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Am I crazy to downgrade to a Powerbook?
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Mac Enthusiast
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I currently have a 2.0Ghz Macbook, and it has had a few warranty issues. The HD is possibly going to fail soon(weird OSStatus -36 error), and I have had a few of those pesky cracks, and the keyboard had a glitch. I am feeling bad that I ever sold my 12" Powerbook. I really loved it, but wanted to get an Intel laptop, but didn't want a 15" or 17" Macbook Pro. I really should have just kept my 12" Powerbook. I love it's portability, sturdy construction, and it was fast enough for me.
But now that I have had the Macbook for about 9 months, is it a crazy idea to sell it and buy a 12" Powerbook? They seem to be dropping in resale value, and the 1.25 - 1.5Ghz ones are going for about $450-$500 now. I could still get $800 for the Macbook...
Just looking for feedback on what you think...
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Your MacBook is still under warranty I assume. You could have all those defects taken care of by Apple.
What are the pros/cons of downgrading to the Powerbook for you? Therein should lie the answer.
From a technical point of view, I'd never downgrade to a lesser capable machine. I don't see the advantages, particularly not if it were to be my only machine.
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Keep sending it back for repairs under warranty, and get AppleCare before you hit 12 months. Then when it keeps failing, demand a new aluminum MacBook b/c your current one is a lemon.
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Originally Posted by Cold Warrior
Keep sending it back for repairs under warranty, and get AppleCare before you hit 12 months. Then when it keeps failing, demand a new aluminum MacBook b/c your current one is a lemon.
That is what I am also thinking... The same thing happened to my imac G5. Apple replaced it with an intel imac. I have until August to get AppleCare, but I also bought it with my MasterCard and they do double the warranty up to 2 years at no cost.
What are the pros/cons of downgrading to the Powerbook for you? Therein should lie the answer.
I think the Metal notebooks are more durable. I ride my bike to work everyday and though I have a good TimBuk2 bag, the Macbook seems a little fragile. I do crave a smaller laptop as well. I really wished that the Macbook Air came out as a 12"...
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In my experience (various PowerBooks, iBooks and a MacBook Pro), `metal books' are as durable as consumer notebooks by Apple (which have a sturdy metal frame and durable polycarbonate plastics). I would definitely advise against getting a PowerBook. And why do you wish the AirBook was 12", have you seen one? They're small, really small.
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I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
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Originally Posted by OreoCookie
In my experience (various PowerBooks, iBooks and a MacBook Pro), `metal books' are as durable as consumer notebooks by Apple (which have a sturdy metal frame and durable polycarbonate plastics). I would definitely advise against getting a PowerBook. And why do you wish the AirBook was 12", have you seen one? They're small, really small.
I haven't had the same experience with my Macbook. The plastic isn't as durable as metal. I now have a small crack at the back of the hinge. The Macbook Air has the same dimensions doesn't it? 13.3" widescreen. It would take up the same room in my bag. I thought the only difference was that it was thin. I have been eyeing up a few ultra portable laptops(and getting rid of Windows for a Linux distro). I would really like to get a laptop in the 2 to 3 pound range with wifi. The Macbook Air would be perfect in the 12" form factor IMHO. Though I may consider it in it's 2nd generation state...It was almost perfect.
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No, it is a lot, lot smaller (I've seen it live yesterday, it's incredibly small), because it's much thinner than a regular laptop -- and much lighter. Think of a folder with a papers, that's it!
I've never had problems with the cases of the various iBooks I've owned, but my ProBook's wrist rest looks worse than that of my iBook (discolorations, signs of wear, etc.). I also have a dent in my case (result of a bike accident) -- although it's a miracle, my ProBook survived with just a dent (I had way more serious injuries than my computer ). But I would definitely trust a MacBook's case as much as a ProBook's. Plastic can be more durable as metal, depending on the stresses you put on it. But plastic will react differently. I won't dent, it'll break, but it can endure more stress than metal (which is why carbon fiber frames of mountain/race bikes can be tougher than aluminum). But on the other hand, it's more flexible, too. Especially polycarbonate which is used in the i/MacBooks (same as on my D80).
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If it wasn't for the speed, I'd still have my 12" PB today. I think about her everyday. I know where she lives... 2 owners later. I know. Where. She. Lives.
No, you're not crazy.
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Macbook Pro + Sawtooth
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Originally Posted by shrugs*
If it wasn't for the speed, I'd still have my 12" PB today. I think about her everyday. I know where she lives... 2 owners later. I know. Where. She. Lives.
No, you're not crazy.
Thanks! If money wasn't an option(which most of the time, it most certainly is), I would give the Macbook to my son, and buy a 12" powerbook. I may just have to wait a while, until I find one for a really good price...
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I'm definitely starting to feel the lack of speed compared to something like a MacBook on mine, unfortunately, and mine's a fully loaded last-generation model. It might be that I just installed Leopard, I have to say, I'm starting to think about just going all the way back to Panther for the speed.
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g4/1.5 GHz 12 inch powerbook / 1.25 RAM / 80 gig / Superdrive / 10.5.6
g3/400 MHz Pismo / 640 RAM / 40 gig / Combo Drive / 10.3.9
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Yesterday I worked on my old PowerBook G4 (15", 1.25 GHz) again, running Tiger (not Leopard), and I was reminded how slow these things are compared to what you can get today. Stay with your MacBook or get an AirBook, but don't downgrade to the year before yesteryear's machine.
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I have not been impressed with the speed of the MacBooks compared to my last get 1.67 Powerbook, frankly. Now, a lot of that may be to do with Rosetta apps, but I'm not interested in swapping out my PB for an MB. MBP, maybe.
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If you're comparing cpu-heavy apps, the performance will be identical.
Forget about Rosetta apps, you should compare native apps. Having a second cpu core really helps responsiveness, too. Even if an app decides to hog one core, there is still a second one around
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I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
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Originally Posted by OreoCookie
If you're comparing cpu-heavy apps, the performance will be identical.
I'm comparing Office 2004, OmniGraffle 6, iPhoto etc.
Originally Posted by OreoCookie
Forget about Rosetta apps, you should compare native apps.
No thanks, I'll compare the apps I actually use.
Originally Posted by OreoCookie
Having a second cpu core really helps responsiveness, too. Even if an app decides to hog one core, there is still a second one around
I'm sure that's true, at least in theory, I haven't noticed that to be very true when comparing the two machines I'm talking about though.
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You're not crazy to want to go back to the real thing.
/ducks and runs for cover.
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"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
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Big Mac, I find it funny that we almost always agree outside the PL!
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Yeah, it's almost eerie.
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"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
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Originally Posted by peeb
I'm comparing Office 2004, OmniGraffle 6, iPhoto etc.
No thanks, I'll compare the apps I actually use.
If you use iPhoto 6 or newer, of the three you mention, only Office 2004 is actually using Rosetta.
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Well, I guess that Rosetta is only a partial excuse then!
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As a 12" PowerBook owner, I wouldn't suggest anyone to downgrade as the Intel Macs mop G4 machines in many situations with Rosetta and that boost/responsiveness is useful(Photoshop CS2, Illustrator CS2, HandBrake, etc) and 12" PowerBook G4s & 12"/14" iBooks maxed out at 1.25 GB of memory(Tiger is the safest bet, Leopard will be painful). Now if you compared a G5 iMac/Tower to Intel, the gap of Rosetta performance with Adobe CS/CS2 is quite awful... my university stupidly went first gen Intel+CS2, ugh! If you want the most value for the dollar, get a last gen iBook G4 which had the ATI Radeon Mobility 9500(64mb vram) since it'll run laps around the 12" PowerBook with the nose bleed slow Mobile Nvidia 5200 gpu when using Dashboard.
Only benefit I'd see with a PowerBook G4/iBook G4 these days is 3rd party power adapters, they're cheaper and far more reliable than the Apple ones which had weak cables prone to cracking/failing. Until Apple allows 3rd party Magsafe adapters into the market for MB/MBP, it'll be the single issue of me staying away from another Apple notebook as a classmate had a magsafe catch fire in a CompSCI class!
At the moment I'm carrying two notebooks(12" PB & Thinkpad T61).
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Originally Posted by SpaceRockness
PowerBook G4s ... (Tiger is the safest bet, Leopard will be painful).
Leopard is faster than Tiger on most G4s, although I'm not sure how much RAM you need to make this a sure thing.
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Originally Posted by peeb
Leopard is faster than Tiger on most G4s, although I'm not sure how much RAM you need to make this a sure thing.
Is this from experience or what you've heard? My powerbook is definitely not faster under Leopard, the same at best, and it still feel less responsive when I have lots of tabs open in Safari, which didn't really happen in Tiger. My pb is the last generation, maxed ram, too.
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g4/1.5 GHz 12 inch powerbook / 1.25 RAM / 80 gig / Superdrive / 10.5.6
g3/400 MHz Pismo / 640 RAM / 40 gig / Combo Drive / 10.3.9
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That's odd - I have a 15 inch 1.67 pb with 1.5gb, Leopard is consistently faster than Tiger was. Not by a whole lot, but definitely a bit.
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peeb, you have a later PowerBook G4 revision which had a 5400 RPM HD standard and 15/17 models used ATI graphics. As far as Leopard vs Tiger, my 12" PowerBook(1.33Ghz, 1.25GB of ram-max) was laggy as heck via installed on a firewire HD. When I booted from the same FW HD connected to my older 15" PowerBook G4(1.25Ghz, 1GB RAM), UI was slightly snappier which I'm guessing is related to the ATI Radeon Mobility 9600.
Personally I gave up hope for Leopard on my G4 machines and I'll move to Intel in a matter of 14 months or so. My 15" PB will get junked sooner, Superdrive is toast, bluetooth died and the backlight is uneven(never had a blotchy screen). Not bad for a Rev A machine as it survived this long, so much for a Rev A jinx theories of MacNN as mine was ordered the day it was released!
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Originally Posted by SpaceRockness
peeb, you have a later PowerBook G4 revision which had a 5400 RPM HD standard and 15/17 models used ATI graphics.
The last model ever made...
Originally Posted by SpaceRockness
As far as Leopard vs Tiger, my 12" PowerBook(1.33Ghz, 1.25GB of ram-max) was laggy as heck via installed on a firewire HD. When I booted from the same FW HD connected to my older 15" PowerBook G4(1.25Ghz, 1GB RAM), UI was slightly snappier which I'm guessing is related to the ATI Radeon Mobility 9600.
The graphics card might be some of it - I seem to recall hearing that some of the window management was moved to the GPU in Leopard?
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I think some are overlooking "and it was fast enough for me" when starting the PPC/Intel comparo.
IMO, notebook/user relationships are far more intimate than a desktop (mainly due to being semi-stuck with some components, but also from an incredible amount of textile interaction and other 'real-world' factors that come into play-- like durability).
Overall notebook experience, I'm totally sold on the 12" Powerbook over my Macbook. To me, it felt and looked better. It complimented my notebook lifestyle (..uhh yea). I can honestly say that if I didn't require the Macbook's speed for work (IT) and other-work (print design), I would be typing this post on a 12" PB and loving every minute of it.
Now if money wasn't an issue, and there was an actual 12" Powerbook in Intel form I'd obviously prefer (and suggest) that. But there isn't, and I think that puts a lot of us ex-12"ers in a weird spot. The situation equates to old cars in my mind (which is weird, since computer evolution can rarely be compared to anything else)-- a BMW 2002 is an amazing car. Current gen M3s are lightyears ahead. But the move forward almost feels superficial...
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I own a last generation 15" Powerbook 1.67Ghz; updated with a 7200RPM 100GB drive (and new battery from OWC). The computer remains responsive under Leopard. BUT, my wife has a Macbook 2.0Ghz Core2Duo.....we both used iMovie master a video....her machine finished TWICE AS FAST as the Powerbook.
On day to day usage (Office Suite, iTunes, etc), the Powerbook is fine. Anything else you want to do will be noticeably slower (esp. Adobe Suite).
TGF
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15" MBP, 2.66Ghz, 4 GB RAM
and....17" iMac C2D
and....Mac Classic II (still running well)
and.....a couple of homebuilt game machines and other ancient stuff like OS/2, BeOS, and Windows 2.0!
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Ah yes, on processor intensive tasks, the MB is faster, but on the tasks I use most frequently (office, graffle etc) the Powerbook feels at least as responsive. I think the GPU might play a big part in it.
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Yep the PowerBooks had great longevity. I've just moved over from a PowerBook G4 1.33 to a MacBook Pro, and on basic things like surfing/office stuff the difference is not very noticeable.
But I'll never choose to go back - being able to run Windows apps and Mac OS X simultaneously and at full speed is a huge treat And Numbers no longer sputters
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FWIW I upgraded my 12" PB (1.33Ghz / 1.25GB ram) to Leopard and responsiveness seems the same. I only use it for iWorks 2008 & Firefox mind you....
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I still find my self wanting a PowerBook G4 17".
Here in China/Taiwan the macbooks come ONLY with glossy screens, and it is the most irritating thing to see the reflection of everything behind you on your laptop screen. i simply Refuse to get on. And so i go looking to see what PowerBooks might be for sail second hand. This little iBook G4 at 800MHz is struggling hard these days.
In the 17" Power Book i wonder what would be the best and what price would be reasonable.
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The bigger difference between the PB17 and the MB is the screen size though - a more fair comparison would be between the PB12 and the MB. If you need that large a screen the MB just isn't in the running.
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im still on my 15 1.67 w/ 2gb of ram and 128 vid card. I love it still although when using logic pro after about 6 tracks with lots of effects i have to start bouncing tracks to free up some cpu usage. I am thinking of keeping this little beast as long as it lets me as i push a 24" monitor , external keyboard, usb keyboard (oxygen 8), a presonus firebox (using the firewire 400, a firewire 800 external drive ANNND my wacom tablet all at the same time none-the-less. Sometimes things get a bit slow but a reboot and i am back. I can't wait to see what a mac pro tower will let me do but for now with just doing demos and commercial music it works fine which is REALLY REALLY strange. So, in conclusion, i heart my powerbook.
P
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I sold my 1.33 12in about 9 months ago. As much as I loved that little computer, I'm rather happy with my Macbook Pro.
I don't know how I could go back to a G4 after using the full speed of an Intel Mac. I couldn't even run iPhoto all that well (granted I have over 10,000 photos) on my G4. Plus the screen was so dark.
I loved my 12in. But it was time to move on. On to faster computers, better GPUs, built in cameras.
And seriously. The Macboks are not all that bigger than a 12in.
The 12in Powerbook users of today are the PISMO users of 3 years ago. So the cycle continues.
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You're talking about the Pro - the MB is a different creature.
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I had a 12" PowerBook not long ago. I was happy with it for a little more than a year of ownership, but it didn't take long for me to get really, really irritated at how slow it was. And I wasn't even using it for anything particularly demanding. I even had enough RAM (1.25 GB; the maximum) and was running the OS it shipped with, Tiger.
I tried installing Leopard on it when it came out last fall and it was just a disappointment and a half. Everything went from being just a little frustrating to an exercise in futility. Spotlight was slow and took maybe a second to search again every time I added another letter to the end of the word I was in the process of typing. And that was after a clean install—I had tried an archive install before and it messed up so many things I couldn't even use my computer (Spotlight would freeze and crash if I tried to use it, the desktop couldn't be clicked on and all the items went invisible, etc).
To be honest, it felt sort of like when I bought an 800 MHz iBook several years ago and had to suffer through the 128 MB of standard RAM before my extra 512 MB came in the mail. Everything beachballed constantly. It was pure hell. I got the impression that, by the time Tiger came out, Apple didn't care about PPC performance in OS X because they'd just be selling Intel Macs anyway. That just got worse in Leopard.
What's funny is that, when I tell this story, people always say that there was something special wrong with my computer. I don't see how that could have been the case. OS X is just slow on G4s. It was fast on dual G4s in Panther, and it was generally acceptable on desktops, but it chugged like mad on laptops. I owned two OS X laptops (the aforementioned 800 MHz G3 iBook and the PowerBook, a 1.5 GHz G4) and both were so frustrating to use that I ended up selling them before too long.
Intel Macs give such better performance it's not even funny. I honestly don't know how anyone can put up with G4s anymore. G5s, sure. They were all fast desktops. But G4 laptops? No way. I'd be more productive using OS 9 on a PowerBook G3 (those things are FAST).
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Originally Posted by Faust
From a technical point of view, I'd never downgrade to a lesser capable machine. I don't see the advantages
I would definitely have to agree, but I think you need to make a decision on what really suits you. If a powerbook and it's capabilities really suit you then I would go for it. I know a lot of Linux guru's who only use old laptops that they come across and it's perfectly fine for them. The only way I'd call you crazy if you said you're going back to Windows. Good luck!
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Originally Posted by Faust
From a technical point of view, I'd never downgrade to a lesser capable machine. I don't see the advantages, particularly not if it were to be my only machine.
It's not entirely clear that it is a less capable machine for the things the op wants it for.
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Originally Posted by larrinski
and I have had a few of those pesky cracks, and the keyboard had a glitch.
Where are these cracks? BlackBook or the white one?
Also, I have a Powerbook that I upgraded from. I loved that machine but my Blackbook is faster and can do things the PB unfortunately is getting too long in the teeth to do.
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