes for the hi-fidelity addicts, any more than it is iTunes for the 24/96 audio hi-fi guys, but that's not the question - or on an SD card, for which every Mac is getting a slot built-in?

[Spheric Harlot]

P.S.: I appreciate the positivity. Like I said, not all Apple products appeal to me - I obviously don't buy them all - but their business sense seems remarkably on-target - minus a couple misses, like the Cube or the MBAir, or the fact that Logic does not support anything more than 8 cores (the hexacore Mac Pro is actually FASTER running Logic by about 30% if you use the developer tools to switch OFF two of the six cores).

Omitting BD isn't braindead, it's unwillingness to invest a rather substantial amount of money (via licensing) into a) a competitor that's selling an b) obsoleted technology, encumbered with a whole slew of long-terrm technology/licensing issues.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Omitting BD isn't braindead, it's unwillingness to invest a rather substantial amount of money (via licensing) into a) a competitor that's selling an b) obsoleted technology, encumbered with a whole slew of long-terrm technology/licensing issues.

Since the licencing cost is transferred to the people who actually would by a BD Mac, I don't see the issue - besides... licencing cost? You're digging up any little thing to justify the braindead scheme of Steve now.

The fact is nothing has replaced the optical drive and the internet won't in any foreseeable future - the DVD with its 7 GB limit is too small - something with 50-75GB limit (being still backward compatable with DVD/CD) just makes sense.

The floppy didn't die because of the internet, it died because it couldn't evolve. It was basically stuck at a few MBs while people needed something that could transport 100s of MBs.

There was a short time where the Zip disk had a moderate success (and Apple even made Zip drives optional in Macs!) because of just that floppies didn't cut it and the CD-R was too expensive.

If the floppy could have scaled to 1 GB, it would still be here. BD scales the optical drive immensely, thus its usefulness. -- I've never met a person who has bought a movie on-line or rented one, but I know people who have a BD player or drive in their PCs. Which is no small wonder, since online movie-rentals are very limited in availability (making them essentially useless) and BD sales are a magnitude more popular than online sky-based rentals or purchases.

Notice that every single Mac comes with an optical drive (excepting the not-so-sucessful MacBook Air) - we're just capped at a DVD. Meanwhile Microsoft believes enough in BD that it has in fact implemented full BD support in its OS. I'm glad you find yourself in agreement with their policy!

More space is needed, as hard-drives are at 1 TB for the avg. consumer. But Steve insists on this braindead scheme.

His Apple TV will fail, just like many other silly things he has fallen in love with. On line music store works, on-line video store, not. DVDs too small, BDs adequate. DVDs are dead, yes. BD is its successor. There is no other physical media.

[Spheric Harlot]

I think your assessment of history is wrong.

Floppies died because of limited capacity, yes, but only once it was clear that email was a replacement. In addition, floppies were unreliable (dust!) and fragile.

Flash drives have all but replaced DVD-Rs for data shuttling, and for larger capacities, who on earth is going to waste his time burning Blu-Ray disks when you can get a hard drive with five times the capacity and MUCH higher speed for less than the hourly wages you'd have to figure for burning, them?

Any serious archival work is still going to be to tape.

Optical is dead - killed on one side by increasing flash sticks, and on the other by ever cheaper and faster hard drives.

[Spheric Harlot]

Btw: Netflix killed blockbuster.

"limited availability" of streaming video is as yet true for Europe, and I've noticed that Spain tends to trail about five years behind central Europe in terms of tech adoption, so you're probably right for where you're sitting.

The writing is on the wall, though, and the medium will flounder before it's fully established.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Btw: Netflix killed blockbuster.

"limited availability" of streaming video is as yet true for Europe, and I've noticed that Spain tends to trail about five years behind central Europe in terms of tech adoption, so you're probably right for where you're sitting.

Netflix killing video rentals is a major leap of faith.. here video rental is all but dead, but Netflix or Apple didn't kill it - rather Bittorrent did. Bittorrent for all below 40 years of age and VOD for the old folks. Video rentals in all of Europe are suffering, yet only a handful of countries in Europe have net-video available.

As for the demise of the floppy, it died when emails could handle the size of a floppy, but that connection hardly holds water since the biggest stab in the heart of the floppy was the limited capacity (and unreliability to an extent). Which is why optical media drives are ubiquitous in computers and the floppy drive is gone - it's pretty easy to discern what replaced what. The demand for *increased* capacity of media killed the floppy because it couldn't catch up with optical media. The fact that people could when pressed send an email with 2MB attachments through their 56k was the final nail in the coffin, but the need for actual physical media never died.

You're right about the flash-drives, that they've more or less replaced the need for sub 1 GB drives, but that's not the strong suit of BD, as well you know. 50+ GB capacity is and it is cheap to make, unlike the flash-drives and BD media is no less reliable. So to distribute large apps, backup important media for posterity and indeed view movies in *real* HD then yes BD is the only viable solution we have today. Flash drives will naturally always be more expesive than a thin piece of plastic and BD can reach density above 100 GB.

Furthermore, the internet is not everywhere and a computer without a physical media drive is actually quite handicapped. BD is actually rather cheap and will only become cheaper, it is based on a known technology (known as in commonly used everywhere) and is immune to magnetic deterioration.

Declaring optical media 'dead' is wishful thinking - but it is policy at Apple so arbitrarily Apple has decided to make their computers considerably less useful and certainly less future-proof.

Net-video has already failed Spheric. It's kinda like Ping in that regard.

[mduell]

This thread reminds me I need to buy a Blu-ray drive. $50 + free software = who can say no?

[Uncle Skeleton]

I actually bought a bluray drive, only then to learn that I have to pay Netflix double to get bluray movies. So I haven't rented any. DVDs are good enough, especially for movies that pre-date HD anyway

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

I actually bought a bluray drive, only then to learn that I have to pay Netflix double to get bluray movies. So I haven't rented any.

Double? It's $4/mo for BR access.

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

DVDs are good enough, especially for movies that pre-date HD anyway

You know they're not just upscaling the DVD transfers for BR, right? For example The Hunt for Red October BR looks amazing compared to the crappy DVD transfer they did back in the day.

[voodoo]

I'm waiting until the next iMac update, but that's it. I don't see much difference between OS X and Windows 7 anyway. Same crappy UI.

But the Peezoids do have better hardware. And thus Blu-Ray drives.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Double? It's $4/mo for BR access.

Last time I looked I swear it said $8 more per month, but now I can't find any reference to it... so thanks

[Veltliner]

I was planning on buying a Play Station because of the Blu Ray player that's pretty good.

Only think that keeps me from buying is that I then have a time thief in my home. I'm already working all the time, and if I start playing video games as well...

[mduell]

/me bought a Blu-ray drive today

$70 for an 8x Samsung. I burn about 2 DVDs a year, and no one I know has a computer with BR, so a burner seemed like a waste even though it was only $40 more.