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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Applications > Microsoft Word vs. Apple Pages - End User Feedback Wanted

Microsoft Word vs. Apple Pages - End User Feedback Wanted
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iDriveX
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Oct 27, 2005, 05:28 PM
 
So I find myself always trying to use the best apps at my disposal and not having two of the same apps on my hard drive. For instance, I use Safari and don't have any other web browsers taking up space, I use the Adobe Suite vs. other image editing programs. Things like that.

BUT I recognize that Pages and Word are two totally different programs, one excels at things the other cannot even do and vice versa. But there is a significant amount of overlap. I use word for printing labels and doing things like Organizational Charts.

So my question is this, for those people that have both Word and Pages, which do you find yourself using more? And for which tasks do you use one over the other for?

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Thinine
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Oct 27, 2005, 06:03 PM
 
I find its easier to make documents look good with Pages, but it has some performance issues on my iBook, so I can't use it. Also, support for endnotes would be nice. Once I get my quad I'll probably use it for my research papers. Styles in Pages are pretty nice (one of the things that makes making good looking documents easier) and I hope Apple enhances their usability in Pages 2. I can't think of anything spectacular about Word aside from it having more features (which I never use).
     
kcmac
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Oct 27, 2005, 06:20 PM
 
I mostly use Pages on my Mac. Then I export it to Word (or as a pdf) to my Work PC. I also send Word documents from my work PC to my Mac, open in Pages and reformat things when they are all fouled up.

I don't subscribe to your finite selection process but to each their own. I use both, need both and will keep both.
     
production_coordinator
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Oct 27, 2005, 06:24 PM
 
It's like comparing Adobe Illustrator and Everquest... they are two different applications. One is designed for writing documents (Word) the other is for a well designed piece (Pages).

Trying to get a well designed Word document is a nightmare, and I wouldn't even thing about using Pages like I use word [track changes, Windows compatible, etc. etc.]
     
iDriveX  (op)
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Oct 27, 2005, 07:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by production_coordinator
It's like comparing Adobe Illustrator and Everquest... they are two different applications. One is designed for writing documents (Word) the other is for a well designed piece (Pages).

Trying to get a well designed Word document is a nightmare, and I wouldn't even thing about using Pages like I use word [track changes, Windows compatible, etc. etc.]
I don't think that's true at all. You can write a letter in Word or Pages, Pages will end up looking nicer. But there are some things you can't do in pages, go buy yourself some Avery Labels and try and print those out using Pages and on the flip side, try and pull in some graphics into word and you'll see how much easier it is in Pages. Right now I am writing a long outline I,A,1,a,i, etc. in Word because it is faster scrolling through the multiple pages and I need to send it to my Windows Brethren and not worry about conversion issues.

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kcmac
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Oct 28, 2005, 01:51 AM
 
I think you just answered your own question. It doesn't hurt to have both.
     
Randman
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Oct 28, 2005, 02:01 AM
 
Word and TextEdit have more in common than Pages does with Word.

If you have both, use them. They don't take up that much space and aren't hogs like iDVD or GarageBand can be.

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pliny
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Oct 28, 2005, 09:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by iDriveX
But there are some things you can't do in pages, go buy yourself some Avery Labels and try and print those out using Pages
Why not use an Avery label template for Pages? It works great. You can get one at iWork Community.
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iDriveX  (op)
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Oct 28, 2005, 07:39 PM
 
Genius. Thank you.

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DKeithA
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Oct 28, 2005, 10:10 PM
 
I use Pages much more often. Word is useful, but Pages is better.
     
production_coordinator
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Oct 29, 2005, 01:08 AM
 
OK, perhaps my Illustrator vs. Everquest comparison was a bit harsh, I still feel they are very different applications. They both have their own strength.

but one could never replace the other... as they are different applications.
     
CaptainHaddock
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Oct 29, 2005, 04:50 AM
 
I have both Pages and Word installed. I never touch Word any more.

Pages opens Word documents pretty well, the odd time I get one from a client. In fact, it's a lot easier to extract an image from a Word document with Pages than with Word itself.

Pages has also become my quick layout tool of choice. It's nicer to work with than InDesign for quick projects if they're just being printed at Kinko's anyway. It's very much a drag-and-drop application, the tools are pretty intuitive for the most part. It lacks the overblown toolbar syndrome that Word has.

I wouldn't see much point to Word unless you work with really long documents that have chapters and such, or if you collaborate on documents with other Word users.
     
production_coordinator
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Oct 29, 2005, 05:32 PM
 
Pages is lacking in many higher end features present in Word.

Pages is an amazing first step... and is very different than Word. It's a quasi page layout program.
     
Miniryu
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Oct 29, 2005, 07:20 PM
 
are you guys kidding me? unless Pages has a Track Changes feature I haven't discovered, Word will always be far superior for this reason alone. I hate Microsoft as much as the next Mac user, but the M$:Mac team did a bang-up job making this application Apple friendly. When I send papers to my supervisor for edits, I use the comments feature to leave messages in the margins. When she returns it to me, all of the edits she made are tracked in red, iCal-ish bubbles.

And even though Pages can import and export to and from other formats, it can't directly edit a non-native document. I can't open a word document, make a small change, and hit Command-S to save it: I have to wait for it to import from Word, export it via drop down menus, then close the 'Pages' version of the document and click "Don't Save". Too much work for me.

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kcmac
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Oct 29, 2005, 07:34 PM
 
Unless you are missing something here, not everyone needs Word. Of course a lot of us have to put up with it and if like you, they need to use track changes, then yes, you need Word.

I work in a company that does not support the Mac. Somehow I manage to use Pages probably 90% of the time. Hmmm. Go figure.
     
midwinter
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Oct 29, 2005, 07:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by iDriveX
I don't think that's true at all. You can write a letter in Word or Pages, Pages will end up looking nicer.
Unless it's a suicide note that begins "Dear World, I just can't—HI! IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE TYPING A LETTER! WOULD YOU LIKE TO USE THE LETTER ASSISTANT!"

Or your letter has endnotes. Pages's endnote features are awesome.
     
quietjim
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Oct 29, 2005, 09:50 PM
 
I also use the Adobe Suite (so far, just CS). I was under the impression InDesign would only natively import Word files. Will it import Pages files?
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Randman
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Oct 30, 2005, 12:54 AM
 
.Pages documents can be exported to just about any other word-processing app including Word.

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pliny
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Oct 30, 2005, 08:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by midwinter
Unless it's a suicide note that begins "Dear World, I just can't—HI! IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE TYPING A LETTER! WOULD YOU LIKE TO USE THE LETTER ASSISTANT!"


Pages documents are in xml format, which apparently, future versions of Office are going to be defaulting to also. I wonder if this will make the documents more compatible?? to save that brutal extra step of pulling down a menu....!
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CaptainHaddock
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Oct 30, 2005, 09:30 AM
 
Also, the .pages format is actually a file bundle. All your images are stored inside it as separate image files, making it possible to automate document modifications without even opening Pages.
     
tooki
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Nov 1, 2005, 11:02 PM
 
Import/Export (which Pages can do with Word files) is NOT the same as being able to open the file.

In academia, Word is the format for documents, and it's what you need to use. Pages can import well, but export is less predictable, and it's a huge pain in the ass to have to manage versions when doing import/export.

I hope to use Pages more when I am done with school. But for now, Word has no competition.

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Kristoff
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Nov 1, 2005, 11:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by tooki
Import/Export (which Pages can do with Word files) is NOT the same as being able to open the file.

In academia, Word is the format for documents, and it's what you need to use. Pages can import well, but export is less predictable, and it's a huge pain in the ass to have to manage versions when doing import/export.

I hope to use Pages more when I am done with school. But for now, Word has no competition.

tooki
WHAT

In my (insert large number here) years of studies, every paper I have ever read has been either PostScript or PDF...so how is it that you claim Word is the format for documents in Academia?

I have not seen one academic paper that was distributed as a .doc file.
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tooki
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Nov 2, 2005, 02:09 AM
 
Are you in school? Professors want papers submitted to them as Word files if they don't want them on paper. Once in 6 years I've had a professor ask for RTF instead. Others have tolerated PDF but preferred Word.

I wasn't really thinking of published research papers, which get distributed in a wide array of formats.

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threestain
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Nov 2, 2005, 04:35 AM
 
I think most, if not all research papers are published in pdf format. it is the requirement nowadays I believe
     
Randman
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Nov 2, 2005, 05:17 AM
 
Lots of institutions are moving away from M$'s propriety applications, much like many companies are moving to formats such as PNG over JPG.

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threestain
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Nov 2, 2005, 05:28 AM
 
my university for one has always been quite anti-proprietary stuff (except powerpoint bizarrely) but that may be due to its science background (no arts studied here), and the large computing centre.
     
pliny
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Nov 2, 2005, 08:52 AM
 
Probably true that many professors who get emailed papers, get them as .doc., especially if they are coming from a lab that has Office installs. But many professors I bet tell students to use other formats, esp if they are using MacOS.
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tooki
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Nov 2, 2005, 09:59 AM
 
In my experience at three colleges in the past 6 years, I've one time encountered a professor who wanted work submitted as something other than Word (or printed out). And yes, some of them were Mac users. Believe me, they say "send me the Word file". Why? Track Changes. That function has yet to be satisfactorily replicated in any mainstream app or Word clone.

Again, I really wasn't thinking about research publications and academic journal articles, which are publishing -- they're not being distributed for the purpose of being returned with corrections. If you are a student, at least here in USA, chances are you will be required to turn in work in Word format. I firmly stand by this statement.

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amazing
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Nov 2, 2005, 10:47 AM
 
I've never really understood the mindset behind this type of either-or discussion.

I've got many different type of shovels out in my shed: snow shovel, flat-bladed long handle, regular shovel (2 kinds: wood handle, metal handle), short handle serrated spade, and a couple more in my car (collapsing snow shovel, folding army-type small shovel.) There's probably more, but that's enough of a list.

The main idea being that there's a tool for every type of task and those people who try to use a multi-tool, or only one type of tool for many diverse tasks, well, those people are short-changing themselves. Use the tool that's appropriate to the task, then move on to the next task. Why do you think carpenters have many different tools? Sure, they could build a house with a hammer and a hand-saw (maybe) but the many tools available make it so much easier.

The idea being that the Powers-that-be gave us a brain, and it's a no-brainer to use the tools available.
     
Person Man
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Nov 2, 2005, 10:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by tooki
If you are a student, at least here in USA, chances are you will be required to turn in work in Word format. I firmly stand by this statement.
I consider myself lucky that I went to college from 1993-1997, in this regard. The internet was just becoming popular, and there were no course homepages, and all assignments were submitted on paper (at least where I went to school).

These days...

My mother STILL insists on using AppleWorks 6.2.9 for everything. She's taking an online course for teachers, and called me today saying the professor wanted the file submitted in DOC format. She wanted to know what that was. I told her to use Microsoft Word (which is on her computer too), and she was so upset that she had to "learn a whole new program."

Makes me wonder what's going to happen the day that AppleWorks no longer works
     
mindwaves
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Nov 3, 2005, 01:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by tooki
If you are a student, at least here in USA, chances are you will be required to turn in work in Word format. I firmly stand by this statement.

tooki
Never happened to me ever, then again, I'm not required to write many papers as an engineer....
     
iluvmymactoo
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Nov 3, 2005, 05:22 AM
 
I really wanted to use Pages instead of Word and all was well until I had to do a copy/paste special into Dreamweaver 8 Any formatting (no images included) in Pages is not copied over to DW8 at all, however with Word it is. If Apple could do something there than maybe I will reconsider.
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blasto
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Nov 3, 2005, 10:00 AM
 
I wouldn't agree that word and pages are completley different - there is nothing that Pages does that Word dosn't do. Pages has a tiny percentage of Word's features but whereas Pages makes a limited range of tasks simple, Word makes a huge range of tasks confusing and half-baked. Word's whole interface and feature-set is 'undiscoverable'. The endless wizards just demonstrate how difficult the software is to fathom.

Pages, like Keynote and Aperture, keeps things simple and focuses on the problem it designed to solve. It is minimalist, graceful and powerful.

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tooki
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Nov 3, 2005, 12:25 PM
 
Pages actually does a couple of things that Word can't do, such as wrapping text inside shapes.

Word is extremely powerful once you've really figured out how it thinks (which is, by the way, a very smart way of thinking). But nobody explains this to you (note to everyone: learn the power of the Section and Styles), so you think it's being erratic. Note that the Mac version of Word shows Section breaks visibly, making it possible to understand them. The Windows version cannot be made to make Section breaks visible, making it damned-near impossible to figure them out.


As for exporting from Pages to Dreamweaver: why not just export as HTML from Pages and then open that in DW for extraction or manipulation?

tooki
     
iluvmymactoo
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Nov 3, 2005, 04:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by tooki
.... As for exporting from Pages to Dreamweaver: why not just export as HTML from Pages and then open that in DW for extraction or manipulation?

tooki

That may sound logical but it's not practical. The conversion of a Pages document to html is less than good for starters and copying a formatted doc into DW is so that doc will retain it's original format and be converted into html as part of the site page being worked on. Using the method you suggest the doc in Pages isn't converted into html very well at all, original formatting may be lost and when it gets to DW it has to be tweaked to fix not only the formatting but the inaccurate html Pages may have created as well.

With Word the page is simply copied, formatting intact, and DW creates the correct html. No messing about.

I'd love that to work with Pages but it doesn't. Maybe in a future version
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Nov 3, 2005, 08:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Person Man
I consider myself lucky that I went to college from 1993-1997, in this regard. The internet was just becoming popular, and there were no course homepages, and all assignments were submitted on paper (at least where I went to school).
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I have been teaching college off and on for 15 years. Maybe I should require everyone turn in a physical paper done only with a manual typewriter...

Word can do many good things, so can Pages; but my primary tool is Mellel.

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CharlesS
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Nov 3, 2005, 08:18 PM
 
I once sent a paper to a prof in Word format. The stupid thing wouldn't print half of my images correctly - it just left a great big white space where the image was supposed to be. I re-sent it as a PDF and all was well...

... so if you want to convince your profs not to require Word format, just put a ton of images in your paper. When Word screws it up and doesn't print it right, re-send it as PDF and point out the superiority of this format.

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tooki
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Nov 3, 2005, 09:02 PM
 
Most professors don't have the full version of Acrobat that allows them to annotate the file. Again, Word's Track Changes feature is invaluable for professors who correct papers electronically.

tooki
     
Kristoff
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Nov 4, 2005, 03:54 AM
 
How many of these documents are .doc files?

And, their submission instructions sat PDF/PS.
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CaptainHaddock
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Nov 4, 2005, 04:54 AM
 
I'm just one datapoint, but I went to university (in Canada) for 5 years and was never required to hand in papers in the Word document format.
     
pliny
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Nov 4, 2005, 10:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shades of Gray
BS 1967-1971: Manual typewriter (meaning, not electric either)
MA 1977-1979: Manual typerwriter
MDiv 1982-1986: Manual typewriter
STM 1987-1992: Manual typerwiter (last paper completed on Mac using Word 5.0)

I have been teaching college off and on for 15 years. Maybe I should require everyone turn in a physical paper done only with a manual typewriter...

Word can do many good things, so can Pages; but my primary tool is Mellel.

Even an old dog can learn a few new tricks.
Manual typewriter, which brand? How large? You have opened a whole new can of worms.
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pliny
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Nov 4, 2005, 10:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by tooki
Most professors don't have the full version of Acrobat that allows them to annotate the file. Again, Word's Track Changes feature is invaluable for professors who correct papers electronically.

tooki
WE KNOW WE KNOW.

sheesh.
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itguy05
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Nov 4, 2005, 02:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by tooki
Word is extremely powerful once you've really figured out how it thinks (which is, by the way, a very smart way of thinking). But nobody explains this to you (note to everyone: learn the power of the Section and Styles), so you think it's being erratic. Note that the Mac version of
How does Word think? I've been using it since Word 2 (and Ami Pro on Win 3.1 before that) and I still have issues with it and how it thinks. Formatting is a PITA with it at times, especially with graphics. Also, how it handles pages and such is a major PITA.

Styles are nice, but I miss Ami Pro's styles where you could assign, F2 to Normal, F3 to Heading 1, F4 to Bullet, etc. That was great when writing papers. There are a lot of things I miss from that WP App that Word has yet to recreate.
     
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Nov 4, 2005, 03:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by tooki
Pages actually does a couple of things that Word can't do, such as wrapping text inside shapes.

Word is extremely powerful once you've really figured out how it thinks (which is, by the way, a very smart way of thinking). But nobody explains this to you (note to everyone: learn the power of the Section and Styles), so you think it's being erratic. Note that the Mac version of Word shows Section breaks visibly, making it possible to understand them. The Windows version cannot be made to make Section breaks visible, making it damned-near impossible to figure them out.


As for exporting from Pages to Dreamweaver: why not just export as HTML from Pages and then open that in DW for extraction or manipulation?

tooki

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Nov 5, 2005, 02:08 AM
 
I request .rtf from my students, but I also tell them that I can usually open anything they send me.
     
Salty
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Nov 5, 2005, 06:41 PM
 
If I were a Prof I'd probably demand either rtf, pdf, or pages. Just to be pretentious like any prof worth their degree.

"I also will not be accepting presentations done in .ppt... you all should have better taste, and I encourage you to gain better taste if you do not have it already. If you do not have another presentation package, you can purchase an iBook, otherwise work on your voice, annunciation, and general like-ability... many of you could use that work."
     
midwinter
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Nov 5, 2005, 08:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Salty
If I were a Prof I'd probably demand either rtf, pdf, or pages. Just to be pretentious like any prof worth their degree.

"I also will not be accepting presentations done in .ppt... you all should have better taste, and I encourage you to gain better taste if you do not have it already. If you do not have another presentation package, you can purchase an iBook, otherwise work on your voice, annunciation, and general like-ability... many of you could use that work."
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kcmac
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Nov 5, 2005, 09:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Salty
"I also will not be accepting presentations done in .ppt... you all should have better taste, and I encourage you to gain better taste if you do not have it already. "
Not to highjack the thread..

We do a lot of presentations to get work for our company. More and more we are seeing that these potential clients request that powerpoints are not permitted.

Finally...
     
pliny
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Nov 6, 2005, 09:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by kcmac
Not to highjack the thread..

We do a lot of presentations to get work for our company. More and more we are seeing that these potential clients request that powerpoints are not permitted.

Finally...
Why do they say that?
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Nov 6, 2005, 10:50 AM
 
I want to laugh at some of the responses in various posts as to Pages suggested use/purpose. Pages WAS designed to be a word processing application and have superior layout capabilities. While Apple succeeded on the 'layout front' by making brochures and articles easy to create; they failed miserably in making it a word processing application.

Couple the above with the fact that many Apple users can't accept 'failure' by their beloved company and the result is an EXCUSE for why apple failed.

The excuse here is that Apple didn't design Pages to be a word processing program.
Take what PRODUCTION COORDINATOR said in ta different post.
And i quote "It's like comparing Adobe Illustrator and Everquest... they are two different applications. One is designed for writing documents (Word) the other is for a well designed piece (Pages)."

Are you kidding me? You think Apple put countless months and endless money into designing a word program we be second best to any other product? No way. Apple though Pages was their answer to Microsoft Word. As it turned out it wasn't and many Apple users can't accept it.

Not to worry though, Apple will come out with a new version sooner or later. And if they change the program around, maybe they will have a competing product. And then what would you say.
Oh, now it's a word processing applicaiton. Bull. It's NOW and ALWAYS WILL BE a word processing application.......

but right now, it's a BAD one!
     
 
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