[alphasubzero949]

^ Needs to be updated with a leopard instead.

[teney7]

Originally Posted by Oisín

Ahem...

[annoyingly pernickety language geek mode]

1) Dudar que + subjunctive

2) Mataré = I will kill.

So unless you plan on killing Tiger yourself, I'd suggest either matará or (better) vaya a matar. Unless of course you meant to write matare, in which case I salute you for use of the future subjunctive tense, which not even the Spanish would attempt to use

[/annoyingly pernickety language geek mode]

But no, yo también dudo que Vista vaya a matar el Tigre—o el Leopardo, si vamos a eso...

Me di cuenta de mi error. Lo siento.

[Nai no Kami]

Originally Posted by Oisín

Ahem...

[annoyingly pernickety language geek mode]

1) Dudar que + subjunctive

2) Mataré = I will kill.

So unless you plan on killing Tiger yourself, I'd suggest either matará or (better) vaya a matar. Unless of course you meant to write matare, in which case I salute you for use of the future subjunctive tense, which not even the Spanish would attempt to use

[/annoyingly pernickety language geek mode]

But no, yo también dudo que Vista vaya a matar el Tigre—o el Leopardo, si vamos a eso...

Mi querido amigo: En primer lugar, en español debe utilizarse para el caso citado la contracción "al" (con lo que se obtiene "matar al tigre" o "matar al leopardo". En segundo lugar, Tigre es una marca, con lo que no debería ir traducido. Finalmente, la expresión "si vamos a eso", aunque correcta, no es del todo corriente dicha con ese sentido (más saludable hubiese sido escribir "volviendo al tema", por ejemplo).

My annoying speech is just because -some time ago- you corrected me about the usage of "either/or". We are now even. On the other hand, there is always someone more annoying than you.

[vigilantx]

Originally Posted by james9490

Since you guys don't really listen to the truth coming from outside your Mac fanaticism sandbox, here is the article MacNN site posted. You guys are in for steep uphill battle. Be ready to jump ship before it's too late.

--------------
Column: Apple must take Vista seriously

The "real power" of the Windows platform has always been tied to the support from the developer community, explains Rob Enderle of TechNewsWorld. And this year, developers are "more excited than I have seen in years" about Windows Visa, Microsoft's next-generation operating system. Enderle says for Apple to hold its ground, it must take Vista seriously. "Windows Vista is the biggest release for Microsoft since Windows 95. With that release, Apple was tested -- and they failed miserably. I was at Dataquest at the time and not only did I warn Apple to take 95 more seriously, I also accurately forecast the massive decline that would happen to them if they didn't do just that." Apple will be positioning its Intel-compatible Mac OS X against Vista and "they have about 12 months to prepare for the threat," the article states. "Just like the last time, they will largely leverage hardware this time, and, as before, they will be up against companies with resources that eclipse their own."
--------------

Now, that's not even something I wrote. It's an expert at TechNewsWorld, one of the foremost authorities in the IT industry. Vista is going to be HUGE, and Apple is going to have a huge blow. Jump ship before it's too late.

James, as you can obviously see, we aren't afraid of Vista killing us. Sure, you may find our behavior offensive, but what do you expect to happen when you come onto our home turf, and make constant insulting remarks about something we enjoy, then you go and complain about how we have offended you.

I find it amusing how you continue to act as if you are on a moral high ground, with your constant postings about things like this, and grandmothers with mouses, and creative zens with radios, and etc.

Why do you feel the need to act out like this? Did your family not show you any affection? Is that why you act out against communities? Do you REALLY expect us to say "oh James, you are so right, let us flee from this company, and follow you to the promised land!"? Do you James. Are you that naive? I am not going to say I am offended by you. Because you are clearly trying to irritate us, and get us to act out.

Now, lets address everything you've ever posted on that I've personally read. You have said that Vista is going to kill Tiger. Microsoft says that this is going to be the biggest release of Windows since Windows 95. But every single release of Windows has been the biggest, and most powerful version since Windows 95, from 98, to 2000, to XP. This analyst has gone on, and on about how Apple screwed up when Windows 95 came out, and he was right. But Apple is under completely different management now. Apple is now very active as well as reactive to current trends in the tech industry, more so now, then it has ever been in the past. If you TRULY think that Apple doesn't take Vista seriously, then you are showing your ignorance as well. But we have nothing to fear. I have actually worked on numerous builds of Vista (formally Longhorn), and I can say that there isn't really anything in there that isn't all ready in Tiger. The composited desktop thing was accomplished very nicely, but things are definitly full from Gold Master ready. Features such as the fully composited desktop have been in the Mac OS since 2001, and we were able to have it without 512 MB video cards, in 2002, we were given Quartz Extreme which gave us hardware accellerated composited desktop, which allows for all users to get the same consistent user experience from one system to another very nicely. The finder has evolved very nicely as well as the brushed metal interface, into something very simple and elegant. The columns view is far surerior to anything on Windows, because it's quick, and easy to understand. The ability to search documents based on content, and meta data is in Tiger, and will be in Vista, in an implementation that flatters Spotlight greatly. The sidebar is a bit of a mess, but it is still very much in the early stages of it's existence.

The key thing here though, is that we have nothing to fear. Everything Vista has, the Mac has had for years.

If you want us to drop ship, give us a reason why we should leave a company that is leading the new wave of digital media, and whos growth is 4 or 5 times that of the industry average. Tell us why we should drop the innovator, for the follower. Tell us why we should trust our security to a company who claimed to increase security in XP, only to get a HUGE security breach through bad implementation of Universal Plug and Play, that allowed anyone on your Cable line have full access to all your accessories, and etc, and left doors open to spyware, and gave special treatment to a spyware company merely because they were considering acquiring them. Tell me why?

Personally, I find your behavior offensive. I don't like Microsoft's CEO, Steve Ballmer. He all ways appears to be incredibly unstable. He actually threw a chair at someone because the guy was moving on to bigger and better things screaming "I'm going to f***ing bury that guy, I have done it before, and I will do it again. I'm going to f***ing kill Google." But hey, if you like endorsing a man whos rage is out of hand that he threw a chair at someone, then thats fine.

Personally, as for me, and my posse, we are staying where we are. If you think we should jump ship to the arms of an unstable man, then fine. Personally, I don't like viruses, or spyware. I also don't like corporations, and people in charge of companies acting without any class like Ballmer. Frankly, I don't think you have any class yourself.

But of course, you will play the victim.

[alphasubzero949]

^ pwn3d

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by rozwado1

You can do that?

Supposedly, the controls were actually designed so that you could.

[andreas_g4]

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Admit it,
I’d wager folks are loving all this attention from what could be a genuine PC-troll. Useless ‘mine vs. yours’ platform warrior nonsense hasn’t been actively given a crap about by anyone rational since around mid-1999. Admit it, having an actual PC troll around who actually gives a damn enough to make useless lists of why he likes Windows better than OSX (rather than the usual endless wanking in the opposite direction) is kind of a little throwback to the good ol’ days when PC trolls suffering under Windows 98 were thick as flies on Mac message boards.

Let’s just thank the james persona for the little bit of nostalgia he provides.

[olePigeon]

Hey Crash! Can your MAC format a floppy while you do other things? Windows 95 can! MACs suck!

[historylme]

Originally Posted by Nai no Kami

Mi querido amigo: En primer lugar, en Español se debe utilizarse para el caso citado la contracción "al" (con lo que se obtiene "matar al tigre" o "matar al leopardo". En segundo lugar, Tigre es una marca, con lo que no debería de aver sido, una traducion. Finalmente, la expresión "si vamos a eso", aunque correcta, no es del todo corriente, dicha con ese sentido (más saludable hubiese sido escribir "volviendo al tema", por ejemplo).

My annoying speech is just because -some time ago- you corrected me about the usage of "either/or". We are now even. On the other hand, there is always someone more annoying than you.

edit: How's that for being annoying. I am horrible at grammar.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Nai no Kami

Mi querido amigo: En primer lugar, en español debe utilizarse para el caso citado la contracción "al" (con lo que se obtiene "matar al tigre" o "matar al leopardo". En segundo lugar, Tigre es una marca, con lo que no debería ir traducido. Finalmente, la expresión "si vamos a eso", aunque correcta, no es del todo corriente dicha con ese sentido (más saludable hubiese sido escribir "volviendo al tema", por ejemplo).

En primer lugar, mi español ya no es muy bien. Era mucho mejor cuando no hacía X años que no lo uso, pero ya se ha 'ido a los perros', ¡y nunca he dicho nada de otro!

En segundo lugar, no estaba seguro si debía usar el verbo 'matar' con un complemento directo o indirecto; hice una busca de Google (¿Googleé?), y aparecía que lo más normal era el complemento directo. No estoy seguro de qué he escrito en esta busca Google, que ahora si Googleo ('?' otra vez), encuentro mucho más ejemplos del complemento indirecto. Hm. Qué raro.

Mi dudo era si un animal es bastante 'humano' que se convierta en un complemento indirecto, aún si el verbo no necesita un complemento indirecto – y también si el verbo 'matar' necesita un objeto indirecto en todas situaciones.

(Sorry 'bout that. I'm too tired to butcher your language properly, it'll have to remain a half-assed attempt this time...)

My annoying speech is just because -some time ago- you corrected me about the usage of "either/or". We are now even. On the other hand, there is always someone more annoying than you.

I did? Uhh... okay, if you say so. I probably did, I won't dispute that. I just have no recollection of it... Was it a long time ago?

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by history1me

edit: How's that for being annoying. I am horrible at grammar.

I would say it falls more into the “Interesting...” category than the “Annoying.” category. But that's just me. Perhaps it looks different when you're not actually looking out from within the second of those two categories

[rambo47]

I originally believed James was really the Star Wars Kid, but I have since learned this is him:

[JoshuaZ]

Ahhh.... this thread is like fine wine. It gets better with age.

[budster101]

It's more like a fine fart... soon all will enjoy it's aroma.

[tlhash]

I'm not sure how many years experience you have on BOTH platforms, but here's one guys opinion. My company is six years old, and is in business for 1 reason....... to make money. When I started, there were two PCs and two Macs. Today it's no PCs and five Macs. End of story.

[kangadru]

I'm a programmer, I write Windows code by day, and have used and written code for every major Windows revision, and that now includes Vista (in it's current form, expect it to change several times before release).

Enderle is correct, Vista does have some things that are excellent Tiger competitor features, but by then Leopard should be shipping or very close to it, but these features don't resolve fundamental flaws in Windows that will continue to be issues. Windows security is getting better, but it still isn't Unix, which is as secure as the user makes it. Further, Vista as it stands offers few compelling reasons to move from Windows XP, and in point of fact, many people an businesses remain on Windows 2000 for the same reasons.

For the record, I do my work on a pair of Mac's, one PowerBook G4, and one PowerMac G5, in addition to a generic Windows box, and I can categorically state that I won't go back from OS X, and more importantly, I'd bet that I'm not alone.

The problem is that Vista may impact Leopard upgrades during the first 3 monthsof it's release, but since Apple is, first and foremost a hardware company that has never made the bulk of it's revenue on OS upgrades, I don't think that the threat is quite what Mr. Enderle proposes.

At the same time, I can state that Apple's moves between now and Christmas of 06, will be the stuff that determines the outcome. At this point, Vista will be more or less what is specced and publicly discussed. Apple on the other hand has 12-18 months to get the x86 boxes out the door and hit the ground running with some groundbreaking hardware that will render the Vista question irrelevant. You won't be buying Mac's to run Vista, and you won't be upgrading to Vista on your AMD Sempron Laptop.

[olePigeon]

This is a flame thread. Stop making sense!

[Randman]

I'm shocked that this thread is still alive. Oh well, better that James post here rather than venture out in the slim chances that he may procreate.

[m a d r a]

don't you think you're all being a wee bit unfair? - after all, it's only the small matter of its being unbelievably shit that's stopping windows from being a truly great operating system

Originally Posted by vigilantx

...I don't like Microsoft's CEO, Steve Ballmer. He all ways appears to be incredibly unstable. He actually threw a chair at someone because the guy was moving on to bigger and better things screaming "I'm going to f***ing bury that guy, I have done it before, and I will do it again. I'm going to f***ing kill Google." ...

again the negativity - instead of marvelling at the fact that a sweaty dancing baboon can rise to become CEO of one of the world's major corporations, you draw attention to a momentary lapse back into simian behaviour patterns.

[besson3c]

This thread made MacNN"s front page....

I'm jealous. My threads never do.


Maybe I need to start a thread about how awesome MacNN is?

[brokenjago]

No, you need to start a thread as a hilarious (and for that reason, loveable) troll who is using a proxy to hide his/her identity and is probably tooki or one of the other site admins.

Oh, and don't forget to be completely 100% illogical. And Bash anything Apple, no matter what it is.

[booboo]

I'm using Windows for an extended period for the 2nd time in my life. I've used Mac's almost exclusively since 1990 . . .

I was burgled a couple of weeks ago and my Mac (the most upgraded G4 Digital Audio in the world) amongst other items, was stolen. I've just caved in and ordered a G5 2.0GHz DP, even though I wanted to wait for the next revision, because life without a Mac is just no fun.

Meanwhile, I finally got the incentive to get my PC working. What a nightmare!

Apart from the installation hell - XP not natively supporting SATA boot drives requiring me to figure out enough DOS to copy selected drivers from a CD to a floppy - yes a floppy - pressing F6 at the correct point in the installation to tell XP to load these drivers and see the SATA drives. And that was just the begininig.

After a week in XP, from a Mac user's perspective, I'd say that XP is not even where OS9 was in terms of usability, and only about two-thirds the way toward OSX in stability. Better than Windows 98, for sure, but plugging in my Canon A40 digital camera caused a reboot, for example. One of several.

Unless Vista seriously changes the way Windows allows app's - sorry 'programs' - to install themselves without requiring user authentication, and unless Vista removes the hooks that allow Explorer and Outlook to delve deep into the OS, the vulnerabilities - particularly from viruses - will remain, and OSX will not lose market share but will in fact become the most hacked OS on the planet - as PC users find ways of running OSX on their hardware - as they will. Ultimately not the worst thing for Apple.

XP (on my Athlon 3000XP) is snappier than OSX, but the multi-tasking sucks, the Activation and registration is an affront to personal liberty and really gets in the way of data rescue, plus the mess that is Tiger's current interface clashes: brushed vs Aqua vs 'pro' vs 'unified', fades into insignificance when compared with the travesty that is the XP UI and its inconsistencies. I tried a few Style XP and Windowblinds themes, which despite inconsistencies did improve things visually, but at the expense of snappiness - so much so that I've reverted to XP's standard theme, in Silver, and just changed the display fonts to less disturbing ones.

The constant nannying of the OS, the hi-jacking of screen-estate and control of the UI by installers, the illogical organising of functions within the OS, the visual intrusion that is XP's default (blue) theme, and to a lesser though still unacceptable degree, Silver too continues to shock me. To think the richest man in the world, and his empire, settled for this . . .

Certainly, there are lots more shareware and freeware app's for Windows, though most of them are absolute guff in terms of usability and interface. In reality, there are only about 3 Windows app's I'd really like to see on the Mac: a decent audio mastering app - not the crapola that is Peak - and some RealVideo and WMV stream capture app's (sorry, 'program's.

P.S. Life without Expose is hell! I know there are Windowes knock-off's but I haven't got round to finding one yet.

Email from Apple: Order dispatched, The expected delivery time for your order is 2 - 3 days.

I'm counting the seconds . . .

[JackNN]

The "buzz" created by Vista may at worst delay a few switchers, and give PC users the illusion that Windows has caught up to the Mac. But it's still just a slightly less ugly version of XP, and the Mac has the advantage of being a totally new, "exciting" environment for those accustomed to Windows.

[hotani]

Originally Posted by james9490

Since you guys don't really listen to the truth coming from outside your Mac fanaticism sandbox, here is the article MacNN site posted. You guys are in for steep uphill battle. Be ready to jump ship before it's too late.

OMG!!!111!! You mean Windows will get a majority of the market share and Apple will only have a percentage in the single digits?? Oh, wait....

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by vigilantx

James, as you can obviously see, we aren't afraid of Vista killing us. Sure, you may find our behavior offensive, but what do you expect to happen when you come onto our home turf, and make constant insulting remarks about something we enjoy, then you go and complain about how we have offended you.

What did he do that was insulting about MacOS? Post a link to a MacNN article that Apple needs to be concerned about Vista?

[SirCastor]

Originally Posted by The Godfather

Okay. Good, this is good. Get your feelings out.


Kind of a fun picture

[osxrules]

I hear a lot of this talk around and mostly from Microsoft marketing people. But I never ever hear why Vista is supposed to be so good. I mean, what features are really going to make life so much better?

For example. Tiger announced things like Dashboard, Expose, Spotlight, Automator and so on. I haven't heard one single thing about Longhorn that makes me think it has anything new or innovative to offer, leading to the only conclusion that it either doesn't or the stuff that is innovative isn't going to mean much to people.

So c'mon people, less of the 'beware of Vista.' and more of the 'beware of Vista because...' and give sufficient reasons for your claim. Impress us with facts instead of annoying us with petty rhetoric.

[Tesseract]

Originally Posted by osxrules

I hear a lot of this talk around and mostly from Microsoft marketing people. But I never ever hear why Vista is supposed to be so good. I mean, what features are really going to make life so much better?

For example. Tiger announced things like Dashboard, Expose, Spotlight, Automator and so on. I haven't heard one single thing about Longhorn that makes me think it has anything new or innovative to offer, leading to the only conclusion that it either doesn't or the stuff that is innovative isn't going to mean much to people.

So c'mon people, less of the 'beware of Vista.' and more of the 'beware of Vista because...' and give sufficient reasons for your claim. Impress us with facts instead of annoying us with petty rhetoric.

Vista has transparent title bars!
Vista has shiny glass buttons!
Vista has brushed metal!
Vista has widgets!
Vista has a Dock!
Vista has a Web browser with tabs and an RSS reader!

[besson3c]

- Vista will have a new privilege model that is closer to OS X's (i.e. to use the machine properly you don't need an account that provides software with unfettered access to the system). This mean it will have far better security

- Vista will have a new display layer, moving it closer to Quartz

- Vista will have a new messaging system. I don't know much about it, but I'd like to see something like Growl in the next OS X release.

- Vista will have Spotlight-like search functionality, although a different implementation.

- At one point, Vista was supposed to be a rewrite. I'm not sure if this is still the case, or whether it is still an evolution over the previous OS, but it may or may not require some app tweaking to work (particularly with the new privilege model), I don't know... However, it sounds like an important transition for MS, and perhaps a clean break.


Basically, I think Vista will mark the foundation for a modern OS that Windows definitely is not today. It won't offer a whole lot that we don't already have, but it should serve as a solid starting place for MS - an important milestone.

[Cless]

Vista is not a re-write. It's based on the Windows Server 2003 codebase.

[Randman]

[jhammer]

Here's an interesting article from WSJ that you PC guys should think about.

http://online.wsj.com/article/0%2C%2CSB112743680328349448%2C00.html?mod=MKTW&ru= MKTW

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by jhammer

Here's an interesting article from WSJ that you PC guys should think about.

http://online.wsj.com/article/0%2C%2CSB112743680328349448%2C00.html?mod=MKTW&ru= MKTW

You have to be logged in to be able to read articles like this one. What was the gist of it?

I've used PCs forever because they were what we had at work. I've also earned a BS in computer science, with particular attention to operating systems. I became interested in Linux through curiosity, and found the more developed distributions to be easier to use and better structured than Windows. Moving into OS X gave me an even better experience: Macs are SUPPOSED TO BE easy to use, and Apple has made them that way on purpose.

As many have pointed out, by the time Vista comes out, Lepoard will be almost on the shelves, and Vista will kill absolutely nothing. End of issue.

[Chris O'Brien]

Originally Posted by ghporter

You have to be logged in to be able to read articles like this one. What was the gist of it?

The link off /. worked fine for me: http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1...ys_us_page_one

[Chris O'Brien]

Heh. Database errors are fun.

[ghporter]

Black Book, thanks for the better (working) link.

It looks like Microsoft have finally learned something about software engineering. It's pretty damn late in the game for them to do so, but maybe Vista won't be quite so lame as their track record indicates.

Either way, they're still going to come in after Lepoard; Jobs would be a fool to release Lepoard before Vista was shipping-though it could be done by shipping Lepoard with the same kind of "sell this before midnight on the appointed date and ninjas will come and rip out your toenails" restrictions, based on the day AFTER Vista is supposed to be publicly available. Tee hee...

[teney7]

After reading that, I have even more respect for OS X and Tiger

[randomearthling]

See, that's always been the problem with Mac-dudes. You're constantly at the disadvantage of having to explain why Mac is so much better than MS. MS-dudes don't have to do that, because irrespective of whether MS have been using Mac as innovation for years (& let's face it, we all know they have!), the fact is that the world chose MS.
No matter how much better Mac may be, they've lost the battle. Says who? Says the majority of the worlds computer user population. They may be stupid, but the consumer still has the final say.

An extremely simplistic view, but an inarguable one.

End of story.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by strong nad

See, that's always been the problem with Mac-dudes. You're constantly at the disadvantage of having to explain why Mac is so much better than MS. MS-dudes don't have to do that, because irrespective of whether MS have been using Mac as innovation for years (& let's face it, we all know they have!), the fact is that the world chose MS.
No matter how much better Mac may be, they've lost the battle. Says who? Says the majority of the worlds computer user population. They may be stupid, but the consumer still has the final say.

An extremely simplistic view, but an inarguable one.

End of story.

Thanks for reviving a 6 month old thread,
just to add nothing of value!!!

From the Forum Rules:

Originally Posted by forum rules

Don't resurrect ancient threads. If your search finds a relevant thread that doesn't answer your question, but that's more than about 6 months old, the information in it is probably partly outdated. Instead, post a new thread, but include a link to the old thread as a reference. This shows people that you did your homework.

[analogika]

No - it's not over by a long shot.

Because Microsoft themselves are going to have very real problem explaining to their own existing customers why Vista is better than what they have now.

Microsoft is in the process of torpedoing their own base.

Meanwhile, in the NINE MONTHS SINCE THIS THREAD COULD LAST BE CONSIDERED "ALIVE", we've seen quite a few customers deciding that ANY alternative is better than the Microsoft OS they'd been using to date.

[eltrut]

Originally Posted by strong nad

An extremely simplistic view, but an inarguable one.

End of story.

Awesome

[Salty]

Why is this post alive again!? Can we get a lock?

[shunt]

No, no lock.

He's right, I'm convinced...there I said it. I've been selfish and idealistic, and I apologize...for everything.

I'm sorry, I mean, really sorry.

Now, it's time to follow my fellow Winpeeps down the road to Utopia.

Come with us, won't you?

[ink]

Why is every release of Windows the "best thing since Windows 95"?

[eltrut]

Originally Posted by ink

Why is every release of Windows the "best thing since Windows 95"?

That's a spelling error. Should be the pest since Win 95.

[production_coordinator]

Vista is going to kick the crap out of Jaguar, Panther, Tiger, Leopard

[production_coordinator]

Originally Posted by ink

Why is every release of Windows the "best thing since Windows 95"?

Obviously you didn't use Windows 3.1

[goMac]

Originally Posted by strong nad

See, that's always been the problem with Mac-dudes. You're constantly at the disadvantage of having to explain why Mac is so much better than MS. MS-dudes don't have to do that, because irrespective of whether MS have been using Mac as innovation for years (& let's face it, we all know they have!), the fact is that the world chose MS.
No matter how much better Mac may be, they've lost the battle. Says who? Says the majority of the worlds computer user population. They may be stupid, but the consumer still has the final say.

An extremely simplistic view, but an inarguable one.

End of story.

Actually I blame Scully for this. When the Mac was introduced Jobs wanted to sell it for $2000 to gain market share, while Scully wanted to increase the profit margin and sell it for $2500. Scully won and ever since Apple has favored large profit margins over market share.

If anything Scully sacrificed a mass marketshare for Apple. Not that it's worked out badly, just differently. But I wouldn't say it was a consumer choice that led to this.

[andreas_g4]

Originally Posted by production_coordinator

Vista is going to kick the crap out of Jaguar, Panther, Tiger, Leopard