Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

I WAS the One · Oct 21, 2005, 05:06 PM

People check this out! somehow, somebody could make the dock for windows users, with the animations and all... if Windows Vista will have a Dock then Apple has to get rid of it and make an ultra dock or whatever because maybe they can copy cat the entire features from us and then we all gonna look like "another-system-with-same-features" dudes. check it out yourselves here:
WINDOWS DOCK WANNABE

teney7 · Oct 21, 2005, 05:29 PM

maybe I am a complete idiot for thinking this, but I believe that has got to be a joke of some kind. No way they could get away with something so similar... the iCal icon is exactly the same except it is blue...

cybergoober · Oct 21, 2005, 05:34 PM

It is real. And it's been out for quite a while, actually…

I WAS the One · Oct 21, 2005, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by cybergoober

It is real. And it's been out for quite a while, actually…

WHAT??? NO WAY!!!

teney7 · Oct 21, 2005, 05:40 PM

If it is truly out, then I truly hate Windows. If they are going to copy Apple blow-for-blow, they might as well screw themselves.

Colonel Panic · Oct 21, 2005, 05:54 PM

Why do you hate Microsoft for this? Isn't this a 3rd party mod to Windows?

dazzla · Oct 21, 2005, 06:03 PM

Huh? This has been out for well over a year. One of the first and best was Yz Dock, the author was sent a C&D by Apple and stopped production. Stardock then went and created Objectdock without being touched by Apple. This has since spawned loads of Windows dock apps such as mobydock etc.

Shark026 · Oct 21, 2005, 08:26 PM

Wow....where the hell have you all been! lol It has been out for a few years! I know because I used ObjectDock before I got my Mac. I must say that it is actually better than the dock used in Mac OSX. You can do a lot with it actually, like adding actual separators, adding applications to check weather and such. I wish that Stardock would create a dock for OSX, it would be great!

Helmling · Oct 21, 2005, 08:30 PM

I've seen windows users with an entire shell made to look like OSX, boot screen and all.

But it's just a shell. They could loop a video of a Mac desktop full screen, that doesn't mean their computers are any better.

We have nothing to fear from Windows. Nothing, ever.

I WAS the One · Oct 21, 2005, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by Shark026

Wow....where the hell have you all been! lol It has been out for a few years! I know because I used ObjectDock before I got my Mac. I must say that it is actually better than the dock used in Mac OSX. You can do a lot with it actually, like adding actual separators, adding applications to check weather and such. I wish that Stardock would create a dock for OSX, it would be great!

keep playing with your PC kid, this is a Mac thread.

I WAS the One · Oct 21, 2005, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Helmling

I've seen windows users with an entire shell made to look like OSX, boot screen and all.

But it's just a shell. They could loop a video of a Mac desktop full screen, that doesn't mean their computers are any better.

We have nothing to fear from Windows. Nothing, ever.

love your point of view. very clear and precise. but between you and me, I really hate copy cats. and we all know who change the way we all use computers these days, the GUI wasn't an Apple invention, but it was Apple who use it on a Personal Computer for the first time. damn Microsoft.

gruneeitelkeit · Oct 22, 2005, 03:09 PM

This stuff has been out forever. I believe this screenshot is using yzdock. Objectbar is also out. Yes there are people on Windows who make their GUI look exactly like a mac. So what? I don't understand you people who are so absorbed in the mac world and always rant on about how bad windows is. And when they finally make improvements, you guys just get madder. Learn to accept that when there are good ideas, other people use them. I don't see you getting mad when microsoft office came to OS X. Or when games orginally from windows came to OS X. Or when OS X released Virtual PC. Or when Windows themes are ported to OS X. Etc. Grow up.
While we are on this point, let me say there are some things Windows is good for, and somethings macs are good for. Try to be less narrowminded and and stop worshipping steve jobs. The fact that you guys didn't know there were mac themes on windows, docks on windows just goes to show how ignorant you are. They've been around for over half a decade.

Maflynn · Oct 22, 2005, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by I WAS the One

WHAT??? NO WAY!!!

Stardock had a varient of this years ago on OS/2 so clearly this is not a new idea for apple or windows platforms.

Mike

tracemhunter · Oct 22, 2005, 04:11 PM

yea stardock has been out for a long time. except it takes up a bunch of resources.

esXXI · Oct 22, 2005, 07:27 PM

Yeah! Boo Microsoft for third party companies releasing apps that resemble an OS X feature!!!

Someone sue Microsoft!!!

Oh.

Jerk_circus · Oct 22, 2005, 08:08 PM

I'd hate to break it to all of your, but that is OLD news (as some of you have already mentioned). And if just the emulation of a dock gets you angry, this will outrage you. http://www.osx-e.com/

And yes, all those pics you see, ARE Windows PCs.

I can understand some of the shock, but Helmling said it best. We have nothing to fear.

gnomexp · Oct 22, 2005, 08:19 PM

Guys.... this app has been out for YEARS. Some people make icons to resemble OS X. Other people use it with Vista icons, or other stuff. Just because it is functional doesn't mean people can't use it.

MacDog · Oct 23, 2005, 12:54 PM

If we Mac users had even a sliver of the talented Windows themers, we wouldn't have time to piss and moan about a rip-off of an app (the Dock) that most of hated when it was released anyway because we'd be too busy trying new themes!

This is comical to see people calling them out for ripping, when virtually EVERY theme we have for the Mac is either a rip of Aqua or another windows theme!

gnomexp · Oct 23, 2005, 08:01 PM

Exactly MacDog... if you want to see some quality releases and sources for inspiration, go to www.aqua-soft.org. Sure, there are some butchered themes, but others are great! Plus.... haven't you been looking for some quality aqua walls?

esXXI · Oct 23, 2005, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by MacDog

If we Mac users had even a sliver of the talented Windows themers, we wouldn't have time to piss and moan about a rip-off of an app (the Dock) that most of hated when it was released anyway because we'd be too busy trying new themes!

This is comical to see people calling them out for ripping, when virtually EVERY theme we have for the Mac is either a rip of Aqua or another windows theme!

Sorry but this got a "WTF!" from me. This is one of the most inane comments I've yet to see on MacNN. Not only are you putting down some of the most talented themers on any OS - like Max Rudberg - but you're saying most of them just do Windows themes? Are you completely forgetting that nearly every popular Mac theme has been ported to Windows - yet only a tiny handful have been ported from Windows to Mac?

Besides all that, saying we wouldn't complain if we had more themers is.. Totally illogical. Oh I suppose if we had a hundred new themers, suddenly it doesn't matter if something is copied.

GnomeXP: AS used to be a great place. Now it's just an ego-based circle-jerk. Any released gets swarms of "thank you"s and "omg thats great!!" - even when the work is pure ****. No-one has the balls to say "you can improve on this by.." - just look at MacThemes Forum now. People are trying to turn it in to the same thing. If you criticize anything you get people going 'WOT UR BEING MEEN!1" - as if just because it's in a release forum you can't even comment on the actual methods and styles used in a release.

And to say there's more innovation there is stupid. Of course you're going to get a larger number of original themes when the Windows theming community has like ten times more people.

I WAS the One · Oct 23, 2005, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by esXXI

Sorry but this got a "WTF!" from me. This is one of the most inane comments I've yet to see on MacNN. Not only are you putting down some of the most talented themers on any OS - like Max Rudberg - but you're saying most of them just do Windows themes? Are you completely forgetting that nearly every popular Mac theme has been ported to Windows - yet only a tiny handful have been ported from Windows to Mac?

Besides all that, saying we wouldn't complain if we had more themers is.. Totally illogical. Oh I suppose if we had a hundred new themers, suddenly it doesn't matter if something is copied.

GnomeXP: AS used to be a great place. Now it's just an ego-based circle-jerk. Any released gets swarms of "thank you"s and "omg thats great!!" - even when the work is pure ****. No-one has the balls to say "you can improve on this by.." - just look at MacThemes Forum now. People are trying to turn it in to the same thing. If you criticize anything you get people going 'WOT UR BEING MEEN!1" - as if just because it's in a release forum you can't even comment on the actual methods and styles used in a release.

And to say there's more innovation there is stupid. Of course you're going to get a larger number of original themes when the Windows theming community has like ten times more people.

I'm with you, man...

Xidius · Oct 24, 2005, 08:37 AM

Windows docks, and GUI kits to make it look like OSX have been out for over 3 years now.

- Xidius

CaptainHaddock · Oct 24, 2005, 09:02 AM

Don't worry, Windows dock wannabes never work nearly as well as the OS X dock. Windows just isn't drag-and-drop enough, it lacks a multi-document interface, and it handles applications differently (i.e. poorly).

You can put a steering wheel on a Radio Flyer wagon, but it won't work the same as the one on a Ferrari.

(Yes, I'm one OS X user who really likes the Dock.)

MacDog · Oct 24, 2005, 10:48 AM

This is one of the most inane comments I've yet to see on MacNN.

You obviously don't read much here then... including your own post.

Not only are you putting down some of the most talented themers on any OS - like Max Rudberg - but you're saying most of them just do Windows themes?

Um, no, I'm not. Nowhere did I say that any of our themers were bad. I also didn't say they ONLY did Windows themes – obviously they do Mac themes. But the fact remains that MOST of the themes available for Mac OSX are nothing more than recolored or fine-tuned Aqua – including MOST of Max's themes, since you brought his name up.

Are you completely forgetting that nearly every popular Mac theme has been ported to Windows

No, I'm not. That's kind of my point.

et only a tiny handful have been ported from Windows to Mac?

Yeah, because we have no themers for the Mac that aren't either in school, busy with their real job, or too busy patting themselves (and each other) on the back trying to convince themselves they're some kind of cultural phoenoms.

And before you try to put more spin on that comment, let me say that I don't believe ALL the Mac themers have that attitude, just a select (and vocal) few. Some of them go about their daily lives and crank out some great themes with little fanfare and need for praise.

I suspect we would have more themes if an easier way of doing it was available, however we're stuck with ThemePark, and despite how much easier it has made it for people who want to learn it, it's about as user unfriendly as it can get. All the "tutorials" available are laughable at best, and I don't see you offering to help anyone learn either. The fact is that theming on the Mac is just plain too difficult, and you can't even do much due to the nature of the OS.

saying we wouldn't complain if we had more themers is.. Totally illogical. Oh I suppose if we had a hundred new themers, suddenly it doesn't matter if something is copied.

First of all, I wasn't referring to themes. What I said was if we had more themes to play with, we wouldn't have much time to complain about stupid things such as a Dock app copy. I tell you what, remove the "themers" and put games, would that make you happy?

My point is that it's stupid to to complain about this dock copy because not only is it perfectly acceptable to copy apps, it's encouraged. Don't believe me? I don't remember you complaining about Unsanity when they copied WindowShadeX from Apple, or Xounds or LabelsX – In fact, all I ever see people say to smeger is "great job, when do we get more." And rightfully so. Unsanity took some ideas Apple did and made them better. I don't remember hearing too many people complain about Apple with the absolute TON of apps and features that they've copied over the years. Virtually every app they have is a copy of something else.

I used "themers" as an example, if you're too full of yourself, or to anxious to get in a pissing contest, then that isn't my problem.

AS used to be a great place. Now it's just an ego-based circle-jerk.

Yeah, they must have been taking a close look at this place for a long time.

Any released gets swarms of "thank you"s and "omg thats great!!" - even when the work is pure ****.

And that differs from here how?

Any time anyone tries to criticize a themer or theme in this place, half of you jump on the persons back because you don't think it's a valid comment or you just plain don't want to hear it – followed by the all-to-easy "if you think it sucks, make your own damn theme" comment.

And to say there's more innovation there is stupid. Of course you're going to get a larger number of original themes when the Windows theming community has like ten times more people.

Uh, yeah. Isn't that what I said when I stated "if we had a sliver of the talented themers from Windows..." Of course they have more themers, duh. I wish we had a few of them over here in the Mac world. Did you have a point in rewording what I already said? Or were you hoping to spin what I said to make it appear as though you somehow shed some light on something? Or, do you really like to see your words on the screen, which is what I suspect.

gruneeitelkeit · Oct 24, 2005, 12:01 PM

MacDog, you are my hero.

digitaljames · Oct 24, 2005, 01:41 PM

pluswan........

siMac · Oct 24, 2005, 03:14 PM

I think that there are some outstanding themes for Windows out there, largely because Windows is much more flexible when it comes to skinning. Mac themers are severely limited by Aqua's rigid layout and because any theming involves kludging an OS whose interface was never meant to be changed. We can't use borders, change fonts, rearrange widgets, modify animation behaviour or generally change the layout of the interface, so of course we are limited in what we can achieve.

Saying that the Mac theme community needs the talent of Windows skinners is not a fair comment because the playing fields aren't level. I agree with you when you say many OSX themes are just recoloured aqua, because that's exactly what they are. That's basically all we are able to do - recolour aqua elements - and I think that given these constraints and given the daunting task that creating every one of the thousands of elements that make up aqua represents, we have some excellent (and dedicated!) GUI artists on our team. Moreover, as someone mentioned, that so many OSX themes get ported to Windows speaks volumes for the quality of the work OSX artists are able to put out despite the severe restrictions of the medium.

kmkkid · Oct 24, 2005, 06:03 PM

OMG, Zealots!!!!!

Oh wait, they've been around for years too.

Shark026 · Oct 24, 2005, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by I WAS the One

keep playing with your PC kid, this is a Mac thread.

As I had said....I used Objectdock "before I got my mac". I know this is a Mac thread dumbass! My PC sits in a corner and collects dust for christ sake

pyn · Oct 24, 2005, 10:19 PM

aqua is restricing, but it prevents shitugly themes like some window themes, but also limits creativity.

object dock is from wayyy back like 2002...

aristotles · Oct 27, 2005, 04:56 PM

I used zDock, Mobydock and Objectdock back when I was a PC user up until 2002. It is nothing to be concerned about. They appeal only to a very small niche of users and are pretty much useless eyecandy considering they do not integrate with windows nor change the behavior of windows apps in how they manage windows.

You cannot, for example, access functionally of an application from its dock icon unless the icon is associated with a plugin which in turn controls the application.

People who like windows themes should get their heads examined. They are either gawdy and over the top, copies of mac themes or uninspired minimalist themes which do not look much different than windows classic. If I wanted that kind of crap on my computer, I'd buy a PC again.

All those "cool" themes on the PC are are actually rehashes of older themes done a couple years ago earlier or ports of enlightenment themes.

Who here still runs shapeshifter on a regular basis? I stopped using it and the other haxies like windowshade because of the drag on performance when watching video like the keynotes. Maybe machines with more horsepower than my old 867Mhz G4 can get away with them running but the last keynote would have been unwatchable if I had not disabled all of that crap and logged out.

@MacDog: Sod off. Do us all a favor and get a PC.

We switchers did not move from windows to the mac because of eye candy but rather because of the ease of use and the apps.

sweetymac · Oct 27, 2005, 05:44 PM

I used to use programs like object dock , yzdock and all that when I used a pc, actually that is the reason why I bought a mac, I just loved the interface but then later learned Mac's work better and look better outside and inside, and the functionality is just great, and not even that hard to customize.

I do use shapeshifter aristotles, I can't really see any difference in it slowing down my computer too much I do notice a slight difference though, have you tried themechanger? I was told that one does not use as much resources but I myself am not comfortable enough to use anything but shapeshifter just coz it has proven the safest for me.

I don't think it matters if window users use some dock it makes a lot of them want a mac if you go to aquasoft or other pc websites who emulate mac interface lots of the people later go and buy a mac and realize how it has a great functionality too and not just the eye candy aspect!

The only difference I see with pc's is there are more themes I think, but not all good one's I used to spend hours looking for a theme I would like, I guess coz more people do use pc's so there are more themes for them but I am really satisfied with the mac community and the amount of customization they have I mean most of the themes we have and icons are ported to windows...and lots of windows ussers really like them! So keep in mind they might convert to macintosh eventually so don't be mad at them using the themes or the dock! I used them and I ended up buying a mac and I really enjoy it!

mpancha · 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by gruneeitelkeit

Yes there are people on Windows who make their GUI look exactly like a mac. So what? I don't understand you people who are so absorbed in the mac world and always rant on about how bad windows is. And when they finally make improvements, you guys just get madder. Learn to accept that when there are good ideas, other people use them. I don't see you getting mad when microsoft office came to OS X. Or when games orginally from windows came to OS X. Or when OS X released Virtual PC. Or when Windows themes are ported to OS X. Etc. Grow up.

While we are on this point, let me say there are some things Windows is good for, and somethings macs are good for. Try to be less narrowminded and and stop worshipping steve jobs. The fact that you guys didn't know there were mac themes on windows, docks on windows just goes to show how ignorant you are. They've been around for over half a decade.

agreed.

Originally Posted by aristotles

We switchers did not move from windows to the mac because of eye candy but rather because of the ease of use and the apps.

not necessarily, I still have a PC, and I still use it. I got a Mac laptop b/c I wanted to try out a mac, and at the time it was one of the few laptops out there with built in wireless and optical drive.. not the only one, but one of.

cruciarius · Oct 27, 2005, 05:49 PM

applications get copied all the time. take photoshop for example. their are several free or less expensive image editing applications that came out after it and all compare themselves to it. the fact is, none of them is nearly as powerful. though that isn't true in all cases.

as for themes and themers, i've seen several amazing themes shown off here, before they get finished and by the end of the week, some windows user already ports it, which pisses the original themer off. sometimes, the original themer trashes the theme and then sometimes, they finish it. either way, the themer isn't happy and the maker of the windows port, is usually very rude about it.

i'd love to really get into themeing (i've only done a few mods), but i agree that Themepark is a bit too complex.

back on topic...i saw tech tv show the windows dock thing off, years ago. though i do think if a company wants to make their own version and go as far as copying the poof smoke, apple should step in and say something.

aristotles · Oct 27, 2005, 10:00 PM

Ok, I will admit that the eye candy of the UI did appeal to me but so did the consistency of the UI on the mac platform. On windows, there is no standard UI for applications and it seems that each version of Office has a whole new set of controls and look and feel.

I work as a windows software developer and I worked for a number of years in technical support as well. Windows is so frustrating to use now that I use mac exclusively at home. No amount of eye candy themes (via window blinds) can make up for a crappy interface.

Folks, I was a Stardock Network subscriber and a heavy user of sites like Aqua-soft pre-fall of 2002. I used all of their products and searched the skin libraries.

I guess, I've mostly outgrown that stuff and find Aqua to be good enough for me. YMMV.

Timan · Oct 27, 2005, 10:41 PM

Keep in mind, sites like aqua-soft, and apps like the stardock suite do sell macs.

gnomexp · Oct 30, 2005, 09:49 PM

Yup... got me addicted to my PowerBook. And to think I wanted a new VAIO.

MacDog · Oct 31, 2005, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by aristotles

the UI did appeal to me but so did the consistency of the UI on the mac platform.

Consistency and UI don't belong in the same sentence when describing the Mac OS anymore... unfortunately.

CaptainHaddock · Oct 31, 2005, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by MacDog

Consistency and UI don't belong in the same sentence when describing the Mac OS anymore... unfortunately.

Hey, it's still way better here in Mac-land.

While the current variety in GUI styles might be disheartening, it doesn't detract much from the great consistency in UI usability. For example, the odd app that uses its own libraries and weird layout* instead of following OS X practices frustrates me to no end these days. Back when I used Windows, things were so fractured, I didn't notice.

Also, I'm glad that Apple isn't afraid to experiment with new GUI looks and steer things in new (improved) directions. Mail and iTunes (for example) may be departures from the standard GUI, but they're testing new ideas. If those ideas are good ones, they'll trickle down to the rest of the OS.

* Flash, Photoshop, Word – I'm looking at you!

smoke-tetsu · Nov 2, 2005, 08:59 PM

I can't believe you all are still talking about this as if it's news. So people like to customize their PC to be more like a mac, big deal, GET OVER IT. Besides, some people who do that end up buying a mac anyway, like me. =p This is old news people!

I WAS the One · Nov 9, 2005, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by smoke-tetsu

This is old news people!

yep. but it is a punch in the face, also. and I don't like it.

Phoenix1701 · Nov 12, 2005, 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by CaptainHaddock

Hey, it's still way better here in Mac-land.

While the current variety in GUI styles might be disheartening, it doesn't detract much from the great consistency in UI usability. For example, the odd app that uses its own libraries and weird layout* instead of following OS X practices frustrates me to no end these days. Back when I used Windows, things were so fractured, I didn't notice.

Also, I'm glad that Apple isn't afraid to experiment with new GUI looks and steer things in new (improved) directions. Mail and iTunes (for example) may be departures from the standard GUI, but they're testing new ideas. If those ideas are good ones, they'll trickle down to the rest of the OS.

* Flash, Photoshop, Word – I'm looking at you!

You know, a couple weeks ago I might not have believed the part about iTunes and Mail and whatnot being testing grounds for new ideas... but recently I attended a talk given by Kim Silverman, Apple's Principal Research Scientist, and asked him about that very issue... and what he told me echoed your explanation almost exactly. He mentioned the Pro apps more than the iApps, but it was clear that the thought was there. I just hope in Leopard they graduate a few more commonly used apps to full consistent status.

CaptainHaddock · Nov 12, 2005, 01:48 AM

Originally Posted by Phoenix1701

You know, a couple weeks ago I might not have believed the part about iTunes and Mail and whatnot being testing grounds for new ideas... but recently I attended a talk given by Kim Silverman, Apple's Principal Research Scientist, and asked him about that very issue... and what he told me echoed your explanation almost exactly. He mentioned the Pro apps more than the iApps, but it was clear that the thought was there. I just hope in Leopard they graduate a few more commonly used apps to full consistent status.

Cool, that sounds like an interesting talk. What else did Mr. Silverman have to say?

Tick · Nov 14, 2005, 02:35 PM

ahem

Guys, this is stupid. You are all acting like a bunch of kids in the first grade at recess unwilling to share your sandwhich. Get over yourselves.

Tick · Nov 14, 2005, 02:36 PM

oops, dual post

triskele · Nov 15, 2005, 12:59 AM

I appologize for not reading the entire thread but the way one of you desribed the customizability it sounds almost exactly like the XFCE4/4.2 Panel for Linux just prettier. http://www.xfce.org/images/demos/panel.html

cleanup · Nov 15, 2005, 04:03 AM

Originally Posted by I WAS the One

yep. but it is a punch in the face, also. and I don't like it.

Why not?

People copy each other all the time. In school, people copy each others' work. In society, people copy popular culture. In the Mac emulation world, Windows users copy Mac OS X.

I used to do it, before I got my iMac.

What's wrong with it? The only piece of Mac-emulation software that's received a C&D from Apple is Yz'Dock (you can still find copies of it floating around the Internet)... there are many other programs that are completely legit, such as...

WindowFX (Window customiser)
ObjectBar (Mac OS X Menu Bar Emulator)
WindowBlinds (Theme Program)
RocketDock (Dock)
ObjectDock (Dock)
MobyDock (Dock)
YzShadow (OS X-like window drop shadows)
WinRoll (emulates WindowShade X)
Winplosion (Expose imitation)
AveDesk (desklet program)
Konfabulator (several Dashboard widgets have been ported to Konfabulator for use on both Macs and Windows PCs)

plus more.

Saying it's a "punch in the face" is truly waving the I-Orgasm-Over-Apple flag. Apple is not worth such devotion.

d4nth3m4n · Nov 15, 2005, 06:34 PM

isn't that an empire apple?

JoshuaZ · Nov 16, 2005, 12:52 AM

He he he... one of my room mates in college bought a whole bunch of little Windows apps to make his XP box look like OS X. Didn`t stop the thing from crashing, and looked a bit lame.

Long story short he now owns a powerbook.

mugget · Nov 20, 2005, 05:18 AM

someone already said it but... omg zealots again.

that's the last thing we need - more Mac/Apple zealots.

and watch out! we may be in lots of trouble! VitrualPC - that's Windows on OS X - sacrelige! zealots form your posse! lol

I WAS the One - what is the story behind your sig? i don't get it...