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RogerR · Nov 30, 2005, 07:53 PM

I came across this brief article at the Inquirer:
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=27770
and it provides some information about the different speeds and power consumption requirements of the Yonah processor as recently released by Intel to manufacturers.

As I look at the information they provide, it strikes me that the chipset most likely to go in a PowerBook in a month or so (if Apple indeed intends to have an Intel PowerBook ready in January; we'll have to wait and see) is the low-voltage dual-core chip clocked at 1.66, with a 667 bus and 2 MB cache. While faster Yonah chips will be available (up to 2.16), their higher power consumptions might make them more suitable to an iMac, and less suitable to the thin form of the PowerBook.

Putting aside the software and/or Rosetta emulation-speed issues, going from the current single-core G4 at 1.67 with 167 bus and 512 KB cache to this low-voltage Yonah, which is one of the slower-clocked Yonahs, would still provide 4x the bus speed, 4x the cache, and 2x the processor cores. Plus, it would allow the DDR2 ram to clock at full speed, rather than being downclocked to 333 Mhz. That should make for a substantial performance boost, all without generating noticeably more heat than current models and possibly generating even longer battery life. Seems more likely to me than a PowerBook using the faster, but hotter, 2Ghz+ Yonahs.

Do people agree that, if the Intel PowerBook is coming in a few months, this seems the likely path for a first-generation model?

mduell · Nov 30, 2005, 08:37 PM

Anandtech has performance and power benchmarks for Yonah. It is almost as fast as a dualcore AMD64 desktop chip at the same clockrate.

I don't think Apple will need to use the low-voltage parts to keep power consumption at current (or better) levels. Thanks to the shrink to 65nm manufacturing process, Yonah may consume as much power as Dothan (90nm) at the same clockrate. Maybe we'll see the LV/ULV parts in an ultraportable, but the regular laptops should be fine with the regular parts.

I think dualcore Yonah in the PowerBooks ("Centrino Duo" or whatever their name is for it) and single core Yonah ("Centrino Solo") are both good guesses.

Kenstee · Nov 30, 2005, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by RogerR

Do people agree that, if the Intel PowerBook is coming in a few months, this seems the likely path for a first-generation model?

Definitely. But, you need to realize that Yonah is really just a short-term stop gap measure unttil the real powerhouse chips - Memron - come out in late '06. The Rev A and maybe Rev B Mactel PBs will be quite obsolete VERY fast. Faster than any other PB has ever been.

mduell · Nov 30, 2005, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by Kenstee

Definitely. But, you need to realize that Yonah is really just a short-term stop gap measure unttil the real powerhouse chips - Memron - come out in late '06. The Rev A and maybe Rev B Mactel PBs will be quite obsolete VERY fast. Faster than any other PB has ever been.

If the initial PowerBooks are dual core Yonah chips, I don't think the Merom upgrade is going to be that dramatic. Intel's claims about Merom so far mostly relate to performance per watt; they haven't said a whole lot about performance.

jamil5454 · Nov 30, 2005, 11:06 PM

A dual core Yonah will still be a huge step up from the G4 we currently have, regardless of what will come out in late '06.

brettcamp · Dec 1, 2005, 01:50 AM

Maybe this is why rumor mongers are now saying the first MacIntel portables will be iBooks -- they'll get the first, slower chips (and maybe the inevitable first generation bugs?), so as not to outclass the current Powerbook (pro) line too much -- and then the Powerbooks get the much faster second generation MacIntel chip?

phoenix78 · Dec 1, 2005, 08:18 AM

have you guys seen Sun's webpage where they have a section on their new processor? from memory it is named Niagara. it has 8 cores capable of running 4 threads giving a total of 32 threads. and it runs on similar power that a lightbulb would use.

wouldnt one of those chips in a powerbook be something?!

shabbasuraj · Dec 1, 2005, 09:02 AM

drool......
multi core PBs........
chocolate...............................

Dork. · Dec 1, 2005, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by phoenix78

have you guys seen Sun's webpage where they have a section on their new processor? from memory it is named Niagara. it has 8 cores capable of running 4 threads giving a total of 32 threads. and it runs on similar power that a lightbulb would use.

wouldnt one of those chips in a powerbook be something?!

I think it would be something awful, myself. Your average light bulb is 60W, right? IIRC, most of Apple's current laptops with Superdrives have a 60W power adaptor. This means that on "similar power that a lightbulb would use", you're powering the entire PB (including the screen), with juice left over to charge the battery.

Sun's hardware is meant to go into server rooms for high-scale number crunching, and when they say "low power", I think they really mean that you can plug a cluster of them into the wall without tripping the circuit breaker.

Kenstee · Dec 1, 2005, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

If the initial PowerBooks are dual core Yonah chips, I don't think the Merom upgrade is going to be that dramatic.

Actually, it sounds pretty dramatic to me! http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=25623

mduell · Dec 1, 2005, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Kenstee

Actually, it sounds pretty dramatic to me! http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=25623

How fast are they? Well as far as raw clock speeds, Merom will be in the low 2Ghz range ... Clock for clock, look for a 30% improvement.

Yonah will be in the low 2Ghz range too. 30% after 9 months is not dramatic.

SSharon · Dec 1, 2005, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by brettcamp

Maybe this is why rumor mongers are now saying the first MacIntel portables will be iBooks -- they'll get the first, slower chips (and maybe the inevitable first generation bugs?), so as not to outclass the current Powerbook (pro) line too much -- and then the Powerbooks get the much faster second generation MacIntel chip?

If by rumormongers you mean Steve Jobs. He clearly said that the consumer lines were getting updated first to intel chips the day he announced the change. The good news is that many people think the whole transition is 6 months ahead of schedule (probably because they gave a very conservative timeframe).

brokenjago · Dec 1, 2005, 07:27 PM

What I think is funny is that no one ever pointed out that he didn't say Apple would release products with Intel proccessors in June 2006, he said they'd be on the market by June 2006.

So they're really not ahead of schedule at all.

Kenstee · Dec 1, 2005, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

[I]30% after 9 months is not dramatic.

Unless it'sa G4 that is...

mduell · Dec 1, 2005, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by Kenstee

Originally Posted by mduell

30% after 9 months is not dramatic.

Unless it's a G4 that is...

Or a G5.

mduell · Dec 1, 2005, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by phoenix78

have you guys seen Sun's webpage where they have a section on their new processor? from memory it is named Niagara. it has 8 cores capable of running 4 threads giving a total of 32 threads. and it runs on similar power that a lightbulb would use.

wouldnt one of those chips in a powerbook be something?!

Niagara uses up to 70W... totally unsuitable for a laptop, and probably even too much for the iMac enclosure.

inkhead · Dec 1, 2005, 11:07 PM

The yohan processor will easily best any g4, and will give a g5 a run for it's money. They compared it too a DUAL CORE 64bit AMD processor and said it's NEARLY as fast.

Considering the dual core 64bit amd processor leaves the g5 in the dust... Think about that. in your powerbook.

phoenix78 · Dec 2, 2005, 12:06 AM

60-70Watt is alot. However, possibility to scale it down for use in a portable would still be an option.

For something that is already very low in power consumption for a server range of processor could be scaled down to be a high performance machine in a portable. Of course a laptop is always weaker than a desktop and there are also advanced power management schemes built into the hardware. It might be a shorter distance to travel from a 70W server to a portable than it is from a intel/amd DT to a portable.

It could be possible... however these things are always a function of the amount of money is put into such a venture.

Would have been nice though

mduell · Dec 2, 2005, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by phoenix78

60-70Watt is alot. However, possibility to scale it down for use in a portable would still be an option.

For something that is already very low in power consumption for a server range of processor could be scaled down to be a high performance machine in a portable. Of course a laptop is always weaker than a desktop and there are also advanced power management schemes built into the hardware. It might be a shorter distance to travel from a 70W server to a portable than it is from a intel/amd DT to a portable.

It could be possible... however these things are always a function of the amount of money is put into such a venture.

Would have been nice though

To get down to an acceptable laptop power draw they'd need to strip out about 6 of the cores... which puts you at dual core, just like Intel will be offering next year (with SMT coming in the latter part of next year).

toneloco28 · Dec 2, 2005, 02:16 AM

Originally Posted by SSharon

If by rumormongers you mean Steve Jobs. He clearly said that the consumer lines were getting updated first to intel chips the day he announced the change. The good news is that many people think the whole transition is 6 months ahead of schedule (probably because they gave a very conservative timeframe).

Steve Jobs never gave any indication as to what lines would make the transition in what particular order. This is a common misconception.

cardinal · Dec 2, 2005, 02:37 AM

When in January is this supposed announcement (regardless of the actual content of the announcement) going to arrive? I'm really itching to buy a 12" PB (been a PC user all my life) and was just doing some final research when I stumbled upon this board. Now, although I really want it for January, I'm thinking I might wait just a bit to see what's released. Ahhh, I don't know what to do!

brokenjago · Dec 2, 2005, 04:01 AM

12" Powerbooks will likely be discontinued at the introduction of the Intel Powerbook. If you want the 12", buy now.

brokenjago · Dec 2, 2005, 04:02 AM

12" Powerbooks will likely be discontinued at the introduction of the Intel Powerbook. If you want the 12", buy now.

TheoCryst · Dec 2, 2005, 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by brokenjago

12" Powerbooks will likely be discontinued at the introduction of the Intel Powerbook. If you want the 12", buy now.

Or even better, wait until they are discontinued, and then buy them at rock-bottom clearance prices!

Unless, of course, you don't really feel like saving money.

SEkker · Dec 2, 2005, 09:42 AM

The two 12" notebooks (iBook and PB) will get combined into a single model, probably that widescreen 13" design we've heard about (and sounds like a great upgrade to me). Apple needs to simplify its lineup over the next year to get the products out. Even the 17" PB is scheduled to be delayed months after the 15" is released.

Dork. · Dec 2, 2005, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by cardinal

When in January is this supposed announcement (regardless of the actual content of the announcement) going to arrive? I'm really itching to buy a 12" PB (been a PC user all my life) and was just doing some final research when I stumbled upon this board. Now, although I really want it for January, I'm thinking I might wait just a bit to see what's released. Ahhh, I don't know what to do!

Welcome to the 'NN!

The announcement will probably be on January 10th at 9PT/12ET.