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Todd Madson · Apr 7, 2006, 05:42 PM

This is really what it's all about: life isn't fair; he had better learn that early. I did too.

It stinks but money makes the world go 'round.

FireWire · Apr 7, 2006, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by volcano

You think the policy is going to change? You're funny.

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

I just had an interesting conversation with a friend who also was upset about this and she actually spoke to Apple and apparently Apple has made some changes that WILL allow ALL students to qualify for an Apple STUDENT discount.

But it's not with your attitude that things will change.

Originally Posted by Peter

Guys its just Cody rooting for more attention. Move along everyone... :/
I find it quite amazing you're crying and threatening to sue over somthing Apple does thats so small. $100 and you sue. RIdiculous.

That's something I've noticed numerous times on the board here. One person goes slightly "too far" and suddenly, all you see is that person's dubious claim or argument, ignoring the whole matter. Again, this has nothing to do with Cody, it concerns every high-school students. I don't think one can go very far with a lawsuit over this matter. It's only a question of "ethics". They have the right to give the rebate to whoever they want, but still, we can admit it's unfair and hope that this changes. But for that, we must unite and not act selfishly. Look, I'm currently doing my second bachelor and certainly am in a greater financial burden than high-school students, but I still think they should get a rebate.

Originally Posted by ChuckIt

No. Actually, race is one of the few categories that you can't generally use to discriminate (legally, that is). What are you trying to say here?

That was precisely my point. My sentence was ironic. Because if Wal-Mart really did what I said in my example, there would be a big uproar, discrimination lawsuit, but because they are "only" discriminating against people of a certain age, or education level, they can get away easily.

Originally Posted by Todd Madson

This is really what it's all about: life isn't fair; he had better learn that early. I did too.

Great philosophy. Congratulations!!! Wow!!

"Sorry son, we can't change anything" Tell that to Martin Luther King or other people that "changed things".

[Edit] Wow! 5 pages and almost nobody agreed that Apple could have done things better... Hopeless...

Chuckit · Apr 7, 2006, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by FireWire

That was precisely my point. My sentence was ironic. Because if Wal-Mart really did what I said in my example, there would be a big uproard, discrimination lawsuit, but because they are "only" discriminating against people of a certain age, or education level, they can get away easily.

So you're saying we should not discriminate (acknowledge that people are different) at all? Nobody should get discounts?

volcano · Apr 7, 2006, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by FireWire

It's only a question of "ethics". They have the right to give the rebate to whoever they want, but still, we can admit it's unfair and hope that this changes.

This is not a question of ethics. An education discount that a company offers without obligation has nothing to do with ethics.

This is simply about the multifaceted family of discounts that we have in our society. Regardless of who "should" receive them and who "should not," these companies offer these discounts freely, when they don't have to offer any type of discount in the first place. Because of this, they have every right to designate boundaries and restrictions.

theyoda3 · Apr 7, 2006, 06:15 PM

What computer companies do offer discounts to students younger than college students? I'm not sure about this, but I don't think any do unless the school has set something up. Also, in some states, public school is required by law. College is a choice and the discount could reflect Apple's encouragement of continuing education. It would be nice to have discounts for other students, but there are too many complications. We are lucky to have such a nice student discount. It's a pain in the ass just to figure out how to get a student discount from PC companies.

Amorya · Apr 7, 2006, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by FireWire

Ah, come on! It's an understood fact that by "senior", it's in fact senior citizen. A student, by contrast, is a student! No matter what age he is or the the level he has reached. English is not my native language and I know that. Please.

Well, it depends on the country. Here, it's commonly defined that a student is a member of the National Union of Students... which a 13 year old could not join. But that's just semantics!

Originally Posted by volcano

AGAIN: I am not jealous, threatened, belittled, enraged, or irate by the possibility of a high school or middle school student receiving the same discount as I do. Regardless, I do know for a fact that my financial burden is far greater than theirs.

Well said.

The discount doesn't exist as a reward for working hard. It exists because students (the over-18 higher education type) have hardly any money, a very limited income, and Apple wants to get them hooked on their own products so they'll keep buying in the future.

Amorya

Cody Dawg · Apr 7, 2006, 09:17 PM

I can't believe this thread is still going.

But, Apple is shooting itself in the foot, that's all.

There is a HUGE market for them to just reach out and grab. Think about it.

If they offer the average student a "student discount" but the discount must be used in a local Apple Store then they bring so much more traffic to their stores, you see? A lot of people don't just walk in and buy just a computer. They buy the computer, a bag, some software, other things. They still earn a profit with the student discount thrown in, you see? And then they'd earn some with the extras that the kid buys.

And as far as whether or not their parents pay for it, who cares? It gets paid for!

There is a HUGE SECTOR that Apple is just ignoring.

Salty · Apr 7, 2006, 09:21 PM

Cody in all fairness. This is the COLLEGE student discount.

Everyone at some point in their life has a kid in school. If they gave families discounts just because a kid is in Jr. High, then they'd lose a lot of money.

The reason companies give college students discounts is because it allows them to get the software and tools they need for their courses. Your son needs none of these for his school work. Your son is not paying several thousand dollar a year to go to school unless you're sending him to private school.

goMac · Apr 7, 2006, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

I can't believe this thread is still going.

But, Apple is shooting itself in the foot, that's all.

There is a HUGE market for them to just reach out and grab. Think about it.

If they offer the average student a "student discount" but the discount must be used in a local Apple Store then they bring so much more traffic to their stores, you see? A lot of people don't just walk in and buy just a computer. They buy the computer, a bag, some software, other things. They still earn a profit with the student discount thrown in, you see? And then they'd earn some with the extras that the kid buys.

And as far as whether or not their parents pay for it, who cares? It gets paid for!

There is a HUGE SECTOR that Apple is just ignoring.

Apple is only offering the college discount because without it a college student might not by a computer at all. High school students do not have this problem, and if they do, Apple donates to programs that give computers to families in need.

A child cannot legally own a computer before 18. There is nothing preventing the kid from buying the computer with the parents paying, and then the parents taking and using the computer. There is nothing preventing the parents from hauling a kid into the store to get a discount on the computer.

Macs are simply required in some studies in college. This is not true for high school. There is nothing preventing your son from getting a Dell which is cheaper and more in his price range. Your son is not required to get a Mac, unlike some college programs that do require you to get a Mac.

Mastrap · Apr 7, 2006, 10:16 PM

So your kid goes to high school and the parent buys a Mac at an edu discount. Given the amount of kids in school at any given time that really makes sense as a business model for Apple. Really.

The wheel is spinning, the hamster is dead.

timmerk · Apr 8, 2006, 04:42 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

So because he works hard, he should get a discount? I bet factory workers have it harder. Should they get an even bigger discount?

I think the discount is a promotional gimmick, not a basic human right.

I fully agree with you here. I'm not understanding why being a student entitles you to discounts. I'm a student, and I don't expect discounts wherever I go.

The Godfather · Apr 8, 2006, 08:05 AM

If Cody's lawsuit has any effect, it would be the abolition of Apple's College Discount program.

Mastrap · Apr 8, 2006, 08:10 AM

There will be no lawsuit. Cody is blowing hot air.

Cody Dawg · Apr 8, 2006, 08:25 AM

Mastrap is right.

I wouldn't REALLY want to sue Apple.

I love Apple.

goMac said

Apple is only offering the college discount because without it a college student might not by a computer at all. High school students do not have this problem, and if they do, Apple donates to programs that give computers to families in need.

Stupid Quote of the Day™.

What a STOOOOPID thing to say.

Even Scottheking said...IF YOU WANT CHEAP...GET A DELL.

Every college student can afford a DELL.

Amorya · Apr 8, 2006, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Every college student can afford a DELL.

I think that's the stupid quote of the day.

I'm lucky - I could afford a Mac. But others are not so lucky. I have a friend who had £200 to last her 3 months last term, after rent went out. She regularly had to choose between beer or food that evening. (You may say it's an obvious choice, but I imagine her situation would have been even harder without the beer!) How the hell can you say she can afford a Dell? Maybe if she didn't eat for a year!

When an income of £4000 (max annual loan) has to cover rent, fees and living costs for a year, you can't just assume college students can afford anything! Unless they have rich/generous parents, that is the max income. A bank account might give an extra £1500 overdraft, but that's still barely enough to survive on.

All you tossers who think being a student is living the life of luxury, I suggest getting a clue. Yes, we chose to do this... I'm not comparing studying to forced labour or anything... but there is a hell of a lot we have to put up with.

Amorya

Cody Dawg · Apr 8, 2006, 10:44 AM

What are you talking about?

He was talking about how without a discount not every college student could afford an APPLE COMPUTER. Apple computers are twice as much as Dell computers...THAT IS MY POINT.

So...*^* IF *^* a student HAS to buy a computer then they can more easily afford a DELL...not an Apple computer.

For someone from England where ENGLISH is the language it sure is hard for you to understand things.

volcano · Apr 8, 2006, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

For someone from England where ENGLISH is the language it sure is hard for you to understand things.

That's quite unnecessary.

In general, an Apple will cost you a few more dollars in comparison to a run-of-the-mill, cheaply built Dell. But if you upgrade the hardware to match the components found in Macs, you would find the prices to be very similar - even with all the discounts.

Cody Dawg · Apr 8, 2006, 11:01 AM

Why would a "poor" college student "upgrade?"

jamil5454 · Apr 8, 2006, 11:07 AM

If I really wanted a Mac, and I was a poor college student, I'm sure I could find some way of affording one. But not every poor college student wants a Mac that bad.

Cody Dawg · Apr 8, 2006, 11:11 AM

Jamil's right.

When you're a poor college student you'll use what you're able to. In my case, I used the computer lab or went to the library for what I needed.

jamil5454 · Apr 8, 2006, 11:26 AM

Also, Apple's decision to give discounts to college students is purely a business one. Have you noticed that Apple's market share may be ~5%, but amongst college groups it's more like %50? Apple knows that college students have a hard time affording computers, and so they give just enough of a discount so a college student will buy their computer over a Dell or HP. High school students, on the other hand, either use the family computer, or their parents buy them one. Yes, I'm sure you can find exceptions, but this is pretty much the logic Apple uses.

I'm not saying, nor do I care, what's right or what's wrong, because frankly, "right" and "wrong" hardly matter in the business world.

Oh, and Firewire, to answer your question: yes, I am opposed to everyone receiving a discount, because then it wouldn't be a discount. Also, Apple is company, but it made of people just like you and me, and they need money too. Thankfully the competition we have from other PC vendors keeps prices under control, so they're never going to keep getting worse and worse.

I don't really want to be given things, I kind of want to go out and earn them. I'm young and excited about life

Cody Dawg · Apr 8, 2006, 11:34 AM

That's a cool post.

For the record, my son said the +/- $200 is of no importance to him. He actually said, "College kids are on their own and they should get the discount. I'm not."

He wouldn't want the discount either - and he's 13.

Instead we'll buy from an online source where we'll pay full price and save on the sales tax and that way everyone will be happy: Apple who didn't have to give a punk 13-year old kid a lowly $200 discount...and my son who is too proud to ask for a discount...and me who feels good knowing that my son saved $140 in sales tax.

euchomai · Apr 8, 2006, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

That's a cool post.

For the record, my son said the +/- $200 is of no importance to him. He actually said, "College kids are on their own and they should get the discount. I'm not."

He wouldn't want the discount either - and he's 13.

Instead we'll buy from an online source where we'll pay full price and save on the sales tax and that way everyone will be happy: Apple who didn't have to give a punk 13-year old kid a lowly $200 discount...and my son who is too proud to ask for a discount...and me who feels good knowing that my son saved $140 in sales tax.

It didn't sound like you kid was too proud, it sounds like he actually understood the point that you still seem to not understand. The discount isn't for him.

Cody Dawg · Apr 8, 2006, 11:48 AM

No, he's too proud.

See, he IS a student at a local college. He is taking mathematics at the local college as part of a program for kids that are gifted mathematically. Under that scenario he DOES qualify.

But, as a normal middle school kid, or a high school kid, he does not qualify for a student discount even though he's a student.

Yes, they'll extend him the student discount, but he's too proud to use it. That is my point.

volcano · Apr 8, 2006, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

No, he's too proud.

See, he IS a student at a local college. He is taking mathematics at the local college as part of a program for kids that are gifted mathematically. Under that scenario he DOES qualify.

Then he does qualify for the discount. I don't understand why you reacted so irrationally and harshly over the subject - if he's qualified in the first place.

volcano · Apr 8, 2006, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Seriously, I found out today that the regular student doesn't qualify for an Apple educational discount.

Is that screwed up or what?

Yes, if you are an elementary, middle school, or high school student, you don't get a student discount.

My son wanted to use some of the money he's earned buy a 12-inch Powerbook and he called them and wanted to buy one and they said, "No. You don't qualify because you're not in college."

We've been Apple customers for years and years but because of this I am seriously thinking of dropping Apple altogether as a result.

It is just plain wrong.

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Yes, they'll extend him the student discount, but he's too proud to use it. That is my point.

Keep telling yourself that.

Stradlater · Apr 8, 2006, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

For the record, my son said the +/- $200 is of no importance to him. He actually said, "College kids are on their own and they should get the discount. I'm not."

euchomai seemed to have it right. I don't care how busy or responsible high school students are; they're still dependents and don't have to use their money on things like tuition, room, board, etc. etc. 13 year olds don't have to pay off loans. College kids are indeed more on their own and are indeed more deserving of the discount, not because of their being busy or responsible, but because of their independence.

SeSawaya · Apr 8, 2006, 12:20 PM

Wish I would've had a computer in high school OR college. Maybe I can get discounts that's retrograde!

euchomai · Apr 8, 2006, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by SeSawaya

Wish I would've had a computer in high school OR college. Maybe I can get discounts that's retrograde!

Yeah, me too. I had to use my parent's computer, talk about invasion of my privacy! They didn't even buy me my own.

gerardwaysgirl13 · Apr 8, 2006, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by TheMosco

WPI ( my college ):

Tuition and Fees $31,390
My portion of rent 3,900
My portion of bills 1,200
Books 500 (if i buy used and get books from friends)
Fraternity Dues 930
Meal Plan at Fraternity 2200 (lunch + dinner + snacks catered food service)
Social Activities $$$$$

and next year I am going to london for a term which is about 7000 on top of the tuition.

Cry me a river...

Yeah, I'm sure the close to $1000 you spend on a fraternity is ENTIRELY NESSECARY. Oh, yeah, and the $$$$$ for 'Social Activities', you really need that, too, if you're so strapped for cash.

And I'm going to be going to college in two years! If I save the money now, it's going right into my college savings fund! I work just as hard as you do every day. No, scratch that, I work harder, and if Apple's giving college students a discount, I deserve one every bit as much as any other college student does.

Cody Dawg · Apr 8, 2006, 12:57 PM

I used a word processor for a long time.

Then I went to work at Microsoft and had a computer to use.

Cody Dawg · Apr 8, 2006, 12:58 PM

Pintamino said

And I'm going to be going to college in two years! If I save the money now, it's going right into my college savings fund! I work just as hard as you do every day. No, scratch that, I work harder, and if Apple's giving college students a discount, I deserve one every bit as much as any other college student does.

I like your style.

Stradlater · Apr 8, 2006, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by pintamino

Yeah, I'm sure the close to $1000 you spend on a fraternity is ENTIRELY NESSECARY. Oh, yeah, and the $$$$$ for 'Social Activities', you really need that, too, if you're so strapped for cash.

Fraternities are hardly bad investments, depending on where you go. It wasn't something I was interested in, but for many it's a great set up for future networking and it allows the establishment of close friendships. And if you think socializing is unnecessary, please let me know how 4 years go for you in a dorm room...well, maybe you'll graduate earlier with all the work you get done.

And I'm going to be going to college in two years! If I save the money now, it's going right into my college savings fund! I work just as hard as you do every day. No, scratch that, I work harder, and if Apple's giving college students a discount, I deserve one every bit as much as any other college student does.

No. You don't. Unless you're paying for your room, board, and education, you really don't.

Cody Dawg · Apr 8, 2006, 01:03 PM

Maybe she is, you know?

A lot of college kids are living at home...AND ARE TAKING THE STUDENT DISCOUNT FROM APPLE.

Stradlater · Apr 8, 2006, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Maybe she is, you know?

A lot of college kids are living at home...AND ARE TAKING THE STUDENT DISCOUNT FROM APPLE.

A lot more are living on campus or in their own apartments. Regardless of living situation, tuition is still an issue, and if they're on scholarship or financial aid, the discount should of course still apply.

Oof.

Cody Dawg · Apr 8, 2006, 01:07 PM

You assume a lot, don't you?

Pintamino: If you want the student discount irrespective of your age private message me. I'll tell you who you can contact directly at Apple corporate to get it at your local store.

Stradlater · Apr 8, 2006, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

You assume a lot, don't you?

Care to elaborate?

Cody Dawg · Apr 8, 2006, 01:26 PM

No. You just want to argue. The point is that a lot of college students are living at home, mommy and daddy are paying for everything, and they get a discount just..."because" Apple gives it to them.

Conversely, there are a lot of hard-working high school kids (one look around my local grocery store at the kids bagging groceries - all of them high school kids - is an example) and they're doing what they can to get by and Apple doesn't give them a break.

And then you post some nonsense about investing $1000 in a fraternity...just because some losers can't make friends or get drinking buddies or find people to haze any other way.

Stradlater · Apr 8, 2006, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

No. You just want to argue.

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing, I'm arguing because you appear to be making far more assumptions than I am. Try to look at this entire situation realistically.

The point is that a lot of college students are living at home, mommy and daddy are paying for everything, and they get a discount just..."because" Apple gives it to them.

A lot of them live on campus or in apartments. And almost all of them have tuition. Far (FAR!) fewer high school students have to worry about either of these expenses.

And, even if mommy and daddy are paying for their child's secondary education, think about all those additional expenses they are covering—tuition, and perhaps room and board. Those parents could use the discount money for all the additional rest they're using (expenses that aren't issues for the parent of your regular high school student).

Conversely, there are a lot of hard-working high school kids (one look around my local grocery store at the kids bagging groceries - all of them high school kids - is an example) and they're doing what they can to get by and Apple doesn't give them a break.

Again: they don't have to worry about the same living expenses.

And then you post some nonsense about investing $1000 in a fraternity...just because some losers can't make friends or get drinking buddies or find people to haze any other way.

Another assumption. I was pretty clear that it depends on the fraternity in question—not all are the drunk hazefests you seem to imagine.

Cody Dawg · Apr 8, 2006, 01:46 PM

Stradlater:

I'm sorry I'm grouchy about this.

Just for the record, I think you're one of the better people here at MacNN and I like you.

On everything else I usually agree. I'm just cranky about this issue.

to you.

The Godfather · Apr 8, 2006, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

You assume a lot, don't you?

Pintamino: If you want the student discount irrespective of your age private message me. I'll tell you who you can contact directly at Apple corporate to get it at your local store.

And thus starts the Cody Underground Apple Discount Program for Deserving Students.

The Godfather · Apr 8, 2006, 02:14 PM

Why does he want a PowerBook? He should wait for the Intel MacBook Pro 12".

goMac · Apr 8, 2006, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by The Godfather

Why does he want a PowerBook? He should wait for the Intel MacBook Pro 12".

For that matter, why does he need a Powerbook? The iBook is the student laptop. If he really needs a laptop he could get the iBook now.

goMac · Apr 8, 2006, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

No. You just want to argue. The point is that a lot of college students are living at home, mommy and daddy are paying for everything, and they get a discount just..."because" Apple gives it to them.

Conversely, there are a lot of hard-working high school kids (one look around my local grocery store at the kids bagging groceries - all of them high school kids - is an example) and they're doing what they can to get by and Apple doesn't give them a break.

Do you not understand? It is not an Apple Hard Work Discount.

Stradlater · Apr 8, 2006, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Stradlater:

Likewise to what you said.

I understand that the issue's frustrating, but I can understand why Apple does things the way it does, economically (it's good business for them to do it the way they're doing it) and, to a lesser extent, deservingly (because things like tuition are a big deal). They can't offer discounts on a case-by-case basis, so people will just unfortunately have to deal with the fact that the less-responsible, paid-for college student may be eligible while the hard-working high school student is not. Oh well; life goes on, right?

gerardwaysgirl13 · Apr 8, 2006, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Stradlater

Fraternities are hardly bad investments, depending on where you go. It wasn't something I was interested in, but for many it's a great set up for future networking and it allows the establishment of close friendships. And if you think socializing is unnecessary, please let me know how 4 years go for you in a dorm room...well, maybe you'll graduate earlier with all the work you get done.

No. You don't. Unless you're paying for your room, board, and education, you really don't.

My boss was in a sorority. She doesn't stay in contact with A SINGLE ONE of her 'sisters' and she graduated 12 years ago. There are plenty of ways to socialize without spending a ton of money.

And yes, I do. No matter how much you want to bullshit about it, I do. Just because I'm not in college doesn't mean I don't need an education discount.

goMac · Apr 8, 2006, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by pintamino

My boss was in a sorority. She doesn't stay in contact with A SINGLE ONE of her 'sisters' and she graduated 12 years ago. There are plenty of ways to socialize without spending a ton of money.

And yes, I do. No matter how much you want to bullshit about it, I do. Just because I'm not in college doesn't mean I don't need an education discount.

You're choosing to use your money on other recreational tasks. College students don't even have recreational tasks.

This is like me whining how I spent all my money on my snowboard, and now I can't afford my Mac. I chose my snowboard over a Mac. That's life.

Chuckit · Apr 8, 2006, 03:25 PM

Once again, discounts are neither about need nor deserving. I know many awesome, hard-working people who nonetheless aren't students and can't afford a Mac — they don't get an Apple Poor Folk Discount. Apple offers discounts to certain demographics as it sees fit. That's all. You might argue that it's cruel to offer discounts at all and leave some people out like that, but quite frankly, I think that's a petty way to look at it.

Stradlater · Apr 8, 2006, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by pintamino

My boss was in a sorority. She doesn't stay in contact with A SINGLE ONE of her 'sisters' and she graduated 12 years ago.

Some investments fall through. Go Greek as you see fit. I know several people who've landed great jobs because of frat-related networking. Of course there will always be the flip side.

There are plenty of ways to socialize without spending a ton of money.

But money will be, inevitably, spent in the course of college socializing.

And yes, I do. No matter how much you want to bullshit about it, I do. Just because I'm not in college doesn't mean I don't need an education discount.

If you're not eligible, then you're not deserving by definition. The bottom line is what Chuckit more directly discusses: it's good business for Apple to offer discounts to college students but not for them to offer them to the demographic you fall under.

Chuckit · Apr 8, 2006, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by Stradlater

But money will be, inevitably, spent in the course of college socializing.

Whiskey don't come cheap!