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You are here: MacNN Forums > News > Mac News > Opinion: Should Apple release a desktop computer that runs iOS?

Opinion: Should Apple release a desktop computer that runs iOS? (Page 2)
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Spheric Harlot
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Nov 29, 2015, 05:05 PM
 
What happens to the interface? When you touch, do the apps immediately reload into touch-compatible versions, or does it let you try to operate teensy controls and close boxes with your fingers?

What happens to touch apps when you connect a mouse? Is the pointer just another layer of interface that doesn't actually let you do anything that requires multi-touch?

If that's what happens, you consistently have half a broken and one working interface, simultaneously, all the time.

(The Surface I've used had a trackpad/keyboard cover...it's been a while)
     
WizOSX
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Nov 29, 2015, 06:53 PM
 
The sorts of things you suggest are just what I expected to happen based on Windows 8.1. In Windows 10, so far I have had no problems at all directly operating the teensy close boxes and controls--I haven't missed one yet. I don't know what Microsoft did to make them that easy to hit on such a small screen. The difference on this issue between 8.1 and 10 is night and day. To give it a test I tried to do two of the sorts of "desktop productivity" type tasks that I do on my Mac many times day. First, I created an Excel chart by entering data and equations and then manipulating the chart (axes, fonts, etc.). I was able to do it touch-only in about the same time it would have taken with a mouse--and it was very intuitive. Then a created a document in Word that had equations, a graph and text mixed on the page. The handles on the shapes for the graph were just as easy to manipulate as in a drawing program on my iPad Air and easier than on my iPhone 6 Plus. Overall I'd say that Excel and Word in Windows 10 are more touch friendly and successful for touch based productivity than Pages and Numbers on an iPad Air.
     
WizOSX
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Nov 29, 2015, 07:07 PM
 
Re: your questions about touch apps and a mouse. It seems to me that if you buy a piece of software that is especially touch oriented then you will use it with touch. If I have a pen and a paintbrush on my desk I know ahead of time that they will each do different things and I pick up the one best suited to the task. That doesn't mean the interface is half broken nor is the analogy one that even the most basic user would find confusing.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Nov 29, 2015, 07:38 PM
 
The most basic user has no preconceived knowledge about what should be touch and what should be mouse-pointer oriented.

Having both and not having them be equally capable or even applicable at all times is in itself confusing.
     
WizOSX
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Nov 29, 2015, 07:41 PM
 
Precisely because they have no received notion is why they would quickly adjust to any differences.
     
WizOSX
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Nov 29, 2015, 07:50 PM
 
I'm just sitting here thinking of all of the ways I'll be able to use the differences between mouse and touch input. Alternating between the two between based on the strengths of each will, at least for me, be a powerful productivity enhancer.
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 29, 2015, 09:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by WizOSX View Post
This all again says to me that Sanjiv's computer can be easily done and be a very satisfying experience for a broad range of users.
Nobody is doubting whether it can be done, it can. It's be trivial for Apple to slap a touch screen onto its MacBooks and iMacs. And in some sense, it'd be easier because OS X is more advanced (it has been 30 years since its birth as NextStep). But I think it's better to keep things separate so that you can establish new ways of doing things rather than just take it from the mouse pointer-based interface. A whole generation grows up touch first, just like I grew up GUI first (my first computer was an Amiga 500 in 1987 or 1988). To them having a mouse pointer is not an asset, it is a liability.

The iPad Pro has crossed the threshold for me that I would like to work with an iPad Pro rather than a MacBook Pro. But that is just me, other people will need to wait longer until iOS has advanced significantly enough.
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WizOSX
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Nov 29, 2015, 09:33 PM
 
But I think many Mac/iPad users would prefer to have it all in one device. I would much prefer to pay Apple $3000 for their (better) take on the Surface Pro 4 than pay them $1000 for an iPad and $1500 for an iMac. Apple and I would both be better off. With the two in one I can do whatever I want, wherever I want, which is the way everything is going.

On the question of touch software, I think your argument would have been true in the past. But precisely because so many people want touch now, there is little risk that software developers will just produce warmed over mouse stuff for touch.
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 29, 2015, 11:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by WizOSX View Post
But I think many Mac/iPad users would prefer to have it all in one device.
That doesn't mean it is the better thing to do long-term — especially from the perspective of the user.
Originally Posted by WizOSX View Post
On the question of touch software, I think your argument would have been true in the past. But precisely because so many people want touch now, there is little risk that software developers will just produce warmed over mouse stuff for touch.
I beg to differ: you cannot optimize an interface for two interaction paradigms, Microsoft tried that and failed miserably. This is what makes Apple's approach better, it allows software manufacturers to rethink their products and come up with new solutions. Adobe could port (full desktop) Photoshop to iOS, but they opted instead to break it up into smaller pieces of software that are optimized for certain use cases. Rethinking software is what will make iOS better at certain tasks than desktop operating systems. And IMHO that is why Microsoft will not see much success with touch-based apps. What killer apps runs only on the touch-based UI of Surface but not on an iPad Pro?
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WizOSX
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Nov 29, 2015, 11:14 PM
 
Microsoft failed in Windows 8.1 but they have blended the two interaction paradigms very well in Windows 10. I don't want to start sounding like a Windows booster--OS X is still, overall, better. In fact the two outstanding things about Windows 10 are, first, that it looks and works so much like OS X and secondly, the successful blending of the two interaction paradigms.
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 29, 2015, 11:37 PM
 
I'm not talking about the operating system, I'm talking about applications: what touch-based killer applications are there on Windows 10 that cannot be realized on iOS? I don't know of any.
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WizOSX
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Nov 30, 2015, 01:06 AM
 
I guess the answer is Microsoft Office. I've tried to use Pages and Numbers but they just aren't rich enough in features to fill my needs and in iOS they're not even close. Office on an iPad is very good, to my mind one of the best things about an iPad, but it still lacks some very important pieces (equations in Word and forms and controls in Excel). So my perfect computer is one that can do everything that Office in OS X can do but also include touch.
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 30, 2015, 04:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by WizOSX View Post
I guess the answer is Microsoft Office.
Microsoft Office runs on the iPad Pro, and not some cut down version, you get the full echilada. Moreover, the Office apps do not really showcase the power of touch. Touch will win only if it is better.
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Steve Wilkinson
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Nov 30, 2015, 05:29 AM
 
(Haven't read the whole thread... maybe get to that tomorrow.. but)

@ Sanjiv -

re: "I'm not suggesting Apple should stop making Macs running OS X - I get that for you, and many people (including myself) that would be a catastrophe."

And, since you, I, and those many people aren't part of the big pie slice anymore, that catastrophe might be on it's way.

re: "Does that however, mean, that therefore Apple shouldn't release a version of iOS powering a mini desktop, to go along with the rest of their product line?"

It's called an iPad Pro.

Apple could certainly make a mini-desktop (even mini'er than the Mac mini?) that runs on the A-series, but it would need to be running OS X to be useful.

re: "We are at a point where ARM-based hardware is crossing over into desktop power, so let's take the absolute simplicity of that experience back to the desktop."

HARDWARE! But putting a mobile-touch OS on such hardware intended for desktop use would be counter-productive. Why? Just because you see iOS as simpler? If that's the issue they could just slap an 'easy mode' on OS X like they've done in the past. But, the point of a desktop is having a pointer/keyboard based OS.
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Mike Wuerthele
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Nov 30, 2015, 10:35 AM
 
I may have missed this remark, but the fourth generation Apple TV could easily be turned into an iOS desktop, should Apple see fit to do so.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Nov 30, 2015, 12:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mike Wuerthele View Post
I may have missed this remark, but the fourth generation Apple TV could easily be turned into an iOS desktop, should Apple see fit to do so.
The HARDWARE, yes.
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 30, 2015, 08:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mike Wuerthele View Post
I may have missed this remark, but the fourth generation Apple TV could easily be turned into an iOS desktop, should Apple see fit to do so.
Hardware-wise, this would be a trivial exercise for Apple, just as they could easily add touch input to their MacBooks. The problem is the software, not the hardware. If I read these requests for an “iPad running OS X”, to me what people really want is a MacBook with OS X on it that is as easy to use as an iPad. Software-wise, we are not there yet.
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