[Usual Suspects]

i'm a digital photography enthousiast (Canon Eos 300D) and i'm looking for an affordable light-weight sollution for storing my images while on the road.

first i was looking into portable hard drive solutions but i always come back at the 12" iBook! it looks like the ideal companion for all my (portable) needs...

now the real question is: is the 12" iBook usable as a desktop replacement? i already own a 15" iMac, but the new iBook is off course way more powerfull.

and is it possible to hook up a 19" CRT (Sony) monitor at higher resolutions than 1024 x 768? i really need better resolution when i'm at home working on my pics (in Photoshop CS)

thanks for helping me out here!
kobayashi

[kdixey]

I was in a similar situation to you, I'm a digital photographer (I use a Fuji 602Z and a Canon 10D) and my desktop was aging so I decided to get a laptop and try and make it work as a desktop replacement as well. The ability to use a CRT was critical since LCD screens are typically not the best way to view and judge color.

I ended up looking at the 12" ibook and the 12" powerbook. They will both do the job well. The ibook can do greater than 1024 x 768 with the availble spanning hack and has the advantage of being very durable (good for field use). I found that for my needs the 12" powerbook ended up being a better value because I wanted to get the ibook fully loaded (60gb HD, bluetooth and airport extreme) all of which come standard with the powerbook and the powerbook has twice the VRAM, a faster processor and supports video to an external monitor without the need of a hack.

Also, since I am a student the educational discount for the powerbook is also greater ($200 where the ibook discount is only $100). In the end the difference between the two machines was about $150 so I have decided to get the powerbook. That being said, the ibook is an extrememly capable machine and it offers a really compelling package. The ibook has terrific battery life, good performance, it's lexan case is much more durable than the powerbook and from what I understand Airport reception is considerably better. For me it came down to a combination of features that I was looking for and a better educational discount.

Hope that helps a bit.

[Usual Suspects]

Hope that helps a bit.

it helps a lot, thanks!

the iBook suits me better and costs less, which makes it my favourite option.
but i do have some more (practical) questions:

* do i need a converter of some sort, or do i just plug the monitor in?
* can anyone confirm that the hack still works with the new revision iBooks?
* is the ATI Radeon 9200 able to produce a 1280 x 960 resolution @ 85 Hz on the external monitor?
* can i use the external monitor at said resolution without the hack (mirroring, not spanning)?
* can i use the iBook closed with an external monitor?

i'm not sure i need two displays, but then again i've never tried it...

all further insights are welcome!
kobayashi

[NYCFarmboy]

if getting new and price is not an issue..get the 12" G4 1.3 ghz powerbook.

the 60 gig drive will really help you out... and get the DVD burner..

if you are a digital photographer, imovie and idvd makes presenting your work a dream.

I know from personal experience on this issue that the 40 gig drive is just not quite enough space if you have a few digital movies you are working on. The 60 gig would work. (and you can get a Built to Order 80 gig direct from apple).

Also.. burning back ups of your files on DVD is a lot easier than CD's just from the CD space limitation.




Whenever I travel I borrow a 12" powerbook to use for my digital photography.

I have a ibook, but the powerbook makes your work easier. Also..the powerbook is a bit smaller than the ibook which is very helpful. (but screen size is the same..in fact they are identical screens).


If price is a concern..get the 1 ghz previous generation G4 12" powerbook from Amazon.com for 1,399 (after rebate). that INCLUDES a superdrive and is only 200 dollars more than the NEW ibook.

[kdixey]

well, theones I know about

Without the hack...

- The ibook mirrors at 1024x768 only
- the ibook cannot be used closed

If you're going with the ibook, I would defintely go for the largest HD option (Apple makes it cheap to do) and maximize the RAM. Decide for yourself if you want Bluetooth and Airport Extreme (I could live without Blurtooth).

I can appreciate the attraction of the ibook being less money, but look carefully at what options you might want. I can tell you right now that the standard 30gb HD is going to feel cramped if your using a Canon 300D and if you shoot in RAW format its going to fill up pretty quickly. An external drive is always an option (as is an external DVD writer) but that kind of defeats the purpose of buying a laptop in the first place.

Also, I would compare that to a simialrly equipped powerbook and see how close in price the ibook and the powerbook are. Good luck, whichever way you decide it will be good, they are both terrific machines and you'll have a nice small portable workhorse.

[f1000]

Originally posted by Usual Suspects:
* do i need a converter of some sort, or do i just plug the monitor in?

iBooks come with a VGA Display Adapter.

[Usual Suspects]

thank you all for making me wiser ;-)

i really have no need for airport, bluetooth, superdrive...
harddisk will definately be upgraded to 60GB and i'll throw an extra 512MB RAM in it!

thus, no need for the powerbook unless...
* powerbook built quality is remarkably better.
* powerbook screen quality is remakably better.
* powerbook has display options that aren't available to the patched ibook (is it possible to turn of the internal display and allocating more video memory to the external monitor?).

i'm not in a hurry, but i need a portable mac before the end of august and i don't want to rush and regret...

[f1000]

Originally posted by Usual Suspects:
* powerbook has display options that aren't available to the patched ibook (is it possible to turn of the internal display and allocating more video memory to the external monitor?).

PowerBooks have DVI out.

[d4nth3m4n]

Originally posted by kdixey:
well, theones I know about

Without the hack...

- the ibook cannot be used closed

not true. just make sure its all plugged in and youre good to go. and by all i mean mouse, keys, monitor and POWER (doesnt work with batt power ).

[BobVB]

Originally posted by Usual Suspects:
i'm a digital photography enthousiast (Canon Eos 300D) and i'm looking for an affordable light-weight sollution for storing my images while on the road.

Not to talk you out of the iBook but Belkin has an adapter that lets you store digital pictures on an iPod too! I've a friend who got one and loves that it all fits in his camera bag and he can store virtually limitess pictures.



As far as my new BTO iBook g4 I got email it shipped on the 21st but FedEx says it won't arrive until the 27th - and I PAID for the damn 2 day shipping!

[Usual Suspects]

PowerBooks have DVI out.

but that's not needed for CRT monitors, right? though it may become an issue if i decide to upgrade to a 23" Cinema Display... (dream on!)

Not to talk you out of the iBook but Belkin has an adapter that lets you store digital pictures on an iPod too!

the Belkin and iPod solution is a no-go because - although small and handy - it's slow, drains batteries, is limited in diskspace and functionality, costs way to much... but most of all: i cannot be assured that my pictures are on the harddisk unless i've seen them on screen (impossible with iPod).

[kdixey]

Considerations for the powerbook would be (or at least the ones I found)

- The 12" powerbook has the same LCD as the 12" ibook, but it does have video out and 64 mb VRAM as opposed to 32. It can support larger screen resolutions, will have better video performance and it can span without a hack.

- The powerbook has a faster processor and system bus making overall performance better.

- I think the build quality of the powerbook is better (the keyboard is defintely better).

- You have the option for a larger/faster drive on the powerbook (80gb @5400 rpm) than on the ibook.


On the flip side...

- The ibook has better airport recpetion

- The Lexan/plastic ibook body is more durable (although it does scratch pretty easily).

- The ibook is cheaper.


You might consider getting a refurbished 15" powerbook. As a digital photographer I can tell you the one feature the 15" powerbooks have that I find hugely useful on the job is the PC card slot, I use it to get pictures off of the film cards. It's faster than a card reader and it's one less piece of equipment to hooked up. Also, the 15" powerbooks (AL or Tibook) have sharper, brighter screens, better screen resolution and if you look around you could probably find one for a reasonable price.

[f1000]

Originally posted by Usual Suspects:
but that's not needed for CRT monitors, right? though it may become an issue if i decide to upgrade to a 23" Cinema Display... (dream on!)

Yes, you don't need a DVI port if you're only going to use a CRT, but LCD prices are falling so fast you may soon find yourself trashing your CRT.

Originally posted by Usual Suspects:
the Belkin and iPod solution is a no-go because - although small and handy - it's slow, drains batteries, is limited in diskspace and functionality, costs way to much... but most of all: i cannot be assured that my pictures are on the harddisk unless i've seen them on screen (impossible with iPod).

Isn't there a rumor about upcoming iPods with color screens?

[Usual Suspects]

i might find the time today to go to the local store and check out those lovely portables in real life...

Isn't there a rumor about upcoming iPods with color screens?

maybe, but the thing is: i want a computer that's portable, not a music device that can be tuned to store pictures...

[peterwynne]

You can do closed lid screen mirroring operation with PB + iBook. I use Sleepless - very handy!

[andretan]

Originally posted by peterwynne:
You can do closed lid screen mirroring operation with PB + iBook. I use Sleepless - very handy!

I thought there's the heat issues if you work with the iBook's lid down?

[wvx]

The PowerBook G4 12" is sooo much more powerful. It has a pro level G4, where as the iBook has a consumer G4. It's a huge difference when dealing with images and video and all that type of stuff. Get it with a big hard drive and lots of memory and you'll have a true desktop replacement.

[Nerozwei]

Originally posted by wvx:
The PowerBook G4 12" is sooo much more powerful. It has a pro level G4, where as the iBook has a consumer G4. It's a huge difference when dealing with images and video and all that type of stuff. Get it with a big hard drive and lots of memory and you'll have a true desktop replacement.

I'll have to disagree on that "Pro level G4". It now seems that the whole line up from the GHz iBook to the 1.5GHz PowerBooks all use the MOT 7447A. Sure the iBook has less clock frequency, but then again it's faster (a merely 66MHz, but still ) than the 12" PB sold a month ago. The cache size is the same these days (512K) and the 1GHz 12" PB also had a 133MHz bus and 32MB of VRAM.

Sure the 12" PB is better (+0.33GHz, +33MHz bus, +32MB VRAM), but the processor is not that different. In the olden days PBs had L3 cache which helped them, but to my understanding the 7447A does not even support L3.

But if you've got the ca$h and need the features (official spanning support, DVI, etc.), get the PowerBook. It's faster, but not from another world, in my opinion.

[kdixey]

The 12" powerbook and ibook are really very similar machines. The powerbook is faster and has a handful of features the ibook doesn't. If you need those features it's easier to buy them up front than to add them later (if you can). If you don't need those extra features then get the ibook. The current versions of the 12" ibook and powerbook are much closer in performance than they have been since the ibook got the 512 L2 cache. In fact, the sport exactly the same processor (I believe the eMac has the same one as well).

Where it gets a little more complicated is if you are looking at a fully loaded BTO ibook . A fully loaded ibook (with Bluetooth, Airport extreme, bigger HD etc.) starts to get much closer to the cost a 12" powerbook that already has most of those features included. If you are a student you get the added bonus of the educational discount on the powerbook being twice what it is for the ibook (makes sense, the ibook is a much better seller).

Either way, they are both terrific machines. when I was deciding my wife had a great suggestion. She told me to imagine that both machines were the same price and decide soley on the basis of features and performance. In a few months I won't remember the few hundred dollars difference if the machine is doing what I want, but I'll remember EXACTLY what I paid for it if its missing some key feature that the OTHER machine had and I passed it up.

Just my 2 cents.

[Usual Suspects]

for the moment i really don't care about bluetooth or airport...
and for daily use, my wife's 15" iMac (800Mhz - 512MB) does the trick in an acceptable way...

this makes the 12" iBook with 768MB memory and 60GB harddrive a very good, portable upgrade at a more than reasonable price!

but, i'm a little worried about the lack of DVI out... my intention is to span with my current 19" CRT when working on my photographs; but if i understand correctly, it will be a problem if i want to hook up a flatscreen later on?

also what is the catch with the 'mini-dvi' on the 12" powerbook?

thank you all for 'educating' me ;-)

[Nerozwei]

but, i'm a little worried about the lack of DVI out... my intention is to span with my current 19" CRT when working on my photographs; but if i understand correctly, it will be a problem if i want to hook up a flatscreen later on?

also what is the catch with the 'mini-dvi' on the 12" powerbook?
[/B]

You can plug some (at the moment most) flatscreens with a normal connector. DVI is better though, no digital-analog-digital conversion.

As for the mini-DVI connector, I think you just have to plug in a converter to get a normal DVI connector. Just like with the iBooks monitor port, you get a short cable with connectors on each end, one fits the monitor one fits the computer.

[CrackedButter]

I was up in the air ever since apple released the new laptops, i wanted the 12" PB so much but i also wanted to pay the price for the iBook.

In the end i i decided that i could spend more on other stuff if i get the iBook, i use it for college and its saved me money so i could easily afford the Fuji S7000 for my photography. It is afterall last rev's PB but in white.

[escher]

Originally posted by peterwynne:
You can do closed lid screen mirroring operation with PB + iBook. I use Sleepless - very handy!

peterwynne: However, can you increase the resolution on the external monitor beyond 1024x768? Unfortunately, I don't think so. Have you tried combining Sleepless with the spanning hack?

Originally posted by Usual Suspects:
* powerbook has display options that aren't available to the patched ibook (is it possible to turn of the internal display and allocating more video memory to the external monitor?).

Usual Suspects: Others have alluded to this, but I will restate it more explicitly. The spanning hack for the iBook does have an option for clamshell mode (for running the iBook with the lid closed, and only with the external monitor). However, in the hacked clamshell mode, the VRAM is still split in half between the internal and external screens (even though the internal screen is off an you are not using it!). The developer of the spanning hack says that he cannot fix the split-VRAM problem.

For me, the lack of reliable clamshell support in a hacked iBook clenched the deal on a Rev.C 12-inch PowerBook. Other advantages were smaller size and lighter weight, faster bus, higher clock speed, and availability of the 80GB 5400rpm drive in BTO configuration. I already have a high-quality external 17" LCD panel (with three inputs to share with my PC desktop). For my use, the Rev.C 12-inch PowerBook is a perfect desktop replacement.

Nonetheless, the iBook is a very attractively priced laptop. My 3 year-old iBook/500 is the best value of any computer I have ever owned. The new 1Ghz 12" iBook is an even better value. You just have to decide what balance of price and features you desire and can afford.

Escher

[Michel_80]

The 12 inch Ibook (with edu discount) is such a good deal. 12 inch PB is not that superior (same screen, about the same performance).

[kdixey]

I would be curious to know how many people WANT their ibook as it comes standard or want to build it up with bigger HD, Airport and Bluetooth. It was adding up all the extras that I was planning to get via BTO that I started to realize how good a deal the 12" powerbook is.

Considering the relatively small difference in price (about $225) the I feel 12" powerbook is a better value. The 12" powerbook and 12" ibook are very similar in performance, but the powerbook comes standard with Airport card, Bluetooth and twice the hard drive of the 12" combo ibook. In addition, the powerbook has twice the VRAM, a faster system bus, faster RAM, audio in, fully supported video out and a better educational discount to boot. If what you want is a fully loaded 12" mac laptop then the powerbook is a better value.

If you don't need or care about the extras or don't have any wiggle room in your budget then the the ibook is far and away a better choice. They're both terrific machines and whichever one you choose it'll be a nice reliable laptop that should provide several years of service (my clamshell ibook lasted almost 6 years - try that with a PC laptop).

[andretan]

kdixey: If I had the cash, I'd definitely go for the 12" Powerbook.

The PB will definitely be the better machine in terms of performance and specs.

I'm a 12" iBook user, and when the 12" Powerbook came out, I went "WOW. I want one."

The 12" PB feels much smaller although the size difference isn't that significant. The PB feels more compact.

DVI out and native dual-monitor support is a plus too, as the 12" screen can be pretty limiting by the 1024x768 resolution.

Cheers

[davidflas]

I am a digital photographer on a budget. I shoot with a Sony F717 and have found a laptop to be a great addtion to my mobile darkroom. I was in Brazil last September shooting a calender or a school that helps orphans. Having my powerbook with me was great because I could not only preview the images, but also make cds of the photos to give to the school right away. I sold the powerbook to get a desktop mac and have regretted it since then. I am trading a pc for an 800Mhz ibook G4 and can't wait to get it again. Plus, I like surfing the 'net while I'm in a coffee shop!

Of course a powerbook is better than an ibook, but the screens are the same and the new iBooks really offer great bang for the buck. Just my two cents...

[andretan]

Originally posted by davidflas:
Of course a powerbook is better than an ibook, but the screens are the same and the new iBooks really offer great bang for the buck. Just my two cents...

Are they the same?

I always thought that the Powerbooks come with much better screens than the iBooks...

[wschultz]

I too went through the same thing - PB v iBook. (I don't qualify for ed dsct.) I'm getting the 12" iBook fully loaded/BTO (BT, AE, 60GB). I don't do any of the pro stuff like video editing so the clincher for me was price (1323$ ibook v 1599$ pb). That 275$ is going to buy me applecare And I've heard that the ibook is more durable. I basically use the puter for surfing, word/excel, and fun stuff (not gaming). So, I patiently await my new book

PS - I just ordered the powersleevz bag from Booqbags.com.

[Usual Suspects]

I made up my mind: iBook it 'll be!
RAM & HD maxed out...

it's still substantially cheaper than the powerbook, and there's so much gear i want to buy for my camera. i'm convinced i'll be very happy with it (my first laptop!)

thanks for all your comments! ;-)

[kdixey]

Congratulations and enjoy the new ibook, they're big fun. You'll love having a laptop and the ibook is a terrific choice. You might consider getting the RAM somewhere other than Apple (as they tend to be expensive on RAM). Everyone has their favorite, I have gotten mine from transintl.com and have been very happy with it.

Something you might consider with the money you're saving...

I would invest in a decent photo database. I think you'll find iphoto really isn't up to the challenge for someone with any more than a casual interest in digital photography. I use iview media pro, I've shot about 70,000 images over the past year and it has been a godsend to have such a nicely thought out, robust piece of software in my toolbox. If I had to use iphoto for that many pictures I would have gone crazy.

[Usual Suspects]

Something you might consider with the money you're saving...

iview media pro is exactly what i was looking for... thanks for the tip, i'll check it out!

[Michel_80]

Originally posted by andretan:
Are they the same?

I always thought that the Powerbooks come with much better screens than the iBooks...

They are the same 12 inch screens.

[jnrjr79]

From what I had heard, they were the same screens until this latest revision. I thought that now the PB has a different (better) screen. I may be mistaken with this, however.

[escher]

Originally posted by jnrjr79:
From what I had heard, they were the same screens until this latest revision. I thought that now the PB has a different (better) screen. I may be mistaken with this, however.

I suspect that Apple sources its 12" LCD panels from wherever it can get them cheapest, while meeting its minimum specifications. Over the 3 years that they've sold 12" 1024x768 iBooks and PowerBooks, there have probably been many different sources. I would think that any improvements or decreases in LCD quality would have to do with a change in source, rather than an intentional feature up- or downgrade (at least with the standard aspect 12" screens, which are a commodity product).

Just like the hard disk drives (IBM/Hitachi, Fujitsu, etc.), optical drives (Matsushita/Panasonic, Sony, etc.), and memory are procured from many different manufacturers, so are LCD panels. Quality will vary. Sometimes to our benefit, sometimes to our detriment.

All we can do is hope for the best, and complain if an item is of unacceptably low (below minimum specification) quality.

Escher

[krassy]

i know both the 12" iBook and 12" Powerbook and i'd buy the Powerbook a hundred times over the iBook just because the iBook gets scratches that look very ugly!!! i also would buy it because of the 333Mhz difference in G4-Power and i would buy it because of the non-hack-dual-monitor support! and because of the build-in and well-functioning bluetooth and airport - sooner or later you'll be glad that you have those features. and last but not least it just looks way better -> it's thinner and weights less. it also has better graphics and i read somewhere that the display isn't the same but i can't say myself if this is right.

[Le Flaneur]

Originally posted by Michel_80:
They are the same 12 inch screens.

Someone (on Macintouch?) quoted an Apple Store employee who said that the new PowerBooks most certainly DO NOT have the same screen as the iBooks.

It would be nice to have confirmation of this.

[jsfrederick]

Bookendz has a nice docking module that plugs into the side of the powerbook. Makes using it at home with a keyboard and monitior MUCH easier. http://www.bookendzdocks.com/bookendz/index.htm

[BobVB]

Originally posted by kdixey:
If you don't need or care about the extras or don't have any wiggle room in your budget then the the ibook is far and away a better choice. They're both terrific machines and whichever one you choose it'll be a nice reliable laptop that should provide several years of service (my clamshell ibook lasted almost 6 years - try that with a PC laptop).

One big plus the iBook has the Powerbook doesn't is durability. I've stepped on my iBook by accident without a single sideeffect - I don't think I could have done that with a Powerbook and their soft exteriors.

I use my laptop as a tool and not have to treat it like a delicate flower - my original iBook as a matte finish from all the abuse its taken but it still works just like it was brand new.

[Necrocool]

The more durable saying isn't necessarily true. I own woth iBook and PowerBook 12" ... I'd say the PowerBook is much more scratch resistant due to it's aluminum casing. Once you own an iBook it's going to be pretty scratched up in a short period, but a PowerBook always look new no matter where i threw it. In terms of dropping them.. i think iBook wins... Plastic is harder to bend than metal... but you can try to bend it back if it ever happens.. lol j/k