[Trygve]

Debating between the Apple Airport base station and one from LinkSys (WRT54GX)

http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satel...VisitorWrapper

Any comments?

[Tomchu]

If you want moddability/awesome features, get a Linksys WRT54GL, and install DD-WRT on it.

[Trygve]

What is DD-WRT? Basically I have Cable internet and a 2 bedroom apartment with 3 computers... just need a decent wireless router. The Apple one is fine, but I'd like a cheaper solution.

[Tomchu]

From what I hear, the Airport doesn't have too great range. The Linksys would definitely be better in this regard.

DD-WRT is basically 3rd-party firmware for the WRT54G series of routers that allows you to do lots of cool and fancy things. Since these routers are just small embedded Linux devices, installing 3rd-party firmware allows you to do some neat things -- like having an SSH shell on the router itself. I use mine primarily for local DNS, static DHCP, and a slightly better range/faster wireless speeds.

http://24.85.143.242/ that is the front status panel. For anything else you need a password.

[ghporter]

Trygve, you really don't need the extra features DD-WRT offers, but you will notice more consistent, and typically better coverage with the Linksys router. Further, the WRT54GL also offers a 4 port switch, which is something the AirPort Base Station does not do. For less than half the price, I think the Linksys product is a better option.

[Tomchu]

No one really "needs" them, but they're nice to have, and add value to the product.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Tomchu

No one really "needs" them, but they're nice to have, and add value to the product.

Let's say that one should not mess with functionality that works when additional functionality is not needed and when adding such functionality can be detrimental to the actual operation of the unit. One of our moderators loaded one of Sveasoft's aftermarket firmwares to his WRT54G and had it die on him. Either something wrong with his download or a glitch in the WRT caused it to become completely corrupt. It took him a very long time to restore the WRT, and such restoration is not always possible. I generally advise caution and conservatism when it comes to even upgrading firmware that's currently working; replacing firmware that works with a version that may add functionality is just plain scary to me.

So if you have a real use for the additional functions AND are willing to put the box completely and perhaps permanently out of service to get it, then go for it. But do know the risks ahead of time.

I further recommend that you put any device you're going to flash on a good UPS if it isn't already. Reducing the things that can go wrong in advance helps reduce the number that do go wrong.

[Bwa]

Note that the latest WRT54G models have smaller RAM and NVRAM and may not run mods such as OpenWRT or DD-WRT. You might have more luck with the "SpeedBoost" models which have bigger RAM and NVRAM.

[ghporter]

One of the latest WRT54s even uses a completely different processor so NONE of the third party firmwares works on it. Be cautious when using such packages and KNOW YOUR HARDWARE.

And as I said, be "vewwy, vewwy caweful" when and if you decide to do anything to the existing, working firmware in your router.

[Tomchu]

If you're using a supported model, along with a tested-and-compatible firmware image, then as long as you follow the easy instructions to the dot, you will not brick the router.

That said, my first attempt at flashing with 3rd-party firmware also resulted in a brick, and that firmware, ironically enough, was Sveasoft. The moral of the story is don't use Sveasoft. I've flashed three WRT54G v4s, and one WRT54GS v4, and in each and every case, the operation was flawless when using DD-WRT v23 Final.

As for the WRT54G v5 being incompatible with 3rd-party firmwares, yes, that's correct, but not because it has a different CPU. It's simply because it has half the RAM and half the flash available as previous models.

[ghporter]

I must have been misinformed on the CPU versus RAM/FLASHRAM issue. Thanks for the correction.

[Tomchu]

No problem. It's easy to get the wrong information, since all of the hackers return their V5s as soon as they learn that they're V5s. :-P

[nerd]

With the DD-WRT can you enter unlimited port forwards? Can you also enter ranges? I'm using Sveasoft only for that reason so I would like to try out DD-WRT some day.

[MORT A POTTY]

well as this initial poster doesn't want/need any of that extra functionality and simply wants a good router, I'd suggest the Linksys as well. I personally have the WRT54G and it's great. I have an AirPort Express also on the same network (though won't work w/ bridging unless I mess with stuff there's no way in hell I'm messing with) but works fine for what I need and that's all that matters. WRT54G was cheap and is by far the best router I've ever owned. I had a non-WiFi D-link unit that was OK, and had a shitty Belkin 802.11g router that I hate to this day and refuse to use ever again as it's cheaply built and the interface isn't anywhere near as good as the Linksys one IMO.

but yeah, Linksys is great for cheap and decent configurability w/ the standard firmware, while Apple AirPort base stations are slightly easier to set-up initially for some situations, it's also not worth the extra cost associated with it.

[Trygve]

The place where I am setting it up is a 900 sqft apartment with brick walls (no wood construction in Europe). I know if the Apple Base Station does not provide full coverage, I can add the AirportExpress small station as an extender... does this not work with a LinkSys router?

Any comments on WRT54G vs WRT54GX?

[ghporter]

Are the apartment's interior walls brick? That would be a difficulty for any wireless system-not a fatal one, but a difficulty nonetheless. However, an AirPort Base Station comes with a small, internal antenna, which give it significantly less "punch" in terms of coverage. It will produce a lower signal with a given power level than an external antenna because of the antenna design.

On the other hand, a Linksys router, and particularly the WRT54GX, has external, multiple antennas which do a number of things. These antennas concentrate the signal horizontally, so your floorspace is better covered (at the expense of coverage at the ceiling; if you're Spider-Man and wanting to surf from the ceiling, this is not your best bet ), and the multiple antennas support a receiver function called "diversity," which allows the receiver to pull signals out of lower-level or noiser environments better.

If you were going to cover 900 square feet of floor space in an apartment wood-framed (or other framed material) internal walls, the ABS would be fine. But if the partition walls are brick, you would do better with the Linksys.

[Trygve]

Yes, the interior walls are brick as opposed to the 2x4 and drywall construction in the US. The router should be able to cover the two main rooms of teh apartment which are next to each other but due to the location of the cable connection it can't sit very close to the connecting door.

I have heard LinkSys offers no Mac support and that firmware upgrades are a bit common/required with LinkSys. How well is this going to work for me? (No PCs in my flat!).

I assume the LinkSys config is accessable from a webpage embedded in the router so I can open ports, set up port forwarding etc.

Thanks.

PS: I am not Spiderman... I don't know who he is. ;-)

[shiff]

I am not saying use Sveasoft or anything, but I have used it on 8 Linksys routers and all are running flawlessly. I will say, however, that by not being very careful and methodical when installing the firmware; one can really make the process much harder then it is.

That seems to be the problem 99% of the time with firmware flashes.

I would get a WRT54G as they are very reliable and extremely cheap. Version 2.0 is one I highly recommend. It is one of the models before the Cisco takeover and before they started hardware limiting the devices. You can tell which version it is by looking at the serial number on the router or on the box:

Serial Numbers Starting With:
CDF5 = WRT54G v2.0
CDF7 = WRT54G v2.2
CDF8 = WRT54G v3.0

I am only suggesting that one if you think you will ever want to put 3rd party firmware on it. I have it on mine and it has greatly enhanced my router, but then again, I needed that functionality. You may not.

Even if you are never going to put 3rd party firmware on it; I would get a linksys over an apple for sure. Another thing to consider is how much "noise" that will interfere with your wireless signal. Adding external antenaes will do nothing if you have a ton of interference. It is like when your cell phone starts to get staticy and you talk louder thinking they will hear you, but it makes no difference.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Trygve

I have heard LinkSys offers no Mac support and that firmware upgrades are a bit common/required with LinkSys. How well is this going to work for me? (No PCs in my flat!).

I assume the LinkSys config is accessable from a webpage embedded in the router so I can open ports, set up port forwarding etc.

Thanks.

PS: I am not Spiderman... I don't know who he is. ;-)

NOBODY needs "Mac support" for a Linksys router. EVERYTHING is accessible via your browser-EVERYTHING, including firmware upgrades. You just download the binary package and navigate - through the browser interface - to the right file to get the thing to upgrade itself. Sometimes there is a real need to upgrade the firmware (they have gotten pretty aggressive about adding features and fixing even minor bugs since Cisco bought them), but it should be pretty seamless because they've also designed their products to handle these upgrades gracefully.

I would make sure you had the router on an UPS, especially when you go to upgrade firmware. This is extra insurance against a truck knocking over a power pole while you're half way through.

[Trygve]

I would get a WRT54G as they are very reliable and extremely cheap. Version 2.0 is one I highly recommend. It is one of the models before the Cisco takeover and before they started hardware limiting the devices.

If I buy a new one it will be from after the Cisco takeover. I looked at them a couple days ago and they are blue/black and have the Cisco logo on front. What sort of "hardware limiting" are they doing?

Oh and yes, it will be on a UPS.

[shiff]

It is probably nothing that you will even notice if you havent already. Linksys really did not care if you modded their product. Yes, they did not support it, but whatever made you buy a Linksys was fine with them.

Cisco sells high end wireless products and they saw alot of people buying cheap linksys routers and putting 3rd party firmware on them and unlocking the hidden features, thus turning the cheap router into one that has the feature set of their higher end products. They are trying to stop that by putting less ram and using different kinds of architecture on the inside. Alot of the "hidden" features have been removed.

Linksys/Cisco still make great routers though and I would not hesitate to get one if I needed another.

[Trygve]

Can you give an example of a few features that are locked out like this? It'd be nice if there was a FAQ on ths stuff.

[ghporter]

Actually most of the functions you can get with third-party firmware are "advanced," not stuff most people want, need, or even know how to use. For example, you can crank up the output power on some units with some firmware-but standard power usually works just fine for the majority of users. And I haven't heard anything about "hardware limiting" by Cisco on any of their products, particularly not the WRT54Gs (unless this is in reference to the version 5 hardware which has a different processor and OS...).

As for a FAQ, look at what BroadbandReports has on its Linksys forum. It may be useful to you.

[shiff]

Exactly. Most of the features that are "locked out" are advanced features that most people do not even need and will do fine without.

[Elixir]

does this router work well for the new mactels?

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Elixir

does this router work well for the new mactels?

Of course it does. Why wouldn't it?

[ghporter]

Wireless networking is done according to international standards. NOTHING about basic wirless networking-or wired networking, for that matter-is platform dependent.